Racial Slurs

[orlandoiam]

Hi, not that I think it would be immoral to learn them, but I'm not writing to ask what they are.

What I'm wondering is, do Thai people use them in the same way Americans/English use them?

For example, cracker or whitie, or paki, etc. etc. I was trying to explain that a term my boyfriend used in passing,( the infamous "N" word) certainly wouldn't be accepted by most of my friends. I tried to give him an example by asking what Thai people called certain races of people when they were insulting them. But either he didn't really understand where I was coming from, or perhaps Thais have a different way of insulting each other racially. Or perhaps they don't use racial insults, but this seems off too as alot of my students tend to go into fits of laughter when ever they call each other "kon laos."

Or perhaps, the laughter is the key. Perhaps there aren't any "serious" racial insults. So, what's the scoop?

[samran]

I don't think they are in wide spread usage as in other countries. Not that there isn't racisim in Thailand, on the contrary, there is a lot of it, but Thai's would probably not really say something to someones face. Things are tend to be more implied here...so when your friends each other 'khon lao' they are usually implying that one is backwards, slow, a bit of a bumpkin.

The common way to be degrogatory to someone is to pefix something with 'ey' in front of it. (though suprise suprise, when used in familar circles, it tends to be less offensive)

There is a term I've actually heard with US based Thai's (which I won't use here) which is probably the equivelent of the 'n' word which roughly translates as 'Darkie' and there are similar ones for Chinese and peoples of sub-continental/middle eastern origin.

[Thaipwriter]

There is a term .......... which roughly translates as 'Darkie'.

Go on tell us what it is!

[Rikker]

Are you referring to ไอ้ดำ? I seem to recall that being used to translate the n-word in the subtitles of American movies, but I also feel like I've seen it used to translate less offensive terms for black people in movie subtitles, too.

[katana]

For farang I think they use FARANG KHEE NOK.

[p_brownstone]

Are you referring to ไอ้ดำ? I seem to recall that being used to translate the n-word in the subtitles of American movies, but I also feel like I've seen it used to translate less offensive terms for black people in movie subtitles, too.

Basically - except among close friends or in "Ban Nork" areas - using the prefix "ai" (or "ee" for the female) is pretty offensive.

Thais tend to use "ai meudt" rather than "ai dam" - perhaps because they fear many people - even Farang - would understand "dam"?

"Jek" and "Khaek" are well known insults of course, and Southern Thais used to be denigrated as "ngoh" (rambutan) because of their thick and curly hair - although I have not heard the term for quite a while.

Patrick

[Neeranam]

"Jek" and "Khaek" are well known insults of course

Surely it depends on how one says it?

I'd say that "Jek" is now an insult where as a few years ago it wasn't. I've called a couple of Chinese this when they've said 'farang' in the insulting way they do on the BTS skytrain - a few Thais thought this was quite funny.

"kaek" IMO, is ok.

It depends how it is said.

I know Thais with "kaek", "jek" as nicknames.

[Johpa]

A bit off the main topic here, but I recently tried to humerously refer to myself to some Chinese as a "gwailo", the derogatory term commonly used by Chinese to refer to whites, and they really got upset at me! Go figure. Sort of like US blacks calling each other nigger but I am suppose to only refer to the "n-word". It is not easy these days being an equal opportunity offender.

[meadish_sweetball]

A lot of it is how you say it.

If you stare a Chinese or Middle Eastern/Indian person in the eye and slowly and deliberately say 'jek' or 'khaek', it would be offensive. If it is obvious you are playing, most people would be ready to laugh or forgive, I think.

Exactly 'how' offensive they are...? I cannot say, but I guess it depends on the person.

I am told by my Thai friends not to use 'jek' at any rate, and they never use it among themselves. 'Khaek' is pretty common though, and there is often some kind of racial/cultural prejudice along with it. Then again 'ahaan khaek' is not necessarily derogatory as I hear it.

As for 'farang khee nok' I have never heard it used about a farang who does not fit the description - which, as far as I understand it, is a poorly dressed caucasian who is lacking in manners.

[samran]

Are you referring to ไอ้ดำ? I seem to recall that being used to translate the n-word in the subtitles of American movies, but I also feel like I've seen it used to translate less offensive terms for black people in movie subtitles, too.

Thais tend to use "ai meudt"

Thats the one I've heard used on a bad way....

[Rikker]

As for 'farang khee nok' I have never heard it used about a farang who does not fit the description - which, as far as I understand it, is a poorly dressed caucasian who is lacking in manners.

