UN committee on torture to scrutinise Thailand's record on Wednesday

[Lite Beer]

UN committee on torture to scrutinise Thailand's record on Wednesday
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- The UN Committee Against Torture is due to review Thailand's record for the first time on Wednesday and Thursday in sessions that will be webcast live.

Thailand is one of 155 states who are parties to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and is required to undergo regular examination of its record before the committee of 10 independent experts.

The committee will engage in a dialogue with the Thai government delegation and also hear from non-government organisations.

The public sessions will take place from 10am on Wednesday and from 3pm on Thursday and can be viewed at: www.treatybodywebcast.org/

The regional office of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in Bangkok is hosting a live webcast of the Wednesday session at the UN Conference Centre in Bangkok.

-- The Nation 2014-04-27

[simple1]

Thailand ratified the Convention in 2007 and is obliged to report every year. I believe I am correct that this is the first time Thailand has responded to reporting/status requirements. Whilst torture is banned under the Thai Constitution I understand there is not any enabling legislation under the Criminal Code.

http://www.humanrights.asia/countries/thailand/torture-in-thailand

It’s good to see that steps are underway for a dialogue; hopefully Thai authorities will now step up and not continue the misinformation campaign regarding security forces / police abuses.

[issanaus]

"A State Party’s Undertakings

Most of the provisions of the Torture Convention deal with the obligations of the States parties. These obligations may be summarized as follows:

(i) Each State party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture. The prohibition against torture shall be absolute and shall be upheld also in a state of war and in other exceptional circumstances (article 2);

(ii) No State party may expel or extradite a person to a State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture (article 3);

(iii) Each State party shall ensure that acts of torture are serious criminal offences within its legal system (article 4);

(iv) Each State party shall, on certain conditions, take a person suspected of the offence of torture into custody and make a preliminary inquiry into the facts (article 6);

(v) Each State party shall either extradite a person suspected of the offence of torture or submit the case to its own authorities for prosecution (article 7);

(vi) Each State party shall ensure that its authorities make investigations when there is reasonable ground to believe that an act of torture has been committed (article 12);

(vii) Each State party shall ensure that an individual who alleges that he has been subjected to torture will have his case examined by the competent authorities (article 13);

(viii) Each State party shall ensure to victims of torture an enforceable right to fair and adequate compensation (article 14)."

http://legal.un.org/avl/ha/catcidtp/catcidtp.html

[Thaiisnotrequired]

Somebody... anybody.... quickly.... ten envelopes please!

[The stuttering parrot]

Oh boy a thread on torture!

This is going to be painful!

[geriatrickid]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

[chainarong]

The agony of it all , Thailand is under the U.N. microscope once again and for all the wrong reasons , human rights , illegal logging , pollution of water area's and other outstanding matters like Thaskins human rights investigation bodes no good of yet another systematic failure of Thailand's administration to perform a coercion government.

[Mister Fixit]

You think the Army is the only Government agency which could torture someone? Not the police? Not the Navy or Air Force? Not the DSI, CAPO, etc etc etc. Get real ...

[antimedia]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

What allegations are you rambling about? and don't the police factor in this whatsoever? Do you only read the headlines of each article before making a complete fool out of yourself every time you post.

[simple1]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

Apparently one of the reasons for the meeting is to review the Thai government 2013 report on compliance to the Convention.

Thai government signed and ratified the Convention so protocol would be for representatives of government to attend such as Ministry of Interior / Foriegn Affairs / Defense (?). Perhaps supported by some form of high level representation from military / police in the Thai delegation.

In Thailand there are legal provisions providing impunity from prosecution in the 1914 Martial Law Act and the 2005 emergency decree. In addition torture has yet to be defined as a crime in the Thai criminal code.

Not only the Thai military have been accussed of torture and other abuses. However, I believe the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces is on the public record that torture is now not tolerated; a different matter to prove this policy is actually enforced.

More detail from BKK Post; so a search "UN to probe Thai torture"

[Robby nz]

Then there are private citizens, like the case of the young Karan girl whose torturers were allowed to disappear.

A clear case of Govt agencies allowing them to abscond.

[noitom]

Live telecast of a UN hearing with Thais responding live. This should be the best entertainment in a long time.

[arthurwait]

Oh boy a thread on torture!

This is going to be painful!

Only if someone posts Iron Maiden.

[arthurwait]

I predict questions about lorries will bring tears.

[WoopyDoo]

They ought to call for 'popcorn man' and ask him to testify at the hearing.

'The police said if they couldn't beat a confession out of me, they would beat one INTO me.'

[bigbamboo]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

If the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government then the Minister of Defence is not doing her job.

But then you knew that already.

[winstonc]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

If the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government then the Minister of Defence is not doing her job.

But then you knew that already.

give him a break hes admitted hes a geriatric..

[simondan]

Torture is one of the more ineffective methods of getting accurate info anyway. People being tortured will tell you what they think you want to hear. Which is OK if you just want a snow job on someone. Or your object is humiliation.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gabruce]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

The King is the final head of the armed forces.

The Minister of Defense (Yingluck Shinawatra is caretaker Minister of Defense at the moment) is presumably in charge of the armed forces. So, since the government is supposedly in charge of the armed forces, they are the appropriate party. Also, it is the country of Thailand that signed the treaty. It's not specifically with the armed forces, it's with the country as a whole.

If I'm incorrect, please correct me.

[Local Drunk]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

The King is the final head of the armed forces.

The Minister of Defense (Yingluck Shinawatra is caretaker Minister of Defense at the moment) is presumably in charge of the armed forces. So, since the government is supposedly in charge of the armed forces, they are the appropriate party. Also, it is the country of Thailand that signed the treaty. It's not specifically with the armed forces, it's with the country as a whole.

