My Thai wife doesn't like Thailand

[Berkshire]

If Thailand is so bad, why do so many of us expats want nothing more than to be able to live out our lives there?

Thailand is good for expats exactly for many of the reasons that it's bad for Thais.

Eighty percent of Thais live in relative poverty. That means your typical expat can make a teacher's salary and still seem like he's doing well. I can assure you that if expats were living life on the same level as most Thais they wouldn't be flocking to Thailand the way that they do now.

Expats exploit an income/wealth inequality to live a life better than they could live back home. I don't mean the world "exploit" to be negative. It's simply an accurate description of why many expats come to Thailand. Any time you take advantage of a inefficiency in the market, you're exploiting it.

It's a tough question though because the dynamics of everything would change if the situation were different. If Thailand had the economy that SIngapore or Hong Kong does, expats would still come to Thailand but it would be the same kinds of expats that you see in Hong Kong and Singapore and less like the expats you see in Thailand. Many of the expats living in Thailand today might hate a Thailand that had an economy that was buzzing like HKG and Sing. They wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle they live with their current jobs.

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

[digibum]

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

No offense, but I think you're describing an idealized version of Thais that does exist but is a true rarity. Thailand is one of the most materialistic societies I've ever visited/lived-in.

And what I said, which you are claiming to disagree with, is that many of the reasons expats love Thailand is that they can purchase a lifestyle which they could not otherwise afford back home. And part of the reason they can purchase that lifestyle is because of the severe economic conditions in Thailand (which I would put under the "Bad for Thais" column). I don't think anything you said contradicts that.

I said nothing about family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, or anything else in the context of what is good or bad for Thais. Every country has these aspects to it so it doesn't even explain why Thais "prefer" not to leave Thailand.

IMHO, Thais don't "prefer" to stay in Thailand as much as they fear leaving Thailand.

[digibum]

A Thai lady I know that resides in the USA started a business and is now raking in over 2 million baht a year. She will also receive the maximum social security benefits when she retires. (about 50,000baht a month)

No doubt she is a legend up country, in her village.

I'm pretty sure all her friends and relatives would like to join her.

Depends.

Many people envy without ever wanting to do the work. I'm pretty sure many of her friends and family would like her wealth but they would like to have it while sitting on their front porch back in some Thai village watching lakorns all day.

That's not a quality unique to Thais either. We all know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it.

[Scarpolo]

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

No offense, but I think you're describing an idealized version of Thais that does exist but is a true rarity. Thailand is one of the most materialistic societies I've ever visited/lived-in.

And what I said, which you are claiming to disagree with, is that many of the reasons expats love Thailand is that they can purchase a lifestyle which they could not otherwise afford back home. And part of the reason they can purchase that lifestyle is because of the severe economic conditions in Thailand (which I would put under the "Bad for Thais" column). I don't think anything you said contradicts that.

I said nothing about family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, or anything else in the context of what is good or bad for Thais. Every country has these aspects to it so it doesn't even explain why Thais "prefer" not to leave Thailand.

IMHO, Thais don't "prefer" to stay in Thailand as much as they fear leaving Thailand.

I agree with you on them being afraid,

I asked a girl to visit the USA and her friends told her not too, that she may be sold into slavey.

the fact that she lives as a slave now, made no difference as, she is thailands slave, and other than that, when she leaves her job,

she has relative control over much of the rest of her life,

but still afraid to leave thailand

[thailiketoo]

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

No offense, but I think you're describing an idealized version of Thais that does exist but is a true rarity. Thailand is one of the most materialistic societies I've ever visited/lived-in.

And what I said, which you are claiming to disagree with, is that many of the reasons expats love Thailand is that they can purchase a lifestyle which they could not otherwise afford back home. And part of the reason they can purchase that lifestyle is because of the severe economic conditions in Thailand (which I would put under the "Bad for Thais" column). I don't think anything you said contradicts that.

I said nothing about family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, or anything else in the context of what is good or bad for Thais. Every country has these aspects to it so it doesn't even explain why Thais "prefer" not to leave Thailand.

