American-No Bank Account, No Visa Catch 22. Help please.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

OP, this is first report here of Thai banks refusing to open accounts based on American nationality. Very troubling! Not only to people like the OP but Americans here with existing accounts. Yes, this is the year 2014 where this starts to really hit the fan. I still don't know where it is going and how many Americans are going to be shaken out of Thailand because of it (and many other countries as well). To the OP, I hope you got bad info from these banks and it is still possible for you to get an account here somewhere. Please keep trying.

To the people who have said there isn't going to be any impact from these weird new American laws, I guess it would be crass to say I told you so. Wish this is going to be nothing, but trust me, this isn't nothing. It's starting.

I too was troubled by the OP's report.

I went to Bangkok bank and was told they don't take Americans and I stopped at a couple other banks while walking around and told no Americans.

It's nothing new for farangs in general to be denied new bank accounts in Thailand. That happens all the time, and has for years. But the reason is usually that the applicant doesn't possess a Thai work permit, which is something a lot of the Thai banks demand, even though it's not legally required, and something those on retirement status legally are not supposed to have. But Bangkok Bank, for example, on its website specifically says that foreigners can open accounts with them without a work permit.

However, in this case, the OP's report specifically says that the bank staff who denied him said they did so because he was/is an American. That's a new one on me, and if the OP's account is correct, could well be a manifestation of the fallout from the whole U.S. FATCA requirements.

As I mentioned in another thread on the FATCA issue, Standard Chartered recently mailed letters to their American account holders in Thailand asking us to sign updated acccount agreements and provide a variety of info, including our U.S. SS numbers. In talking with the SC bank staff at that time a couple months ago, they indicated it shouldn't be any problem for existing accountholders who provided the required info. And I haven't heard anything further from them in the wake of having provided the requested info.

But they did say it could be more difficult, and more information required, for Americans wanting to open new accounts with SC. However, they did NOT say that SC was ceasing to open new accounts for Americans. So perhaps the OP or anyone else with similar grief can try Standard Chartered's main HQ branch near Chong Nonsi BTS or their CentralWorld mall branch.

Edited April 8, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[55Jay]

I will be a "reportable" should Thailand get on board with this. I won't mind if it's passive - bank queries existing data and reports out as/if appropriate. I, like many others, self-report every year as it is.

Would, however, be a bit more concerned if I have to provide my SSN on an IRS form (as TGJohn indicated above) and hand it back to a Thai bank clerk for handing, entry into their IT systems and storage (both hard and soft copy).

Will they handle this highly sensitive number IAW US Government standards - Privacy Act/sensitive personal data? I read through the US/Canada IGA yesterday and noted that third parties may be employed to collect/report data.

Saying this while acknowledging the failure of the US Gov and its employees on a number of occasions (lost laptops, etc).

[The Usual Suspect]

Strange.................. I'm American and I walked into a Kasikorn Bank branch in BKK and opened my first Thai account just like I was in the states. Not a single problem and the officer spoke relatively good English. I'm with Krungthai Bank now and I'm very satisfied with them. We're going through them for our house mortgage.

Can you do an ACH transfer in the U.S. to your accounts at Kasikorn or Krungthai?

Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly it was a big hassle. I have been using Paypal with great success. I transfer 47,000 thb every month for $7.00 usd.

[Jingthing]

It is impossible to do an ACH transfer from the U.S. to any Thai bank EXCEPT Bangkok Bank (as you send it to Bangkok Bank New York which then flows into your ACTUAL Thailand Bangkok Bank account). An ACH transfer is ONLY for domestic transfers. No Thai bank except Bangkok Bank supports this kind of "domestic" transfer. Cheers.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And the cost element of this cost/benefit analysis is minute -- identify existing account holders with US indicia (mainly, having a US passport when account was opened). And if so, did his accounts total over $50,000 Dec 31, 2013? Yes? Send him a W-9 to fill out (but, not many of these, I'm sure). New applicant, are you a Yank? No? Have a nice day (Of course, a little more involved than this: Thai passport, but born in the USA -- follow-up by the bank is required, which does add cost. But, how many of these could be expected.)

Jim, FWIW, as I've mentioned before in the other thread, I got the W-9 request letter from Standard Chartered asking for my Social Security #.

And I've never had anywhere close to $50K in my SC account at any time, period.

SC certainly knows that. But that clearly didn't stop them from sending me an American account holder letter and demanding that I provide my SSN for their FATCA reporting purposes.

In reading through my various articles on FATCA, there's two different and separate reporting requirements: one for the foreign financial institutions, and a separate one for U.S. taxpayers with reportable foreign interests.

Re the FATCA reporting by foreign financial institutions, I've got a couple of different articles saying that the FATCA reporting requirement for foreign banks would cover ALL American account holders, regardless of their account balance. But I've also seen your posts talking about the foreign banks only having to report U.S. accountholders with individual accounts exceeding $50,000. I'm not sure which version is correct.

As for FATCA reporting by U.S. citizens via their annual federal tax returns via IRS Form 8938, the IRS website says reporting is required for unmarried taxpayers living in the U.S. when the AGGREGATE value of their reportable foreign holdings is more than $50K on the last day of the tax year or more than $75K at any time during the tax year.

However, the FATCA reporting threshholds are different for Americans living abroad on a full-time basis. In that case, the AGGREGATE reporting threshholds for single filers living abroad are exceeding $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or exceeding $300,000 at any time during the day year. The comparable threshholds for married filers living abroad are exceeding $400,000 and $600,000, respectively.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Do-I-need-to-file-Form-8938,-%E2%80%9CStatement-of-Specified-Foreign-Financial-Assets%E2%80%9D%3F

Dated December 2013

Of course, separate from the whole FATCA endeavor, American's AGGREGATE foreign deposits (not per account) exceeding $10,000 would need to be reported annually to the Treasury Dept. by that American taxpayer under the separate FBAR requirements.