If I'm incorrect, please correct me.

I think you nailed it.

[issanaus]

For example

"3. Article 5 of the Convention which provides: ‘Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in Article 4....." is interpreted by the Kingdom of Thailand to mean that the jurisdiction referred to in Article 5 shall be established in accordance with the current Thai Penal Code."

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?mtdsg_no=IV-9&chapter=4〈=en#EndDec

So each state is a party to the convention - and this case must be able to amend there laws to be consistent with the provisions of the treaty

Therefor The Government is the representative of the state of Thailand .......

[h90]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

Well I recall when the USA tortured people in Thailand in Thai military prisons Thaksin called himself Bushs best friend and tried to speak Texas style English.

That doesn't sound like he opposed it....Can't remember he wrote an letter to the UN: Yes our military torture but I can't help it. Can't remember his red shirts ever demonstrate against it.

[Diddl]

Don’t see the UN doing anything about the biggest culprits, the US and Brits. Don’t see the UN doing anything about Guantanamo Bay or other detention camps, or extraordinary rendition! What a load of baloney! Why don’t they go after the true culprits? This is just another excuse for luxury dinners and get-togethers, and bla bla, anything to convince the public that the UN really cares and does something! Who elected the UN anyway? – No-one!

[geriatrickid]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

What allegations are you rambling about? and don't the police factor in this whatsoever? Do you only read the headlines of each article before making a complete fool out of yourself every time you post.

The issue reached the tipping point with the allegations in respect to the Rohingya. The current prosecution of the Phuketwan journalists was icing on the cake. Yes, the police can end do engage in activities which are illegal. However, the longstanding allegations of the detention and torture of migrants at the border, and of trafficking in migrants/refugees are what has brought the matter forward.

[geriatrickid]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

Well I recall when the USA tortured people in Thailand in Thai military prisons Thaksin called himself Bushs best friend and tried to speak Texas style English.

That doesn't sound like he opposed it....Can't remember he wrote an letter to the UN: Yes our military torture but I can't help it. Can't remember his red shirts ever demonstrate against it.

If Thaksin had a bit of a Texas twang it is because he spent a few years in Texas when he was completing his doctorate in criminal justice.

Yes, the UDD has protested against the allegations of torture, albeit in respect to UDD supporters who were arrested and detained by the military junta/Abhisit regime(s). Thaksin was right. A civilian Thai PM has little control over the military.

[geriatrickid]

Why is the UN talking to a Thai government delegation? The Thai government has no say in the matter.

The allegations involve the Thai military and the Thai military does not answer to the Thai government.

The UN should be directing its questions at the supreme commander of the Thai military as he is the one in charge and the only one who can order his troops to cease and desist from torture if there is torture taking place.

The King is the final head of the armed forces.

The Minister of Defense (Yingluck Shinawatra is caretaker Minister of Defense at the moment) is presumably in charge of the armed forces. So, since the government is supposedly in charge of the armed forces, they are the appropriate party. Also, it is the country of Thailand that signed the treaty. It's not specifically with the armed forces, it's with the country as a whole.

If I'm incorrect, please correct me.

A civilian is the nominal head of Thailand's military. The civilian is there to provide the legal niceties in respect to providing the financial budget for the military. The civilian defense minister, the civilian PM and the House have little authority over Thailand's military. The allegations in respect to torture are in most part related to the allegations of abuse of migrants/refugees. Yes, the King is ultimately the head of the armed forces. However, he can only do so much when it comes to the general administration of the military as it is the military command who are in charge of day to day operations.

[geriatrickid]

You think the Army is the only Government agency which could torture someone? Not the police? Not the Navy or Air Force? Not the DSI, CAPO, etc etc etc. Get real ...

That is why I said the military. It is the group which includes, the navy, airforce, army, specialized border units and special police squads.

There are no allegations of torture in respect to the DSI and CAPO. I don't dispute that the police engage in brutality. However, there have been no allegations of torture leveled against the RTP in respect to this inquiry. The impetus for the inquiry is from the past few years of stories on the treatment of migrants and refugees. The RTP have little involvement save for allegations of exploitation.

[simondan]

Don’t see the UN doing anything about the biggest culprits, the US and Brits. Don’t see the UN doing anything about Guantanamo Bay or other detention camps, or extraordinary rendition! What a load of baloney! Why don’t they go after the true culprits? This is just another excuse for luxury dinners and get-togethers, and bla bla, anything to convince the public that the UN really cares and does something! Who elected the UN anyway? – No-one!

So the small countries should be left to torture in peace while the UN only pursues the big boys? Thats sensible! And consistent!

This attitude that if it isnt perfect it should be scrapped is not going to add up in the harsh light of day.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jim walker]

And if they fail Thailand or bad mouth Thailand in any way they will all be locked up immediately without trial and water boarded.

[Diddl]

Don’t see the UN doing anything about the biggest culprits, the US and Brits. Don’t see the UN doing anything about Guantanamo Bay or other detention camps, or extraordinary rendition! What a load of baloney! Why don’t they go after the true culprits? This is just another excuse for luxury dinners and get-togethers, and bla bla, anything to convince the public that the UN really cares and does something! Who elected the UN anyway? – No-one!

So the small countries should be left to torture in peace while the UN only pursues the big boys? Thats sensible! And consistent!

This attitude that if it isnt perfect it should be scrapped is not going to add up in the harsh light of day.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, don’t twist my meaning. Go and fire your gun elsewhere! What I am saying is that nothing will be done as nothing has ever been done.