How/when did songkran evolve from a respectful holiday to the rude mayhem that it is today?

[ClutchClark]

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

Great links!

Thanks very much.

[doodly]

Jolly well said Hardened Soul and as for Stan 744 please get a plane !

[tingtongteesood]

I am so damn fed up of idiots who keep complaining about people complaining, surely your complaining about people complaining is also complaining so you are just as bad ? And if people want to complain then what the hell is wrong with that ? Let them. Just stop reading it and move along if it really bothers you that much...

Edited April 15, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[Jingthing]

I am so damn fed up of idiots who keep complaining about people complaining, surely your complaining about people complaining is also complaining so you are just as bad ? And if people want to complain then what the hell is wrong with that ? Let them. Just don't stop reading it and move along if it really bothers you that much...

What he said!

[simondan]

Obviously population density, traffic density and much lower number of tourists then but images in the 1950's show a pretty active party then too.

At Nawarat bridge - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/detail_picturelanna.php?picture_id=583

More archive photos at cmu library - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails_cate.php?cate_id=15

Songkran then and now - Songkran myths

It was a quiet and respectful celebration!

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

This post and the photos linked to therein should be pinned as a lesson to all the whinging grumps who bitch about a tradition that - in stark contrast to what these clowns have read - evidently was NOT limited to the respectful pouring of water over the hands.

I think much of the hostility towards Songkran on TV forums is lies in the mentality these people have

For them, it's far less about the road fatalities and "lack of respect" than it is about "I've retired; I want peace and quiet"

No.

it is about excesses.

Give me Songkran over Christmas any day.

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[simondan]

Obviously population density, traffic density and much lower number of tourists then but images in the 1950's show a pretty active party then too.

At Nawarat bridge - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/detail_picturelanna.php?picture_id=583

More archive photos at cmu library - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails_cate.php?cate_id=15

Songkran then and now - Songkran myths

It was a quiet and respectful celebration!

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

This post and the photos linked to therein should be pinned as a lesson to all the whinging grumps who bitch about a tradition that - in stark contrast to what these clowns have read - evidently was NOT limited to the respectful pouring of water over the hands.

I think much of the hostility towards Songkran on TV forums is lies in the mentality these people have

For them, it's far less about the road fatalities and "lack of respect" than it is about "I've retired; I want peace and quiet"

No.

it is about excesses.

It is truly about not only excess but the forceful and aggressive behavior on the part of anyone who thinks they can assault another person, be it a frang, Thai or Asian, with water or any other substance. People have a right to enjoy freedom to walk on the street as a tourist or resident without being forced to participate in some local craziness.

If people wish to participate, then they have a right to so do in areas which have the water fights and other activities.

If a tourist or other resident wishes to walk wearing nice clothes on the way to a local restaurant for a dinner with their wife or friend, nobody has the legal or moral right to dump water on them and spoil their clothing and consequently their night out.

One of the things I have always appreciated about Thailand is the very polite nature of the people, but during Songkran, this all seems to be put aside and anyone can do anything to anyone without their permission at all.

I respect other cultures and beliefs but I do not accept everybody should "adapt" and "accept" some other national cultural event as their own in spite of living or traveling in another country. Do we go to Spain and run with the bulls since other people wish to risk their lives? If we were in the US do Americans expect us to participate in the 4th July or in the Guy Fawkes celebrations in the UK? Nobody visiting any country should be subjected to being "forces" to participate in any local celebration. If the Thais wish to do it, then they can without disturbing the peace and tranquility of others who wish not to participate. In many countries this is called Freedom of Choice, and it is not acceptable for people to say "go back to your own country if you do not like it". My freedom is to be in Thailand with freedom of movement since I am legally here.

Songkran has become a disaster for the country with people dying in road accidents due to many factors, and others overindulging in drinking, drugs and whatever else. It is a pity that I and many other farangs have to virtually lock ourselves into our residence, or be forced to take trips outside the country or to more peaceful areas inside the country in order to escape all of this supposed celebration.

Crikey, its only 3 days once a year! And its only water (OK, with a bit of brighening powder if you're lucky and the odd ice cube).

