Londoners say Western media unfairly demonizes Russia over Ukraine - poll

[rickirs]

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Anyone have a legit reaon why Russia was justified to schematically enter/ control and overtake a foreign land? Is this not what they did?

There are many reasons, but the main reason is because the US government decided

to interfere, and schematically backed the overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected government. Followed by them hand selecting their own cronies of neo fascists to replace.

The US had no role in overthrowing the Elected Ukrainian government. The Ukrainian President Yanukovych was impeached by the elected Parliament that included votes for impeachment by Yanukovych's own party in accordance to its constitution. The bipartisan Parliament then elected an interim President in accordance to its constitution, and scheduled new elections of Parliament and President in accordance to its constitution. Putin is worried such an election (now that Crimea will not be participating) will damage his continued plans for annexing more Ukraine lands and desires the instigation of a civil war to prevent any Ukrainian national unity. Putin will only allow Ukrainian elections when he can control the outcome.

[rickirs]

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US Secretary of State James Baker promised not to expand NATO "as much as a thumb's width further to the East" (than Germany) Lies.

The then U.S. ambassador in Moscow, Jack Matlock, that said, "We gave categorical assurances to Gorbachev back when the Soviet Union existed that if a united Germany was able to stay in NATO, NATO would not be moved eastward." (In to what was East Germany).

But shortly afterward James Baker met with Mr. Gorbachev in Moscow to reiterate Matlock's statement, the Bush administration within hours of Baker's meeting with Gorbachev reversed its policy that would provide for expansion of NATO into East Germany as soon as the Soviet army vacated it. Since that time almost all the members (ie., Eastern Europe) of the Soviet Warsaw Pact have become members of NATO. So no lies, just reversal of foreign policy.

Your remarks are irrelevant in any case. Ukraine was never offered nor was it contemplated (then) for membership in NATO. With Russia's invasion of Crimea and open interest in goerning Eastern Ukraine, Putin might actually cause NATO members to push for Ukraine's membership.

[Shurup]

Nobody can stop Russia. Who England France and German never If they are waiting for Obama just wait he will never do and America will never fight away

Remember who got the peace prize.

American people do their best work when they get disrespected and under-estimated.

Are American people the World Police or something? They seem to forget where their borders are drawn on the world map.

I've read a lot of news and from different news agencies with different points of view, the one that made sense to me mentioned that the Ukrainian government was overthrown with support from the Western powers, US in particular, as soon as the thugs declared themselves the new Ukrainian government, US was right there to offer the financial help in millions if not billions of $$$ (don't remember the exact figure but it is not a point). Basically the situation was coming to the Ukrainian "government" becoming a puppet of the US of A. There are military bases in pretty much all of the US "partner" countries so the same was to be expected with Ukraine.

If anyone thinks the Russia will allow the US presence in any of their neighboring countries, they kid themselves.

Does anyone remember what ALMOST happened when USSR attempted to place some of their weapons in one of the Communist countries during the cold war? We could be heading into the same situation and I hope it doesn't happen. US needs to bugger off and let the involved countries figure out the best course of action, period.

And for those who might wonder - no I'm not Russian, yes I don't like many of the US's external affairs policies, no I don't necessarily agree with what's going on between Russia and Ukraine.

[sotsira]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Anyone have a legit reaon why Russia was justified to schematically enter/ control and overtake a foreign land? Is this not what they did?

There are many reasons, but the main reason is because the US government decided

to interfere, and schematically backed the overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected government. Followed by them hand selecting their own cronies of neo fascists to replace.

The US had no role in overthrowing the Elected Ukrainian government. The Ukrainian President Yanukovych was impeached by the elected Parliament that included votes for impeachment by Yanukovych's own party in accordance to its constitution. The bipartisan Parliament then elected an interim President in accordance to its constitution, and scheduled new elections of Parliament and President in accordance to its constitution. Putin is worried such an election (now that Crimea will not be participating) will damage his continued plans for annexing more Ukraine lands and desires the instigation of a civil war to prevent any Ukrainian national unity. Putin will only allow Ukrainian elections when he can control the outcome.

Really!

