How/when did songkran evolve from a respectful holiday to the rude mayhem that it is today?

[thailiketoo]

When the young drunk male foreigners began to travel here

I believe that was the Portuguese in 1511.

[tim armstrong]

Surprise, surprise, my 18yr old step son and at least a couple of his mates have avoided the mayhem this year. They say it doesn't feel the same . Perhaps they're growing up, or maybe it has more to do with the obvious presence of the local BIB getting tough on underage drinking. One for the BIB.

[samran]

More images here from the '50s - http://siamesevisions.blogspot.com/2011/05/songkran.html

My impression was there was always an element of water fight to it. So what has changed?

- piped water to many corners of the kingdom

- mains pressure

- plastic buckets

- and more recently, excellent water pistols.

[TheWizardofRnR]

I would say the real change came with the arrival of the Water Pistols , Water cannons and Magic mushroom eating mammals in the mid 1980s!

[Sheryl]

I would say the real change came with the arrival of the Water Pistols , Water cannons and Magic mushroom eating mammals in the mid 1980s!

They started to come in the late 60's/early 70's.....

[davidst01]

you sound precious. Maybe you should go back to the miserable country you come from and complain about local culture there

[Bignose]

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I am sick to death of people like you constantly telling people on this site to go home.

There is nothing wrong with discussing the idiosyncrasies and cultural differences of life here in Thailand. People come to sites like this to get advice, to vent emotion and share opinions.

I think your opinion is worth less than what i scraped of my shoe this morning, so do everyone in here a favor and keep it to yourself.

Sick to death of these whining idiots moan moan moan about everything and everyone. Exchange rate, when one got a cold towel given when entering a bar, how the good old days arent the same anymore, prices of large bottles of beer and the tip of the iceberg Songkran and any other festivity that revolves around fun.

It really is time to go home once ones life becomes a continual display of grumbling and protesting.

No wonder so many marriages fail here who would want to live with someone like that day in and day out. alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20>

Couldn't have put it better myself...as stated previously people post here for a variety of reasons. To subsequently be instructed to "Go Home" by someone ranting about failed marriages just because they have expressed an opinion is beyond me.

Methinks too many people spend too much time on their computer looking for someone to dump on, perhaps a couple of chill pills or a small bottle of tolerance would be of use to you...

[northernjohn]

Sick to death of these whining idiots

It really is time to go home once ones life becomes a continual display of grumbling and protesting.

Hmmmmmmm. Great 3rd post. Puts new meaning into the old college refrain: "Go Ugly Early"

True great post for his 8th post.

 

 
Members

8 posts


Posted Yesterday, 21:24 
POPULAR

Sick to death of these whining idiots moan moan moan about everything and 
everyone. Exchange rate, when one got a cold towel given when entering a bar, 
how the good old days arent the same anymore, prices of large bottles of beer 
and the tip of the iceberg Songkran and any other festivity that revolves around 
fun.

It really is time to go home once ones life becomes a continual display of 
grumbling and protesting.

No wonder so many marriages fail here who would want to live with someone 
like that day in and day out. 

I took the liberty to post his entire post. Just goes to show it doesn't take long for some people to spot the perpetual whiners.

[LawrenceN]

My first Songkran was in 1977 in Chainat during Peace Corps training. Because we were in training, our handlers arranged for us to go to a public ceremony in which Buddha images were washed and elders' hands washed as well. Then everyone threw water and got soaked.

By the way, this morning, I went to a ceremony at Wat Chedi Sa-than in Mae Rim (Chiang Mai) which concluded with washing Buddha images. Very little has changed, as the photos above show.

[techboy]

Hmm didn't realise one had to be a member for a minimum period before expressing distaste at the sense of entitlement displayed by some of our more curmudgeonly members.

I mean, what could be more annoying than the old "cold towel" lament?

You know the one. When the sweaty hippo in safari shorts and sandals would enter a bar and expect to be waited on hand and foot by a young nubile who would wipe the sweat off the pock-marked, blubbery expanse that was his back with an ice-cold flannel before massaging his shoulders and his ego in return for the princely sum of 50 baht. Fat chance of that these days.

All I can say is "Roll on, progress".

I support anything that gets these people into better jobs away from the "industry"

.... and you needed a Songkran thread to make that rant ?

Rant? Apparently you don't know what one is. It was a great inspired response. Also, case you have not noticed this forum is liberal with tangential commentary. You are acting like a "curmudgeonly members" and in this case playing the "rant card" because you don't like the post.

[northernjohn]

I would say the real change came with the arrival of the Water Pistols , Water cannons and Magic mushroom eating mammals in the mid 1980s!

They started to come in the late 60's/early 70's.....

