Bike rental dispute

[papa al]

A friend who rented a bike had a minor accident.

The rental company wants an exorbitant amount to settle.

They told him that they have placed some kind of a lien or hold on his passport number such that he will not be able to leave the country until they are satisfied.

Can this be real, or is it just a scare tactic.

[macknife]

Of course they can't. A motorbike rental shop has no sway with immigration. They could of course have some influence with the local police, which if he's on a small island could prove to be problematic.

What kind of bike is it?

[papa al]

It is a Nouvo, but I fail to see how that is relevant.

[Richard-BKK]

The problem is if there's no signed rental contract, the rental company can make all sort of claims what is the policy. In general, if there is no contract, and the person who rented the vehicle didn't pay extra for full cover insurance, all damage to the vehicle is the responsibility of the person who rented the vehicle.

Often it's cheaper to contact the motorcycle dealer direct and let them repair it on your cost. But on most tourist islands no Yamaha dealer available you probably will need to pay what ever the rental company is asking...

[papa al]

Some sort of contract or rental agreement was signed.

No island is involved.

Company says friend cannot have it repaired independently.

I suspect they want him to pay big-time, then in collusion with the repair shop, they also will turn in an inflated claim to their insurance company.

A very profitable business model, I'm told.

Is anyone sure about the passport hold thing?

In the States filing a lien is very easy.

Edited April 26, 2014 by papa al

[Shurup]

Lien on a PP - smells like BS to me. If he didn't sign any lien documents himself then there's no lien, otherwise it would've been too easy to scam people with just knowing their PP number or even having a photo copy of it.

Sent from my mobile, whatever mobile it is.

[wantan]

Sorry, don't know if he can get in trouble leaving the coutry, but it wouldn't suprise me. Guess it depends on the amount of money involved. Don't think they stop people at the airport to collect 1000 Baht for a rental shop

But imo it is relevant what kind of damage your friend did and how much money they want for repair. He damaged the bike so he has to pay. Of course the rental shops want compensation for every day they cannot rent the bike to customers. They have to transport the bike to repair shop and such things.

And of course they want more money than they will spend fixing the bike. Most shops would do this.

Never heard rental shops have insurance. No company wants to insure their bikes. Thats why all these problems...

[wantan]

Just an idea:

If its just a minor damge and he is sure its just a few plastic fairings or brake lever that have to be replace, just go to http://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/Catalog/ and print out a list with the damaged parts and the prices.

Then take the list to the rental shop and try to negotiate politely. Aks them why they want more money and try to write down their list of prices. Like this your friend shows he takes the damage serious and maybe he will be able to lower the amount.

Example-PDF attached, but i suggest to also print it in thai language

my_picklist.pdf

Edited April 26, 2014 by wantan

[Richard-BKK]

I know of one case where a person had an accident on one of the famous islands, he applied at his embassy for a temporary passport as he told the embassy he lost his original. He made it of the island, made it to Bangkok to pickup his passport at the embassy and was taken at the airport after passport control.

Was after two days transferred to Bangkok Metropolitan police and was told that he had to pay a fine, plus that he needed to settle (pay) the Thai rental company.

End of the story was he paid a good amount more, a fine something I don't know, the damage to the motorcycle in full... and he missed his flight... Plus that he had to stay in a Thai police lockup what is not really recommended....

The truth is that if you rent a motorcycle / scooter in Thailand be extremely careful who you select. And make sure that you have full cover insurance which also covers the damage to the motorcycle / scooter in case you have an accident... If a rental company says not have insurance full cover don't rent the bike... move to the next one.

Also make sure you have an motorcycle “drivers” license, a motorcycle /scooter rental doesn't really ask for it... but for anything with engine and two wheels you need a drivers license...(with exception if you 16 or 17 years old, in that case you can ride a 110cc scooter).

[thepool]

I have no idea about "liens" but the m/c hire company could lodge a complaint with the police which could prove very unsettling for the OP. The police in turn could take steps to ensure the OP did not make a "runner" prior to any outstanding dept being settled.

Best come to a sensible , negotiated settlement.

[papa al]

Thanks for the replies.

He got a quote from a repair shop but the rental shop wants >3x as much.

The rental people don't seem to be too keen on a logical or fair approach.

