EC warms up to Abhisit's ideas for election reform

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POLITICS
EC warms up to Abhisit's ideas for election reform
The Nation


Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, with his arm in a sling, shakes hands with Banharn Silapa-archa, chief adviser to Chart Thai Pattana Party, after they met at the Chart Thai Pattana Party office

EC to consider Democrat's proposals and pass them on to PM today

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission (EC) yesterday agreed to take into consideration the proposal of Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva to reform the electoral process before holding an election. However, both sides remain concerned whether an election could be held while the political impasse continues.

The Democrat leader yesterday led key party members to meet the poll body to propose a solution to end the country's prolonged political conflict.

EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said Abhisit had proposed eight points to the EC about how to reform the election mechanism to hold a fair, smooth, and peaceful poll in order to convince voters to cast their ballots.

Abhisit's proposal was in line with that of EC commissioner Somchai Srisutthiyakorn, who is in charge of election management, Puchong said.

"We agree that we have to review election regulations or announcements, which have been proposed by Somchai as well," Puchong said.

The eight proposals have not been revealed to the public though the EC said it would consider them.

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Abhisit has proposed that the EC consider issuing yellow or red cards to candidates within 30 days after the election day, instead of within one year according to the current law. Otherwise it would be difficult to take legal actions against them when they had already taken a political post for a while, he said.

Abhisit said the EC would pass on his proposals to the caretaker government when the EC was scheduled to meet Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra today.

"I want to make a plea to the premier to consider my initiative and not rush into holding an early election without having a solution on how to reform the country," he urged.

"The EC and I agree that the current atmosphere makes it difficult for the EC to hold a complete election. Although the EC thinks they can hold a lawful election, there is also concern if the House of Representatives could be convened for its meeting," Abhisit said. "If we can't find a common ground [between the stakeholders before holding an election] the country will remain in stalemate. An election will create more problems. People would rather accept a poll delay," he said.

Asked if his party members would contest the next election if others agreed with Abhisit's proposal, he said he has to make his party accept it, too. Abhisit said he would conclude his proposals and reveal them to the public by this week. Before the meeting, Supachai said he personally believed Abhisit's move could possibly break the impasse and lead to a smooth election.

Abhisit later met former prime minister and chief adviser to the leader of Chart Thai Pattana Party, Banharn Silapa-archa, and the Chart Pattana Party's chief adviser Suwat Liptapanlop.

After meeting Banharn, Abhisit told a joint press conference that both agreed the political situation is overwhelmed with conflicts and letting the problems fester would cause damage to the country. Banharn said his party was waiting and watching the situation, including the decisions and movements of the EC, which is legally obliged to hold and be responsible for the election.

The party has not proposed any solution but has no problem if the EC decides to hold an election on July 20, he said. His party, in the meantime, would give moral support to Abhisit and hoped that the country would return to peace.

Yingluck, on Monday, urged all parties to give moral support to Abhisit in his efforts to break the political deadlock. She said the public should spare Abhisit scepticism over his sincerity and give the opposition leader the encouragement he needed to help him in his efforts.

However, anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban on Monday night rejected all attempts to hold talks to resolve the political impasse and have an election. He asserted that there would be no talks with ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his sister Yingluck, and they should be overthrown and banished from the country. Suthep said he rejected all these mediation attempts and any proposal for a national government, except a people's government.


-- The Nation 2014-04-30

[MaxLee]

The Election Commission (EC) yesterday agreed to take into consideration the proposal of Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva to reform the electoral process before holding an election.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few days later we'll experience another,... "Just kidding" courtesy of EC white-lie "Pheu Thai (for the Thai)"

[Thaddeus]

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few days, well, anything,

[kimamey]

However, anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban on Monday night rejected all attempts to hold talks to resolve the political impasse and have an election. He asserted that there would be no talks with ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his sister Yingluck, and they should be overthrown and banished from the country. Suthep said he rejected all these mediation attempts and any proposal for a national government, except a people's government.