Well, maybe you can explain this:

Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt scheming to influence political events in Ukraine, a country with a democratic government.

[hard124get]

Baker promised not to move NATO east, Gorby signed, US changed policy and went back on their promise, and this is not a lie? Have you ever thought about a career in politics?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[aTomsLife]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Anyone have a legit reaon why Russia was justified to schematically enter/ control and overtake a foreign land? Is this not what they did?

There are many reasons, but the main reason is because the US government decided

to interfere, and schematically backed the overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected government. Followed by them hand selecting their own cronies of neo fascists to replace.

The US had no role in overthrowing the Elected Ukrainian government. The Ukrainian President Yanukovych was impeached by the elected Parliament that included votes for impeachment by Yanukovych's own party in accordance to its constitution. The bipartisan Parliament then elected an interim President in accordance to its constitution, and scheduled new elections of Parliament and President in accordance to its constitution. Putin is worried such an election (now that Crimea will not be participating) will damage his continued plans for annexing more Ukraine lands and desires the instigation of a civil war to prevent any Ukrainian national unity. Putin will only allow Ukrainian elections when he can control the outcome.

Really!

Well, maybe you can explain this:

Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt scheming to influence political events in Ukraine, a country with a democratic government.

Government was already in the process of being overthrown. U.S. was racing to occupy the power vacuum that was being created. They wanted to get U.S.-friendly politicians in place. I'm not saying that's right. Frankly, I wish my government would get its own house in order.

But there's a big difference between implementing an overthrow on behalf of one's government, and rushing to stabilize a situation in favor of one's own government.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Scott

[wwest5829]

Anyone have a legit reaon why Russia was justified to schematically enter/ control and overtake a foreign land? Is this not what they did?

No, its not. The elected government was illegally thrown out by a western-backed mob, even though they were offered early elections. The mob declared the Russian language to be illegal. What do you expect Russian speaking people to do ? There was therefore no constitution to adhere to.

The west split up Yugoslavia, and further split Bosnia, it is backing the independence of Kosovo. Hypocrisy

You have a short memory and seem to portray matters rather simply. If you condemn the west for splitting up Yugoslavia, you dismiss the history of the west forming Yugoslavia as part of the Wilson promotion of self determination following WW I. That can also be critized if you wish but deal with the complicated history of self determination rather than condemning bits and pieces. You would justify Russia's unilateral use of troops but condemn the demand for self determination in the Bosnian debacle? I cannot agree.

[Shurup]

...

Also, Putin now insists that Europe and the Ukraine pay for Russian gas with a currency other than the US dollar – this seals the fate of the petrodollar.

...

That is a good comeback for the US and the EU economic sanctions threats.

[BadBouy]

"I feel that he’s been demonized and I feel that perhaps it’s slightly unfair. I would like to see some media coverage that is less biased,"

It's about a media that takes sides and is now seen as biased by many. Journalism is about getting at the truth not the truth the media supports. No one side is always right or wrong, too often different points of view are not considered. Media is often guilty of omition. If you get your news from one source you are not getting all the facts. It is sad the media has lost the confidence of many people.

I miss Tim Rusert, did his research and asked everyone tough questions, if your from the US you probably understand where I'm coming from.

[hard124get]

OK, so Crimea was practicing Wilson's promotion of self determination. You can't have it both ways !!

[hard124get]

I doubt you will hear an explanation, cos there isn't one. I declare you the winner , by knockout !

[F430murci]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

[thailiketoo]

I can see how Europeans or Londoners would be concerned with the similarities between the Ukraine and Austria.

I'm surprised the people who did the survey of 10 or so people didn't ask about it. A Russian philosophy professor says he is being forced from his job at a prestigious state university after comparing Moscow's actions in Ukraine with **** Germany's annexation of Austria in 1938.

I could be wrong though. Does anyone know how many people were queried in the survey?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-professor-idUSBREA231SX20140304

[Scott]

Posts deleted for a variety of reasons, including only using quotes with no response, questionable sources and off-topic posts and replies.

