Becoming a farmer in Thailand...

[djayz]

I've browsed through various topics here on the Farming section of TV and haven't quite found what I'm looking for.... hence my posting.

I'm interested in buying a total of 4 rai of land out between Korat and Buriram (yes, I know 4 rai isn't a lot of land, but I plan on starting small and, hopefully, growing with time and experience).

There are two plots of land with approximately 2 rai per plot. One plot has a well (I think it's 100 feet deep), so water is no problem for that plot. The other doesn't have a well, but there is a pond nearby so I assume if I were to sink a well I'd find water pretty easily.

The first plot of land, with the well, has an asking price of Baht 150,000/rai and has very good road coverage, is flat, has a big tree on it and is partially fenced (cement pillars). The other plot doesn't have road coverage but is flat, partially fenced (again with cement posts) and has an asking price of Baht 100,000-120,000/rai (price hasn’t been finalized yet). One of the plots has been used for a variety of crops, from Cassava to galanga. The second plot was used mainly for the cultivation of Cassava (and still has some left-over roots sticking their ugly heads up).

The plan is to use the land to produce crops AND to keep me occupied. Options I'm looking at for the 4 rai are:

some pig farming (10 to 20 for the beginning, growing in number after that),

chickens,

fruit (mainly bananas and jack fruit as I know that these grow well on both plots), strawberries, grapes, and ?????

vegetables (I'm experimenting with bell peppers in the wee garden at the back of my house at the moment), carrots, lettuce, onions, tomatoes (yes I know that these are difficult to grow), garlic, galanga and ????

The main idea behind this is 1) start off small, 2) a full-time hobby/job for me which will pay for itself and 3) eventually generate enough work/income to purchase more land.

My main question is: Where can I take the soil in Korat/Buriram to have it tested? What is this called in Thai?

I don’t expect/want to make millions doing this, but I am a hard-working man and I enjoy the outdoors so I’m sure I can do a lot of the work myself with minimum help from outsiders. The more I think about it, the more I want to do it! Am tired of working for others…

The land would be bought in the tgfs name but I would have a 30 year usufruct contract with her (am currently in talks with a lawyer in Korat about this, but she isn't living up to my expectations. Any recommendations re lawyers and usufruct contracts would also be highly appreciated).

Thanks in advance!

[djayz]

Forgot to mention that I come from a farming background, mainly beef farming in Ireland, so I'm used to getting my hands dirty and love the land....

[NeverSure]

I grew up on a large (10,000 rai, 4,000 acre) wheat and cattle ranch in the Western US. I have been very curious as to whether it might really pay to run a beef finishing operation in Thailand. I can't find good beef that's grown in Thailand, and the imported good beef is very expensive. I realize that some of the problem is the breed, but it still couldn't hurt to finish them properly, could it?

The land could be leased, but the big issue would be the refrigerated cooling room which would have to be so well built and regulated that it would stay right at 2 degrees C, give or take only 1 degree. Any warmer and the meat would spoil, and any colder and the meat would freeze and the curing action would stop.

You could run a pretty good operation on 4 rai. The cattle are bought at 1 year old, penned in so they won't exercise and burn fuel but rather get soft and fat muscles. Then they are fed corn, wheat and molasses for 3 months and they are ready to kill, clean, skin and hang.

Immediately upon hanging, they are put it the cold room for 3 weeks. The first week is imperative to get rigor mortis to pass. The next 2 weeks enzymes in the meat will work on it and further tenderize it. Then the carcass is butchered into the cuts you want, wrapped and frozen to be delivered to high end hotels and restaurants. Even the hamburger is good for gourmet burgers.

I believe you could sell all you could produce in Korat.

I just lack too much knowledge of Thailand to do an accurate business plan. I don't know what costs would be so I just think about it once in a while.

[Langsuan Man]

Considering that " farming and agriculture" are on the list of restricted occupations here in Thailand I don't think that career is viable for a farang

Even if you could get away with "hobby" farming I am sure that if you were even the least bit successful your farmer neighbors would rat you out in a heart beat

The OP also forgot to mention his visa status !

