Another populist setback may be looming

[marcusd]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Go away and drown in Sonkran. Don't you ever learn? You must be very very poorly educated or you are a relative of fat boy in North Korea. I would really love to meet you ANYWHERE as I am rich and can afford to travel. I would really love to show you a thing or two about your sprouting off at everything to support this crooked regime and I will be alone, just you and me discussing the virtues of how to solve the ills of this world over a nice gin and tonic.

that way I could really see the ideologies first hand and maybe understand you more because here, i like so many others, have no idea what planet you are coming from.

"Go away and drown in Sonkran"

LOL

Sincerely, that is funny and creative

you should still meet me. Scared?

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[scorecard]

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There is a new car dealership being built not far from me here in Hang Dong. On the lot next to the dealership there sit well over a 1000 used car of all types. I am thinking that the owner of the dealership must have gotten a good deal on repos. As many as he has he might have to sell them at a huge discount. Fire Sale

See the same large lot with many used cars twice every day, obviously most are near new, total number seems to be getting bigger and bigger by the day.

I guess one can assume they didn't fall out of the sky by magic.

[rametindallas]

Quote name="rametindallas" post="7681260" timestamp="1397281381"]

I hate the word.populism.

Cars in Thailand are taxed to death. All the right leaning small govt ideologists should be applauding giving the taxes back.

But hey TIT. Land of contradictory support.

When all the ''advanced' countries are doing their utmost to get the citizenry to use public transportation, Thailand's government decides to subsidize the use of personal cars; and do it in a city that was already near gridlock from personal cars. Thinking about the long-term consequences of their actions is not in the Thai make-up. Giving tax supports to buy major item like a car just puts people further in debt; Thais were already awash in consumer debt. The money they tie up each month in car payments is now not being spent on the general economy so the general economy suffers. All governments, not just Thailand's, need to stay out of manipulating the economy and let the free market work. No government in the world is good at picking winners and losers and it just opens the possibilities of more corruption to insiders.

No it wasn't a subsidy. It was a tax rebate on small cars.

I think that is used quite universally around the world to encourage people to buy small efficient cars. All the rest is semantics.

This reduced government revenue in the medium term, it did not cost the government a penny. People simply got back the tax they had paid.

Its OK. All this political tension believing that every step that this government takes is obviously designed to give away something for nothing. The ecological arguments are valid and the credit stuff too.

That's a different issue as to whether the policy was populist. I consider giving people back their taxes a good thing, particularly those who need it most.

What they should have done is permenenatly reduce the tax on small cars. But that would have been construed as even more populist.

Like I said. Tax land and get rid of all these stupid duties. Any takers

I mean if you can afford all that land and leave it sitting empty, can't you afford a couple of 100 per rai.

I completely agree the there should be substantial tax on undeveloped land as currently there is none (This is allowing wealthy landowners to sit on vast tracts of land with no tax penalty, thereby keeping it off the market, and driving up land prices to the point that average Thais cannot afford land). I completely agree there should be a tax incentive for very fuel-efficient cars. I consider a 'populist' program as a program that gives a benefit that does not generally benefit the society as a whole but wins friends/votes for the government that promotes those programs. Greece is an example of populism gone wild.

We already pay tax on my wife's farmland (220 rai) and this increases if we don't plant anything on the land ( which we wont be doing this year) so the wife will rent it out to several other farmers to make a little money avoid the risk and the extra tax

I must be misinformed.

[Anon999]

Populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market.

When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master.

This OP highlights another example of this cancer.

Ignorance destroys an attempt at an intelligent discussion. Vietnam and India had bumper rice harvests. India poured large amounts into its rice subsidy program and engaged in trade deals that other countries who respect trade sanctions would not enter into. India dumped rice on the market. Don't let those inconvenient facts get in your way.