[Exsexyman]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

It is not a case of "silly blame the West stuff". Not once in your posts on this topic have you addressed the leaked pone call between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador, or her speech in December standing in front of a Chevron banner in which she clearly states that the US have invested $5billion in bringing 'democracy' to Ukraine. This clearly shows that the US was deeply involved in the destabilisation and the overthrow of the legal, elected government in Ukraine. You just choose to ignore this because it is inconvenient. Today we have the announcement from NATO that they are going to increase their presence and increase their military capabilities right up to Russia's doorstep, in clear breech of the promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the cold war.The Russian response to this is entirely predictable, how would the US react if the boot was on the other foot and Russia 'invested' $5billion in say Mexico or a central American country, in an opposition group that was clearly hostile to US interests. To just ignore this and pretend that the US is entirely blameless for the present crisis in the Ukraine is at best naive, or at worst downright dishonest. And if you really believe that people in the Ukraine, especially in the South and East are not blaming the West for this you are in cloud cuckoo land. People are not stupid, thanks to the social media they can see what is going on, millions of people around the world will have seen the Nuland speech, and heard the phone call, which is why this survey in London would get the same results if repeated in cities all over the world. Again, people are not stupid. Presumably you believe that the $5billion was spent on the arts in Ukraine, and CIA director John Brennan just dropped in to check out the local beer!

[F430murci]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

It is not a case of "silly blame the West stuff". Not once in your posts on this topic have you addressed the leaked pone call between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador, or her speech in December standing in front of a Chevron banner in which she clearly states that the US have invested $5billion in bringing 'democracy' to Ukraine. This clearly shows that the US was deeply involved in the destabilisation and the overthrow of the legal, elected government in Ukraine. You just choose to ignore this because it is inconvenient. Today we have the announcement from NATO that they are going to increase their presence and increase their military capabilities right up to Russia's doorstep, in clear breech of the promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the cold war.The Russian response to this is entirely predictable, how would the US react if the boot was on the other foot and Russia 'invested' $5billion in say Mexico or a central American country, in an opposition group that was clearly hostile to US interests. To just ignore this and pretend that the US is entirely blameless for the present crisis in the Ukraine is at best naive, or at worst downright dishonest. And if you really believe that people in the Ukraine, especially in the South and East are not blaming the West for this you are in cloud cuckoo land. People are not stupid, thanks to the social media they can see what is going on, millions of people around the world will have seen the Nuland speech, and heard the phone call, which is why this survey in London would get the same results if repeated in cities all over the world. Again, people are not stupid. Presumably you believe that the $5billion was spent on the arts in Ukraine, and CIA director John Brennan just dropped in to check out the local beer!

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Flattering for you to presuppose that US or West has such vast influence, but West does not. The issues in Ukraine are very deep seeded issues in place long before any perceived Western involvement.

Again, about half of our social network in two different states in which we live is Ukrainians from both West and East. There is a very large Eastern European community in our home town in Florida and it is size able here in Nashville.

Western Ukrainians tension is with Russia. They don't blame the West.

Eastern Ukrainians that identify themselves as Russians tension is with ethnic and Eastern Ukrainians. They don't blame the West.

Only Putin, sensational media sources, and those with issues toward the US are still playing the blame the West card. It is a very convenient distraction.

I am fully aware of US's short comings and will gladly bash US when and where it is due. This is just not one of those times.

Edited April 17, 2014 by F430murci

[Pralaad]

" Londoners say Western media unfairly demonizes Russia ".........some French also feel the same way too

Marine Le Pen, opposes 'EU demonization of Russia'

http://www.sott.net/article/277380-Marine-Le-Pen-French-far-right-leader-opposes-EU-demonization-of-Russia

Funny enough so does German opposition leader, just to add to the list

[Shurup]

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Flattering for you to presuppose that US or West has such vast influence, but West does not. The issues in Ukraine are very deep seeded issues in place long before any perceived Western involvement.

Again, about half of our social network in two different states in which we live is Ukrainians from both West and East. There is a very large Eastern European community in our home town in Florida and it is size able here in Nashville.

Western Ukrainians tension is with Russia. They don't blame the West.