[Jotham79]

First of all, if you have a marriage or retirement visa I seriously doubt you will have work permit issues. This assumes you are working on a small scale and this would mean you do not get large enough to take money out of someone else's pockets (especial CP). If you can ensure that those around you are benefitting from your endeavor all the better (buying fuel, fertilizer...ect locally and hiring help occasionally) Having said that I know of one expat with a large pig farm and another with a broiler operation and neither have ever had any problems as everything is run through the wife. Of course not being an enormous P%$&k will lesson the chance of having problems. Try to integrate into the local society.

I am not saying you can not run into problems as you grow, even if you do everything right, but it is not common, though very painful and expensive.

Here are some things you might consider:

What kind of title will you get with the land.

How close are the parcels.

A pond nearby does not guarantee a substantial water table below.

Will you live on either parcel? I would not have livestock or highly pilferable fruits and produce on land where I did not live. Theft could definitely be a problem.

My preference would be to have a single larger parcel and live on it, but it sounds like you are invested on your current course. If you want to expand later will you have to move?

Consider becoming as self sufficient as is possible. At the end of the month there is little difference between money earned and money not spent and it will meet most of your objectives. Integrated farming. Take some time and visit some other small farms (pig, chicken, mushroom, fish, asparagus, dairy, fruit, vegetable......) There are excellent pinned threads on pig farming and lots of other good threads on specific topics.

Good luck

[rheinwiese]

First of all, if you have a marriage or retirement visa I seriously doubt you will have work permit issues.

You might want to check that again.

[Showbags]

I grew up on a large (10,000 rai, 4,000 acre) wheat and cattle ranch in the Western US. I have been very curious as to whether it might really pay to run a beef finishing operation in Thailand. I can't find good beef that's grown in Thailand, and the imported good beef is very expensive. I realize that some of the problem is the breed, but it still couldn't hurt to finish them properly, could it?

The land could be leased, but the big issue would be the refrigerated cooling room which would have to be so well built and regulated that it would stay right at 2 degrees C, give or take only 1 degree. Any warmer and the meat would spoil, and any colder and the meat would freeze and the curing action would stop.

You could run a pretty good operation on 4 rai. The cattle are bought at 1 year old, penned in so they won't exercise and burn fuel but rather get soft and fat muscles. Then they are fed corn, wheat and molasses for 3 months and they are ready to kill, clean, skin and hang.

Immediately upon hanging, they are put it the cold room for 3 weeks. The first week is imperative to get rigor mortis to pass. The next 2 weeks enzymes in the meat will work on it and further tenderize it. Then the carcass is butchered into the cuts you want, wrapped and frozen to be delivered to high end hotels and restaurants. Even the hamburger is good for gourmet burgers.

I believe you could sell all you could produce in Korat.

I just lack too much knowledge of Thailand to do an accurate business plan. I don't know what costs would be so I just think about it once in a while.

I had thought this exact same thing myself a few years ago.

You could run a little boutique butcher and sell to certain places only, as long as they appreciate your quality and price, you could have a long term client each and every month long term.

Anyway, I spent many years on cattle properties also, just a tad bigger than yours, in Australia.....first one was 500,000 acres.....last one was 1,000,000.

And there is actually good beef here, Ital/Thai I think it is, or is it French/thai, either way they have good beef and this one... http://www.kubeef.com/ .....by good beef I mean it is very good considering what was available 10 years or so ago.....I bought a whole tenderloin the other week, 4 or 5 kilo, 450b a kilo I think and it was very good, tender, tasty etc.

But, I also buy ribeye rolls from Oz, grass fed which I prefer much more to artificial anything, for 400/450b a kilo and usually 5 kilo or so and it is great.

[ozzydom]

I grew up on a large (10,000 rai, 4,000 acre) wheat and cattle ranch in the Western US. I have been very curious as to whether it might really pay to run a beef finishing operation in Thailand. I can't find good beef that's grown in Thailand, and the imported good beef is very expensive. I realize that some of the problem is the breed, but it still couldn't hurt to finish them properly, could it?