This is why he now needs to stand back and let someone else who can do the job of negotiating come in and carry on. He did a good job getting people out on the streets to make their views known but that's been done now and things need to move forward.

Abhisit will be able to do the job from his side and I'd like to think Yingluck could do the same for hers. My only concern isn't that she wouldn't try to negotiate but that she doesn't have the experience. She's never really had the chance to prove what she can do. If Thaksin is calling the shots then you have a similar problem as with Suthep. Thaksin has shown himself on many occasions to be extremely self centred.

At the moment a caretaker government is not a bad temporary solution but the advantage of some form of temporary governing council made up from all sides is that it might be able to borrow money to pay the farmers without it being used to promote the PTP as it would be a joint proposal.

[WoopyDoo]

That is 2 out of 3 and so far the plan seems to be well on track.

The military support the new proposals, the EC are making all the same sounds and I really believe they are going to back this... They as much as agreed in principle already...

The Suthep rhetoric is also doing the trick.... This is clearly a conspiracy between Suthep and Abhisit like I have already motioned to on a few occasions on related threads... The plan is working a charm. However, I think Abhisit may have been better off not revealing anything to Yingluck before Suthep can make his maneuver of backing down and agreeing with the proposed process.. That would have made it all but impossible for YL and PTP to disagree.

But today she will have her grubby little mits on it, and within an hour it will be in Dubai, on the UDD desk and possibly all over the social media. It may even be twisted and spun in many ways to discredit it, and YL may even steal some of the proposals for her own.

However, all that would be required is for Suthep to come straight out and accept the proposal and agree not to disrupt the election and to in fact take the protesters off the streets to go home and vote... That would be the ultimate declaration to completely take the wind out of the PTP's sails.

So for me.... It is all going to plan and is now 50% complete.

Don't forget... With regard to Suthep... This is the old 'bait and switch' tactic, and nobody from the other side seems to have sussed it out yet.

If YL comes out today in a 'shocker' announcement that she likes the proposals so far so long as PDRC agree to them also... then it is game, set and match to Suthep and Abhisit.

[klauskunkel]

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, with his arm in a sling, shakes hands with Banharn Silapa-archa, chief adviser to Chart Thai Pattana Party, after they met at the Chart Thai Pattana Party office

don't forget to wash your hand

[Krataiboy]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

[Scamper]

" She said the public should spare Abhisit skepticism over his sincerity "

One wonders how Yingluck could possibly have the gumption to utter a sentence like that.

" However, both sides remain concerned whether an election could be held while the political impasse continues. "

This sentence reveals much more than people realize. The EC has been essentially goaded into barreling into this election by Pheu Thai's continual intimidation and threats. Yes, the EC is responsible for holding elections, but they also are responsible for determining if the conditions on the ground are conducive to conducting a peaceful election poll. They strongly advised against holding one on February 2, and their estimation of that turned out to be startlingly accurate. Deep down, the EC knows - as Abhsiti knows and just about everyone else except Pheu Thai knows - that this election will be as difficult to manage as the last one. Perhaps even more so. Even Barharn acknowledges that, and he's been on plane trips to Thaksin more frequently than most.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Scamper

[h90]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

And it is idiotic....if a party promise something and than the situation changes.

Say the wages will be increased, they get elected and than the worst economic crises happens: They cancel that promise: they are wrong. They still do they wrack the country....

[Thai at Heart]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

[Nickymaster]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

[Thai at Heart]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

[h90]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

When you get elected you are rich as the bribe you till you forget A.

[yellow1red1]

one great transformation would be outlaw political parties and campaign spending.

when it comes to political parties, over 200 years ago, George Washington NAILED it!

"[[political parties must be restrained in a popularly elected government because of their tendency to distract the government from their duties, create unfounded jealousies among groups and regions, raise false alarms amongst the people, promote riots and insurrection, and provide foreign nations and interests access to the government where they can impose their will upon the country. Moreover, Washington makes the case that "the alternate domination" of one party over another and coinciding efforts to exact revenge upon their opponents have led to horrible atrocities, and "is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." From Washington's perspective and judgment, the tendency of political parties toward permanent despotism is because they eventually and "gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual.]]

