How dare you....

[robblok]

My views, sometimes Jsixpacks way will work and I employ it too. Western way isnt always right its a different country. I live outside of the tourist area's so its different here. Anyway sometimes i get angry seems to work too. It kinda depends on the situation.

I called if the batteries in my UPS were changed... sure they were. So I went there to pick it up. Once i was there.. sorry its not done (without looking). I told the guy that i was called and traveled far to go to shop so I was found it bad service. (all in Thai of course). I told him that I wanted to speak with the one that told me it was done. All of a sudden the guy looked again and magically the UPS appeared.

Being nice works.. sometimes being persistent and not nice works too, in general I go for being nice. In the end they are the ones that have something you want and you can be in your right but they hold the right cards not you. So i rather swallow some pride and get it done as to make a scene and get nothing done.

But every situation is different but speaking at least a bit of the language makes things easier.

I might not be perfect at Thai (and i realize it) but by practicing i get better. To assume that they have to speak English is crazy. Jsixpack and others are right those that can speak good English won't do simple work they can make much better money elsewhere. So don't expect them there. Just learn the language a bit.

Great post. Re: getting angry, I always find it counterproductive. Asians including Thais find that a bit childish, and also Thais esp. may take it as a challenge so that they then make SURE not to make you happy. Thais are also very sensitive to what they perceive as insults. Perfect excuses not to give you a refund, for example--which are hard enough to get in the best of circumstances.

Staying calm but being forceful is preferable, I think.

When I am angry I am not going to shout or act like a small child, I am then forceful and tell them what the problem is and voice my complaints. Of course that does not always work, but sometimes you know there is no resolution possible and then this is an option.

Being nice is preferable if you need to get something done even though your not happy at all. If possible you can take your service somewhere else but don't expect the people to loose any sleep over it. I would not do it if it inconveniences me too much. I rather then swallow my pride get stuff done then to make it hard on me too.

[Eliot Rosewater]

I think some here may be aggrandizing Thai manners. In 10 years of visiting and living here, I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a Thai say to a counter person sawat dee krap or cop khun krap.

Thais do get to do that and it often works as well. Nor are they particular bothered by refusals and time-wasting unless it's something essential. Mai pen rai! They don't childishly whinge and get their panties all in a wad about a gruff refusal.

It might work for you too. In fact, Thais often indulge farang behavior so that farangs get away with stuff Thais can't, esp. when there's some good money to be made.

But then again it might not work for you on any particular occasion. We know in the OP's case what definitely didn't work.

Now sometimes a farang might already be perceived negatively before he opens his mouth. As some posters have noted, the chances of that are MUCH greater in tourist-shocked Pattaya. Life ain't fair.

But me, I just go ahead and maximize the possibility that I'll be perceived positively and get what I want ASAP with least effort. I hardly think about it, it's so easy, I'm so used to it having lived in Asia so long and learned so long ago. Things just usually go more smoothly their way, the polite their way. If it doesn't, then I just say mai pen rai too. Seriously.

The only exception is at a government office, where the beggar puts on the kindest cloak of politeness because it must be done.

You know, it's amazing how some farangs are so stupid they can't even see the wisdom of such at Immigration. I think most don't last long here.

I'd say that if all farangs always had used polite Thai manners when dealing w/ Thais, we'd all be feeling a lot more welcome here. Too many here full of themselves as in this thread.

JSixpac,

Thanks for the lessons on dealing with disrespectful Thai staff but I disagree. You are encouraging this petulant behavior by treating them like kindergartners.

Yes, ma'am. I guess everyone here but me thinks that disagreement is awfully important.

It ain't our place to change Thai society and go around giving lessons. Alas, a lot of our stupid farang stay unhappy because they've just arrogantly never been able to accept the reality.

To take a common example, many a farang has tried to give a group of Thais the lesson that anyone can park in a public parking space anytime. Not to so would be to encourage their lawbreaking and their illusion that the space can only be used for their own benefit. Farang unhappiness followed; no more lessons were given on that point. (And that's just a small one.)

Happiness and contentment here lie in accepting the culture as it is and finding ways around it and ways to use it to your own advantage.

