Worth adding LPG on an old VW Van?

[all4corners]

Hi all,

Have read some threads on this site about LPG conversion and feel its worth doing.

A few owners in the UK people have added LPG to VW Bay window vans, appears no issues, though the climate is very mild in comparison.

Do any of you guys with expertise and first hand experience recommend against it?

Its a 35yr old bay window, 2000cc strong engine, pretty solid, though tad thirsty!.

Also concerned with long runs given the Thai temperature, but read these vans were built for it having operated in deserts to snowy conditions, as long as they are set up correctly, though it aint no youngster... someone advised fitting an extra fan inside the engine bay to prevent over heating if stuck in traffic jams..

Is there any fuel recommendations if I dont go for the LPG, is it best to stick with 91 or 95 as i dont want to damage the engine with the wrong fuel...or do a ratio with the E fuels though its a little confusing....

I read on this forum the cost to be 30,000bht for the closed loop system which is said to be the best, whos the best professional LPG converter to use either in or close to Bangkok (close to BTS Bangna) though happy to travel out of town.... and a system that will compliment this old engine if thats relevant?

Hear some insurers wont cover you if your running LPG....

Does anyone have a similar aged VW or other old vehicle with the hard to find theft cover?.......im really struggling to acquire ..... and if so is there an agreed value out there.....

Any advice is greatly appreciated....& cheers again in advance,

A4C

[seedy]

A old style LPG conversion is around 20,000 baht. Injects propane directly into intake manifold. The newer style has an LPG injector for each cylinder.

LPG in Chaing Mai around 15 baht, gasahol 95 around 45 baht. Power on LPG will be down about 15 %

How long do you plan on keeping the van ? How many KM per year do you drive ? Will you have it long enuf to pay for the conversion ? Where do they put the tank in a VW van ?

All things to consider.

[WarpSpeed]

I'd caution not to, presumably you're referring to an older air cooled van, LP tends to run hotter then gasoline and over heating may become an issue. Especially under any kind of load conditions.

Edited April 28, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[seedy]

I'd caution not to, presumably you're referring to an older air cooled van, LP tends to run hotter then gasoline and over heating may become an issue. Especially under any kind of load conditions.

True, but for driving down the superslab it gives an option to decrease cost per km.

I always use gasoline in the mountains, but around town LPG is a real money saver.

But I don't drive a VW - not since I had my 1957 split-window.

One thing I learned tho'- do not lug a VW - keep the revs up. That way you have the fan turning at a greater rpm and more cooling.

Now-a-days I would consider an oil cooler also, with it's own fan.

[WarpSpeed]

Yeah, I think it's well known I'm an advocate of Lp in normal circumstances I'd just be less enthusiastic about it with an air cooled engine even at speed, the top end lubrication is also suspect.

[VocalNeal]

If you surf for < aircooled VW with LPG > you will find lots of VW forums. One guy put the tank in the space under the rear seat.

There is a good place on Srinakarin send me a PM if you need exactly where it is.

Have a look at some Thai VW sites .

Do the math, kms driven vs savings at 13.5 a litre etc, vs whatever benzene costs. Upper cylinder lubrication can be helped with a drip lubricator, all installers have them about 1500 baht.

[all4corners]

Yes warpspeed is an old aircooled engine, thanks guys for your concerns, you all make some serious points as I knew it couldnt be a case of just slapping on a new gas system to an old quirky engine.

Hence why we really need to find a garage that knows all the pitfalls and all the additional present mods to keep the engine cool and prevent unnecessary wear and tear....we think it will pay for itself so worth researching and pursuing...

Will PM ya VocalNeal.....

Cheers guys again as we are very grateful to your knowledge & wisdom!

A4C

[WarpSpeed]

Yeah I wasn't saying DON'T do it I was giving you the info to consider...... I agree to some point with cost versus risk but if replacing engines regularly and the additional cost for oilers and all then it becomes a liability not a benefit and the cost for the initial purchase and install is not even recouped yet. Just sayin like.

[ebean001]

i am no expert but thailand trying to reduce LPG in favor of Natural Gas. The problem - lotsd of NG cars and few filling stations. makes for long lines, etc. Lots of LPG stations doing almost no business.

[Sydebolle]

You'll be in for a nice surprise, the engine will overheat. I have a fleet of VWs and they all run on the THB 48/litre fare.
Maybe you want to sell it (to me) and buy a water cooled transporter +/- 20 years old where installation is no problem and also makes sense.

[spidermike007]

How about for a Toyota Vios? Anybody done this? I hear it can lead to valve problems due to the lack of lubrication? Is this true? Seriously considering it. Should it be a with the multiple injector system? Cost estimates? thanks.

[mok199]

having owned over 20 split and bays...i would suggest putting the money towards an external oil cooler,witha thermostatical controlled fan..also a bigger sump.....god why worry abou fuel....keep it cool...

[vogie]

I'd caution not to, presumably you're referring to an older air cooled van, LP tends to run hotter then gasoline and over heating may become an issue. Especially under any kind of load conditions.

