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Stop paying AC costs. New Way.


gypsyrodeo

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C’mon chaps, give the guy a break. Although he’s a tad lost on the laws of thermodynamics, his heart’s in the right place and it’s a neat idea.

While of course if a fridge were used to make the ice, it will have to expend more energy (that there are frozen things in there already doesn’t mean it won't need to work again and consequently make more heat, ole bean), when compared with what the aircon needs to do to cool an entire room, it is a fraction of what this contraption + fridge output needs to do to cool one’s personal space. In addition, extra heat generated by the fridge would meld into the ambient, unless perhaps your digs is 6ft x 6ft.

Let’s throw some arbitrary figures out there, shall we: he might be using, for instance, 50Wh to cool himself as opposed to, say, 750Wh to cool the entire room to cool himself. But of course if the ice is free and he used a solar-powered fan (battery at night), then make that 0Wh. And, as correctly stated, it should not raise humidity much as, condensate aside, the water stays in the bottles.

Just a couple of points for those considering making one: Use a large 6 litre bottle to retain ice mass longer (though several smaller ones would likely make it colder faster). Suspend the bottle(s) slightly so air flow can get all around and also compartmentalise (easier when using one large bottle) so the air does a loopy loop. Also don’t use too big or voluminous a fan as it’ll probably push the ambient air through too fast, thus there’d be less of a cooling affect.

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C’mon chaps, give the guy a break. Although he’s a tad lost on the laws of thermodynamics, his heart’s in the right place and it’s a neat idea.

While of course if a fridge were used to make the ice, it will have to expend more energy (that there are frozen things in there already doesn’t mean it won't need to work again and consequently make more heat, ole bean), when compared with what the aircon needs to do to cool an entire room, it is a fraction of what this contraption + fridge output needs to do to cool one’s personal space. In addition, extra heat generated by the fridge would meld into the ambient, unless perhaps your digs is 6ft x 6ft.

Let’s throw some arbitrary figures out there, shall we: he might be using, for instance, 50Wh to cool himself as opposed to, say, 750Wh to cool the entire room to cool himself. But of course if the ice is free and he used a solar-powered fan (battery at night), then make that 0Wh. And, as correctly stated, it should not raise humidity much as, condensate aside, the water stays in the bottles.

Just a couple of points for those considering making one: Use a large 6 litre bottle to retain ice mass longer (though several smaller ones would likely make it colder faster). Suspend the bottle(s) slightly so air flow can get all around and also compartmentalise (easier when using one large bottle) so the air does a loopy loop. Also don’t use too big or voluminous a fan as it’ll probably push the ambient air through too fast, thus there’d be less of a cooling affect.

genius.clap2.gif

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For those who think refrigerators and freezers use much less electricity than air conditioners, you might want to check out http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/refrigerators.html What is especially interesting is that running an ice maker in the freezer can as much as double the already high cost of operating the freezer. Making ice requires a lot of energy.

Below I describe four circumstance in which someone might consider using this device, however the device is only suitable, in a qualified manner, in two. In describing the circumstances and briefly explaining the reasons to use or not use the device, I assume comparisons of freezers and air conditioners of the same age and repair, so they have similar efficiencies. Comparing appliances of different ages and efficiencies would open endless apples and oranges comparisons. Also, when I write "cool the room" I mean cooling the entire room in an approximately uniform manner.

1. Using this device to cool the room that the freezer used to make the ice is in, which is common in studio condos and apartments. This is a very bad idea, as I explained in post #70. You will have a net gain in heat, and you will be paying for the electricity to heat the room.

2. Using the device instead of an air conditioner to cool a room that doesn't contain the freezer. The device will be effective, but you will need to routinely open the door of the room as you replace bottles of ice, losing cool air each time. Plus, unless your freezer is outside, you will be heating the room with the freezer. So you are better off using the air conditioner and keeping the door closed.

3. Using the device to cool a room that doesn't have an air conditioner. Here the device will be effective, but it would be just as effective to have a container of ice and directing the air from a fan on the ice. The majority of the cooling comes from melting the ice, with a little extra cooling from increasing the water temperature. The pipes in the device only serve to direct the flow of the cool air, which is unnecessary if you want to cool the entire room.

4. Using the device to direct a stream of cool air on a specific location. The device is good at that. If this makes you comfortable it will be more cost effective than air conditioning an entire room.