Eastern Ukrainians that identify themselves as Russians tension is with ethnic and Eastern Ukrainians. They don't blame the West.

Only Putin and people with issues toward the US are still playing the blame the West card. It is a very convenient distraction.

I am fully aware of US's short comings and will gladly bash US when and where it is due. This is just not one of those times.

There were no issues in Ukraine long before, the situation was pretty much the same as in many other Easter European countries after the USSR collapsed. Yes many people were not happy with their president Yanukovich but then, there are a lot of people in every country in the world who aren't happy with their governments.

I have many Russian and Ukrainian friends and what I see from their facebook posts is that most of the Ukrainians are really pissed with Putin - yes, but they don't look past their nose, they only see the immediate problem - Russian military on their land, and they don't want to understand where the main issues are coming from, and I understand their position - small people only worry about small things.

Current Ukrainian government like to associate themselves with Stepan Bandera. Perhaps you want to do some research and see the kind of person he was and the genocide committed against Poles during the WW2.

[folium]

Anyone have a legit reaon why Russia was justified to schematically enter/ control and overtake a foreign land? Is this not what they did?

Because their are millions of ethnic Russians live there, and they are in dire danger from this neo-nazi group who have over=thrown the Ukraine government and stolen power, mainly composed of dubious murderous figures who have vowed to basically ethnically cleanse all Russian blood from Ukraine.

Is that enough reason for you?.... It is for me.

Sounds like you have swallowed the Kremlin's propaganda hook, line & sinker.....

[Exsexyman]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

It is not a case of "silly blame the West stuff". Not once in your posts on this topic have you addressed the leaked pone call between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador, or her speech in December standing in front of a Chevron banner in which she clearly states that the US have invested $5billion in bringing 'democracy' to Ukraine. This clearly shows that the US was deeply involved in the destabilisation and the overthrow of the legal, elected government in Ukraine. You just choose to ignore this because it is inconvenient. Today we have the announcement from NATO that they are going to increase their presence and increase their military capabilities right up to Russia's doorstep, in clear breech of the promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the cold war.The Russian response to this is entirely predictable, how would the US react if the boot was on the other foot and Russia 'invested' $5billion in say Mexico or a central American country, in an opposition group that was clearly hostile to US interests. To just ignore this and pretend that the US is entirely blameless for the present crisis in the Ukraine is at best naive, or at worst downright dishonest. And if you really believe that people in the Ukraine, especially in the South and East are not blaming the West for this you are in cloud cuckoo land. People are not stupid, thanks to the social media they can see what is going on, millions of people around the world will have seen the Nuland speech, and heard the phone call, which is why this survey in London would get the same results if repeated in cities all over the world. Again, people are not stupid. Presumably you believe that the $5billion was spent on the arts in Ukraine, and CIA director John Brennan just dropped in to check out the local beer!

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Flattering for you to presuppose that US or West has such vast influence, but West does not. The issues in Ukraine are very deep seeded issues in place long before any perceived Western involvement.

Again, about half of our social network in two different states in which we live is Ukrainians from both West and East. There is a very large Eastern European community in our home town in Florida and it is size able here in Nashville.

Western Ukrainians tension is with Russia. They don't blame the West.

Eastern Ukrainians that identify themselves as Russians tension is with ethnic and Eastern Ukrainians. They don't blame the West.

Only Putin, sensational media sources, and those with issues toward the US are still playing the blame the West card. It is a very convenient distraction.

I am fully aware of US's short comings and will gladly bash US when and where it is due. This is just not one of those times.

