Friend hit with overstay fee due to immigration mistake

[Sortapundit]

I'm hoping someone can offer a little advice/clarification on a problem my girlfriend's sister is experiencing with her non-imm B visa.

I'm translating this from xyz, so any mistakes are probably mine.

As far as I can understand the girl, who has worked in BKK for four years, has a one year visa that entitles her to a single exit/re-entry and is valid until August of this year. Sometime late last year she accompanied her boyfriend on his visa run to the Cambodian border, where she crossed out of Thailand and stamped straight back in without entering Cambodia. At the checkpoint the immigration officer told her that since she'd only popped into no man's land and hadn't entered Cambodia it wouldn't be counted as an official exit/re-entry. Exactly what this means I don't know, but I'm told the visa itself wasn't marked to indicate that her single exit had been used up. I don't know how a re-entry stamp usually looks on a non-imm B visa, but she tells me that her previous visas always clearly stated when her re-entry allowance had been used.

Fast forward to December when the girl flew to Paris to spend Christmas with us, flying back to BKK in the first week of January. At Suvarnabhumi she was stamped back in on her non-imm B visa without incident, with the entry stamp dated up to the end of August this year (the expiration date of the visa).

Fast forward again to this week when she went for her 90 day check-in and was informed that she had overstayed her visa, and would have to pay a 20,000 baht penalty and head to Laos to get a new one.

The obvious conclusion to draw from this story is that the exit/re-entry at the Cambodian border was very much recorded as a genuine exit, and the immigration officer was just telling her porkies for whatever reason. On the face of it it seems cut and dried. She made two exits when she was only entitled to one, and she deserves the fine.

Where I get confused is at the point when she was stamped back into Thailand at Survanabhumi in January. The immigration officer made no mention of any issues and stamped her in without a problem, and according to her stamp she was legal until August. As far as she knew - and as far as she could know, without hacking into the Thai immigration database to check for herself - she was perfectly legal. She'd been assured she was operating within the constraints of her visa both at the Cambodian border and at the airport.

If everything had worked as it should, and if her Cambodia exit counted as a full exit, then the moment she left Thailand for Paris in December her visa would have been voided. When she tried to re-enter using that visa on her return from Paris she would have been refused, and instead given a 30-day tourist stamp. Clearly that isn't what happened, and to my mind it seems like a failure on the part of immigration rather than the girl carrying the passport. If I was in her shoes I'd be screaming bloody murder if I was handed a 20,000 baht fine when there was absolutely nothing I could have done to discover there was a problem.

So, here's my question: is there anything she can do, either above or beneath the table, to cancel or reduce this fine? I'm guessing there's no getting around the need to travel to Laos to obtain a fresh visa as this one has presumably already been flagged as invalid, but it would be nice if she could escape the hefty fee for somebody else's foul up.

Thanks for any advice you can offer

[wym]

Well first of all I sure hope she's given her permission for this posting, since there can't be too many XXX working at XXX, totally irrelevant violation of her privacy if this is all genuine.

And surely this is something her employer should be taking care of for her, every job I've worked at in Thailand I had nothing to do with any part of the process other than accompanying the company rep to show my face to Immigration once or twice a year and sign the papers.

In my independent dealings with them I've found them to be very friendly and reasonable people, but then I always dress and act appropriately. If this is all truly as you say I imagine they'll be able to find a decent solution.

But definitely best to go down with the XXX HR person whose job it is to know and get along with all these guys personally, and any backhanders that may be required are routine and reasonably priced, written off as a business expense.

[Seastallion]

I'm no expert in this subject, but it sounds to me like she was just unlucky and got an over-zealous, overly officious bureaucrat who has made the mistake and thinks 20000 is either "doing his job" or will be the pre-cursor to an expected offer of a back-hander. If so, simply go to a different office.

[Satcommlee]

Sounds like a immigration oversight..

But if she had a one year visa without a re-entry permit, why did she go to Cambodia???

So in theory (without re-entry permit), her 1 year extension ended when she left the Thai border..

Despite what stamp they may have mistakenly put on her passport when she done the U-turn in no-mans land, it was an error that was later corrected within the law by simply acknowledging that she had left Thailand without a re-entry permit.

Did she go Gambling with her Thai mates?

Edited March 30, 2014 by Satcommlee

[Sortapundit]

Good point, wym. I don't see an edit button on my post, but if an admin is around and wouldn't mind deleting the name of the hospital it'd be much appreciated. This was posted at her request, but I guess the identifying details are unnecessary.

She hasn't had much luck getting her employer to assist her so far, but she's hoping someone might decide to help out this week.

[Sortapundit]

But if she had a one year visa without a re-entry permit, why did she go to Cambodia???

So in theory (without re-entry permit), her 1 year extension ended when she left the Thai border..

She had a single re-entry permit (from what I understand), so when she re-entered at the Cambodian border and was assured it wouldn't be counted as a genuine re-entry she assumed she still had one entry remaining.