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C’mon chaps, give the guy a break. Although he’s a tad lost on the laws of thermodynamics, his heart’s in the right place and it’s a neat idea.

While of course if a fridge were used to make the ice, it will have to expend more energy (that there are frozen things in there already doesn’t mean it won't need to work again and consequently make more heat, ole bean), when compared with what the aircon needs to do to cool an entire room, it is a fraction of what this contraption + fridge output needs to do to cool one’s personal space. In addition, extra heat generated by the fridge would meld into the ambient, unless perhaps your digs is 6ft x 6ft.

Let’s throw some arbitrary figures out there, shall we: he might be using, for instance, 50Wh to cool himself as opposed to, say, 750Wh to cool the entire room to cool himself. But of course if the ice is free and he used a solar-powered fan (battery at night), then make that 0Wh. And, as correctly stated, it should not raise humidity much as, condensate aside, the water stays in the bottles.

Just a couple of points for those considering making one: Use a large 6 litre bottle to retain ice mass longer (though several smaller ones would likely make it colder faster). Suspend the bottle(s) slightly so air flow can get all around and also compartmentalise (easier when using one large bottle) so the air does a loopy loop. Also don’t use too big or voluminous a fan as it’ll probably push the ambient air through too fast, thus there’d be less of a cooling affect.

When speaking of fans, how many Cubic Feet per Metre do you suggest and how much static pressure would you recommend?

Also would you recommend positive air pressure or negative?

I'm thinking of a triple fan design, your input would be welcome.

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C’mon chaps, give the guy a break. Although he’s a tad lost on the laws of thermodynamics, his heart’s in the right place and it’s a neat idea.

While of course if a fridge were used to make the ice, it will have to expend more energy (that there are frozen things in there already doesn’t mean it won't need to work again and consequently make more heat, ole bean), when compared with what the aircon needs to do to cool an entire room, it is a fraction of what this contraption + fridge output needs to do to cool one’s personal space. In addition, extra heat generated by the fridge would meld into the ambient, unless perhaps your digs is 6ft x 6ft.

Let’s throw some arbitrary figures out there, shall we: he might be using, for instance, 50Wh to cool himself as opposed to, say, 750Wh to cool the entire room to cool himself. But of course if the ice is free and he used a solar-powered fan (battery at night), then make that 0Wh. And, as correctly stated, it should not raise humidity much as, condensate aside, the water stays in the bottles.

Just a couple of points for those considering making one: Use a large 6 litre bottle to retain ice mass longer (though several smaller ones would likely make it colder faster). Suspend the bottle(s) slightly so air flow can get all around and also compartmentalise (easier when using one large bottle) so the air does a loopy loop. Also don’t use too big or voluminous a fan as it’ll probably push the ambient air through too fast, thus there’d be less of a cooling affect.

When speaking of fans, how many Cubic Feet per Metre do you suggest and how much static pressure would you recommend?

Also would you recommend positive air pressure or negative?

I'm thinking of a triple fan design, your input would be welcome.

Positive air pressure.

Negative air pressure sucks tongue.png

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When speaking of fans, how many Cubic Feet per Metre do you suggest and how much static pressure would you recommend?

Also would you recommend positive air pressure or negative?

I'm thinking of a triple fan design, your input would be welcome.

if you use multiple fans their combined pressure should be at least 104 pounds per square inch and a minimum torque of 8.96 newtonmeter.

ermm.gif

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Only today I had the wife asking me to check out the insulation costs to line the top floor ceiling.

As the air con is simply ineffective these days.

I don't want to risk climbing in the roof space so I will try this tomorrow.

Certainly easy to do, and if I pull it off I am going to be very popular with my girls rolleyes.gif

Good idea about the bottled water aswell, saves on flooding I suppose.

a trip to makro tomorrow for me.

Years ago in Chiang Rai I lived in a two story house which had no insulation in the roof. I bought some rolls of insulated sheeting from one of the building supplies stores and climbed up a ladder and poked it through the manhole and was able to push it around until I had covered most of the roof area. You just cut it with a trimming knife and it is stiff enough to be able to push around.

Made an immediate difference to the temperature of the house upstairs. Worth every penny I paid for it and the job did not take long.

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Thanks Gypsy Rodeo.
I'm going to make one tomorrow.
I already have a small 12V fan.
Will go buy a 12V solar panel, cheap cooler and I have a piece of pipe.

I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks again.

Cool idea!

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Just added another design to my build, here's a clue.