I have NEVER posted in support of the leader of North Korea, that is untrue, very sad to see someone reduced to such tactics to try and discredit an opposing argument to your own. Again i note that you refuse to acknowledge the speech by Nuland, and the leaked phone call which both clearly demonstrate that the US has been at the forefront in deposing a legal elected government, and their role in imposing an unelected friendly puppet regime in its place. Why is this? Do you really believe that this clear evidence of US involvement is irrelevant to the situation there? It is not a case of US bashing, it is a case of pointing out obvious facts to counterbalance the clear bias of the Western media, and the constant vilification of Russia. Just because these facts are extremely inconvenient to your one sided view of the Ukranian crisis, you choose to ignore them and never factor them in to your arguments. You must have watched the Nuland speech and heard the transcript of the phone call, but you just seem to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears and ignore, just like the so called free press in the West. Can you point me to one instance when any of the main stream media have asked Obama or Kerry about this? Of course not because when it comes down to it they all sing from the same hymn sheet. And your argument that only Putin, sensational media sources and those with issues toward the US are blaming the the West, and that the people of Eastern Ukraine are not, is quite frankly laughable. The people of Eastern Ukraine want nothing to do with this Western imposed, illegal regime in Kiev, they have made that quite clear, they want out. Likewise it is becoming increasingly clear that the Ukranian military feel the same way. And who could blame them. Twenty per cent of the ministries in Ukraine under the new regime are in the control of very unsavoury people who are open supporters of the Nazi ideology. Victoria Nuland and John McCain shared platforms with them in the weeks leading up to the coup. Just as in Syria the people running US foreign policy are not fussy who they climb into bed with just as long as it suits their interests. The ends justify the means.

[F430murci]

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Flattering for you to presuppose that US or West has such vast influence, but West does not. The issues in Ukraine are very deep seeded issues in place long before any perceived Western involvement.

Again, about half of our social network in two different states in which we live is Ukrainians from both West and East. There is a very large Eastern European community in our home town in Florida and it is size able here in Nashville.

Western Ukrainians tension is with Russia. They don't blame the West.

Eastern Ukrainians that identify themselves as Russians tension is with ethnic and Eastern Ukrainians. They don't blame the West.

Only Putin and people with issues toward the US are still playing the blame the West card. It is a very convenient distraction.

I am fully aware of US's short comings and will gladly bash US when and where it is due. This is just not one of those times.

There were no issues in Ukraine long before, the situation was pretty much the same as in many other Easter European countries after the USSR collapsed. Yes many people were not happy with their president Yanukovich but then, there are a lot of people in every country in the world who aren't happy with their governments.

I have many Russian and Ukrainian friends and what I see from their facebook posts is that most of the Ukrainians are really pissed with Putin - yes, but they don't look past their nose, they only see the immediate problem - Russian military on their land, and they don't want to understand where the main issues are coming from, and I understand their position - small people only worry about small things.

Current Ukrainian government like to associate themselves with Stepan Bandera. Perhaps you want to do some research and see the kind of person he was and the genocide committed against Poles during the WW2.

I suppose not looking past nose may be a good analogy. There is absolutely no doubt that people from this region have a completely different thought process and set of internal values.

I spent a fair amount of time in Ukraine since mid 2000s. That is a very hard life. Pride and other internal beliefs seem to compensate for other societal issues that Westerners have neither experienced nor can understand. Same with Russians. Amazingly resilient people with a lot of pride that perhaps evokes different reactions and stirs different emotional responses than Westerners might expect.

I can say without a doubt, this situation has caused issues between my Russian wife and several of her closet Western Ukranian friends and my wife has no blame for the situation.

Edited April 17, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

It is not a case of "silly blame the West stuff". Not once in your posts on this topic have you addressed the leaked pone call between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador, or her speech in December standing in front of a Chevron banner in which she clearly states that the US have invested $5billion in bringing 'democracy' to Ukraine. This clearly shows that the US was deeply involved in the destabilisation and the overthrow of the legal, elected government in Ukraine. You just choose to ignore this because it is inconvenient. Today we have the announcement from NATO that they are going to increase their presence and increase their military capabilities right up to Russia's doorstep, in clear breech of the promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the cold war.The Russian response to this is entirely predictable, how would the US react if the boot was on the other foot and Russia 'invested' $5billion in say Mexico or a central American country, in an opposition group that was clearly hostile to US interests. To just ignore this and pretend that the US is entirely blameless for the present crisis in the Ukraine is at best naive, or at worst downright dishonest. And if you really believe that people in the Ukraine, especially in the South and East are not blaming the West for this you are in cloud cuckoo land. People are not stupid, thanks to the social media they can see what is going on, millions of people around the world will have seen the Nuland speech, and heard the phone call, which is why this survey in London would get the same results if repeated in cities all over the world. Again, people are not stupid. Presumably you believe that the $5billion was spent on the arts in Ukraine, and CIA director John Brennan just dropped in to check out the local beer!