Absolutely correct WarpSpeed, yes it does run hotter and LPG has no lubrication properties, we had a fleet of vans with this conversion and had big problems with the valves exhaust valves burning out. It will be a case of false economy.

[Jonmarleesco]

An interesting point came up the other day, in regard to the safety, or not, of a number of LPG containers which are, surprise surprise, Chinese made and of inferior quality.

[sidewaysallwayz]

Wouldn't an engine swap then LPG conversion be more safe? I have LPG new style ( injectors to each cylinder ) been driving with it in 2006 Toyota altis with no problems except regular maintenance of the LPG apparatus under the hood. But I have seen these things catch fire an B-B-Q an entire car. Good luck

[kiniyow]

If LPG were such a Great idea then why are No new Car factories making new LPG Cars for Sale???

[laowai1960]

If LPG were such a Great idea then why are No new Car factories making new LPG Cars for Sale???

There are in Australia! Ford offers LPG-only models and Holden (GM) offers dual fuel models with factory-fitted LPG systems.

[WarpSpeed]

If LPG were such a Great idea then why are No new Car factories making new LPG Cars for Sale???

There are in Australia! Ford offers LPG-only models and Holden (GM) offers dual fuel models with factory-fitted LPG systems.

VW has had an exclusive LP powered VW Scirrocco 1make race series going now in Europe for the past 3 years that I know of.. While it's not yet offered as a manufactured option part of the reason they have the series is to gather data and make improvements where needed.

[BKKdreaming]

find a Dutch VW forum , they have more LPG cars on the road % wise then most other Euro countries

there the problem was getting the fuel warm enough in winter , not a problem in Thailand

also most cars can use stainless steel valves with less chance of burning one

Let us know what you find out,,,,,

[jay1980]

to save fuel costs why not convert it to run e85 instead?

conversion would be cheaper and less intrusive and air-cooled vw's have been running Ethanol biased fuels for years in Brazil.

cheers

Edited May 2, 2014 by jay1980

[Mousehound]

The VW has a mighty tough engine. Back in 1984 I was working at Caiguna on the Nullarbor. It was regularly hitting 40C. A group of kids travelling rolled off the blacktop into the servo. They had an old VW camper. I chatted to one of the girls about the van. She said it was great but flat out they were only able to get it to 60k and it had taken ages to get the last 1000k. Seems they had it stuck in second gear the whole way. In fact I believe VW have given me less trouble in the really hot stuff here in OZ than water cooled. If a hose or water pump goes then (as has happened to me several times over the years) you have a major problem. VW van gas conversions are common here in OZ. But as posted I wouldn't be keen on a cheap job and that means a lot of miles to get your money back. Also, I prefer an VW to be in its original state. Ones in good original (restored) condition are getting amazing prices - especially the old split screen models.

[all4corners]

Yeah I hear you crystal clear Warpspeed, im more than happy to hear your caution...... or anyones negativity for that matter, cheaper than choosing the ignorant option, and causing a monumental Royal balls up!

Terrific comments guys, seriously good multi feedback, great site this is turning out to be & Im very grateful, hope its helping others who are lacking knowledge & experience in these matters as its not there field......

I fully appreciate keeping it original too is the way to go, its just all speculation at mo....and I probably may just leave it original, just want to ensure what we do is the best option for us as its a minefield here in Thailand....

Remember a neighbor having a 12 yr old T4 at home, running an original Tickfords LPG unit (bizarre Aston Martin) VW subbed it to them before delivery to first owner, no issues in 12 yrs, 100,000 miles, he reg service started immediately in snow too ..... 2.5 petrol engine.... agreed you cant compare apples to oranges as it aint aircoooled....

If you were stuck in a heavy freak traffic jam lasting hours in BKK, LPG unit & engine running on idle is that taxing the engine? I know it wont have air hitting it as parked up stationary, & as MOK199 said (cheers!) run an external oil cooler and thermostatically controlled fan and bigger sump..... so that could eliminate potential overheating issues... i just thought that if you either have a solid engine, even though old has been treated like a lady, or you get it reconditioned from a reputable VW restorer so you have confidence in it, & with all this technology available, surely we can adapt anything old to suit whatever the environment you wish to run it in, whether blistering hot Nullabor SA, or cold baltic conditions, long as cost effective, and all precautions are nullified.....though maybe not?

Cheers in advance to any future input, though I think youve all nailed it!

Will let you know what & if I commit VW cardinal sin.....and if it was the right move....more research.... cheers all!

A4C

[WarpSpeed]

Bottom line, just make sure it is a dual fuel unit so that you can change back and forth between fuels to cool and lubricate it on occasion which is what you should be doing anyways.

[seedy]

Bottom line, just make sure it is a dual fuel unit so that you can change back and forth between fuels to cool and lubricate it on occasion which is what you should be doing anyways.

Good advice. I use Gasoline when pulling hills in mountains, LPG in town or on the flat.

160K so far - no issues.