In my area of Bangkok, which is almost devoid of other farangs, people who didnt want to get wet seemed to be left alone. Those with water pistols or scoops were fair game. Fair enough! It was all quite respectful - old people and those not interested stayed dry. And a farang taking part was treated with genuine delight which was very refreshing after the usual looks I get the rest of the time. The tourist traps like Khao San Rd etc are different but why would you want to go there anyway?

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[Nautilus05]

One of the things I have always appreciated about Thailand is the very polite nature of the people, but during Songkran, this all seems to be put aside and anyone can do anything to anyone without their permission at all.

You've completely missed the point of Songkran. Think of it as a bonding ritual, but instead of just a family bonding around the dinner table, it's for the entirety of Thai society. And like it or not, it works, and it works well. Get out of the farang ghettos, go to any normal area / city in Thailand, and you'll see nothing except people having the time of their lives -- smiling, laughing, giggling, throwing water around, and having a blast.

For a simple 3 days every year, Thais put aside all the petty bullshit that consumes day-to-day lives. People from all creeds and walks of life get together on the streets of their country, and bring in the New Year with their fellow countrymen. Think of it as a yearly rejuvenation process for society, and like it or not, it does actually help things. Everything gets forgotten for 3 days, while everyone rejoices in humanity and the love of their country.

Aside from the tourist areas who've somewhat perverted it, I think Songkran is nothing but beneficial, and have never experienced an entire nation bond like that before. It's somewhat really nice to see in this crazy, cold world of ours if you ask me.

Besides, is it really a big deal to stock up for a few days? I didn't bother participating this year either, so I went shopping on the 12th, and haven't left home yet. Still have loads of food, whiskey, dog treats, and everything else. Got my TV, music, computer, dogs, nice patio to enjoy a beer, good food to cook, etc. Was hardly a horrible time or anything. Or if you're stuck in some shitty apartment, maybe think about upgrading to a nicer place to live.

Some of you guys I'll never understand though.

"Bloody Thais are protesting in Bangkok again! Crazy, corrupt country can never get their stuff together!"

"Look! The Thais are rejoicing and embracing humanity! This sucks, and should end!"

There's just no winning...

Edited April 15, 2014 by Nautilus05

[johndudorn]

Obviously population density, traffic density and much lower number of tourists then but images in the 1950's show a pretty active party then too.

At Nawarat bridge - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/detail_picturelanna.php?picture_id=583

More archive photos at cmu library - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails_cate.php?cate_id=15

Songkran then and now - Songkran myths

It was a quiet and respectful celebration!

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

I was stationed at Udon Thani in the 70's and have a home there... I think it was the GI's that turned it into a water fight not a respectful occasion.

[Jingthing]

Only three days? I wish!

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[BanTamo]

Once the cranky white pensioners presumed themselves welcome and the government failed to intervene the gloves came off.

[Tywais]

Obviously population density, traffic density and much lower number of tourists then but images in the 1950's show a pretty active party then too.

At Nawarat bridge - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/detail_picturelanna.php?picture_id=583

More archive photos at cmu library - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails_cate.php?cate_id=15

Songkran then and now - Songkran myths

It was a quiet and respectful celebration!

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

I was stationed at Udon Thani in the 70's and have a home there... I think it was the GI's that turned it into a water fight not a respectful occasion.

If you check through the photos from the '50s and '60s you will see very few foreigners in them and all Thai's having a go at each other. Most of those shown are in Chiang Mai where there were no GI's stationed. BTW, I was stationed at Utapao in the late 60's and only remember some mild water activity, but that was Sattihip where things were more traditional.

[phuketandsee]

I am so damn fed up of idiots who keep complaining about people complaining, surely your complaining about people complaining is also complaining so you are just as bad ? And if people want to complain then what the hell is wrong with that ? Let them. Just stop reading it and move along if it really bothers you that much...

But you are complaining about people complaining about people complaining. So are you also just as bad?

I'm not complaining by the way

[dennisrobertpell]

And Christmas in the west.........................

[Sctrppl]

Lived in mostly farang-free areas of Bkk and various bans in Esan beginning '67. It was always crazy. Fire trucks cruising the sois, zapping all within range. The alcohol craziness came later, with the huge influx of tourists.

[Nautilus05]

Only three days? I wish!