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Flattering for you to presuppose that US or West has such vast influence, but West does not. The issues in Ukraine are very deep seeded issues in place long before any perceived Western involvement.

Again, about half of our social network in two different states in which we live is Ukrainians from both West and East. There is a very large Eastern European community in our home town in Florida and it is size able here in Nashville.

Western Ukrainians tension is with Russia. They don't blame the West.

Eastern Ukrainians that identify themselves as Russians tension is with ethnic and Eastern Ukrainians. They don't blame the West.

Only Putin, sensational media sources, and those with issues toward the US are still playing the blame the West card. It is a very convenient distraction.

I am fully aware of US's short comings and will gladly bash US when and where it is due. This is just not one of those times.

I have NEVER posted in support of the leader of North Korea, that is untrue, very sad to see someone reduced to such tactics to try and discredit an opposing argument to your own. Again i note that you refuse to acknowledge the speech by Nuland, and the leaked phone call which both clearly demonstrate that the US has been at the forefront in deposing a legal elected government, and their role in imposing an unelected friendly puppet regime in its place. Why is this? Do you really believe that this clear evidence of US involvement is irrelevant to the situation there? It is not a case of US bashing, it is a case of pointing out obvious facts to counterbalance the clear bias of the Western media, and the constant vilification of Russia. Just because these facts are extremely inconvenient to your one sided view of the Ukranian crisis, you choose to ignore them and never factor them in to your arguments. You must have watched the Nuland speech and heard the transcript of the phone call, but you just seem to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears and ignore, just like the so called free press in the West. Can you point me to one instance when any of the main stream media have asked Obama or Kerry about this? Of course not because when it comes down to it they all sing from the same hymn sheet. And your argument that only Putin, sensational media sources and those with issues toward the US are blaming the the West, and that the people of Eastern Ukraine are not, is quite frankly laughable. The people of Eastern Ukraine want nothing to do with this Western imposed, illegal regime in Kiev, they have made that quite clear, they want out. Likewise it is becoming increasingly clear that the Ukranian military feel the same way. And who could blame them. Twenty per cent of the ministries in Ukraine under the new regime are in the control of very unsavoury people who are open supporters of the Nazi ideology. Victoria Nuland and John McCain shared platforms with them in the weeks leading up to the coup. Just as in Syria the people running US foreign policy are not fussy who they climb into bed with just as long as it suits their interests. The ends justify the means.

You live in a shell, a nutty shell called you skull. Be angry at West and let that anger reside inside your skull all you want. West is big enough to handle it.

Your so busy focusing on your own selfish issues, you miss the extreme sadness and potential danger if this situation. This is much bigger than you, I or even US, Russia or Ukraine. Much bigger and I hope it all turns out okay.

Edited April 17, 2014 by F430murci

[Shurup]

I suppose not looking past nose may be a good analogy. There is absolutely no doubt that people from this region have a completely different thought process and set of internal values.

I spent a fair amount of time in Ukraine since mid 2000s. That is a very hard life. Pride and other internal beliefs seem to compensate for other societal issues that Westerners have neither experienced nor can understand. Same with Russians. Amazingly resilient people with a lot of pride that perhaps evokes different reactions and stirs different emotional responses than Westerners might expect.

I can say without a doubt, this situation has caused issues between my Russian wife and several of her closet Western Ukranian friends and my wife has no blame for the situation.

I've been to Ukraine many times, not in the recent years though, as well as I've been to Russia and some other Eastern European countries, the same thing everywhere. If there were any serious issues, they were recent, not from a far past as you seem to think. The real issues started with foreign (US) interference who started stirring up shit. The illegal nazi government (supported by the US) in turn started stirring up shit and making troubles for the Russian population living in Crimea. Thankfully I don't live there so I can look past my nose and see a big picture.

[Ulysses G.]