The automobile incentive was intended to boost the Thai automotive sector when it most needed support. Although not as large as the US and Canadian government bailouts of their auto industries, it provided a much needed boost to the auto manufacturers who had suffered from the Thai floods. Thailand auto sector is a major source of revenue for the government and skilled jobs for its workers. The incentives were welcomed by the business sector and were considered helpful.

See you managed to evade mentioning the UK 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme! You enjoy evading. It was much more sensible and would have removed a lot of the mobile junk that's clogging up the roads and at far less cost. Of course everyone with any nous fiddled the scheme by buying cars under the name of a relative, many paying cash and getting the refund before the money ran out.

[Thai at Heart]

Quote name="rametindallas" post="7681260" timestamp="1397281381"]

I hate the word.populism.

Cars in Thailand are taxed to death. All the right leaning small govt ideologists should be applauding giving the taxes back.

But hey TIT. Land of contradictory support.

When all the ''advanced' countries are doing their utmost to get the citizenry to use public transportation, Thailand's government decides to subsidize the use of personal cars; and do it in a city that was already near gridlock from personal cars. Thinking about the long-term consequences of their actions is not in the Thai make-up. Giving tax supports to buy major item like a car just puts people further in debt; Thais were already awash in consumer debt. The money they tie up each month in car payments is now not being spent on the general economy so the general economy suffers. All governments, not just Thailand's, need to stay out of manipulating the economy and let the free market work. No government in the world is good at picking winners and losers and it just opens the possibilities of more corruption to insiders.

No it wasn't a subsidy. It was a tax rebate on small cars.

I think that is used quite universally around the world to encourage people to buy small efficient cars. All the rest is semantics.

This reduced government revenue in the medium term, it did not cost the government a penny. People simply got back the tax they had paid.

Its OK. All this political tension believing that every step that this government takes is obviously designed to give away something for nothing. The ecological arguments are valid and the credit stuff too.

That's a different issue as to whether the policy was populist. I consider giving people back their taxes a good thing, particularly those who need it most.

What they should have done is permenenatly reduce the tax on small cars. But that would have been construed as even more populist.

Like I said. Tax land and get rid of all these stupid duties. Any takers

I mean if you can afford all that land and leave it sitting empty, can't you afford a couple of 100 per rai.

I completely agree the there should be substantial tax on undeveloped land as currently there is none (This is allowing wealthy landowners to sit on vast tracts of land with no tax penalty, thereby keeping it off the market, and driving up land prices to the point that average Thais cannot afford land). I completely agree there should be a tax incentive for very fuel-efficient cars. I consider a 'populist' program as a program that gives a benefit that does not generally benefit the society as a whole but wins friends/votes for the government that promotes those programs. Greece is an example of populism gone wild.

Yes Greece bankrupted itself, but Thailand is miles away from that.

It is just that it has no become a.situation that anything put together to give the poor a break is slammed as being populist, socialist or dangerous for the good of the country.

Barely anyone pays their income taxes correctly in Thailand, benefit in kind is unheard of, and the property market is a washing machine for cash.

So whilst everyone moans that the car populist car thing cost money, no one actually stops for a second to realise it did nothing of the sort. That is the problem with irrational discussion. It just gave people their taxes back. Why couldn't they reduce taxes on small cars permenentaly and put them up on luxuries even more. If you can afford 15mn tax you can afford 16. Tax breaks for the poor being slammed as immediately populist and irresponsible when the Gino coefficient is what it is, is ridiculous.

I lived and worked in Greece for 2 years about 12 years ago. The place was bust then.

[TallPalm]

If Suthep and the PDRC hadn't 'shutdown Bangkok' and ruined the Thai economy by detracting tourism and investment, at the same time as weakening the value of the Baht then perhaps the shortage of funds wouldn't have occured. The PDRC and the 'anti-government supporters' are cutting off the nose to spite the face and as always is the poor or average standing of society that feel the pinch.

Edited April 13, 2014 by TallPalm

[TallPalm]

i know many people who have taken advantage pif this and 80% + were actually quite rich buying additional cars or replacing early. Several to get over rules bought via their children and in 2 cases their children did not even live in Thailand but in west with dual nationality.