I've heard this used derogatorily toward my person, by someone who must have just disliked white people. I was wearing a shirt and tie when it was used, and I don't recall doing anything offensive other than being in possession of white skin. But I'd agree with you generally that it's used with folks who fit the bill--and Thais who use it more generally (as mentioned above) are probably stereotyping. As Thais have explained the meaning to me, besides being a poorly dressed caucasion who lacks manners, it also carries the connotation of being a frequenter of compensated companionship establishments. (How do you like that euphemism? )

[KhunMarco]

It happened to me more than once in Samui. You know those girls who ask you where are you from ? and they have a form to fill with your info, and you are supposed to win a prize or something like that...

Well everytime I told them I'm Italian the "khee nok" phrase was used and they walked away disgusted

I promptly greeted them with a "fark off, bit*h " arf arf.

But having seen with my eyes the "quality" of the Italian tourist in Samui I can't really blame them.

[bina]

'kaek' for arab is used here in israel by the thai workers and always used with a lifted lip sneer (the workers intensly dislike arabs because as work taskmaskers ('rais' or 'overseer bossman') they are disgusting and abusive even more so then the moshav/kibbutz israeli big boss, and the political situation doesnt help, and 'they smell' -- not my words here,the thais' descriptions) .... and the thai dont like to hear the language either.... they're more predjudiced then i am!! of course the term 'kaek' is for the arab workers that 'look' arabic' and work manually or are the bosses of manual labourers, probably not used for a 'european' type arab (most thai here dont recognize differences among faces etc w/o the clothing to differentiate : keffiya, women wearing head coverings etc)

btw, have heard thai referring to 'cheap jews' also , they not totally understanding that most israelis are jewish!!!....

[Johpa]

'kaek' for arab is used here in israel by the thai workers and always used with a lifted lip sneer (the workers intensly dislike arabs because as work taskmaskers ('rais' or 'overseer bossman') they are disgusting and abusive even more so then the moshav/kibbutz israeli big boss, and the political situation doesnt help, and 'they smell' -- not my words here,the thais' descriptions) .... and the thai dont like to hear the language either.... they're more predjudiced then i am!!.....

btw, have heard thai referring to 'cheap jews' also , they not totally understanding that most israelis are jewish!!!....

Looks like we need to work on your prejudices a bit here. Back when I lived in Israel, it was the city Israelis who always talked about being able to smell an Arab from a distance and were filled with racial prejudice. And this was decades ago, before the current hatred had spread across the land. I took offense as I had good friends whom I held with great respect who were Arab. Once I almost ended up in jail, the "kelly", for striking a soldier who was verbally abusing an old Arab man.

But I don't remember any specific derogatory slang terms for Arabs, I guess "Arab" carried its own negative connotation to some, but there sure were lots of pejorative terms used by Israelis to refer to the various geographical sub-sets of those of the Jewish persuasion whose geographical origin differed from the land where their most recent ancestors originated. Perhaps inter-marriage has weakened the prejudices of the older generations within the tribe. : )

[killpog]

As for 'farang khee nok' I have never heard it used about a farang who does not fit the description - which, as far as I understand it, is a poorly dressed caucasian who is lacking in manners.

I've heard this used derogatorily toward my person, by someone who must have just disliked white people. I was wearing a shirt and tie when it was used, and I don't recall doing anything offensive other than being in possession of white skin. But I'd agree with you generally that it's used with folks who fit the bill--and Thais who use it more generally (as mentioned above) are probably stereotyping. As Thais have explained the meaning to me, besides being a poorly dressed caucasion who lacks manners, it also carries the connotation of being a frequenter of compensated companionship establishments. (How do you like that euphemism? )

Khee Nok - literally, bird crap - has a closer correlation to the US 'bullsh*t' or Brit '<deleted>' in common usage - so it applies more to percieved bad manners, or behavior. Quite like an instance where we would say 'Thai bullsh*t', for example...

[Rikker]

Khee Nok - literally, bird crap - has a closer correlation to the US 'bullsh*t' or Brit '<deleted>' in common usage - so it applies more to percieved bad manners, or behavior. Quite like an instance where we would say 'Thai bullsh*t', for example...

I've never heard ขี้นก used in this way, and I checked with the wife (a Bangkok native), she's never heard it either. So it could be a usage specific to Thais you're around frequently, but I'm not so sure I'd agree that it's in common usage.

For one thing, gramattically speaking this interpretation doesn't make sense to me with reference to the phrase ฝรั่งขี้นก farang.khii.nok. In the phrase "Thai bullsh*t', the word 'Thai' is modifying the noun 'bullsh*t', making it a more specific type of BS--that of a Thai.