IMHO, Thais don't "prefer" to stay in Thailand as much as they fear leaving Thailand.

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Edited April 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Scarpolo]

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

No offense, but I think you're describing an idealized version of Thais that does exist but is a true rarity. Thailand is one of the most materialistic societies I've ever visited/lived-in.

And what I said, which you are claiming to disagree with, is that many of the reasons expats love Thailand is that they can purchase a lifestyle which they could not otherwise afford back home. And part of the reason they can purchase that lifestyle is because of the severe economic conditions in Thailand (which I would put under the "Bad for Thais" column). I don't think anything you said contradicts that.

I said nothing about family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, or anything else in the context of what is good or bad for Thais. Every country has these aspects to it so it doesn't even explain why Thais "prefer" not to leave Thailand.

IMHO, Thais don't "prefer" to stay in Thailand as much as they fear leaving Thailand.

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

dont kid yourself,

most in the US are married to fat ugly domineering wives, have 4 kids all that need college educations paid for, teeth fixed, orthodonture work,

BMW's for the daughters

they are all miserable,

now, if they had soapy massage places here, things may be different

[DualSportBiker]

I've been trawling through my failing memory to see what I can recall about Thais overseas that I know well. Well enough to have had conversations germane to the OP. My list totals 15, of which 12 are women.

Six were 3 couples who went to study with intentions to return; never did. Five girls went over single to study, and are now married (2) or have good careers in IT. The four remaining girls met their husbands here and departed with them. One such couple planned to rotate 3 there, 3 here, and so on, but after a while shelved that plan as both were happier there. Of all of the girls, this last one was the only housewife with no intention of getting a career, here or there.

Does this small sample counter the claim that so many overseas Thai would be keen to return here given the chance? Not sure, but, it does suggest that those who leave for a while have their eyes opened to the fact that Thailand is hard work in many ways.

I still intend to retire here, and my wife begrudgingly agrees that a place away from Bkk would be workable when we are both approaching 60, but between now and then, we might just bugger off for a while and enjoy a more mature environment for a few years.

Sent - how is not that important...

[Scarpolo]

I've been trawling through my failing memory to see what I can recall about Thais overseas that I know well. Well enough to have had conversations germane to the OP. My list totals 15, of which 12 are women.

Six were 3 couples who went to study with intentions to return; never did. Five girls went over single to study, and are now married (2) or have good careers in IT. The four remaining girls met their husbands here and departed with them. One such couple planned to rotate 3 there, 3 here, and so on, but after a while shelved that plan as both were happier there. Of all of the girls, this last one was the only housewife with no intention of getting a career, here or there.

Does this small sample counter the claim that so many overseas Thai would be keen to return here given the chance? Not sure, but, it does suggest that those who leave for a while have their eyes opened to the fact that Thailand is hard work in many ways.

I still intend to retire here, and my wife begrudgingly agrees that a place away from Bkk would be workable when we are both approaching 60, but between now and then, we might just bugger off for a while and enjoy a more mature environment for a few years.

Sent - how is not that important...

there are a large number of Thais in the south florida area,

none of them plan to return, ever

they are doing well here and have calm and serene living conditions,

some, are wildy succeesful restaurant owners

[Thai at Heart]

My wife has never come out and said it but I can tell from things she's said over the years but I think Thais are sort of fed a fantasy where living outside of Thailand is very dangerous. Yes, sure, I guess we all have some of that fear when we move outside of our own countries. Our parents and friends are worried. They want frequent updates to make sure we're okay and all.

But in Thailand, I've heard women say that they're afraid of being kidnapped or killed by their husbands overseas. Even if they're not worried, 100% their family is going to be crazy worried about it. They think they're going to be sold into prostitution. They're told that wherever they go people will look down on them. They're told that police and the governments in other countries won't take care of or help them.

Part of that is because they only hear about these type of things. The women who move overseas, have a great life, and don't want to return to Thailand, don't write books or receive coverage in the Thai media. Thais who have had success overseas know that they're speaking to a brick wall. They know they can't explain it even to other Thais.

