How absolutely necessary is a degree in securing a job?

[jkinbkk]

I do not have a University degree, but my career path and opportunities have given me a wealth of experience and knowledge from working mainly with European, Fortune 500 companies. (I am British, 53 years old)

To date, like most people I have taken career opportunities along the way presented to me via by my network of friends and business associates.

The past 18 years I have lived and worked in Asia.

I have taken a break from work for the past 4 months and now plan to return to employment in July.

I wish again to work for a Thai based company, which I have done twice before.

I am keen to look for opportunities outside the industries I have previously worked, therefore my network is of little use.

For the first time I am using online resources to job hunt, and what is immediately evident is that all jobs state that a degree of some sort is the minimum requirement!

My observation and concern is that when applying online for jobs i will not get past the first hurdle which is normally education, and therefore my application is rejected outright without further consideration of my experience!

Would I be right in deducing that without a degree it is unlikely I will succeed with online job applications?

Anyone had similar experience?

[ubonjoe]

Since this is not directly related to visas or work permits I am moving this topic to the Business forum..

[Shoeboat]

If you have enough experience just lie on your resume.

Choose a city, a university and a course - put it on your CV and forget about it.

For somebody in their 20's, they are likely to check - but for somebody mid 30's plus it is experience that matters.

You seem like a decent bloke so it might not sit well with you to be dishonest but hey, if that's what it takes to get on in life and you are confident enough in your abilities then go for it, you have nothing to lose.

[kurnell]

I will be very interested to see the responses, as I expect the usual cliches..."your only chance of a job here is in teaching and you need a degree..."

[Shoeboat]

Exactly kurnell, I think if I hadn't been so frank and honest we'd be on page 3 by now.

Be a good person.

Be the best you can at what you do.

Appreciate life.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Shoeboat

[jkinbkk]

If you have enough experience just lie on your resume.

Choose a city, a university and a course - put it on your CV and forget about it.

For somebody in their 20's, they are likely to check - but for somebody mid 30's plus it is experience that matters.

You seem like a decent bloke so it might not sit well with you to be dishonest but hey, if that's what it takes to get on in life and you are confident enough in your abilities then go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Yes, fibbing did cross my mind, but as you state, I am a trust worthy chap and that would go against the grain to falsify information.

Anyhow, when it comes to work permit applications, copies of certificates are required.

[SheungWan]

I have gleaned from the above that you are currently unemployed, have taken a break from your previous employment, have worked for a Thai company twice and therefore have broken your employment with them more than once for some unknown reason and now want to do something different. Plus, you are over 50 and living in Thailand and do not have a degree. All this doesn't create confidence in a potential employer as you seem to be 'passing through' and maybe more motivated by financial rather than career considerations. Since a job in Thailand requires specialist knowledge and you are looking for something outside your existing experience a not exactly hopeful scenario. What to do? Well...the dreaded TEFL and register for a distance learning OU degree while you are working. All this will keep you fully stretched for the next three years with little money and even less time. Not quite what you had in mind for Thailand?

Wow, that's the most impressive string of assumptions I have ever seen decorate one paragraph. Well done

Now be a good chap and go back into the corner of the room so the adult can work and don't forget to don the pointy hat with the big D on it.

Well I will be happy to remove my big hat with the big D on it if you are able to provide us with some more CV info, otherwise the hat stays on. PS, in a past life I have perused CVs, short-listed and sat on appointment committees. So be nice.

Edited May 2, 2014 by SheungWan

[fletchsmile]

For Thais it's pretty important, and difficult to get a decent job without one. Not impossible though.

The good news though is that realistically your chances of getting a job are likely to be thru foreign contacts rather than Thai. They should be more open minded. Aside from one role (the current one where I was put forward by Thais and hired by Thais and happens to be a very pleasant place to work) all the other positions here have always had a foreigner in the picture somehow, either as recruitment agent, direct hire or referral etc.

As mentioned, if you did a TEFL course that would probably get you into English teaching. I did years back at TEFL international Ban Phe. Was an enjoyable 4 weeks, made some new friends as well as a few days hands on teaching practice to back up 3 weeks theory.Always in my back pocket in case. Always an option if I wanted to/ needed to.

Using Linked In seems a good option these days. I often get people I've never met before contacting me about roles, and that seems to be one place people look you up.

Good luck with the job hunting.

Cheers

Fletch

[Boo]

removed a post & reply. please keep civil

[Baerboxer]

If you have enough experience just lie on your resume.

Choose a city, a university and a course - put it on your CV and forget about it.

For somebody in their 20's, they are likely to check - but for somebody mid 30's plus it is experience that matters.

You seem like a decent bloke so it might not sit well with you to be dishonest but hey, if that's what it takes to get on in life and you are confident enough in your abilities then go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Never a good idea to commit fraud - which is what you are advising. Many organizations do ask for a copy of your degree now and some even require an attested copy and/or copy of your transcript.