[Thai at Heart]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

When you get elected you are rich as the bribe you till you forget A.

Exactly. In essence it is the electorate who judges the success or failure or policy. Now , it is then the opposition job to hold them to public account and explain their failure. Something Abhisit is very poor at doing.

What I still find incredible is they can't find one snitch to speak up against all this corruption . don't tell me there isnt one to be found?

[winstonc]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

i would consider those policies me,me ,me policies but im not a politicon.

[winstonc]

However, anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban on Monday night rejected all attempts to hold talks to resolve the political impasse and have an election. He asserted that there would be no talks with ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his sister Yingluck, and they should be overthrown and banished from the country. Suthep said he rejected all these mediation attempts and any proposal for a national government, except a people's government.

This is why he now needs to stand back and let someone else who can do the job of negotiating come in and carry on. He did a good job getting people out on the streets to make their views known but that's been done now and things need to move forward.

Abhisit will be able to do the job from his side and I'd like to think Yingluck could do the same for hers. My only concern isn't that she wouldn't try to negotiate but that she doesn't have the experience. She's never really had the chance to prove what she can do. If Thaksin is calling the shots then you have a similar problem as with Suthep. Thaksin has shown himself on many occasions to be extremely self centred.

At the moment a caretaker government is not a bad temporary solution but the advantage of some form of temporary governing council made up from all sides is that it might be able to borrow money to pay the farmers without it being used to promote the PTP as it would be a joint proposal.

good post ..wrong part was when you said ..she never really had the chance to prove what she can do....2.5 years is plenty in my book..fail 100%....she cant even answer a question ..useless woman..unfortunatly..

[toybits]

What is all the secrecy about - Mr. Abhisit? Why don't you let the people know what you proposed? Are they too dumb to think? If you are going to propose punishment for political parties that are not able to fulfill their campaign promise - you must remember that you are going to be bound by those rules yourself. Beware of what you ask for. You might just get it.. and in the end, no government can govern....

Edited April 30, 2014 by toybits

[Dogmatix]

But the government will try to get a royal decree issued for a new election as fast as it can before the entire cabinet is binned by the Constitutional Court, so that no interim govt can last very long. That would reduce Abhisit's bargaining power. He is in a bind already because the Dems will be dissolved if they boycott two elections in a row and Suthep is not going to support the Dems contesting an election without prior reform. It is probably up to the EC whether they agree a royal decree can be sought right away. I think they will probably demure, even though they have apparently agreed a an election date with the government.

[smutcakes]

But the government will try to get a royal decree issued for a new election as fast as it can before the entire cabinet is binned by the Constitutional Court, so that no interim govt can last very long. That would reduce Abhisit's bargaining power. He is in a bind already because the Dems will be dissolved if they boycott two elections in a row and Suthep is not going to support the Dems contesting an election without prior reform. It is probably up to the EC whether they agree a royal decree can be sought right away. I think they will probably demure, even though they have apparently agreed a an election date with the government.

You are joking right????? If there is even an inkling that the Democrats would win an election, Suthep would very much be involved.

[Nickymaster]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

i should have added: resulting in huge unnecessary financial losses.

The electorate are not the judge.

[penwithcris]

In most Western democracies governments are penalised through the ballot box if they fail to carry through their election promises.

In the UK the Liberal Democrats have gone into meltdown because they reneged on their election promises, and the majority Conservative party are likely to be humiliated by UKIP in the upcoming European elections because of their failure to stem the flow of immigrants

It is the electorate that are showing politicians the yellow and red cards

Abhisit has an aura of a well educated, thoughtful politician, but what he appears to be proposing is wholly unworkable. Manifesto promises and the time scales for implementation cannot be an exact science because there are so many imponderables

There is absolutely nothing amiss with the current voting system in Thailand, the only problem is that individuals like Suthep and Abhisit are totally unable to abide by the decision of the electoral majority to return Pheu Thai to government

[kimamey]

In most Western democracies governments are penalised through the ballot box if they fail to carry through their election promises.