Where would be the profit in that?

As for him having to sign a "lien" or similar document, I doubt it.

But I really don't know the laws here.

Hence the thread.

I could file a spurious mechanic's lien on anyone's real estate in America without them even knowing.

$15-20 at the courthouse...they are liened.

Many contractors file a lien when they begin work and release it when they are paid in full.

Nothing personal, just sound business practice.

A vendor like, a lumber yard, can file a lien on a home even if the homeowner has paid contractor 100%.

Homeowner should always get a "lien waver' from all of the suppliers the contractor uses, before they deliver anything..

Edited April 26, 2014 by papa al

[Richard-BKK]

Monday call the Thai Office of the Consumer Protection Board for free, number 1166 (they speak English).

Since 2013 Thailand has new rules for vehicle rent, which also include a reasonable compensation if the person who rented the vehicle has damaged the vehicle during the rental period.

From my experience when the Office of the Consumer Protection Board gets involved the issues are very quickly resolved... I once had a motorcycle dealer not pay back my deposit one telephone call from the Office of the Consumer Protection Board and the money was transferred to my bank account...

[papa al]

Here's the plan:

Have bike fixed at Yamaha shop.

Return it to the rental shop.

Let the rental shop keep the B2000 deposit.

Write up an account of the whole affair and copy to Police & Consumer Protection Board.

Hope for the best at airport.

Thanks all.

[Richard-BKK]

Your friend probably also have to compensate the rental company while the motorcycle / scooter is out for repair. So lets hope that the Yamaha shop has all parts available as ordering from Bangkok will probably take a few days...

[ATF]

This scam is as old as somtam. Tell the shop he needs his passport to go to the bank or Western Union to get the cash. Then skip town. No one will be waiting at the airport.

[Som wat]

Who has his PP?

Go there with the price list, along with a witness or two, preferably Thai.

[seedy]

I have never found a bike rental company that has insurance to cover you, just them.

When I was shopping for another bike, I rented a Versys. I was not covered at all, but there was an agreed amount that I had to pay if the bike was stolen or a complete write-off. Also any damages caused by me, or by somebody else that was not backed up by their drivers license number and a copy of the police report, was my fault and must be paid by me. I.E - hit and run.

I checked with three insurance agents, including the one my HD is covered by, and was told the same thing by each of them - if the bike is not in your name we will not insure it.

[Alwayssunny]

Some sort of contract or rental agreement was signed.

No island is involved.

Company says friend cannot have it repaired independently.

I suspect they want him to pay big-time, then in collusion with the repair shop, they also will turn in an inflated claim to their insurance company.

A very profitable business model, I'm told.

Is anyone sure about the passport hold thing?

In the States filing a lien is very easy.

How many more times do people need to be told "NEVER LEAVE YOUR PASSPORT WITH ANYONE"

Sent from my GT-I8552 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Som wat]

I have never found a bike rental company that has insurance to cover you, just them.

When I was shopping for another bike, I rented a Versys. I was not covered at all, but there was an agreed amount that I had to pay if the bike was stolen or a complete write-off. Also any damages caused by me, or by somebody else that was not backed up by their drivers license number and a copy of the police report, was my fault and must be paid by me. I.E - hit and run.

I checked with three insurance agents, including the one my HD is covered by, and was told the same thing by each of them - if the bike is not in your name we will not insure it.

I don't follow your last piece. It doesn't actually make sense. The vehicle has to be in somebody's name.

Do you mean that the insurance companies will only cover any payment if the named owner of the bike is driving it?

I bought a bike off a friend, it had (and has) first class insurance with Tokio Marine, on the insurance slip it lists the bike info and his name, we rang to change it and they said that he doesn't need to list another named driver, any driver with a valid driving license is covered by the insurance. So once that insurance is up, it will then be renewed in my name.

There are many farangs with vehicles in their Thai partner's name, are you saying that they are not insured to drive them, only the person who is named as the owner of the vehicle?

[thrilled]

Best bet,ya gamble when ya rent.If there's A problem be prepared to open your wallet.Many of these rental businesses have minimal insurance at best.

[thepool]

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Some sort of contract or rental agreement was signed.

No island is involved.

Company says friend cannot have it repaired independently.