I've seen my wife's attitudes change. She can't stand many of her friends anymore. She loves them to death but she simply can't relate to them anymore. Whenever we go back to Thailand, there is about 2 or 3 days where she is in heaven getting to catch up with her old friends but it wears off quickly when she realizes she has nothing in common with them anymore.

Once they get out of Thailand, and if they get a chance to be somewhat independent and get a job, make friends, etc, etc, I think their attitudes about Thailand change greatly. It becomes obvious that they were sold a load of BS about how great Thailand is and they begin to see the same flaws that us farangs see. Even worse, they understand the culture even better than we do and they see a lot more of the flaws.

Excellent post old mate and I totally agree. My Thai wife has been living in Australia for 26 years now and has become a citizen and holds an Australian passport. She reads all the Thai newspapers online and just shakes her head reading about what's going on in Thailand. There are many farangs who love to live and retire in Thailand for the rest of their lives, why is it so hard for some people to believe that there are 1,000's of good Thai women (and men) who want to do the same and live in 1st. world countries?

Thanks, mate.

I would slightly disagree in saying that most Thai women don't want to live outside of Thailand but once they leave, many do not want to return to Thailand. I've met very few Thais who are dying to leave Thailand. I can only think of a handful that I've ever met over the years.

My wife has a pretty decent sized circle of Thai friends here in the US. Many are Thais from Thailand (married to farangs, here on student visas, etc) but she also has a group of American born and raised Thai friends too (which really can be an eye opener for Thais when they meet other Thais not raised on the propaganda of Thailand). My completely casual observation is that:

The women who want to go back to Thailand never establish any real ties to the US. They have almost zero non-Thai friends. They basically live their life in Thai in another country. Thai food, Thai TV, Thai friends, etc, etc. I see this a lot of Thais married to farangs where she's expected not to work, stay home and take care of the home, etc. On paper this seems like a pretty easy life but I think it ends up being very stressful because it's almost like being held captive.

The Thais who don't want to go back tend to have a lot of things going on that don't involve other Thais. They have jobs. They go to school (a very high percentage of Thais here on student visas are desperately seeking someone to marry to stay in the US). They drive. They have goals and aspirations.

I'm pretty sure my wife would have been homesick and wanting to return home in six months had I not pushed her to be more independent when she first moved to the US. I enrolled her in some English classes to help her reading and writing skills. I also encouraged her to get a job. She wound up making friends in the English class. Many of those friends she's still friends with today. She was able to find a job working with some American born Thais. She got to express herself in her native tongue but she also got a different take on things.

you bring up a good thought,

Thai girls in america desperate to stay here,

I am going to have to explore this idea more thoughtfully, as they are already partially westernized, just by virtue of their thinking

I have been told that anyone bringing a thai girl to the west is crazy, but one already here,

potentially far greater rewrads?

A friends sister just married virtually for that reason alone. She doesn't want to come back.

One thing not to discount is leaving thailand frees you from obligation to an overbearing mother.

Hardly a rare thing in Thailand.

[Scarpolo]

and I just left a girl there, who refused to break the stranglehold the mother has on her

[55Jay]

I met my Mrs. abroad but shortly back in LOS, she said Thailand was "good for her". It's home, she can read all the signs, understands what's said and going on around her. I get it. I'm the fish out of water here instead of her when we were overseas. But, we shipped out and lived abroad again and once her English improved, she made some friends, driving license and her own car, she's done a total 180.

Back in Thailand for the last year+ and she would rather not be here. The thing is we are both mid-40's and we don't have to work. Was a problem for me at first but I'm afraid I've gotten used to it.

That said, she understands that living in the US would be living to work and working to live. Even if we just worked part time to cover the additional expenses we don't have here and dip into the nest egg for later life, that would rule our lives.

So, we trade having more modern infrastructure and organized, esthetically pleasing roads and sight lines, for a freer lifestyle. We can, on a whim, jump into the car or an airplane and go goof off for a week or two some place or even just stay at home being bored with the daily routine. It's a compromise.