Other than expensive dewars, which can keep the liquid nitrogen for a long time, you can also keep it in just a plain styrofoam cooler of some kind. This will work pretty well. If you are going to try using a styrofoam cooler, make sure you get one whose sides are as thick as possible, both for insulation and strength (you don't want it cracking and spilling liquid nitrogen on someone).

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When speaking of fans, how many Cubic Feet per Metre do you suggest and how much static pressure would you recommend?

Also would you recommend positive air pressure or negative?

I'm thinking of a triple fan design, your input would be welcome.

if you use multiple fans their combined pressure should be at least 104 pounds per square inch and a minimum torque of 8.96 newtonmeter.

ermm.gif

That should give impressive results, especially if you pack the cooler with crushed ice. You will get an immediate cooling effect.

Safety tip: Don't stand too close to the cooler when you turn on the fans.

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Why all this resistance to this revolutionary new discovery?

Galileo and Copernicus faced similar skepticism and resistance but that must have being dozens of Years in the past. We are now considerably more advanced , and we have Styrofoam.Why cant al these naysayers eccept this scientific miracle and embrace this new technology?

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an inherent flaw in this design is that the tubing coming out of the Styrofoam cooler is red.

White tubing would significantly aid in the transfer of coolness .

everybody knows that red is hotter than white

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It's not technically Styrofoam it's polystyrene. Styrofoam is Dow Corning's own brand name of their product derived from polystyrene.

Rather than be pedantic though I will continue referring to it in this thread as Styrofoam.

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It's not technically Styrofoam it's polystyrene. Styrofoam is Dow Corning's own brand name of their product derived from polystyrene.

Rather than be pedantic though I will continue referring to it in this thread as Styrofoam.

A rose by any other name.....smile.png

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It's not technically Styrofoam it's polystyrene. Styrofoam is Dow Corning's own brand name of their product derived from polystyrene.

Rather than be pedantic though I will continue referring to it in this thread as Styrofoam.

A rose by any other name.....smile.png

Will be sold at a marked up price for Mother's Day.

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When speaking of fans, how many Cubic Feet per Metre do you suggest and how much static pressure would you recommend?

Also would you recommend positive air pressure or negative?

I'm thinking of a triple fan design, your input would be welcome.

if you use multiple fans their combined pressure should be at least 104 pounds per square inch and a minimum torque of 8.96 newtonmeter.

ermm.gif

That should give impressive results, especially if you pack the cooler with crushed ice. You will get an immediate cooling effect.

Safety tip: Don't stand too close to the cooler when you turn on the fans.

working on multiple fans w/ battery

post-143564-0-78893000-1399190687_thumb.

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OK, made a quick one this morning after going to a shop and buying 8" fan and 2 1/2 " elbow.

Found an old cheap cooler that I used.

Sitting here now enjoying some cool air blowing on me.

But, I want to get a solar panel as I have a 12V fan.

I want to use it for camping.

Will need a battery too I guess.

But, we love camping, it just gets too damn hot in Thailand much of the time.

Thanks for the thread.

My neighbors are already envious.

ps. bought a block of ice that perfectly fits the cooler for 20 baht.

Now, to see how long it lasts.

IMG_4437.jpg

please let us know how long the 20 baht of ice lasts..ive found that cooling continues at close to same level for quite awhile after the complete melt because the fan air is hitting cold water..i love my STYROFOAM ac..ill never go back to the expensive ones

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OK, experiment finished.
Ice lasted about 6 hours but water was still cold and pushing cold air into 7 hours.

But, I don't think it's going to be feasible to cool your house, or even bedroom more than a little bit.

And it seems a bit dangerous when that cheap styrofoam cooler is full of cold water.
It is heavy, you can't pick it up, when you drag it across the floor to dump it, it tries to slosh out.

So, I spent $10 and had some fun, and will still probably take it camping once I get a solar panel to cool the tent at night.

Sorry Gypsy-rodeo. Maybe a small room, but you better have it near the bathroom so you can dump it easily.

I don't believe the frozen coke bottles are going to give enough cool temps like the block of ice did.
I could be wrong.

Good luck.

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OK, experiment finished.

Ice lasted about 6 hours but water was still cold and pushing cold air into 7 hours.

But, I don't think it's going to be feasible to cool your house, or even bedroom more than a little bit.

And it seems a bit dangerous when that cheap styrofoam cooler is full of cold water.

It is heavy, you can't pick it up, when you drag it across the floor to dump it, it tries to slosh out.