But unlike English, Thai modifiers follow the noun. In the phrase ฝรั่งขี้นก, the ขี้นก part modifies ฝรั่ง. Thus, it's a more specific type of farang--khii.nok variety. As it turns out, ฝรั่งขี้นก is a specific variety of guava, with red flesh inside. The original meaning of this term is a Thai who acts like a Westerner, and then apparently came to mean a Thai who has bad manners like a Westerner. Presumably the comparison comes because they try to look like a Westerner, but beneath the surface they're not (as with the red/white guava flesh). That's my best guess on logic behind the original meaning. This sense is recorded in several dictionaries I have, but sometimes labeled as being archaic.

My opinion on the origin of the phrase "farang.khii.nok" with reference to Westerners is that the meaning transferred from referring to Thais with bad manners, back to referring to Westerners with bad manners, and I think the connotations probably vary among different groups.

Now back to killpog's post. If, as killpog says, ขี้นก has been generalized so that it is used to characterize things other than ฝรั่ง now, then it's most certainly used as a modifier. I would expect to see phrases such คนขี้นก, แต่งตัวขี้นก, etc. To reuse killpog's example, a phrase like "Thai bullsh*t" would be something like ขี้นกแบบไทยๆ, if it were used a noun, so you can see the word order is reversed from its use as a modifier. Not that it's impossible, though.

Regardless, I have yet to come across ขี้นก used with any meaning similar to what killpog says (besides in the phrase ขี้นก). Although it seems like quite a logical semantic shift, especially if under influence from the English word "bullsh*t". Just not convinced it's actually happened on a widespread basis. Can someone provide further evidence/commentary?

Edited June 7, 2006 by Rikker

[p_brownstone]

I would agree with Rikker - I have never heard ขี้นก used in any context where it could be translated as "Bulls*it" - although I have heard a few westernised Thais who coin the phrase "Khee Kwai" as an almost literal translation of the English word and use it in similar situations / context.

Also of course ขี้ is not just a Noun, it's an Adverb too, meaning "likes" or "has a tendency to" - I imagine it could be used in that sense, coupled with various Verbs, to approximate "Bulls*it" but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head - perhaps killpog misheard?

Patrick

Edited June 8, 2006 by p_brownstone

[Totster]

I thought Kii Nok is a derogatory term used to say that someone has no money..

I.e Farang kii nok - Poor (as in no wealth) farang

totster

Edited June 8, 2006 by Totster

[Rikker]

There's probably something to that--could be diverging meanings. I asked the Mrs. specifically what type of ฝรั่ง is a ฝรั่งขี้นก to her, and she said the backpacker type that tend to frequent ข้าวสาร road, which could easily be interpreted as meaning they are poor, since many of those are the "see the world on 50 cents a day" type.

[Plus]

I heard a similar explanation of "farang kii nok" vs. "farang salee" - varieties of guava. When transferred to foreigners it makes sense, too. Perhaps "white trash" is an English equivalent. For Thais it's a farang who doesn't live to their expectations of a generic farang.

[bina]

johpa,

the word 'kaek' here is always always used derogatorily by the thai labourers when talking about arabs or anyone 'looking' arab; and 'yu kii nok' about the bosses that dont pay all the wages.... always used in a rude tone with slight sneer/smile ; when talking about politics or just discussing, they will use the proper words to describe someone.... khon arab , khon yu, etc.....

i'm not discussing my own personal predjuces here

[Johpa]

I thought Kii Nok is a derogatory term used to say that someone has no money..

I.e Farang kii nok - Poor (as in no wealth) farang

totster

I have certainly heard the term use to describe a Farang who did not part with their money when that was the wished for result by the Thai side of the social interaction. So I think it tends to be used more often as a derogatotry term for a Farang unwilling to part with their money.

I have never heard the term khii nok used to desribe a Thai who was poor.

[Rikker]

the word 'kaek' here is always always used derogatorily by the thai labourers when talking about arabs or anyone 'looking' arab; and 'yu kii nok' about the bosses that dont pay all the wages.... always used in a rude tone with slight sneer/smile ; when talking about politics or just discussing, they will use the proper words to describe someone.... khon arab , khon yu, etc.....

Are you sure you aren't mishearing the word ขี้งก as ขี้นก? ขี้งก is a common slang word for stingy. And yes, I've heard the phrase ขี้งก applied to farangs, Thais, everyone. It fits pretty well with some American negative stereotypes of Jews, too.

That said, it's *possible* that it could be a subtle rhyming slang to disguise the word งก, then, but to fit the pattern there should be a word starting with ง mixed in there somewhere, so I kind of think not.

Other slang terms used to disguise insults/rude words (I'll throw these in for fun):

สอใส่เกือก = เสือก (meddle, butt in where not wanted)

11ร.ด.(pronounced สิบเอ็ดรอดอ) = แรด (flirty, easy)

สตรอเบอร์รี่ = ตอแหล (insincere, fake)

ดัชชี่ = ดัดจริต (insincere, fake)

Even in the newspapers, you see columnists write "กวน teen" instead of กวนตีน, because of its perceived rudeness.