The land could be leased, but the big issue would be the refrigerated cooling room which would have to be so well built and regulated that it would stay right at 2 degrees C, give or take only 1 degree. Any warmer and the meat would spoil, and any colder and the meat would freeze and the curing action would stop.

You could run a pretty good operation on 4 rai. The cattle are bought at 1 year old, penned in so they won't exercise and burn fuel but rather get soft and fat muscles. Then they are fed corn, wheat and molasses for 3 months and they are ready to kill, clean, skin and hang.

Immediately upon hanging, they are put it the cold room for 3 weeks. The first week is imperative to get rigor mortis to pass. The next 2 weeks enzymes in the meat will work on it and further tenderize it. Then the carcass is butchered into the cuts you want, wrapped and frozen to be delivered to high end hotels and restaurants. Even the hamburger is good for gourmet burgers.

I believe you could sell all you could produce in Korat.

I just lack too much knowledge of Thailand to do an accurate business plan. I don't know what costs would be so I just think about it once in a while.

I had thought this exact same thing myself a few years ago.

You could run a little boutique butcher and sell to certain places only, as long as they appreciate your quality and price, you could have a long term client each and every month long term.

Anyway, I spent many years on cattle properties also, just a tad bigger than yours, in Australia.....first one was 500,000 acres.....last one was 1,000,000.

And there is actually good beef here, Ital/Thai I think it is, or is it French/thai, either way they have good beef and this one... http://www.kubeef.com/ .....by good beef I mean it is very good considering what was available 10 years or so ago.....I bought a whole tenderloin the other week, 4 or 5 kilo, 450b a kilo I think and it was very good, tender, tasty etc.

But, I also buy ribeye rolls from Oz, grass fed which I prefer much more to artificial anything, for 400/450b a kilo and usually 5 kilo or so and it is great.

Think you made a mistake with your Thai,French prices,Tenderloin was selling at 960 baht kilo in 2009.

[Bpuumike]

I've found that even the best raised and finished Thai beef doesn't get there. All down to the breed and that is restricted I believe.

I'm no farmer but have you considered tobacco? Could be a lot of work for the TGF though.

Any sort of livestock (pigs, chickens) will be rustled unless you have someone living on the land.

[onni4me]

To start with, the price of land seems very high to me. Here, near Khon Kaen farming land is maybe 40000-70000 Baht a Rai. To dig a well - or rather drill it - is about 30000 Baht and if no water, no pay.

I grow Jackfruit, it needs to keep it's roots dry, not in waterbed. And water can't stale on it's roots either. It will rot away. I have coconut trees, teak, some Marian plum and a lot of different varieties of mango grown from seed. Mango is easy to grow, just take the seed out from the pocket and plant it in a pot. This way you end up with tap root and roots. The mangoes they sell have roots of some other tree and don't stay alive too many years producing fruit.

Depends what you like. I have been testing and some plants grow well and some just die. Dragon fruit is easy and doesn't need much work. Passion fruit can be vine can grow on trees that you grow anyway. Also pepper vine needs some tree to hold on to.

I have found gardening very relaxing and rewarding despite some mishaps.

Lots of information can be found from internet by browsing the name of the plants that you are interested in. Good time to plant is when the rainy season starts. Good luck with your endeavors.

[pigeonjake]

Considering that " farming and agriculture" are on the list of restricted occupations here in Thailand I don't think that career is viable for a farang

Even if you could get away with "hobby" farming I am sure that if you were even the least bit successful your farmer neighbors would rat you out in a heart beat

The OP also forgot to mention his visa status !

my wifes got a pig farm and im seen there many many times, we make good money and no one has rated on us,,

ours must be a nice village eh

jake

[janpharma]

The land seems expensive though...2 years ago we were offered in the same area at 50.000.- THB /Rai; Thai to Thai price at that moment was even 35.000.-/Rai.

Good Luck!

[Jotham79]

First of all, if you have a marriage or retirement visa I seriously doubt you will have work permit issues.

You might want to check that again.