I suspect they want him to pay big-time, then in collusion with the repair shop, they also will turn in an inflated claim to their insurance company.

A very profitable business model, I'm told.

Is anyone sure about the passport hold thing?

In the States filing a lien is very easy.

This is Thailand NOT the States .

US "law" has no standing here !

Best he pays !

[Taunusianer]

Since 2013 Thailand has new rules for vehicle rent, which also include a reasonable compensation if the person who rented the vehicle has damaged the vehicle during the rental peri.

ﾠ

Do you have a link about that to understand the details.

Thanks

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[seedy]

I don't follow your last piece. It doesn't actually make sense. The vehicle has to be in somebody's name.

The thread is about rental bikes, and so is my reply.

Insurance companies will not insure a rental bike, to a person who rents said bike, because they are not the owner. The bike rental company is.

If you drive a private persons motorcycle or car - no problem. The vehicle is insured in Thailand, not the driver. So long as you have a Thai drivers license you can drive any vehicle in that class.

Edited April 26, 2014 by seedy

[Pralaad]

Yes it can be real, if they have a connection in immigration, they can provide his passport number and he can be placed on computer alert in the airport.

This service does cost money

Best is to negotiate and involve police, tourist police.

Get independent quotes on what it would cost and agree to pay ONLY this amount.

In fairness, perhaps paying for 1-2 more days of rental for bike being out would be fair.

PS. i am not just speaking out of my backside, but i use to rent bikes and have a friend with big bike rental business, over 250 bikes.

[Pralaad]

I don't follow your last piece. It doesn't actually make sense. The vehicle has to be in somebody's name.

The thread is about rental bikes, and so is my reply.

Insurance companies will not insure a rental bike, to a person who rents said bike, because they are not the owner. The bike rental company is.

If you drive a private persons motorcycle or car - no problem. The vehicle is insured in Thailand, not the driver. So long as you have a Thai drivers license you can drive any vehicle in that class.

Incorrect

Insurance company's offer option of one driver or any driver.

HOWEVER insurance company will not pay to driver without local license and this is written in small print right on the bottom, so taking out insurance without Thai drivers license is totally useless.

[roderz]

A "lien"by definition means physical possession. Therefore, if the rental company is not holding the actual passport, there can be no lien, in which case the owner, having possession of his/her passport, is free to use it for travel.

[YipYipYa123]

A "lien"by definition means physical possession. Therefore, if the rental company is not holding the actual passport, there can be no lien, in which case the owner, having possession of his/her passport, is free to use it for travel.

runnning away from a repair bill for a bike your "friend " crashed is a pretty shitty thing to do

if it were me ,id do my best to settle with the company |(suggest a discount is my idea ) and if your not happy dont use them again

you did crash their bike ,spare parts are almost NEVER in stock anywhere in thailand

_+ costs incurred for lost rental and transport fees to the repair centre and back etc before they can rent it again ...

i understand you think theyre charging too much based on repaior quotes alone but think of the ballaches they have to go through to

get it fixed because of YOU (maybe a week or two wait on parts etc ) before you decide theyre robbing bar stewards .......

[cgphuket]

If they report him as making a bad debt or theft to the police/immigration, they might stop him at the airport and make him pay the claimed amount before he can go. It happened to a friend of mine. Best option is to take the bike to a neutral shop and have it fixed for a reasonable price...

[YipYipYa123]

If they report him as making a bad debt or theft to the police/immigration, they might stop him at the airport and make him pay the claimed amount before he can go. It happened to a friend of mine. Best option is to take the bike to a neutral shop and have it fixed for a reasonable price...

That doesn't fulfill contractual obligations if you read it properly, (nobody ever does though)

[Pralaad]

A "lien"by definition means physical possession. Therefore, if the rental company is not holding the actual passport, there can be no lien, in which case the owner, having possession of his/her passport, is free to use it for travel.

I would strongly suggest you do some light reading and DO NOT give out false information which may cause serious harm to people.

You can have 10 passports in your hand, however if all 10 are placed on alert, you will not be able to leave the country and would be arrested pending investigation.

This would be the worst possible scenario for being arrested, because no one in the airport knows the reason for arrest, so you would be locked up until station or office or officer which placed the alert decides to follow up on your arrest.