Well according to the one picture It was here in the 50's I have seen others from the same era. I suspect it started after the world war 2.

[phuketandsee]

My first was in 1974 and it was pretty much like it is today except for the chunks of ice I've read about (but not experienced). The large water pistols were around then too. I was pushed into the hotel pool fully dressed but didn't get a look at who by.

I walked around Kamala on Sunday and it was great. A really nice atmosphere with the old ladies being quite respectful and wanting to put only a handful of water on me. I told them they should be able to do much better which produced screams of laughter. It was great to see the kids faces also and the farrangs weren't going crazy. Then of course I wasn't in Patong.

My only regret was the bar girls were not wearing white tee shirts.

[techboy]

What can be said? You have defined the festival in terms that not everyone would agree with so an answer is not necessarily available.

[empireboy]

Well, according to what I heard from my Thai friends, the sprinkling of water is not for showing respet to the elthers but to wash buddha and to bless one each other.

yes well with so many Buddah statues sitting out in the elements an annual was is probably a good idea

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Sick to death of these whining idiots moan moan moan about everything and everyone. Exchange rate, when one got a cold towel given when entering a bar, how the good old days arent the same anymore, prices of large bottles of beer and the tip of the iceberg Songkran and any other festivity that revolves around fun.

It really is time to go home once ones life becomes a continual display of grumbling and protesting.

No wonder so many marriages fail here who would want to live with someone like that day in and day out.

You're missing a couple of key points. This is not about unhappy farangs.

This is about:

--the throwing of water (buckets full) and shooting water guns at passing drivers and motorcyclists, causing and contributing to the injuries and fatalities on the roads. There's absolutely no reason or justification for it, it's just plain dangerous.

--simple manners and consideration (or complete lack thereof). As I was coming home in a taxi today, Thais and farangs on the streets were throwing buckets of water on passersby. They weren't asking. They were just doing it. If someone wants to go out and play water, that's fine. But if someone has things to do, work or otherwise, and wants to stay dry, they ought to be able to do so without having to stay home for most of a week. Unfortunately, there's too many people, Thai and farang alike, who simply don't respect the wishes of those around them.

The first issue is dangerous. The second issue is simply rude and inconsiderate.

[thailiketoo]

Sick to death of these whining idiots moan moan moan about everything and everyone. Exchange rate, when one got a cold towel given when entering a bar, how the good old days arent the same anymore, prices of large bottles of beer and the tip of the iceberg Songkran and any other festivity that revolves around fun.

It really is time to go home once ones life becomes a continual display of grumbling and protesting.

No wonder so many marriages fail here who would want to live with someone like that day in and day out.

You're missing a couple of key points. This is not about unhappy farangs.

This is about:

--the throwing of water (buckets full) and shooting water guns at passing drivers and motorcyclists, causing and contributing to the injuries and fatalities on the roads. There's absolutely no reason or justification for it, it's just plain dangerous.

--simple manners and consideration (or complete lack thereof). As I was coming home in a taxi today, Thais and farangs on the streets were throwing buckets of water on passersby. They weren't asking. They were just doing it. If someone wants to go out and play water, that's fine. But if someone has things to do, work or otherwise, and wants to stay dry, they ought to be able to do so without having to stay home for most of a week. Unfortunately, there's too many people, Thai and farang alike, who simply don't respect the wishes of those around them.

The first issue is dangerous. The second issue is simply rude and inconsiderate.

I agree with you but to say that you are not an unhappy Farang would not be correct.

[samuijimmy]

I saw yesterday for the first time, the respectful way it should be done..... to parents and grandparents by their children....

I can only say, that at least on Samui for the most part, the event only lasts one day (or less depending on area) and in my opinion is quite a fun event.... easy to avoid if one really wants to.

I realize that is not the case in some areas of Thailand, where perhaps it is out of hand....

[Jingthing]

Perhaps.

[NoshowJones]

Hmm didn't realise one had to be a member for a minimum period before expressing distaste at the sense of entitlement displayed by some of our more curmudgeonly members.

I mean, what could be more annoying than the old "cold towel" lament?

You know the one. When the sweaty hippo in safari shorts and sandals would enter a bar and expect to be waited on hand and foot by a young nubile who would wipe the sweat off the pock-marked, blubbery expanse that was his back with an ice-cold flannel before massaging his shoulders and his ego in return for the princely sum of 50 baht. Fat chance of that these days.

All I can say is "Roll on, progress".

I support anything that gets these people into better jobs away from the "industry"

.... and you needed a Songkran thread to make that rant ?

HS. Why are you so anxious to get people away from the "industry"? The "industry" as you call it does no one any harm, no one is forced to go to the bars and take girls, it's a matter of choice, and anyone has the right to do, or go where they want as long as no one is harmed. Unlike Songcran.