Thai people don't lick the boots of disrespectful Thai staff and neither should a foreigner. In fact, if you are younger, poorer or have a job in the service industry it's your job is to kiss ass.

That's the Thai way.

Straw man argument; all that silly chip-on-your-shoulder "boot licking" nonsense doesn't cut any mustard either. Sorry, pal.

You've missed the point to try to head off disrespectful behavior before it happens, partly by ensuring your own behavior isn't perceived as disrespectful and so cause it in the first place.

As a farang, you're an outsider with whom Thais tend not to feel comfortable anyway. It's well to try to help them overcome that feeling. I also suspect that after dealing w/ a lot of farang in Pattaya, most Thais can't help feeling superior to what they see and encounter. I can certainly understand that. And sitting in an exchange booth at Tukcom? I'd be ready scream.

I'd argue that since it's their country, their race, and their language and culture (points of which all Thais are keenly aware), and a farang--an outsider normally lacking any extended Thai family or Thai VIP support system--is just here on a visa (99%) and can be accused and kicked out at any time, Thais are all in some way in a superior position, like it or not.

It's well, esp. for us long-term residents, for a farang to keep that in mind and treat all Thais respectfully. Do feel free to disagree.

Next.

As long as you hold the same to be true for thais living or visiting western countries; aliens make me uncomfortable as well so they need to go out of their way to help me overcome that feeling, as you said.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Showbags]

Should have reciprocated and gave her the middle finger/flipped the bird.

and a nice brown eye to boot...

[whatchamacallit]

I thought exchange booths were for only exchanging foreign currency to Baht.

To purchase foreign currency you are required to comply with currency controls in a Bank branch?

Sooo - maybe She Cannot in the OP and at least was being truthful.

You are missing the point. Its her attitude and her rude demeanor and the fact that she would rather play with her tablet while working rather than give me 30 seconds of her time. I am not questioning and complaining about wether or not she can change baht into foreign currency. Edited April 13, 2014 by whatchamacallit

[JSixpack]

As long as you hold the same to be true for thais living or visiting western countries; aliens make me uncomfortable as well so they need to go out of their way to help me overcome that feeling, as you said.

Absolutely I do, but most will not (exceptions below). Common complaint about Thai students who go abroad to learn English, for example: they don't learn much English 'cause they spend all their time w/ their Thai friends speaking Thai!

Big inhibiting factor is that then the conversation absolutely MUST be in English. Of course, they should know English; most do know some, but don't feel confident or don't understand the idioms/slang/pronunciations they encounter. Not easy.

Best is if both parties make some effort. I did when I was in the USA--first met some Taiwanese and took Chinese lessons. Later I had a Taiwanese girlfriend. Then I met some Thais working in my company (who got me interested in Thailand) and Japanese. These Asians were educated, quality people and their English excellent, so we communicated well, and they enjoyed introducing me to their cultures, notably the FOOD . "Will Chinese take over the world?" "The food will!" Super nice; I was lucky to have met them.

[tropo]

If one has successfully applied for and obtained employment in a role that exclusively deals with foreigners, then it should be accepted that said person is happy to interact with said foreigners and accept their different ways.

I very much doubt they have a long line of applicants who can communicate in English who wish to spend their days in a small exchange booth. My guess is they don't find staff easily and need to take what they can get. You'd be surprised at just how difficult it is to find staff in Pattaya for peanut-paying menial jobs.

Let's face the reality here. Even if an exchange lady is rude, what financial "damage" is the exchange taking? It's not like money changers are going to find loyal customers who return everyday to exchange money. Most tourists just look around and use the nearest they can find wherever they happen to be. At the end of the day it's only the numbers on the board behind the staff which is of interest to customers.

Besides, the OP wanted to buy US dollars, something the exchange booth doesn't do, so even being rude is inconsequential. They'll likely be a different lady working in there since this thread started anyway. There could be a very friendly lady in there today. A lot of ladies doing these jobs are hunting for foreign "companions" anyway and the job is just a front.

Edited April 13, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

When I am angry I am not going to shout or act like a small child, I am then forceful and tell them what the problem is and voice my complaints. Of course that does not always work, but sometimes you know there is no resolution possible and then this is an option.