This is a very sad situation. As much as people feel this inmate need to blame the West or vent about perceived western policies, this situation has very little to do with the West.

This situation is comparable to US trying to force Mexican immigrants in Texas to speak Eglish and live by US customs, them getting pissed off, creating a conflict and Meixico stepping in and taking over Texas so Mexicans don't have to speak English.

Western Ukrainians are extremely upset, angry and feel violated. We have friends from Crimea, however, and they are okay with the annexation as they resented Ukrainanians for trying to force them to speak Ukranian and live as Ukranians.

Russian family and friends once defensive of Putin's response in Crimea are now in utter disbelief were this heading. Now, I hear zero blame toward US from them which was not the case when this started. I hear only fear regarding where this is heading and sadness by how devisive this has been between Russians and Ukranians that once considered themselves like brothers and sisters.

I don't hear this blame the West stuff from either Western or Eastern Ukranians. These issues in Ukraine have been brewing for some time and the poor economic conditions have played a role in feeding the social issues.

This silly blame the West stuff comes from people with their own set of personal issues regarding the West that feel the need to blame the West for anything and everything.

It is not a case of "silly blame the West stuff". Not once in your posts on this topic have you addressed the leaked pone call between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador, or her speech in December standing in front of a Chevron banner in which she clearly states that the US have invested $5billion in bringing 'democracy' to Ukraine. This clearly shows that the US was deeply involved in the destabilisation and the overthrow of the legal, elected government in Ukraine. You just choose to ignore this because it is inconvenient. Today we have the announcement from NATO that they are going to increase their presence and increase their military capabilities right up to Russia's doorstep, in clear breech of the promises made to Gorbachev at the end of the cold war.The Russian response to this is entirely predictable, how would the US react if the boot was on the other foot and Russia 'invested' $5billion in say Mexico or a central American country, in an opposition group that was clearly hostile to US interests. To just ignore this and pretend that the US is entirely blameless for the present crisis in the Ukraine is at best naive, or at worst downright dishonest. And if you really believe that people in the Ukraine, especially in the South and East are not blaming the West for this you are in cloud cuckoo land. People are not stupid, thanks to the social media they can see what is going on, millions of people around the world will have seen the Nuland speech, and heard the phone call, which is why this survey in London would get the same results if repeated in cities all over the world. Again, people are not stupid. Presumably you believe that the $5billion was spent on the arts in Ukraine, and CIA director John Brennan just dropped in to check out the local beer!

No matter what the topic, you are one of those that speak from a deep disdain on US or West policy even when it comes to the indefensible such as dear leader from North Korea.

Indeed.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[thailiketoo]

In the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk in which Jews were told to "register" with the pro-Russian militants who have taken over a government office in an attempt to make Ukraine part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website, and Ukraine's Donbass news agency.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

I have a hard time thinking this is an example of the Western media demonizing Russia. It is sounding more and more like Austria in 1938.

For those who don't know Austria was supposed to have a vote on uniting with Germany but Germany moved in with troops before the vote to make sure the Austrians didn't vote the wrong way.

[drand11]

It has been comical to read all of this. Facts are.. Russia offered a $15B bail out package to Ukraine !!

Ukraine rejected the EU Offer. By the way, USA did not offer anything in the first bailout.

US offered a LOAN..and not a bailout... of $3B only after the Ukraine Gov't Voted to Impeach the leader of Ukraine.

Conspiracies are rampant... facts are short in most people's brains. Ignorance is Bliss!

[thailiketoo]

It has been comical to read all of this. Facts are.. Russia offered a $15B bail out package to Ukraine !!

Ukraine rejected the EU Offer. By the way, USA did not offer anything in the first bailout.

US offered a LOAN..and not a bailout... of $3B only after the Ukraine Gov't Voted to Impeach the leader of Ukraine.

Conspiracies are rampant... facts are short in most people's brains. Ignorance is Bliss!

So if Thailand wants to buy Burma they offer them a loan and then move the troops in?

[BestBitterPhuket]

Perhaps they should have asked English people.

How would they recognize them?

Do they wear a badge?

Perhaps they speak English without an unpleasant accent.