[Torrens54]

More images here from the '50s - http://siamesevisions.blogspot.com/2011/05/songkran.html

The above was before "my time" here but I think the Volume of Water and the numbers chucking buckets, using pressure hoses etc., has just increased over the years.

I first saw it in the early 1980s, so that's 30+ years ago and it was getting fairly volatile then, mainly thanks to the Ferang being encouraged to take part. These days of course, it is simply out of hand. My teenage daughter thinks I'm an old "stick in the mud" so give it another decade or so and the whole thing could evolve into a major "swim through" and the more the Ferang with bellies full of fire-water" get involved, the sooner that "Stupidity will Reign Supreme."

[Greg Nixon]

Generally speaking Song Krahn is a good custom. Washing or cleaning of the past to start out afresh. Significance of water in many cultures and religions. Water is of course the sustainer of all life and life on earth began in water. So to wash away the old year and start fresh in the New year is a good idea.

My only objection is when the practise becomes hazardous to the participants. Alcohol, running onto the road and little children make this practice dangerous to some. If one stays in areas designated for pedestrians such as sidewalks or roped off roads with the police present hazards can be minimized. I have witnessed that, this year.

Country side roads where children get too exuberant can lead them to forget everything including their safety.

By all means splash water but do so in safety.

[doodly]

I always try and look at things symbolically and Thailand and Songkran spells out to me "FREEDOM" in its purest form , show me another civilised country that tops this ? The rest of the world has chains round its ankles

[kennypowers]

Funny how for some it's okay to regularly get drunk as a skunk, practically fall out of a bar with a hooker half your age in tow holding your sacred last Chang, get into a taxi and make stupid jokes with the taxi driver like "ooh isn't she suuway mak mak...hmmm thai lady very sexy" and then wake everyone up on the floor of your apartment block as you continue groping your catch in the hallway, but as soon as they get a little bit of water thrown at them by a teenager having fun in his/her country, on his/her New Year holiday, celebrating his/her culture, there's all kinds of moaning.

Oh how the conquerer doth cower when his whip hand is tied for a few days.

Edited April 15, 2014 by kennypowers

[janpharma]

I only see a bunch of drunken idiots....don't you?

[fonsboy]

When the young drunk male foreigners began to travel here

Agree 100% , my introduction to this `festive ` display was about 10yrs ago in Pattaya , Drunken , mindless young westerners , buckets of water filled with ice-cubes , & something like a bike pump that force out pressurised water . I love to go out on the bike twice a day , 6 am & 4 pm but the afternoon ride is a no , no this week . still one week per year I can manage that .

[Nautilus05]

I always try and look at things symbolically and Thailand and Songkran spells out to me "FREEDOM" in its purest form , show me another civilised country that tops this ? The rest of the world has chains round its ankles

Ditto. I didn't bother going out this year, as just wasn't up for it. Went out all the previous years though, and always had a great time. Have to admit, Songkran almost tops my list for liberating experiences. It's great.

[thailiketoo]

Funny how for some it's okay to regularly get drunk as a skunk, practically fall out of a bar with a hooker half your age in tow holding your sacred last Chang, get into a taxi and make stupid jokes with the taxi driver like "ooh isn't she suuway mak mak...hmmm thai lady very sexy" and then wake everyone up on the floor of your apartment block as you continue groping your catch in the hallway, but as soon as they get a little bit of water thrown at them by a teenager having fun in his/her country, on his/her New Year holiday, celebrating his/her culture, there's all kinds of moaning.

Oh how the conquerer doth cower when his whip hand is tied for a few days.

Kenny I think it is the poisoned ice water launched at a moving motorcycle by a middle aged Farang hooligan with the intent to cause serious bodily harm that causes the discomfort more than the little bit of water thrown my the Thai teen.

[MobileContent]

I got soaked on the 1st ad 2nd day Songkran. Went to the Wat and we tambon 1500 Baht and also had our water spanking ceremony with my inlaws and my granny.

After this we went out for two days none-stop and I am looking forward for next year.

[Stan7444]

Obviously population density, traffic density and much lower number of tourists then but images in the 1950's show a pretty active party then too.

At Nawarat bridge - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/detail_picturelanna.php?picture_id=583

More archive photos at cmu library - http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails_cate.php?cate_id=15

Songkran then and now - Songkran myths

It was a quiet and respectful celebration!

Yes, it sure was quiet back then.

Just look at this absolutely beautiful picture; brings a tear to your eyes doesn't it..!

Grandma and granddad having a go at each other, 50 years on you can almost still hear the noise of that scene!

This post and the photos linked to therein should be pinned as a lesson to all the whinging grumps who bitch about a tradition that - in stark contrast to what these clowns have read - evidently was NOT limited to the respectful pouring of water over the hands.