I would be interested to know of anyone who had a valid marriage or retirement visa has been in trouble for farming. I have never heard of it around where I am and there are dozens of farangs involved to some extent.

[nuananddon]

Wishing you best of luck in your farming experience. Wife and I have a small farm in the Midwest USA raising winter wheat and soybeans. Always remember farming is very risky business, Murphy's law is always looking over your shoulder. Mother Nature is your best friend, if she doesn't cooperate things can go south in a hurry. Roll with the good and bad and you'll be just fine.

[Greg Nixon]

I have found good beef in Non Sung west of Mukdahan. It is not typical western thick cut beef but I like the flavour better. I put this down to natural grass grazing.

[ggt]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

[Showbags]

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I grew up on a large (10,000 rai, 4,000 acre) wheat and cattle ranch in the Western US. I have been very curious as to whether it might really pay to run a beef finishing operation in Thailand. I can't find good beef that's grown in Thailand, and the imported good beef is very expensive. I realize that some of the problem is the breed, but it still couldn't hurt to finish them properly, could it?

The land could be leased, but the big issue would be the refrigerated cooling room which would have to be so well built and regulated that it would stay right at 2 degrees C, give or take only 1 degree. Any warmer and the meat would spoil, and any colder and the meat would freeze and the curing action would stop.

You could run a pretty good operation on 4 rai. The cattle are bought at 1 year old, penned in so they won't exercise and burn fuel but rather get soft and fat muscles. Then they are fed corn, wheat and molasses for 3 months and they are ready to kill, clean, skin and hang.

Immediately upon hanging, they are put it the cold room for 3 weeks. The first week is imperative to get rigor mortis to pass. The next 2 weeks enzymes in the meat will work on it and further tenderize it. Then the carcass is butchered into the cuts you want, wrapped and frozen to be delivered to high end hotels and restaurants. Even the hamburger is good for gourmet burgers.

I believe you could sell all you could produce in Korat.

I just lack too much knowledge of Thailand to do an accurate business plan. I don't know what costs would be so I just think about it once in a while.

I had thought this exact same thing myself a few years ago.

You could run a little boutique butcher and sell to certain places only, as long as they appreciate your quality and price, you could have a long term client each and every month long term.

Anyway, I spent many years on cattle properties also, just a tad bigger than yours, in Australia.....first one was 500,000 acres.....last one was 1,000,000.

And there is actually good beef here, Ital/Thai I think it is, or is it French/thai, either way they have good beef and this one... http://www.kubeef.com/ .....by good beef I mean it is very good considering what was available 10 years or so ago.....I bought a whole tenderloin the other week, 4 or 5 kilo, 450b a kilo I think and it was very good, tender, tasty etc.

But, I also buy ribeye rolls from Oz, grass fed which I prefer much more to artificial anything, for 400/450b a kilo and usually 5 kilo or so and it is great.

Think you made a mistake with your Thai,French prices,Tenderloin was selling at 960 baht kilo in 2009.

Not at all...twas circa 4.5 kg and cost was 2k baht something....whole tenderloin and we spit roasted it.....this was from KU Beef though.

They did put their prices up some time ago and then did not sell anything, they wisely brought them back to reality for home grown beef.

[swissie]

4 rai of land.

Many Thai Farmers have 4 rai of land or less. They belong to the second poorest people in Thailand. Now, Farang comes along and wants to do better !

And (quote) "but she isn't living up to my expectations." Before something get's off the ground, OP is already crying out for a good lawyer!

No further comment needed.

Cheers.

[johninbkk71]

I've thought about setting up a small market garden veggies, herbs and fruit. Experiment with strawberries using seeds from Australia and everything my gran taught me. Not so successful think strawberries might need enclosures in Thailand.

Anyway good luck. Let us know if the strawberries succeed.

[rgs2001uk]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

Land available at 500 baht or 1,000 baht per year for lease, why would anyone even consider lashing out at least 500k for land they cant own?

Paddy land producing 2000 baht per rai per year profit and mugs are buying it for upwards of a million baht per rai in some areas.