[Scarpolo]

I met my Mrs. abroad but shortly back in LOS, she said Thailand was "good for her". It's home, she can read all the signs, understands what's said and going on around her. I get it. I'm the fish out of water here instead of her when we were overseas. But, we shipped out and lived abroad again and once her English improved, she made some friends, driving license and her own car, she's done a total 180.

Back in Thailand for the last year+ and she would rather not be here. The thing is we are both mid-40's and we don't have to work. Was a problem for me at first but I'm afraid I've gotten used to it.

That said, she understands that living in the US would be living to work and working to live. Even if we just worked part time to cover the additional expenses we don't have here and dip into the nest egg for later life, that would rule our lives.

So, we trade having more modern infrastructure and organized, esthetically pleasing roads and sight lines, for a freer lifestyle. We can, on a whim, jump into the car or an airplane and go goof off for a week or two some place or even just stay at home being bored with the daily routine. It's a compromise.

city?

[thaibeachlovers]

If Thailand is so bad, why do so many of us expats want nothing more than to be able to live out our lives there?

Thailand is good for expats exactly for many of the reasons that it's bad for Thais.

Eighty percent of Thais live in relative poverty. That means your typical expat can make a teacher's salary and still seem like he's doing well. I can assure you that if expats were living life on the same level as most Thais they wouldn't be flocking to Thailand the way that they do now.

Expats exploit an income/wealth inequality to live a life better than they could live back home. I don't mean the world "exploit" to be negative. It's simply an accurate description of why many expats come to Thailand. Any time you take advantage of a inefficiency in the market, you're exploiting it.

It's a tough question though because the dynamics of everything would change if the situation were different. If Thailand had the economy that SIngapore or Hong Kong does, expats would still come to Thailand but it would be the same kinds of expats that you see in Hong Kong and Singapore and less like the expats you see in Thailand. Many of the expats living in Thailand today might hate a Thailand that had an economy that was buzzing like HKG and Sing. They wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle they live with their current jobs.

Re myself, I have to disagree that I have a better life in Thailand because I have more money than a Thai, as I probably have less to spend than a middle class Thai, given that the majority of my money is for the visa extension, and I have to live on around 10,000 to 15,000 a month. Obviously I live better than a Thai on 5,000 a month, but I'm not living in a condo and having NZ lamb for dinner on my available funds.

The reason I like Thailand ( leaving aside my wife ), is that it's usually warm/ hot, cheap to eat, cheap transport, cheap movies/ DVDs and there are more pretty girls to enjoy than back home. Plus, it's way less PC and regulated, and I feel safer there from being mugged etc.

[HeijoshinCool]

The GF has for two years out of four asked to leave Thailand. I'm the one who has resisted, wanting to give Thailand "another chance."

But after my latest two experiences, one yesterday, and one today, I called her an hour ago.

Looking to be stateside together by July. We're both excited.

[55Jay]

The GF has for two years out of four asked to leave Thailand. I'm the one who has resisted, wanting to give Thailand "another chance."

But after my latest two experiences, one yesterday, and one today, I called her an hour ago.

Looking to be stateside together by July. We're both excited.

Ouch. Not to derail the thread too far but, what happened?

Edit: spelling

Edited April 25, 2014 by 55Jay

[digibum]

You make some good points....except when you say in your first sentence "that it's bad for Thais." While it's true that Thai purchasing power may not be on par with the typical expat, money does not mean everything to a Thai. It's the family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, and a great many other things that this country does to cater to its citizens. Surely it's already been established that most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand, even if they're just simply middle class. This differs greatly from, say, Filipinos, many of whom are desperate to leave.

Now some of you folks have brought up Thais living abroad who do not desire to return. Apples and oranges in most cases. I have met some Thais who grew up in America and consider themselves Americans. And like most Americans, they can't imagine living anywhere else. Clearly, this Thai person bears no resemblance to a typical Thai born and raised in Thailand.

No offense, but I think you're describing an idealized version of Thais that does exist but is a true rarity. Thailand is one of the most materialistic societies I've ever visited/lived-in.