I think much of the hostility towards Songkran on TV forums is lies in the mentality these people have

For them, it's far less about the road fatalities and "lack of respect" than it is about "I've retired; I want peace and quiet"

No.

it is about excesses.

It is truly about not only excess but the forceful and aggressive behavior on the part of anyone who thinks they can assault another person, be it a frang, Thai or Asian, with water or any other substance. People have a right to enjoy freedom to walk on the street as a tourist or resident without being forced to participate in some local craziness.

If people wish to participate, then they have a right to so do in areas which have the water fights and other activities.

If a tourist or other resident wishes to walk wearing nice clothes on the way to a local restaurant for a dinner with their wife or friend, nobody has the legal or moral right to dump water on them and spoil their clothing and consequently their night out.

One of the things I have always appreciated about Thailand is the very polite nature of the people, but during Songkran, this all seems to be put aside and anyone can do anything to anyone without their permission at all.

I respect other cultures and beliefs but I do not accept everybody should "adapt" and "accept" some other national cultural event as their own in spite of living or traveling in another country. Do we go to Spain and run with the bulls since other people wish to risk their lives? If we were in the US do Americans expect us to participate in the 4th July or in the Guy Fawkes celebrations in the UK? Nobody visiting any country should be subjected to being "forces" to participate in any local celebration. If the Thais wish to do it, then they can without disturbing the peace and tranquility of others who wish not to participate. In many countries this is called Freedom of Choice, and it is not acceptable for people to say "go back to your own country if you do not like it". My freedom is to be in Thailand with freedom of movement since I am legally here.

Songkran has become a disaster for the country with people dying in road accidents due to many factors, and others overindulging in drinking, drugs and whatever else. It is a pity that I and many other farangs have to virtually lock ourselves into our residence, or be forced to take trips outside the country or to more peaceful areas inside the country in order to escape all of this supposed celebration.

[HardenedSoul]

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HS. Why are you so anxious to get people away from the "industry"? The "industry" as you call it does no one any harm, no one is forced to go to the bars and take girls, it's a matter of choice, and anyone has the right to do, or go where they want as long as no one is harmed. Unlike Songcran.

I don't give a toss about the punters; I'm talking about the women who until recently, would have headed for work in one of the establishments used by the common or garden sexpatriate.

I am delighted there are more jobs in which these women can make enough money without having to go with strangers.

I am delighted the prices have been jacked up and have priced at least a few people out of the market

To suggest that no harm is done is just plain disingenuous and I won't waste my time explaining why

It is truly about not only excess but the forceful and aggressive behavior on the part of anyone who thinks they can assault another person, be it a frang, Thai or Asian, with water or any other substance. People have a right to enjoy freedom to walk on the street as a tourist or resident without being forced to participate in some local craziness.

If people wish to participate, then they have a right to so do in areas which have the water fights and other activities.

If a tourist or other resident wishes to walk wearing nice clothes on the way to a local restaurant for a dinner with their wife or friend, nobody has the legal or moral right to dump water on them and spoil their clothing and consequently their night out.

One of the things I have always appreciated about Thailand is the very polite nature of the people, but during Songkran, this all seems to be put aside and anyone can do anything to anyone without their permission at all.

I respect other cultures and beliefs but I do not accept everybody should "adapt" and "accept" some other national cultural event as their own in spite of living or traveling in another country. Do we go to Spain and run with the bulls since other people wish to risk their lives? If we were in the US do Americans expect us to participate in the 4th July or in the Guy Fawkes celebrations in the UK? Nobody visiting any country should be subjected to being "forces" to participate in any local celebration. If the Thais wish to do it, then they can without disturbing the peace and tranquility of others who wish not to participate. In many countries this is called Freedom of Choice, and it is not acceptable for people to say "go back to your own country if you do not like it". My freedom is to be in Thailand with freedom of movement since I am legally here.

Songkran has become a disaster for the country with people dying in road accidents due to many factors, and others overindulging in drinking, drugs and whatever else. It is a pity that I and many other farangs have to virtually lock ourselves into our residence, or be forced to take trips outside the country or to more peaceful areas inside the country in order to escape all of this supposed celebration.

Nonsense

You can choose to run with the bulls in Spain;

You can choose to celebrate the 4th July in the US

You can choose to partake in Guy Fawkes night in Britain

Similarly, you can choose to walk down a street in Thailand on the 2 or 3 days of the entire year when you will almost certainly have water thrown at you.

The rights you allude to don't exist here and you bloody well knew that before you rocked up. Every word of that diatribe has its roots in political correctness and nannying - two of the things you were probably dying to get away from in your homeland yet here you are bitching about a little water.

Get a life or get a plane.