4 rai at 1,000 per rai per year = equals 4000 baht per year, get it on a 30 year lease thats 120,000 baht, and you intend shelling out 500k, un effin believable.

Sorry the numbers just dont add up.

[Showbags]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

We bought rice land for 500k a rai....whats your problem ?

Land available at 500 baht or 1,000 baht per year for lease, why would anyone even consider lashing out at least 500k for land they cant own?

Paddy land producing 2000 baht per rai per year profit and mugs are buying it for upwards of a million baht per rai in some areas.

4 rai at 1,000 per rai per year = equals 4000 baht per year, get it on a 30 year lease thats 120,000 baht, and you intend shelling out 500k, un effin believable.

Sorry the numbers just dont add up.

We bought rice land for 500k a rai...whats your problem ?

[khaowong1]

Good luck with your endeavors.. I have a Canadian friend whose wife and him have a coconut farm near Hua Hin.. They do very well. He's never mentioned any problems with neighbors or visa's. I've always thought farming in Thailand could be good. I should mention though that they live on their property.

[tingtong]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

We bought rice land for 500k a rai....whats your problem ?

Land available at 500 baht or 1,000 baht per year for lease, why would anyone even consider lashing out at least 500k for land they cant own?

Paddy land producing 2000 baht per rai per year profit and mugs are buying it for upwards of a million baht per rai in some areas.

4 rai at 1,000 per rai per year = equals 4000 baht per year, get it on a 30 year lease thats 120,000 baht, and you intend shelling out 500k, un effin believable.

Sorry the numbers just dont add up.

We bought rice land for 500k a rai...whats your problem ?

Was that for farming purpose?

Should you even make 10k/rai/yr profit, that is considered quite high from farming....that would be a mere 50 yrs to return your investment.

But wait!

OP wants to expand from the proceeds!

Do you like to suggest even 500k a rai farmland is great investment for him to do that?

Opposite from us, mid of nowhere in Chaiyaphum province, dirt road access, no water, but electricity in front, the neighbor decided to sell his land, 100k a rai, thai price.

2 yrs ago ppl talk about 50k here.

Would i be interested to buy for such to grow once a year rice crop or sugar, and expect to make enough to expand before i die? ( mind you i am 38!) No, I wouldnt!

I wish to add to our 12 rai, but I just cant justify it for that price, and seeing how much we can make on our land. Numbers dont add up, not to buy for 100k a rai.

Once again, I am sure your 500k a rai isnt bought to use as rice land and make high return on it as such!

[rgs2001uk]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

We bought rice land for 500k a rai....whats your problem ?

Land available at 500 baht or 1,000 baht per year for lease, why would anyone even consider lashing out at least 500k for land they cant own?

Paddy land producing 2000 baht per rai per year profit and mugs are buying it for upwards of a million baht per rai in some areas.

4 rai at 1,000 per rai per year = equals 4000 baht per year, get it on a 30 year lease thats 120,000 baht, and you intend shelling out 500k, un effin believable.

Sorry the numbers just dont add up.

We bought rice land for 500k a rai...whats your problem ?

No problemo here, re read the OP.

Please let me know where I should send my "man of the quarter" or "poster of the year" award to.

Never mind, will only take you 250 years years to recoup your outlay, not unless you are one of those property speculator types.

Please excuse me, but wont be rushing up HW # 24 to take advantage of such bargains.

[Showbags]

You...my man...are setting yourself up...for some potential big disappointments...good luck!

We bought rice land for 500k a rai....whats your problem ?

Land available at 500 baht or 1,000 baht per year for lease, why would anyone even consider lashing out at least 500k for land they cant own?

Paddy land producing 2000 baht per rai per year profit and mugs are buying it for upwards of a million baht per rai in some areas.

4 rai at 1,000 per rai per year = equals 4000 baht per year, get it on a 30 year lease thats 120,000 baht, and you intend shelling out 500k, un effin believable.

Sorry the numbers just dont add up.

We bought rice land for 500k a rai...whats your problem ?

No problemo here, re read the OP.