So, I spent $10 and had some fun, and will still probably take it camping once I get a solar panel to cool the tent at night.

Sorry Gypsy-rodeo. Maybe a small room, but you better have it near the bathroom so you can dump it easily.

I don't believe the frozen coke bottles are going to give enough cool temps like the block of ice did.

I could be wrong.

Good luck.

don't let heybruce see this post..but it will work on a camping trip for a tent?…any improvements you can think of for the next STYROFOAM ac prototype?thumbsup.gif.pagespeed.ce.dtxKiAJ9C7.gif

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OK, experiment finished.

Ice lasted about 6 hours but water was still cold and pushing cold air into 7 hours.

But, I don't think it's going to be feasible to cool your house, or even bedroom more than a little bit.

And it seems a bit dangerous when that cheap styrofoam cooler is full of cold water.

It is heavy, you can't pick it up, when you drag it across the floor to dump it, it tries to slosh out.

So, I spent $10 and had some fun, and will still probably take it camping once I get a solar panel to cool the tent at night.

Sorry Gypsy-rodeo. Maybe a small room, but you better have it near the bathroom so you can dump it easily.

I don't believe the frozen coke bottles are going to give enough cool temps like the block of ice did.

I could be wrong.

Good luck.

don't let heybruce see this post..but it will work on a camping trip for a tent?…any improvements you can think of for the next STYROFOAM ac prototype?thumbsup.gif.pagespeed.ce.dtxKiAJ9C7.gif

Though a good first attempt, I have a few simple modifications that would aid in cooling a normal size room

First I would take the Styrofoam cooler and place it on a self about 2,5 m high, load it with ice and plug it in, then install a drain pipe leading to the outside of the house that will aid in draining melted water and help water plants in the garden

Next to it I I will install a 14,000 btu Panasonic split unit A/C which I will also plug in, once the room has reached desired temperature, I will remove the Styrpfoam Cooling devise and swiftly throw it out the window hitting the dog that was barking all night keeping me up, squarely on the head thus in addition to the excellent cooling, disposing of that pesky dog also. If you don't have a dog, the devise can also be used toward , annoying neighbors, visiting in-laws, and matting geckos.

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I do think it works just fine.
Just a bit messy and will only cool a small area.
Keep in mind, my area isn't (wasn't) insulated properly (gaps under the door, windows just single pane and don't shut tight)

I'm not saying it doesn't work.
Just that it doesn't seem worth the trouble in the home and too easy to spill the water (especially with an 8 year old around)

But, thanks for the thread and idea.
I try to stay open-minded about ideas to improve my life without unhealthy methods (regular air-con) and big costs.

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OK, so I've sovled my mother-in-law's humidity problem......

Instead of attempting to reduce the actual humidity, it was easier to adjust the senses of the person(s) using the wonderous air-con box.

As we all know, the human body isn't particularly good at judging environment, so if the mother-in-law wears PVC underwear, thus increasing some localised humidity, the ambient room humidity is not noticed......

She is recently widowed, so no nocturnal side-effects to worry about...

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I do think it works just fine.

Just a bit messy and will only cool a small area.

Use dry ice rather than ice which is -78.5°C and doesn't leave a mess, nothing to clean up or drain afterwards. wink.png

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I do think it works just fine.

Just a bit messy and will only cool a small area.

Use dry ice rather than ice which is -78.5°C and doesn't leave a mess, nothing to clean up or drain afterwards. wink.png

I had that idea but then realised it would cause death.

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I do think it works just fine.

Just a bit messy and will only cool a small area.

Use dry ice rather than ice which is -78.5°C and doesn't leave a mess, nothing to clean up or drain afterwards. wink.png

I had that idea but then realised it would cause death.

What you did not realize is that,

Death would greatly contribute , to not only making the room cooler (no more body heat) but also making it feel a lot cooler.

Who's feeling stupid now?wink.png

Edited by sirineou
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I do think it works just fine.

Just a bit messy and will only cool a small area.

Use dry ice rather than ice which is -78.5°C and doesn't leave a mess, nothing to clean up or drain afterwards. wink.png

I had that idea but then realised it would cause death.

I've put dry ice in my mouth and tumbled it around quickly to create "smoke" that i puffed out in smoke rings as a party trick..have been doing it for years…how does it cause death?…dry ice lasts a LONG time and may be exactly what is needed…i just don't get this death thing

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