Being nice is preferable if you need to get something done even though your not happy at all. If possible you can take your service somewhere else but don't expect the people to loose any sleep over it. I would not do it if it inconveniences me too much. I rather then swallow my pride get stuff done then to make it hard on me too.

LOL. That Dutch practicality wins in the end.

I think you'd find more backlash as a foreigner getting angry in Pattaya compared to a location where Thais seldom deal with them (theory).

I would not take your advice on getting angry EVER. The chance of it going bad are high compared to the chance of success.

You do have an advantage with your Thai language skills though, so perhaps you may have better success than most of us, but generally I'd consider it bad advice.

I've seen Thais here start boiling at the mere hint of anger from foreigners. They can be on the attack so quickly it's positively frightening. They really don't care about their job or the situation when they get mad.

[tropo]

tbh I don't care, there are another 3 in my immediate area were the staff are always pleasant

For now anyway, until they hire rude staff.

Staff turnover at 7Elevens can be high.

[Tokay]

What ever happened to the Land of Smile?

It was kissed good-bye when Thailand was filled with foreign drunks and perverts. Go to any city, the more drunks and pervs they have, the worse the attitudes of the locals are. Less drunks and pervs, great attitudes.

In a nutshell, foreigners killed the smiles. Assuming the smiles were real in the first place.

[tropo]

What ever happened to the Land of Smile?

It was kissed good-bye when Thailand was filled with foreign drunks and perverts. Go to any city, the more drunks and pervs they have, the worse the attitudes of the locals are. Less drunks and pervs, great attitudes.

In a nutshell, foreigners killed the smiles. Assuming the smiles were real in the first place.

When was that? I reckon they've been here a very long time, back when Thais smiled a lot more, if they ever did.

There's another huge whole in your theory too. Thais absolutely love their alcohol and the city is jam packed with Thai drunks each and every night... and they smile quite a lot in their drunken revelry.

[BritManToo]

What ever happened to the Land of Smile?

It was kissed good-bye when Thailand was filled with foreign drunks and perverts. Go to any city, the more drunks and pervs they have, the worse the attitudes of the locals are. Less drunks and pervs, great attitudes.

In a nutshell, foreigners killed the smiles. Assuming the smiles were real in the first place.

Luckily, there are no Thai drunks or Thai perverts around.

[robblok]

When I am angry I am not going to shout or act like a small child, I am then forceful and tell them what the problem is and voice my complaints. Of course that does not always work, but sometimes you know there is no resolution possible and then this is an option.

Being nice is preferable if you need to get something done even though your not happy at all. If possible you can take your service somewhere else but don't expect the people to loose any sleep over it. I would not do it if it inconveniences me too much. I rather then swallow my pride get stuff done then to make it hard on me too.

LOL. That Dutch practicality wins in the end.

I think you'd find more backlash as a foreigner getting angry in Pattaya compared to a location where Thais seldom deal with them (theory).

I would not take your advice on getting angry EVER. The chance of it going bad are high compared to the chance of success.

You do have an advantage with your Thai language skills though, so perhaps you may have better success than most of us, but generally I'd consider it bad advice.

I've seen Thais here start boiling at the mere hint of anger from foreigners. They can be on the attack so quickly it's positively frightening. They really don't care about their job or the situation when they get mad.

Tropo,

As I said anger on my part does not mean raising my voice or acting stupid. In general I dont get angry at all its hard to get me angry.

About the practicality in general if you want to make a statement and taking your money somewhere else it does not work on the small stuff. It might work if you are buying a car or large purchases from smaller shops like if you order a fence to be made or something like that and are talking with the owner and tell him your buying somewhere else, otherwise it has zero impact on them. So would I inconvenience myself for something that has no effect on them.. no way.

Ill give you an other example of me getting angry (and not getting anywhere but feeling better i knew no resolution to be had).

First a bit of general information.. I was on one of the islands in the south, and was going to an other island. From experience I know that the speedboats are overloaded and dangerous and painful (if you have to sit in the front). I can manage but was traveling with my parents. So I went out and specifically asked for a ferry ticket (fast ferry) and paid extra for it. 6 tickets.