And what I said, which you are claiming to disagree with, is that many of the reasons expats love Thailand is that they can purchase a lifestyle which they could not otherwise afford back home. And part of the reason they can purchase that lifestyle is because of the severe economic conditions in Thailand (which I would put under the "Bad for Thais" column). I don't think anything you said contradicts that.

I said nothing about family, friends, food, TV, music, cultural understanding, language compatibility, or anything else in the context of what is good or bad for Thais. Every country has these aspects to it so it doesn't even explain why Thais "prefer" not to leave Thailand.

IMHO, Thais don't "prefer" to stay in Thailand as much as they fear leaving Thailand.

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Despite some television shows, I don't think most doctors in the US live a rockstar lifestyle. That is especially true for new doctors who have to complete a residency that lasts anywhere from 1 - 7 years and during which, they're not paid all that well. Then, they can start paying off their six-figure student loans (which can run $250,000 - $500,000) :-)

To be honest, I don't know why so many Thai doctors return to Thailand. However, you tell a slightly skewed story where India, Pakistan, and the Philippines have no doctors because they call go to the US. Obviously that is not the case. So, many of the doctors trained in the US do return to their home countries. Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that.

[digibum]

I've been trawling through my failing memory to see what I can recall about Thais overseas that I know well. Well enough to have had conversations germane to the OP. My list totals 15, of which 12 are women.

Six were 3 couples who went to study with intentions to return; never did. Five girls went over single to study, and are now married (2) or have good careers in IT. The four remaining girls met their husbands here and departed with them. One such couple planned to rotate 3 there, 3 here, and so on, but after a while shelved that plan as both were happier there. Of all of the girls, this last one was the only housewife with no intention of getting a career, here or there.

Does this small sample counter the claim that so many overseas Thai would be keen to return here given the chance? Not sure, but, it does suggest that those who leave for a while have their eyes opened to the fact that Thailand is hard work in many ways.

I still intend to retire here, and my wife begrudgingly agrees that a place away from Bkk would be workable when we are both approaching 60, but between now and then, we might just bugger off for a while and enjoy a more mature environment for a few years.

Sent - how is not that important...

there are a large number of Thais in the south florida area,

none of them plan to return, ever

they are doing well here and have calm and serene living conditions,

some, are wildy succeesful restaurant owners

LOL. One of my good friends that I met while living in Thailand returned to south Florida with his Thai wife. She started a restaurant that did pretty well that she sold. Then she started a some clothing design business that seems to be doing okay.

The husband has to drag her back to Thailand every year because she has no interest in going back. Of course, he wants to go so he can go on a 2 - 3 week alcohol fueled bender.

[Scarpolo]

The GF has for two years out of four asked to leave Thailand. I'm the one who has resisted, wanting to give Thailand "another chance."

But after my latest two experiences, one yesterday, and one today, I called her an hour ago.

Looking to be stateside together by July. We're both excited.

People just do not realize, that living in the USA is far safer, far cleaner, and can be just as inexpensive as Thailand, without the Thainess

[digibum]

Does this small sample counter the claim that so many overseas Thai would be keen to return here given the chance? Not sure, but, it does suggest that those who leave for a while have their eyes opened to the fact that Thailand is hard work in many ways.

I still intend to retire here, and my wife begrudgingly agrees that a place away from Bkk would be workable when we are both approaching 60, but between now and then, we might just bugger off for a while and enjoy a more mature environment for a few years.

Agreed that it's about having one's eyes opened which is why I think integrating into the foreign lifestyle is an important part of it. If she can wall herself off in everything Thai and just wait it out until she can go home, it's far different than someone who makes an attempt to fit into the new culture. But once they do, the vast majority don't want to go back.

I remember the first year my wife was in the US. It was like every day was an eye opener for her. I was watching John Stewart and her jaw hit the floor. She couldn't believe that comedians could openly mock the president without fearing jail. We got pulled over by the police one night at a sobriety checkpoint and she was amazed at the police professionalism and that we weren't shaken down for money. She still can't believe that she can buy land or start a business on her own here. The list goes on and on.