In the UK the Liberal Democrats have gone into meltdown because they reneged on their election promises, and the majority Conservative party are likely to be humiliated by UKIP in the upcoming European elections because of their failure to stem the flow of immigrants

It is the electorate that are showing politicians the yellow and red cards

Abhisit has an aura of a well educated, thoughtful politician, but what he appears to be proposing is wholly unworkable. Manifesto promises and the time scales for implementation cannot be an exact science because there are so many imponderables

There is absolutely nothing amiss with the current voting system in Thailand, the only problem is that individuals like Suthep and Abhisit are totally unable to abide by the decision of the electoral majority to return Pheu Thai to government

I must admit I'm not sure about how Abhisit's plan would work but then we haven't seen the details yet so we'll have to wait and see.

I think there's a lot wrong with the democratic system here. It's not just elections as there is far more to democracy than that. Once a party is elected they are overseen by the judiciary. There are always complaints about bias in the courts which I don't think is as bad as is made out but the perception of bias needs to be dealt with for democracy to work. Then there's the apparent participation by a convicted criminal to consider and the government appearing to cover up killings by the army in 2010. When you look beyond the vote it doesn't seem so good.

As for Suthep and Abhisit are totally unable to abide by the decision of the electoral majority to return Pheu Thai to government. Were you asleep between August 2011 and November last year?

[Thaddeus]

In most Western democracies governments are penalised through the ballot box if they fail to carry through their election promises.

Nope, nobody believes those promises anyway, western governments change because of a small shift in popularity in a closely contested constituency.

Thailand not same, Thailand promise is true, you not Thai, you not understand.

Even when you tell them that the promise to make them all rich in six months was made three years ago and they are still poor, poorer than they were before, you still not understand.

[Thai at Heart]

According to Puchong, Abhisit has proposed that the EC issue regulations to penalise politicians or parties who fail to deliver policies promised in their election campaign. For example, their electoral rights could be revoked if they failed to deliver, he said.

Great idea. Apply this globally and there wouldn't be a government left on the planet.

Ptp haven't failed in their policies.

The rice, cars and other stuff went exactly as many predicted. You can't punish people for poor implementation. My lord no one would ever survive a month. Just look at healthcare in the USA or pensions in the UK.

So, the strategy would be promise northing and deliver even less. Exactly out of the democrats traditional manifesto plans. I.e. change nothing.

You can't punish people for poor implementation.

You can't? I think you can. It's called being negligent when you continue with a scheme (without making changes) even though it's obvious it's very badly implemented.

The electorate does that.

Any other way would be completely arbitrary. It cannot be up to a committee to judge the merits of a policy.

OK

A. I think they should tax land in Thailand

B. I think they should have more tax breaks for families.

C. I think they should allow foreigners to own companies.

If I get elected, would they allow me to deliver, or would they consider my policies populist?

i should have added: resulting in huge unnecessary financial losses.

The electorate are not the judge.

Hahaha. Classic.

Define huge and unnecessary. Coming from a part of the world where we have had fiscal easing for 6 years, this should be a good discussion. One mans unnecessary waste is another mans social necessity.

You might as well debate Keynesian economics. Living in a country where the price goes up when demand is dropping this will be a classic of Thai uneconomics.

[3NUMBAS]

yesterdays offerings warmed up again ,same old slops that nobody can stomach

[Thaddeus]

dupe

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thaddeus

[Thaddeus]

yesterdays offerings warmed up again ,same old slops that nobody can stomach

Really?

In what way are they the same old slops?

And define nobody.

[MaxLee]

"Election-Collection on 20th July, thank you, Mark.... we were just kidding!!!!"