Once there we were herded into a speedboat that was too full and people were made to sit in the front. (I went there so my parents could sit int he back). It was a total disgrace everyone was complaining. The Thai captain acted like he could not understand English. So I told him in Thai that he was cheating us and that the boat was overloaded and we paid for ferry tickets. I told him the other tourists also complained. I was not expecting a resolution there but really felt this situation needed to be addressed. So I did nothing happened.. got a I am not responsible from the captain. (had not expected anything else). I was not looking for a refund as even on 6 tickets it would only be around 2000 bt in total and to arrange that from one Island to an other would be too much trouble. The overloading of speedboats happens there a lot so yes if something happens like that I tell them and complain. Shortage of life jackets ect. I was especially displeased as I had taken steps to avoid being on a speed boat with my parents. I can accept it.. but my parents are older.. mom was all cramped up and could not sit properly. So yes sometimes I do complain and I am still alive, but only in situations where i feel no resolution of the problem is possible.

[Neeranam]

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

[JesseFrank]

Could the thread title be changed to " the Thaier than Thai thread " ?

[JSixpack]

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

[whatchamacallit]

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Apparently you haven read all my postings :-). Again: I knocked on the glass partition gently - I am Asian and look Thai. I put a big smile when I asked the question. She was playing with her tablet when I asked her the question - she looked pissed and was not happy to be disturbed. It's not about cultural differences - it's about attitude.

Why any of you would lower yourself to sub-par service from anyone and have to tip toe around just to get a decent service is beyond me.

Edited April 14, 2014 by whatchamacallit

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Using your logic, "Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long", means that anyone working in a tourist service industry, Thailand or anywhere else, has your carte blanche approval to be rude to the customers.

Edited April 14, 2014 by giddyup

[ZigZagMan]

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

Interesting approach.

Why not just wear one of these?

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

Interesting approach.

Why not just wear one of these?

jsixpac.jpg

Or use the New York approach, "please can you help me, or should I just piss off?"

Edited April 14, 2014 by giddyup

[JSixpack]

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Apparently you haven read all my postings :-). Again: I knocked on the glass partition gently - I am Asian and look Thai. I put a big smile when I asked the question. She was playing with her tablet when I asked her the question - she looked pissed and was not happy to be disturbed. It's not about cultural differences - it's about attitude.

Why any of you would lower yourself to sub-par service from anyone and have to tip toe around just to get a decent service is beyond me.

Yep, it's about attitude. Well, it's just going to have to be one of those unsolved Mysteries Of The Exotic Orient things for you. Time to close the thread?

[JSixpack]

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

Interesting approach.

Why not just wear one of these?

jsixpac.jpg

Give it a try. You got nothing to lose.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

Interesting approach.

Why not just wear one of these?

jsixpac.jpg

Give it a try. You got nothing to lose.

I thought you wanted the thread closed?

[JSixpack]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Bring along an iPad yourself, play a sec in front of the booth, show a cartoon or pic of a cute dog or kid, get some pleased comments, then ask your question.

Interesting approach.

Why not just wear one of these?

jsixpac.jpg

Give it a try. You got nothing to lose.

I thought you wanted the thread closed?

I merely asked; and It's not closed yet.

Glad to have helped you figure that out.

Next.

[champers]

Keep the thread open; it's turned into a real hoot.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Keep the thread open; it's turned into a real hoot.

I don't know why someone would ask for a thread to be closed if they are still going to contribute to it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by giddyup

[Neeranam]

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Apparently you haven read all my postings :-). Again: I knocked on the glass partition gently - I am Asian and look Thai. I put a big smile when I asked the question. She was playing with her tablet when I asked her the question - she looked pissed and was not happy to be disturbed. It's not about cultural differences - it's about attitude.

Why any of you would lower yourself to sub-par service from anyone and have to tip toe around just to get a decent service is beyond me.

If you look Thai and are rude then a Thai will not cut you some slack as they would a foreign looking person.

Thailand is a land of Kingdoms - everyone has their own little(or big) kingdom. The girl at a money changing desk rules that area and Thai people respect that. Tapping on the glass is disrespecting her. You can adapt to the way things are done here or not. If you don't, the chances are that you will be unhappy.