That said, like you, we've decided that come retirement, we'll probably migrate back to Thailand. However, from her standpoint I think she is now thinking about returning to Thailand for practical terms rather than emotional ones. She knows that the cost of living would be much less (she's even suggested maybe moving to Vietnam or Cambodia). She wants to find a place far away from her family and far away from Bangkok where we can enjoy ourselves in relative luxury.

[digibum]

If Thailand is so bad, why do so many of us expats want nothing more than to be able to live out our lives there?

Thailand is good for expats exactly for many of the reasons that it's bad for Thais.

Eighty percent of Thais live in relative poverty. That means your typical expat can make a teacher's salary and still seem like he's doing well. I can assure you that if expats were living life on the same level as most Thais they wouldn't be flocking to Thailand the way that they do now.

Expats exploit an income/wealth inequality to live a life better than they could live back home. I don't mean the world "exploit" to be negative. It's simply an accurate description of why many expats come to Thailand. Any time you take advantage of a inefficiency in the market, you're exploiting it.

It's a tough question though because the dynamics of everything would change if the situation were different. If Thailand had the economy that SIngapore or Hong Kong does, expats would still come to Thailand but it would be the same kinds of expats that you see in Hong Kong and Singapore and less like the expats you see in Thailand. Many of the expats living in Thailand today might hate a Thailand that had an economy that was buzzing like HKG and Sing. They wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle they live with their current jobs.

Re myself, I have to disagree that I have a better life in Thailand because I have more money than a Thai, as I probably have less to spend than a middle class Thai, given that the majority of my money is for the visa extension, and I have to live on around 10,000 to 15,000 a month. Obviously I live better than a Thai on 5,000 a month, but I'm not living in a condo and having NZ lamb for dinner on my available funds.

The reason I like Thailand ( leaving aside my wife ), is that it's usually warm/ hot, cheap to eat, cheap transport, cheap movies/ DVDs and there are more pretty girls to enjoy than back home. Plus, it's way less PC and regulated, and I feel safer there from being mugged etc.

Obviously it's different strokes for different folks but a good chunk of all the reasons you listed are financial. So what I was saying is that if the economic conditions improved in Thailand and everything became more expensive, as in on HKG and Sing levels, would you still find Thailand to be the nirvana you think it is today? I'm sorry but if "visa extension" is something that you factor into your cost of living, you would probably be priced out of Thailand. What if 50,000 - 100,000 was what it took to maintain your current lifestyle?

Realistically, many expats love living in Thailand because they live better, relatively, than they could back home. Yes, the weather is nice, the food is nice, the girls are nice, etc, etc but for the majority of people, it's the cost of living. Take away that, and Thailand is no longer the heaven on earth many people view it as today.

I know very few expats that would have ever moved to Thailand or who would stay in Thailand if they had to live on 5,000 - 10,000 baht a month. The food, weather, girls, etc are not nice enough to overcome that culture shock :-)

[benalibina]

The GF has for two years out of four asked to leave Thailand. I'm the one who has resisted, wanting to give Thailand "another chance."

But after my latest two experiences, one yesterday, and one today, I called her an hour ago.

Looking to be stateside together by July. We're both excited.

Any chance of a new topic ....about your last 2 experiences

[thailiketoo]

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Despite some television shows, I don't think most doctors in the US live a rockstar lifestyle. That is especially true for new doctors who have to complete a residency that lasts anywhere from 1 - 7 years and during which, they're not paid all that well. Then, they can start paying off their six-figure student loans (which can run $250,000 - $500,000) :-)

To be honest, I don't know why so many Thai doctors return to Thailand. However, you tell a slightly skewed story where India, Pakistan, and the Philippines have no doctors because they call go to the US. Obviously that is not the case. So, many of the doctors trained in the US do return to their home countries. Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that.

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

The following list ranks the top 20 countries where the largest numbers of U.S. physicians trained.