[Scottythai]

Crappy to hear for sure. One question being as she is a Doctor would it not be easier to just have an immigration lawyer do all of this for her? The fee is nominal and it's amazing how stamps to places I have never been can show up in my passport when I send it off for the day. Might be something she would like to look into

[Crossy]

Good point, wym. I don't see an edit button on my post, but if an admin is around and wouldn't mind deleting the name of the hospital it'd be much appreciated. This was posted at her request, but I guess the identifying details are unnecessary.

She hasn't had much luck getting her employer to assist her so far, but she's hoping someone might decide to help out this week.

I've edited a couple of posts that may point to the identity of the person.

In future if you see such a problem, please just hit the report button, don't wait for a member of staff to read the thread.

BTW, the edit button is only available for a short time, 20 minutes or so IIRC.

Moving to the visas forum for better directed advice.

[JLCrab]

Seems to me the crux here is for what reason did she exit Thailand and not officially enter Cambodia before re-entering Thailand -- was it some honest mistake or what she deliberately playing games with the system? From that point all the rest is downstream.

[Maestro]

At this point, already having paid the summary fine of 20,000 Baht, she has no option to claim it back. At the time she was requested to pay the fine she could have refused and have the case examined and judged in court but this would most likely have involved a day or two at the Immigration Detention Centre until the court hearing. At best, the court would have found her not guilty of any violation, at worst she would have been found guilty but fined considerably less than 20,000 Baht.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiestyFarang]

This is not a foul up and asking about illegal activities (under the table) is not appropriate. I have never heard of such a stupid thing on a Visa Run to go all the way to Cambodia and then not enter. Rules are rules and if she followed what is expected that you enter another country then she would not have to pay 20,000. Some foreigners try and be clever, lazy this is what happens. Does it say on Visa Run's entering no man's land is ok, of course not. What did she think the Visa Rules are for. Would she do the same in Europe. People like this are stupid and deserve large fines. In any case why would you use up a single entry Visa on something like this she could have just waited on the Thai side of the border. Sounds to me there is more to this story than what is being told here. Follow the rules and then things go smoothly.

Edited March 31, 2014 by FiestyFarang
removed quote done in error instead of edit

[IMA_FARANG]

Did she have a 60 day tourist or a 90 day Non O SINGLE ENTRY visa originally?

Because Single Entry means exactly that ... one entry when you enter Thailand.

The first time is your single entry.

A Thai may be able to enter a neighboring country for a day trip or even a short visit..... but that is not true for non Thais.

If she came into Thailand originally on a single entry visa .... here first entry into Thailand was that single entry.

When she left Thailand, and was stamped out of Thailand, her single entry visa ended ..... one entry and one exit.

If she got that exit stamp on leaving Thailand..... that ended her single entry visa.

Not entering another country wouldn't count.

When that exit stamp was stamped in her passport as she left Thailand it was treated as a single exit to go with that single entry.

I'm surprised she was not questioned about reentering without a neighboring country entry stamp.

Edited March 31, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[KREMBOMOCA]

I think becuase you are just a third party it's hard to know the true but for my opinion when she cross the border in Cambodia they immigration use her single entry and she still hed her visa.but when she leave thailand anf fly to Paris and come back she get only 30 day stay and she not check so that means thet she overstay 60 day this what I think realy happen because usually the immigration office not make mistakes

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MeowBundit]

1 - CHECK stamp in passport officer put in. Do not need to "think", just CHECK 3 times.

2 - if anything incorrect, DO correction at border or at Immigration (not all time can be corrected at border)

3 - When she pays, she is accept she's guilty in violation of law.

Stories like this will be happen endlessly. I understand you want to help her, but I sure from now she will not forget this 20k fine and will check all stamps twice.

And this unclear reason to Cambodia trip w/o entering country.

[dighambara]

Well first of all I sure hope she's given her permission for this posting, since there can't be too many XXX working at XXX, totally irrelevant violation of her privacy if this is all genuine.

And surely this is something her employer should be taking care of for her, every job I've worked at in Thailand I had nothing to do with any part of the process other than accompanying the company rep to show my face to Immigration once or twice a year and sign the papers.

In my independent dealings with them I've found them to be very friendly and reasonable people, but then I always dress and act appropriately. If this is all truly as you say I imagine they'll be able to find a decent solution.

But definitely best to go down with the XXX HR person whose job it is to know and get along with all these guys personally, and any backhanders that may be required are routine and reasonably priced, written off as a business expense.

"dress and act appropriately|....?????

SHould we presume you normally run around naked..?? Or in underwear like most tourists..??

As for Immigration, every visit is different - every judgement is different. I have always considered the basic inaccuracies of the Thai language are responsible - every officer interprets the law differently.

[Spoonman]

the "90 day check in" would suggest the person is on a permission to stay extension and not an actual visa.