But Taksin supporters will continue to believe he and his regime care for poor when reality is they could not give a @#$#@ for poor.

And of course the poor sheep however many times they are done will still vote rode their hero. Mugabwie and NOrth korea and rest show how naive uneducated ( not stupid just brainwashed) still support those who will make their lives even worse and keep them in poverty for ever.

Shame on all those who spout total BS here regarding Taksin and his regime and while others might not be saints I've never in 30+ years here seen such a corrupt evil government.

So sherries go on voting for slavery under your hero Taksin and silly forang go on supporting far worse suppression of poor than ever before under the Taksin regime.

Read this...

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

[hawker9000]

i know many people who have taken advantage pif this and 80% + were actually quite rich buying additional cars or replacing early. Several to get over rules bought via their children and in 2 cases their children did not even live in Thailand but in west with dual nationality.

But Taksin supporters will continue to believe he and his regime care for poor when reality is they could not give a @#$#@ for poor.

And of course the poor sheep however many times they are done will still vote rode their hero. Mugabwie and NOrth korea and rest show how naive uneducated ( not stupid just brainwashed) still support those who will make their lives even worse and keep them in poverty for ever.

Shame on all those who spout total BS here regarding Taksin and his regime and while others might not be saints I've never in 30+ years here seen such a corrupt evil government.

So sherries go on voting for slavery under your hero Taksin and silly forang go on supporting far worse suppression of poor than ever before under the Taksin regime.

Read this...

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

Do we really have to? 9 pages of torturous whining about the judiciary (as if ANY judiciary anywhere in the world is free of political influence), Thaksin apologia, and "what nobody knows about Abhisit", by a self-important partisan blogger... . Most of what's in the article is stuff you've heard in bits & pieces hereabouts before. Thaksin's really a great guy; 'got a bad rap; people just don't know the real truth; Abhisit's a wolf in sheep's clothing, etc, etc. etc.. Be sure and read the 'From the Editor' postage stamp at the upper right.

Edited April 13, 2014 by hawker9000

[northernjohn]

If Suthep and the PDRC hadn't 'shutdown Bangkok' and ruined the Thai economy by detracting tourism and investment, at the same time as weakening the value of the Baht then perhaps the shortage of funds wouldn't have occured. The PDRC and the 'anti-government supporters' are cutting off the nose to spite the face and as always is the poor or average standing of society that feel the pinch.

Tourism accounts for only 6% of the countries business and it has not been hit that bad only in Bangkok.

I am getting less for my Canadian $ than before the grass roots people rose up and said no more corruption. If you have been around for a while you would know that was before Suthep came along and united the many different honesty seeking groups. I was to the understanding that the economy grew through the first quarter not shrank.

You have been listening to too many red shirts.

[Bangmod]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Sorry but aren't you all getting a bit tired from this poster, who got no clue what he's typing.

[Bangmod]

If Suthep and the PDRC hadn't 'shutdown Bangkok' and ruined the Thai economy by detracting tourism and investment, at the same time as weakening the value of the Baht then perhaps the shortage of funds wouldn't have occured. The PDRC and the 'anti-government supporters' are cutting off the nose to spite the face and as always is the poor or average standing of society that feel the pinch.

That's a lot of crap..

The car companies paying this money to the government, after selling the car, so the money should be there, so do not blame others for the fact that this government is nothing more than a bunch of thieves..

[Balance]

The only thing the car rebate did is fuel a coming train wreak with consumer debt. Thai people, like a lot of other people around the world have a hard time living on their income. So they borrow money without any clue as to how they will service the debt. The financial services industry knows what is going on, but the banks' answer to to push out more credit cards with high interest. There is a very large bubble out there and it is getting bigger and it WILL burst and Thailand will move backwards to a 1997 state of affairs. It could be stopped now, but there is NO political will to do it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.