1. India - 19.9% (47,581)
2. Philippines - 8.7% (20,861)
3. Mexico - 5.8% (13,929)
4. Pakistan - 4.8% (11,330)

Thailand was not in the top 20

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/international-medical-graduates/imgs-in-united-states/imgs-country-origin.page

Edited April 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Scarpolo]

If Thailand is so bad, why do so many of us expats want nothing more than to be able to live out our lives there?

Thailand is good for expats exactly for many of the reasons that it's bad for Thais.

Eighty percent of Thais live in relative poverty. That means your typical expat can make a teacher's salary and still seem like he's doing well. I can assure you that if expats were living life on the same level as most Thais they wouldn't be flocking to Thailand the way that they do now.

Expats exploit an income/wealth inequality to live a life better than they could live back home. I don't mean the world "exploit" to be negative. It's simply an accurate description of why many expats come to Thailand. Any time you take advantage of a inefficiency in the market, you're exploiting it.

It's a tough question though because the dynamics of everything would change if the situation were different. If Thailand had the economy that SIngapore or Hong Kong does, expats would still come to Thailand but it would be the same kinds of expats that you see in Hong Kong and Singapore and less like the expats you see in Thailand. Many of the expats living in Thailand today might hate a Thailand that had an economy that was buzzing like HKG and Sing. They wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle they live with their current jobs.

Re myself, I have to disagree that I have a better life in Thailand because I have more money than a Thai, as I probably have less to spend than a middle class Thai, given that the majority of my money is for the visa extension, and I have to live on around 10,000 to 15,000 a month. Obviously I live better than a Thai on 5,000 a month, but I'm not living in a condo and having NZ lamb for dinner on my available funds.

The reason I like Thailand ( leaving aside my wife ), is that it's usually warm/ hot, cheap to eat, cheap transport, cheap movies/ DVDs and there are more pretty girls to enjoy than back home. Plus, it's way less PC and regulated, and I feel safer there from being mugged etc.

Obviously it's different strokes for different folks but a good chunk of all the reasons you listed are financial. So what I was saying is that if the economic conditions improved in Thailand and everything became more expensive, as in on HKG and Sing levels, would you still find Thailand to be the nirvana you think it is today? I'm sorry but if "visa extension" is something that you factor into your cost of living, you would probably be priced out of Thailand. What if 50,000 - 100,000 was what it took to maintain your current lifestyle?

Realistically, many expats love living in Thailand because they live better, relatively, than they could back home. Yes, the weather is nice, the food is nice, the girls are nice, etc, etc but for the majority of people, it's the cost of living. Take away that, and Thailand is no longer the heaven on earth many people view it as today.

I know very few expats that would have ever moved to Thailand or who would stay in Thailand if they had to live on 5,000 - 10,000 baht a month. The food, weather, girls, etc are not nice enough to overcome that culture shock :-)

while it is possible to live a decent life on far less than many of us spend in thailand,

the question becomes, but why?

the SE of the USA is as cheap to live as thailand,

there is no nightlife that isnt expensive no matter where you are, and most women are emplyed there, so they dont need a Flange to take care of their family

as each day passes, I will forget thailand exists

[benalibina]

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Despite some television shows, I don't think most doctors in the US live a rockstar lifestyle. That is especially true for new doctors who have to complete a residency that lasts anywhere from 1 - 7 years and during which, they're not paid all that well. Then, they can start paying off their six-figure student loans (which can run $250,000 - $500,000) :-)

To be honest, I don't know why so many Thai doctors return to Thailand. However, you tell a slightly skewed story where India, Pakistan, and the Philippines have no doctors because they call go to the US. Obviously that is not the case. So, many of the doctors trained in the US do return to their home countries. Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that.

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

[thailiketoo]

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Despite some television shows, I don't think most doctors in the US live a rockstar lifestyle. That is especially true for new doctors who have to complete a residency that lasts anywhere from 1 - 7 years and during which, they're not paid all that well. Then, they can start paying off their six-figure student loans (which can run $250,000 - $500,000) :-)

To be honest, I don't know why so many Thai doctors return to Thailand. However, you tell a slightly skewed story where India, Pakistan, and the Philippines have no doctors because they call go to the US. Obviously that is not the case. So, many of the doctors trained in the US do return to their home countries. Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that.