I'd rather be happy than 'right'.

[Neeranam]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Using your logic, "Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long", means that anyone working in a tourist service industry, Thailand or anywhere else, has your carte blanche approval to be rude to the customers.

My approval? Certainly not but my understanding. A female Thai bank employee in Pattaya has to put up with all sorts of crap from sexpats thinking all Thai women are game.

[smedly]

the truth of the matter is this

we are not generally liked by Thais - we are tolerated and an increasing number of Thais are finding it difficult to hide the fact, the situation is not helped by an increasing number of foreigners visiting from countries were being rude and abrupt and not having a general level of manners is the norm.

So to a certain extent the play has changed, some here are suggesting we should roll over and tolerate the rude Thai attitude that in my opinion is and has been increasing recently, that might be the best way to handle it and might be the only choice going forward but it doesn't make it right and things can only get worse.

[JesseFrank]

23 years ago it was a common occurrence although no tablet and facebook but that 'tetris' hand held game that EVERYONE was playing.

The OP was rude to knock. A simple, 'khor thot na crap' will work wonders. Can't blame a bank worker having to deal with foreigners all day long.

Apparently you haven read all my postings :-). Again: I knocked on the glass partition gently - I am Asian and look Thai. I put a big smile when I asked the question. She was playing with her tablet when I asked her the question - she looked pissed and was not happy to be disturbed. It's not about cultural differences - it's about attitude.

Why any of you would lower yourself to sub-par service from anyone and have to tip toe around just to get a decent service is beyond me.

If you look Thai and are rude then a Thai will not cut you some slack as they would a foreign looking person.

Thailand is a land of Kingdoms - everyone has their own little(or big) kingdom. The girl at a money changing desk rules that area and Thai people respect that. Tapping on the glass is disrespecting her. You can adapt to the way things are done here or not. If you don't, the chances are that you will be unhappy.

I'd rather be happy than 'right'.

Tapping on the window is plain rude, even coughing or saying something that might disturb her in her important activity like facebook or Instagram, may be considered appropriate.

So the only proper way to get the attention of a Thai service person is as followed

Edited April 14, 2014 by JesseFrank

[Donnie Brasco]

I was in an organizational meeting two weeks ago. Operations Poobahs had decided that a few of the organization's less bright lights while not due for the chop, wouldn't get salary increases, bonuses or increased responsibilities this time 'round.

The reasons for this had been common knowledge for years.

In the West they'd have been terminated at the time of merger.

Anyway, a few of these people insisted by right of all important work-friend relationships on attending a meeting to which they had not been invited.

I have always made it my business to learn both the office nick-names and the formal names of every Thai who reports to me and I make it a practice to smile and greet and acknowledge attendees at meetings as they arrive.

One woman in particular, a rather lazy, passive/aggressive sulker type failed to respond to my informal greeting in any way but continued to greet and interact with other attendees as they arrived.

I addressed her again by her formal name after the attendees had taken their seats.

Again there was no acknowledgement of having been greeted.

I'd had enough and in the full knowledge that most other attendees have had this gal's number as lazy trouble-maker I addressed her in Thai. I've raised children here and in the Old Country so I know this game.

With a Thai manager-style smile but full-on gringo motivation.

It went something like this:

"Khun Xxxxx, Xxxxxxx staff was not invited to this meeting.

You came anyway.

You ignored my customary acknowledgement as you entered.

Tell me, was I speaking too quietly for you to hear ? Did I mis pronounce your nickname ? Were you too busy chatting with other attendees to hear ? Did I mispronounce your name the second time I greeted you ? Is there a cross-cultural issue here I'm not getting ??

Can you answer me ?"

Her only response was that wan Thai "sam-eye" they lay on you in defiance of authority.

"I only mention this because I find your behaviour rude. In fact your behaviour is inexcusable and unacceptable in polite gatherings anywhere in the world."

They love it when I have a go at speaking Thai so there were some friendly smiles of support.

And, if I am not mistaken quite a number of approving smiles and nods for having slammed this woman's rude behaviour.

She's still around mind you. Un-promoted, un-bonussed, and unliked.

You can win one of these sometimes.

You just have to know when you've made your point.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "