Bangkok police stop 100 million Baht fake ATM card fraud

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Bangkok police stop 100 million Baht fake ATM card fraud

file photo

Bangkok: -- Police in the Lumpini district of the city have arrested two Romanian nationals caught in possession of 795 counterfeit ATM cards.

It is believed that the suspects had been under investigation by the police following a spate of money withdrawals using fake ATM cards across inner city Bangkok.

Pol Maj Gen Suebsak Phansura said the men were apprehended after they were seen acting suspiciously in the Kloeng Toey district on Tuesday April 8th. After an initial search on the roadside, one of the individuals was found to be carrying a haul of ATM cards. The pair were then escorted to an address on Sukhumvit Soi 11 where a further search was carried out.

Following both searches, a total of 795 ATM cards and a high-tech mobile data skimmer were seized by detectives.

Further investigation, with additional help from Siam Commercial Bank, found that out of the 795 cards, 364 were blank, while 431 were said to contain transactional data, thought to be embedded from bank accounts hacked in Italy.

The bank officials estimated that had the pair been able to successfully use all the cards to withdraw the maximum amount from ATM machines, the possible damage could have totalled at more than 100 million Baht.

After being interviewed by police, the pair said they were hired and paid 500 euros each to withdraw money using the fake cards at various locations throughout Bangkok.

After analysing CCTV footage, police believe that the two men, and another man who was later arrested at the address on Sukhumvit Soi 11, had already withdrawn around 1 million Baht using the counterfeit cards.

-- 2014-04-09

[55Jay]

So they obtain hacked bank account information and program blank cards to pull from those accounts? Very unnerving.

[clockman]

Yes, but who hired them? We never see any big persons getting caught!

[skyaslimit]

Yes, but who hired them? We never see any big persons getting caught!

According to channel 3 news some russian gang hired them.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NamKAheng]

Those Romanians ATM gang are going at it everywhere, Europe, America, Asia.

[chainarong]

Quiet possibly they were helped by other agencies.

[BirdsandBooze]

Romanians are the world leader in ATM fraud and have been for quite some time.

[ezzra]

Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

[Basil B]

Why has Thailand not implemented "MicroChip" cards...

Skimming and rewriting the magnetic strip is "child's play".

[55Jay]

I don't remember if it was a chip card exactly, but recall being offered something like that by Bangkok Bank, but was told the card wouldn't work in other bank ATMs, so many people didn't want them.

Are microchip cards impossible to create like these guys did, or just harder than the easier mag strip cards?

[phiber]

I don't remember if it was a chip card exactly, but recall being offered something like that by Bangkok Bank, but was told the card wouldn't work in other bank ATMs, so many people didn't want them.

Are microchip cards impossible to create like these guys did, or just harder than the easier mag strip cards?

"Microchip" cards are more difficult to clone, most ATMs dont have hardware support to read them.

[MobileContent]

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Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

A good point you make. +1

I think the clients in Europe are covered and will get their money back but who covers the cost is a good question. In Thailand I think the consumer is not covered and the bank might just not refund the money.

[technologybytes]

You have to keep in mind that it's the Italian bank in this case who lose money, not the Thai banks. So this kind of offence tends to be dealt with leniently compared to if they stole the money from a Thai person.

This scam works because most of the ATM cards issued worldwide will be backwards compatible with the old technology that the Thai banks use. The problem is always the weakest link in the chain, which here is the continued use of magnetic stripe technology.

Interesting in the photo you see a card reader/encoder and a much smaller skimmer device. This kind of goes against their story that they were just being paid to withdraw the money.

[55Jay]

You have to keep in mind that it's the Italian bank in this case who lose money, not the Thai banks. So this kind of offence tends to be dealt with leniently compared to if they stole the money from a Thai person.

This scam works because most of the ATM cards issued worldwide will be backwards compatible with the old technology that the Thai banks use. The problem is always the weakest link in the chain, which here is the continued use of magnetic stripe technology.

Interesting in the photo you see a card reader/encoder and a much smaller skimmer device. This kind of goes against their story that they were just being paid to withdraw the money.

I think it's a stock photo "file photo" from another case.

[koo]

I don't remember if it was a chip card exactly, but recall being offered something like that by Bangkok Bank, but was told the card wouldn't work in other bank ATMs, so many people didn't want them.

Are microchip cards impossible to create like these guys did, or just harder than the easier mag strip cards?

Yes, Bangkok Bank cards are now chip cards. I obtained mine a couple weeks back. It goes to the normal card slot, but takes a couple of seconds more to process, while the ATM reads the chip. The card can only be used in Bangkok Bank ATMs (for the moment, since no other bank has chip ATMs in Thailand?). The ATM reads the magstripe when you insert the card, but I guess the card information forces the ATM to look for the chip next. Any attempt to withdraw money with the magstripe only will fail, since the backend computer in Bangkok Bank requires the chip to be present.