No idea where you live, but in most places, it's exactly 3 days. I've been in Khon Kaen for several years now, and it's always exactly 3 days. I guess on the 12th there's a few little kids out front of mom & pop shops throwing a bit of water around, but that's about it. Then guaranteed tomorrow (the 16th) when I go into town, there won't be a single bucket of water being thrown around.

I won't even know Songkran happened this year. My only indication is that I basically had the entire subdivision to myself for the past three days. Everyone else took off to the villages I'm assuming to see their families.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Nautilus05

[HardenedSoul]

Only three days? I wish!

No idea where you live, but in most places, it's exactly 3 days. I've been in Khon Kaen for several years now, and it's always exactly 3 days. I guess on the 12th there's a few little kids out front of mom & pop shops throwing a bit of water around, but that's about it. Then guaranteed tomorrow (the 16th) when I go into town, there won't be a single bucket of water being thrown around.

Same here in Asoke.

Maybe he lives in Pattaya.

Well they do need more washing down there

[Donnievino]

My girlfriend posted hundreds of pictures and videos on Facebok of Songkran from her village near Sakon Nakhon. Seemed very beautiful, peaceful and fun. plan to be there next year.

[stevoboy]

Should change the name of this forum to moaningoldmen.com

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[hgma]

I got wet, ears splashed nd filled with water.

Got stopped by a intoxicated man, who wanted to speak english

Then powdered by his friends,my kids where screaming 'fun'......

This year however new gimmicks are added

ICE cold water

Stinking(and i mean stinking!!) water

water mixed with real (red) paint

but never mind....what bothers me every year is that the roads are blocked and in case my family has an emergency like 4 years ago, it is hell!!

getting into a hospital is impossible.

enjoy songkkan in a responsible way!

old?

Edited April 15, 2014 by hgma

[GeorgeO]

Surprise, surprise, my 18yr old step son and at least a couple of his mates have avoided the mayhem this year. They say it doesn't feel the same . Perhaps they're growing up, or maybe it has more to do with the obvious presence of the local BIB getting tough on underage drinking. One for the BIB.

It may just be that they don't like the rising trend in both deaths and injuries and prefer to stay away from speeding motorcycles driven by drunken idiots on wet roads.

edit to add title of another thread:

Songkran holiday toll: 204 deaths, 2,142 injuries; 43 more die on third day

Edited April 16, 2014 by GeorgeO

[Datebayo]

Answer: Pattaya

case closed

[simondan]

I got wet, ears splashed nd filled with water.

Got stopped by a intoxicated man, who wanted to speak english

Then powdered by his friends,my kids where screaming 'fun'......

This year however new gimmicks are added

ICE cold water

Stinking(and i mean stinking!!) water

water mixed with real (red) paint

but never mind....what bothers me every year is that the roads are blocked and in case my family has an emergency like 4 years ago, it is hell!!

getting into a hospital is impossible.

enjoy songkkan in a responsible way!

old?

Do you mean water soluble paint or something thats permanent like an acryllic?

Surely if an insoluble paint is thrown over people, Thai or falang, the thrower is going to get seriously assaulted very quickly (rightly so). If its water soluble its not so bad I guess.

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[JSPS]

The thing to remember is that your average Thai is ready to celebrate Tuesday if it means a party. Songkran simply combines ancient Thai superstitions together with the sanction of the Buddhist holiday into a huge seven day party. It's like combining New Years with Carnival, Mardi Gras and Fasching with a pinch of Halloween and the 4th of July. It is every Thai citizen's duty to party for seven straight days. Even if not drinking you must throw water on others by any method. Back in the 1960's the American GIs would take the pump fire extinguishers from their wooden hootches and put them in the back of 3/4 ton trucks and rig the canvas bed covers so they could pull them back with ropes. Then they would drive slowly through town with only the driver showing. This usually resulted in the truck being mobbed by people throwing water. Then the cover got pulled off and the GIs in the back of the trucks would pump madly spraying everyone in range. It was all in good fun and the GIs usually ended up at parties with a bunch of Thais.

I fondly remember Sonkran in the 1960s and 70s. I ended up at a lot of parties with a lot of people. We had one thing in common. I spoke Thai badly and they spoke English badly.

Great fun.