Edited June 8, 2006 by Rikker

[Johpa]

Are you sure you aren't mishearing the word ขี้งก as ขี้นก? ขี้งก is a common slang word for stingy. And yes, I've heard the phrase ขี้งก applied to farangs, Thais, everyone. It fits pretty well with some American negative stereotypes of Jews, too.

American and European stereotypes of Jews are well known in the west, as are the same stereotypes of Scots and countless "others". That being said, apart from workers in Israel, you would be hard pressed to find Thai laborers, and few enough educated Thais, who know what a Jew is. And even fewer associate Jews with Israelis.

[Neeranam]

I thought Kii Nok is a derogatory term used to say that someone has no money..

I.e Farang kii nok - Poor (as in no wealth) farang

totster

Standing at the urinal in bamrungrad hospital with a shirt and tie on(expensive ones too, well ironed), a couple of Thais came in and either side of me one said "farang kee nok".

I asked him to repeat himself and of course was shocked and denied saying it. If it wasn't for the fact that my wife was giving birth, I would have made a bigger scene about it.

Ignoring the nasty comments is of course the best thing to do, isn't it?

[Rikker]

American and European stereotypes of Jews are well known in the west, as are the same stereotypes of Scots and countless "others". That being said, apart from workers in Israel, you would be hard pressed to find Thai laborers, and few enough educated Thais, who know what a Jew is. And even fewer associate Jews with Israelis.

You're right about that. From bina's comments, though, obviously the Thais in Israel are using the term ยิว. I don't (yet) believe that it's ยิวขี้นก he's actually hearing, though. I'll bet it's ยิวขี้งก.

And now that I've made this connection, I'll bet quite a few of the people hearing ฝรั่งขี้งก are hearing it as ฝรั่งขี้นก. Both terms exist, but I think we need to be careful to separate the two. ขี้งก applies generally, not just to farangs. ขี้นก is not used generally, and (I believe) is fixed in the phrase ฝรั่งขี้นก.

[sabaijai]

I've heard several Thais who work in tourism in northern Thailand and in the Gulf of Thailand islands refer to Israelis as maeng yaw/แมงยอ, literally 'J-bugs', or more clinically spelt out, 'jewish insects'. As far as I can tell it's never intended as anything but pejorative, unfortunately.

[yoot]

ยิว for Thai old fashionable saying means selfish or stingy. But nowadays it's rarely in use.

If you can read Thai you can read why this word is used by the way from this web page ;

http://www.royin.go.th/th/knowledge/detail.php?ID=209

In brief, it's from a Jewish character in a Thai literature who is a selfish and stingy merchant.

[Johpa]

ยิว for Thai old fashionable saying means selfish or stingy. But nowadays it's rarely in use.

If you can read Thai you can read why this word is used by the way from this web page ;

http://www.royin.go.th/th/knowledge/detail.php?ID=209

In brief, it's from a Jewish character in a Thai literature who is a selfish and stingy merchant.

There is a better known historical reason as to why the word yew (ยิว), or sometimes jiew (as in Chavalit being nicknamed the "Big Jiew") is associated with the western negative stereotype of Jews. This arises from a very high ranking member of Thai society stating many decades ago, when racial tensions in Bangkok were rather high, that the Chinese were the Jews of Thailand. This statement was made by an educated person and the word was kept in usage despite the fact that the vast majority of Thais, including the highly educated, had no inkling as to what a Jew was. One must remember that decades ago, the very small educated elite of Siam (we are talking pre-Thailand days) were often educated by a mix of western colonials and missionaries, groups that were often rather anti-Semitic in nature. So I doubt that even this very highly placed individual had a clue as to who the Jews are when he made this statement but was simply parroting his western mentors.

As I have noted, most Thais are familiar with the word but have no clue as to its reference and are often bemused, if not bewildered, by the fact that Israelis are almost always of the Jewish persuasion and not of the Christian persuasion and that the word may have to do with religion and not personality. That is not to say that Thais have a positive image of young budget traveling Israelis. In the past I have seen more than one guesthouse owner preferring to avoid such customers, but said guesthouse owner had no clue to the connection between Judaism and Israel. At my own guesthouse of yesteryear, it was the French and Italians I discouraged.

[Rikker]

I've even heard one Thai blame the whole ฟองสบู่แตก recession on some Jewish guy doing underhanded trading in Thailand... wish I could remember the name of the guy he told me was responsible. Not because I believe it necessarily, but because I'd like to see what else I could find.