Did I hopefully get most or all of this correct???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly it was a big hassle. I have been using Paypal with great success. I transfer 47,000 thb every month for $7.00 usd.

Paypal is not a particular economical way of sending funds from the U.S. to Thailand, despite what people continue to think and post.

Paypal Fees for sending funds from the U.S. to abroad in the same currency:

Outside the US 0.5% to 2% fee when fully funded with your bank account or PayPal balance,

or 3.4% to 3.9% if paying with a credit or debit card

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

But when you want to send funds where Paypal handles the foreign currency exchange:

Multiple currency transactions Exchange rate includes a 2.5% fee**

** If your transaction involves a currency conversion, it will be completed at a retail foreign exchange rate quoted to PayPal by an international financial institution, which is adjusted twice daily based on market conditions. This exchange rate includes a 2.5% fee above the wholesale exchange rate at which PayPal obtains foreign currency, and the fee is retained by PayPal. The specific exchange rate that applies to your multiple currency transaction will be displayed at the time of the transaction.

https://www.paypal.com/mh/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside

[Langsuan Man]

How in the world did one member having trouble getting a Thai bank account trigger a six page, 155 post thread dealing with US bank laws ?

Especially since the only things we know for sure is that he is from the US, has no visa, and this occurred in Bangkok. Certainly not enough evidence to conjecture that suddenly all Thai banks are refusing to open accounts for US passport holders !

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

It's because he clearly said the reason for the denials was his American nationality.

Duh.

Nobody has said that all Thai banks are now refusing all new American accounts.

It's just that based on international news of major changes in enforcement from the U.S. forcing all foreign banks to do extra stuff for American accounts and that sometimes meaning refusal of American business, that we are now on ALERT now for DETAILS about how that is going to manifest itself in Thailand.

This topic is as legitimate as they come. This thread and others are going to be very relevant to Americans in Thailand for as long as it takes for us to better understand what's going to happen here in regard to this new enforcement.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[kimbathewhitelion]

The US Congress managed this rather quickly, obvious another Obama Executive Order pushed it thru.

Saw a couple or so years back, a TV interview with a Democrat Senator who was complaining about the Founder of Facebook (I believe) taking all his money & moving to Singapore, that wherever his money be, he should still have to pay taxes (interest). The Senator also noted, he (Facebook founder) made his money in America, thus should pay for that citizenship (as if the US Gov was responsible for his success)...forgot the rest & sure in all media, it's been deleted as anything negative against the current Administration is removed even from the Internet within a day. The Senator continued by stating they we're working on a Bill to track overseas Bank Accounts (...thus tax them & continue the overinflated garbage Spending of the Gov).

I'm an American & will stand by all values but living here is only due to my Government & it's Policies to treat their citizens like cattle.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Jingthing]

I doubt the Thai banks which are in the process of dealing with these changes are interested in the slightest about the internal American political aspects that brought about these bothersome regulations in the first place!

[kimbathewhitelion]

Yeah...I know. But didn't know about the new US law until mentioned here. The TV interview just came to mind, found the "Tie-in" interesting, as where things are going & the question of what will be next. Can only guess another Bill, that if an American dies outside the country, his Estate will still be taxed.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Pib]

Strange.................. I'm American and I walked into a Kasikorn Bank branch in BKK and opened my first Thai account just like I was in the states. Not a single problem and the officer spoke relatively good English. I'm with Krungthai Bank now and I'm very satisfied with them. We're going through them for our house mortgage.

Can you do an ACH transfer in the U.S. to your accounts at Kasikorn or Krungthai?

Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly it was a big hassle. I have been using Paypal with great success. I transfer 47,000 thb every month for $7.00 usd.

I expect the $7 fee you are referring to is the 0.5% direct fee for the type of transfer you are doing for around $1500/Bt47,000 every month (a fee that can actually range from 0.5 to 2% depending on the specifics of the transfer)...0.5% comes pretty close to the $7 you mentioned. But that's not all your are paying for the transfer...there is also an indirect fee due to the low PayPal exchange rate which is usually around 2.0 to 2.5% lower for USD to baht conversion than the Thai Bank TT Buying Rate.

I just took a look at the PayPal exchange rate calculator and right now (8 April, 4:38pm Thailand time) their exchange rate is 31.6052 baht/USD...the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate is 32.26. Or said another way the PayPal exchange rate is 2% lower. So, your total PayPal direct and indirect fees are amounting to approx 2.5% or more. PayPal is one of the more costly ways to do international transfers due to their low exchange rate...and it's PayPal that accomplishes the exchange...not the receiving Thai bank. And I can't say for sure, I expect there could also be a Thai currency receipt/conversion fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) fee applied since the fee is applied for incoming funds (baht or foreign currency) via foreign electronic means...that could be the $7 fee you are referring to...but if it's coming from a Thai PayPal account that fee shouldn't apply.

But regardless of what "direct" fees may be seen in the transfer, it's PayPal's low exchange rate that take a BIG bite out of your lunch...call it an indirect or hidden fee if you like.

[ubonjoe]

I think the OP has gotten several answers about getting his bank account opened.

Since this topic continues to go off topic it is now closed. If anybody wants more info about FBAR or FACTA they can find it on the business forum.

Topic