[dighambara]

In the 60's, it was a much milder celebration, often a simple splash on the hands at the entrance to a business - even bars.

Thus, I suspect it was the vibrance of the hundreds off thousands of American Gis (soldiers, sailors & airmen) who visited and were stationed here throughtout the 60's & 70's.

One side point - in 1966 - 69, on average, more Thai people spoke English than do today.

[Rorri]

Jip99, on 14 Apr 2014 - 18:22, said:

northernjohn, on 14 Apr 2014 - 17:05, said:

I think a better more accurate question would be when did a Ex Pat decide that there was some thing wrong with what has obviously been going on for years and as the population and tourism grow it has grown.

So it was an expat, was it, who extended Songkran in Pattaya to 11th - 19th April ?

I learn something new every day.

Your reasoning fails me, was something deleted from northernjohn's comment, because I fail to tie what you say, to what he has said.

[Rorri]

HardenedSoul, on 14 Apr 2014 - 22:13, said:

Jip99, on 14 Apr 2014 - 22:09, said:

HardenedSoul, on 14 Apr 2014 - 21:54, said:

Hmm didn't realise one had to be a member for a minimum period before expressing distaste at the sense of entitlement displayed by some of our more curmudgeonly members.

I mean, what could be more annoying than the old "cold towel" lament?

You know the one. When the sweaty hippo in safari shorts and sandals would enter a bar and expect to be waited on hand and foot by a young nubile who would wipe the sweat off the pock-marked, blubbery expanse that was his back with an ice-cold flannel before massaging his shoulders and his ego in return for the princely sum of 50 baht. Fat chance of that these days.

All I can say is "Roll on, progress".

I support anything that gets these people into better jobs away from the "industry"

.... and you needed a Songkran thread to make that rant ?

Wouldn't it have been worse to actually create an entirely new thread about it?

I think you're getting old and grumpy....now where do I find a young nubile to wipe the sweat off my pock-marked, blubbery expanse that is my back with an ice-cold flannel before massaging my shoulders and my ego, for 50baht.

[Rorri]

MobileContent, on 15 Apr 2014 - 19:24, said:

I got soaked on the 1st ad 2nd day Songkran. Went to the Wat and we tambon 1500 Baht and also had our water spanking ceremony with my inlaws and my granny.

After this we went out for two days none-stop and I am looking forward for next year.

Water spanking... now that's something I've never tried.

[Rorri]

tingtongteesood, on 15 Apr 2014 - 20:32, said:tingtongteesood, on 15 Apr 2014 - 20:32, said:

I am so damn fed up of idiots who keep complaining about people complaining, surely your complaining about people complaining is also complaining so you are just as bad ? And if people want to complain then what the hell is wrong with that ? Let them. Just stop reading it and move along if it really bothers you that much...

I'm complaining about you complaining about other people complaining, so please stop complaining, let those who want to complain, complain, just do not read them. Everyone has a right to their personal opinion. A Thai friend said only on Monday, she wished the young Thais wouldn't dance in the streets and to stop throwing water, because her car gets wet, so it's not only TV members that complain. Most Thais don't have much in their lives, let them have their 3, 5 or 7 days of fun..

Edited April 16, 2014 by Rorri

[oldsailor35]

The water throwing is alright, everybody having fun, if one does not like it, then stay at home. However the habit of targeting a persons face is so prevalent and especially dangerous to motor cyclist who will become temporary blind. I did notice that all those with water guns made it a point to hit their victims fare in the face. This should be stopped especially with motorcyclist. I went out on my motorcy, had no choice, but put on a rain cape and used full face visor, no one bothered to target me for the whole 10 klm journey !

[Rorri]

oldsailor35, on 16 Apr 2014 - 11:29, said:

The water throwing is alright, everybody having fun, if one does not like it, then stay at home. However the habit of targeting a persons face is so prevalent and especially dangerous to motor cyclist who will become temporary blind. I did notice that all those with water guns made it a point to hit their victims fare in the face. This should be stopped especially with motorcyclist. I went out on my motorcy, had no choice, but put on a rain cape and used full face visor, no one bothered to target me for the whole 10 klm journey !

Do what I do, wear swimming, not diving, goggles, looks strange but saves the eyes.