Thus this card is safe, because skimming the magstripe is not enough to copy the card. And as we know, the algorhythmic chip technology makes it (currently) impossible to clone the chip.

You can use the card for payments in chip POS as well (atleast 7-11 have them).

As a bonus, my card has the "Rabbit NFC" also, so I can use this as a payment in Bangkok's MRT and BTS trains as well, no hassle with the coins or long queues for tickets any more :-)

Edited April 9, 2014 by koo

[abrahamzvi]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

A good point you make. +1

I think the clients in Europe are covered and will get their money back but who covers the cost is a good question. In Thailand I think the consumer is not covered and the bank might just not refund the money.

Not correct. If one reads the prior news article about SCB being hacked, one would note that the Bank categorically stated that the customers whose accounts were plundered would be compensated by the bank. I think the situation vis a vis the consumer is quite clear.

[Doc46]

You have to keep in mind that it's the Italian bank in this case who lose money, not the Thai banks. So this kind of offence tends to be dealt with leniently compared to if they stole the money from a Thai person.

This scam works because most of the ATM cards issued worldwide will be backwards compatible with the old technology that the Thai banks use. The problem is always the weakest link in the chain, which here is the continued use of magnetic stripe technology.

Interesting in the photo you see a card reader/encoder and a much smaller skimmer device. This kind of goes against their story that they were just being paid to withdraw the money.

I don't give a s,h,i,t, witch bank they are stealing the money from;;; they should be locked up for life and their hands be cut off;;

[55Jay]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

A good point you make. +1

I think the clients in Europe are covered and will get their money back but who covers the cost is a good question. In Thailand I think the consumer is not covered and the bank might just not refund the money.

Not correct. If one reads the prior news article about SCB being hacked, one would note that the Bank categorically stated that the customers whose accounts were plundered would be compensated by the bank. I think the situation vis a vis the consumer is quite clear.

Do (Thai) banks may have a reserve to cover major incidents like this?

Maybe the answer is we would all pay for it through higher fees, higher rates, and less interest on deposit products.

If they have insurance, and the insurance company had to pay out, the premium would likely go up and that rolls downhill to us as well.

[heybuz]

i have a chipped debit card and it worked in all atms from 2 years ago in thailand

[ronthai]

Unfortunately, these kind of criminals are here and will stay here for a long time to come.

Best to protect yourself (bank account) is to:

- Always ATM at the bank, but not always convinient, I know.

- Check the ATM for scimmer and such, sometimes is hard to see also.

- Best and safest way: Have 2 bank accounts with an internet access. Most banks will give you 2 accounts.

Use 1 account to have all your money in and the second only transfer the 10.000-20.000 (or more) you wish to withdraw, by ATM

That way the ATM account will be always empty or almost.

[SoFarAndNear]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

A good point you make. +1

I think the clients in Europe are covered and will get their money back but who covers the cost is a good question. In Thailand I think the consumer is not covered and the bank might just not refund the money.

Not correct. If one reads the prior news article about SCB being hacked, one would note that the Bank categorically stated that the customers whose accounts were plundered would be compensated by the bank. I think the situation vis a vis the consumer is quite clear.

Do (Thai) banks may have a reserve to cover major incidents like this?

Maybe the answer is we would all pay for it through higher fees, higher rates, and less interest on deposit products.

If they have insurance, and the insurance company had to pay out, the premium would likely go up and that rolls downhill to us as well.

You really believe a Thai bank would compensate Italian bank customers if some criminals would withdraw through their ATMs. The Thai Banks earning money on Fee's for all these fraud transactions. Probably many thousands of fraud transactions every month. Maybe If the bank customer who has been scammed is from Thailand the bank will maybe compensate but only if the customers really can prove that he didn't act negligent like lost his card and forgot to report that. But on international scaming - no way!

[Prbkk]

It is odd that all manner of ratbags are allowed into Thailand under some kind of open door visitor visa program and yet govts ( of all persuasions) seem to put every obstacle possible in the path of legitimate long-termers with money or skills. I don't get it.

[55Jay]

Not correct. If one reads the prior news article about SCB being hacked, one would note that the Bank categorically stated that the customers whose accounts were plundered would be compensated by the bank. I think the situation vis a vis the consumer is quite clear.

Do (Thai) banks may have a reserve to cover major incidents like this?

Maybe the answer is we would all pay for it through higher fees, higher rates, and less interest on deposit products.

If they have insurance, and the insurance company had to pay out, the premium would likely go up and that rolls downhill to us as well.

You really believe a Thai bank would compensate Italian bank customers if some criminals would withdraw through their ATMs. The Thai Banks earning money on Fee's for all these fraud transactions. Probably many thousands of fraud transactions every month. Maybe If the bank customer who has been scammed is from Thailand the bank will maybe compensate but only if the customers really can prove that he didn't act negligent like lost his card and forgot to report that. But on international scaming - no way!

No.

I should have deleted the previous quotes. I was referring to the nearest quote re: SCB.

[MoonShadow]

Interesting that this surfaces the same day as the other badly written article.

1) These are clone cards with data from an Italian bank being used in Thailand.(According to the article).

2) Thai Banks have no obligation to repay anybody if a clone card is used (unless it was skimmed from one of their machines), especially if it is from abroad.

3) As this is not a Thai bank issue, why do folk continually knock Thai banks. My Thai bank always sends an SMS for any transaction using my card, for me to check; so do my UK and HK bankers. The question folk should be asking is why aren't the Italian banks doing this. Certainly if you were an Italian using your card for predominantely domestic transactions you should ask your bank why they do not query 'out of pattern behaviour' such as withdrawals from outside of Italy.

4) When cards are cloned and not on White plastic, the skimmers will use any embossed or coloured plastic....often the bank identifier details on the card will not match the supposed bank i.e the identfying number maybe for HSBC but the card shows Citibank logo!

5) The cards shown are from Citi and Standard Chartered banks; both routinely use chip cards, neither has a significant retail banking operation in Thailand.

[Muhendis]

Why has Thailand not implemented "MicroChip" cards...

Skimming and rewriting the magnetic strip is "child's play".

Thailand is beginning to implement the chip-n-pin cards but, according to the OP the cards were skimmed in Italy so it would seem that the Microchip question needs putting to the Italians.

[fonsboy]

You have to keep in mind that it's the Italian bank in this case who lose money, not the Thai banks. So this kind of offence tends to be dealt with leniently compared to if they stole the money from a Thai person.

This scam works because most of the ATM cards issued worldwide will be backwards compatible with the old technology that the Thai banks use. The problem is always the weakest link in the chain, which here is the continued use of magnetic stripe technology.

Interesting in the photo you see a card reader/encoder and a much smaller skimmer device. This kind of goes against their story that they were just being paid to withdraw the money.

I don't give a s,h,i,t, witch bank they are stealing the money from;;; they should be locked up for life and their hands be cut off;;

You are right cut off their hands . That's the only way to stop these Eastern European scumbags . Since Russia allowed them free reign they have terrorised the western world .

[Gandtee]

Maybe off topic but a couple of weeks ago I received an email supposedly from a friend of mine who needed help? I phoned him and he said he knew nothing about it. I ignored the email and a couple of days later received another purportedly from him saying that he was'on holiday in the Ukraine? and had been called up country and was short of funds etc. the usual scam. A couple of days later my Hotmail account was cancelled by Microsoft saying that because I had been accessing sensitive material they needed my access security code? Could this be linked to the begging email scammer? What sensitive material have I had access to in TV???.

[ratcatcher]

I don't give a s,h,i,t, witch bank they are stealing the money from;;; they should be locked up for life and their hands be cut off;;

You are right cut off their hands . That's the only way to stop these Eastern European scumbags . Since Russia allowed them free reign they have terrorised the western world .

Why not go all the way and render them completely 'armless?

[belg]

do they pass border security (with 1000 blank cards) or are these thai blank cards?

[rijit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Until the Thai government will change the current penalties for such crimes, these scumbags will

continue to come here by their droves.. it seems to me that no one really care that 100's of millions

of baht are being stolen every year, who pays for all that damages? and who cover the costs? I wonder.

A good point you make. +1

I think the clients in Europe are covered and will get their money back but who covers the cost is a good question. In Thailand I think the consumer is not covered and the bank might just not refund the money.

Not correct. If one reads the prior news article about SCB being hacked, one would note that the Bank categorically stated that the customers whose accounts were plundered would be compensated by the bank. I think the situation vis a vis the consumer is quite clear.

Do (Thai) banks may have a reserve to cover major incidents like this?

Maybe the answer is we would all pay for it through higher fees, higher rates, and less interest on deposit products.

If they have insurance, and the insurance company had to pay out, the premium would likely go up and that rolls downhill to us as well.

18 mnths ish ago My thai g/f had her details 'stolen' cloned what ever the term is in milan and on returning to bangkok, found that over a week or so, a mil ish baht was withdrawn from atms in russia. I'm not sure what she had to present but Her thai bank fully refunded her.