Please let me know where I should send my "man of the quarter" or "poster of the year" award to.

Never mind, will only take you 250 years years to recoup your outlay, not unless you are one of those property speculator types.

Please excuse me, but wont be rushing up HW # 24 to take advantage of such bargains.

'property speculator types'.....what type are they...do they smell a little different or something ?

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, yes best of luck to them, they usually smell of success.

These days I prefer to keep my property speculation limited to London and the Land Of Oz.

Nothing against the land of the Thai, I prefer to actually keep things in my name, somehow I sleep easier in my bed at night, dont need to worry if Little Lek is going to rip me off or not.

Best of luck to you, go for it.

[sirchai]

My main question is: Where can I take the soil in Korat/Buriram to have it tested? What is this called in Thai?

That's the best point of your post. Sorry, but a farmer in Thailand that's odd. Do you have Thai farmers back in your country, working without work permit? Just curious. Good luck. -

[sirchai]

I grew up on a large (10,000 rai, 4,000 acre) wheat and cattle ranch in the Western US. I have been very curious as to whether it might really pay to run a beef finishing operation in Thailand. I can't find good beef that's grown in Thailand, and the imported good beef is very expensive. I realize that some of the problem is the breed, but it still couldn't hurt to finish them properly, could it?

The land could be leased, but the big issue would be the refrigerated cooling room which would have to be so well built and regulated that it would stay right at 2 degrees C, give or take only 1 degree. Any warmer and the meat would spoil, and any colder and the meat would freeze and the curing action would stop.

You could run a pretty good operation on 4 rai. The cattle are bought at 1 year old, penned in so they won't exercise and burn fuel but rather get soft and fat muscles. Then they are fed corn, wheat and molasses for 3 months and they are ready to kill, clean, skin and hang.

Immediately upon hanging, they are put it the cold room for 3 weeks. The first week is imperative to get rigor mortis to pass. The next 2 weeks enzymes in the meat will work on it and further tenderize it. Then the carcass is butchered into the cuts you want, wrapped and frozen to be delivered to high end hotels and restaurants. Even the hamburger is good for gourmet burgers.

I believe you could sell all you could produce in Korat.

I just lack too much knowledge of Thailand to do an accurate business plan. I don't know what costs would be so I just think about it once in a while.

Isn't the "Chockchai Farm in Korat a very good example for a decent steak?

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, answer NO, you jest surely.

[djayz]

To start with, the price of land seems very high to me. Here, near Khon Kaen farming land is maybe 40000-70000 Baht a Rai. To dig a well - or rather drill it - is about 30000 Baht and if no water, no pay.

I grow Jackfruit, it needs to keep it's roots dry, not in waterbed. And water can't stale on it's roots either. It will rot away. I have coconut trees, teak, some Marian plum and a lot of different varieties of mango grown from seed. Mango is easy to grow, just take the seed out from the pocket and plant it in a pot. This way you end up with tap root and roots. The mangoes they sell have roots of some other tree and don't stay alive too many years producing fruit.

Depends what you like. I have been testing and some plants grow well and some just die. Dragon fruit is easy and doesn't need much work. Passion fruit can be vine can grow on trees that you grow anyway. Also pepper vine needs some tree to hold on to.

I have found gardening very relaxing and rewarding despite some mishaps.

Lots of information can be found from internet by browsing the name of the plants that you are interested in. Good time to plant is when the rainy season starts. Good luck with your endeavors.

Thank you onni4me. I enjoyed reading your post, especially the bit about gardening being very relaxing. This is one of the main ideas behind my wish to get some land and start farming (that and keeping myself occupied).

Coming back to your comment regarding growing mangoes from seeds. I tried that last year and was very successful. I had a few mango saplings but my gf told me that the trees will never bear fruit because they were grown from seed... I've also read a few threads here on TV and quite a few people wrote the same thing about their trees (advocado, etc.) grown from seeds don't bear fruit.

Am I right in assuming that this is not the case for EVERY fruit? Or is there a much lower chance that trees grown from seeds will actually bear fruit?

Thanks in advance.