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

What Is the Beginning Salary for a Plastic Surgeon?

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Is nonsense?

Are you able to string together a thought as to why you think the rest of my comment is nonsense or is that beyond your capabilities?

Edited April 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[benalibina]

I go to a hospital that has the photos of all of the doctors up on the wall along with their credentials. I'd say 1/3 have degrees from the USA, UK or Australia. Yet all have chosen to live and work in Thailand. Being a doctor they could get visas no problem in the West as there are many hospitals in the states with many doctors from other countries in my experience notably India and Pakistan. India, Pakistan and the Philippines the doctors move to the US. Thailand they study in the US and come back to Thailand to work. Many doctors in the States have rock star lifestyles, housing, cars and so on. So I think a Thai doctor could live higher on the hog in the US than Thailand.

Despite some television shows, I don't think most doctors in the US live a rockstar lifestyle. That is especially true for new doctors who have to complete a residency that lasts anywhere from 1 - 7 years and during which, they're not paid all that well. Then, they can start paying off their six-figure student loans (which can run $250,000 - $500,000) :-)

To be honest, I don't know why so many Thai doctors return to Thailand. However, you tell a slightly skewed story where India, Pakistan, and the Philippines have no doctors because they call go to the US. Obviously that is not the case. So, many of the doctors trained in the US do return to their home countries. Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that.

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

I dont doubt your figures. Referring to your last paragraph. They dont care about using correct english....etc.

Sorry for the confusion.

Hopefully post will be readable....too many quotes.

What Is the Beginning Salary for a Plastic Surgeon?

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Is nonsense?

Are you able to string together a thought as to why you think the rest of my comment is nonsense or is that beyond your capabilities?

[benalibina]

Sorry TLT...its all mixed up.

[digibum]

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

Agreed.

However, even the comment that Thais like living in Thailand is predicated on the fact that the vast majority of Thais have no idea what living outside of Thailand is like. I think it would be much more interesting if you compared Thais who have lived in another country.

[benalibina]

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

Agreed.

However, even the comment that Thais like living in Thailand is predicated on the fact that the vast majority of Thais have no idea what living outside of Thailand is like. I think it would be much more interesting if you compared Thais who have lived in another country.

I compare it to what has been my experience with thais living in my country. They...most of them ....given the

choice...would want to live in Thailand. Need to say that most of them only have thai friends and hang around in their small circle.

[thailiketoo]

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/beginning-salary-plastic-surgeon-5563.html

Several other sources track physician salaries, and provide further insight into plastic surgery's earning potential. For example, the American Medical Group Association's 2012 salary survey places the median salary for plastic surgeons at $409,772 per year. The rival Medical Group Management Association, in a 2011 survey, reported an average salary of $433,510 for plastic and reconstructive surgeons. A 2011 special issue of "Modern Healthcare" magazine reviewed multiple physician salary surveys, returning a range of responses for plastic surgeons. The lowest reported average in that overview was $360,000 per year, and the highest was $450,000 per year.

In Baht that is 14,850,000 per year.

You wrote, " Why do so many Thai doctors migrate back to Thailand? I don't have a good answer to that."

I do. The great majority of Thais like living in Thailand. The upset ones or the ones who buy into the myth of Western superiority are actually quite small. That's why you see all of the errors in English language signs and publications. They just don't give a darn about your language or country or society.

I agree with you that most thais like living in thailand. The rest of your comment is utter nonsense.

Agreed.

However, even the comment that Thais like living in Thailand is predicated on the fact that the vast majority of Thais have no idea what living outside of Thailand is like. I think it would be much more interesting if you compared Thais who have lived in another country.

That's why I compared medical students/doctors (same for dentists). If they wanted to work in the USA they could earn 15 million baht per year but they they don't. I doubt most medical students have not at least traveled outside of Thailand for extended periods of time.