Even if they don't lying is not a good start.

[fstarbkk]

It seems to me that the lack of a degree is not your biggest obstacle in securing a job. Generally jobs for foreigners and work permits are based on specialist experience. Since you wish to work outside the industries you have previously worked in, it will be pretty difficult to demonstrate such expertise, unless I'm missing something here.

[JeremyBowskill]

Get down Kao san road, buy a degree. Case closed.

[Almartin]

My nephew is teaching up in Chiang Mai and doesn't have a degree. So I'm assuming that you don't need a degree to get a work permit.

He got his job through an agency, they trained him for his TEFL too (SEE TEFL). They sorted all his visa's and work permits for him.

I do know however that in order to get a work permit you do need a police clearance check.

It's funny but when ever I recruited in England I took no heed of whether or not they had a degree. Having gotten mine as a mature student I quickly realised that degrees don't actually mean anything. It's not until you get some experience under your belt that brings any value to the work place.

[rotary]

Depends on the line of business, some lines the degree helps, in many lines it is of no benefit as hands on long term experience is most important. Good luck

[Dave Phuket Sisaket]

Even with an MBA from a top European business school it is difficult to find a job via firing off the CV through online submissions. Generally a good word from someone in your network and them forwarding your CV is how the bulk of job interviews are landed, or via headhunters. If you have deep experience with transferable skills it might be worth reaching out to a bunch of headhunters. Otherwise, reconsider your network. They may have connections in other industries than the one they are working in. The main thing is trust, so if the key hiring person trusts them, and they trust you from previous dealings, your lack of a degree should not stand in the way.

Good luck!

[ggt]

Was this post a resume?

[Suradit69]

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I will be very interested to see the responses, as I expect the usual cliches..."your only chance of a job here is in teaching and you need a degree..."

Exactly kurnell, I think if I hadn't been so frank and honest we'd be on page 3 by now.

Be a good person.

Be the best you can at what you do.

Appreciate life.

"your only chance of a job here is in teaching and you need a degree..."

"Be a good person."

"Be the best you can at what you do".

"Appreciate life."

Ah the Farang Fantasy Factory is running full steam today. Snappy replies and retorts to imaginary comments from imaginary friends having imaginary debates at imaginary tea parties. It seems more and more TV posters carry on conversations with their make-believe friends.

[mrowe1973]

Look for a job selling limes I hear it's very lucrative this time of year!

[makkam]

For Thais it's pretty important, and difficult to get a decent job without one. Not impossible though.

The good news though is that realistically your chances of getting a job are likely to be thru foreign contacts rather than Thai. They should be more open minded. Aside from one role (the current one where I was put forward by Thais and hired by Thais and happens to be a very pleasant place to work) all the other positions here have always had a foreigner in the picture somehow, either as recruitment agent, direct hire or referral etc.

As mentioned, if you did a TEFL course that would probably get you into English teaching. I did years back at TEFL international Ban Phe. Was an enjoyable 4 weeks, made some new friends as well as a few days hands on teaching practice to back up 3 weeks theory.Always in my back pocket in case. Always an option if I wanted to/ needed to.

Using Linked In seems a good option these days. I often get people I've never met before contacting me about roles, and that seems to be one place people look you up.

Good luck with the job hunting.

Cheers

Fletch

Getting a teaching job in Bangkok without a bona fide undergraduate degree is fraught with danger.

I have a friend who has taught in Rankampheng (sp) for 6 continuous years and was loved and revered by kids and parents.

He did not have a degree but was by all accounts a good teacher, probably due to his extrovert and fun nature.

Unfortunately one of the other thai teachers found out he had no degree from an English speaking country ( equivalent to having 'bought one' from a thai university like most middle class thais do ) and they dobbed him in to the ministry of education. He had a very uncomfortable 3 or 4 months and had to pay over 100k thb to extricate himself.

If you have no degree best teach in the 'sticks' or go to cambodia

[poweratradio]

If you have enough experience just lie on your resume.

Choose a city, a university and a course - put it on your CV and forget about it.

For somebody in their 20's, they are likely to check - but for somebody mid 30's plus it is experience that matters.

You seem like a decent bloke so it might not sit well with you to be dishonest but hey, if that's what it takes to get on in life and you are confident enough in your abilities then go for it, you have nothing to lose.

My wife has a Thai B.A. which would never be recognized anywhere in the world but here. Bachelors in Tourism Management. 4 years to get too. Its a 2 year tech course in Canada.

[sirchai]

Get down Kao san road, buy a degree. Case closed.

How can you give such "advice"???? Authorities in Thailand are aware of this and they do seized quite a few computers with all the "degrees' on it.

Deportation. Case closed?-

[NoshowJones]

If you have enough experience just lie on your resume.

Choose a city, a university and a course - put it on your CV and forget about it.

For somebody in their 20's, they are likely to check - but for somebody mid 30's plus it is experience that matters.

You seem like a decent bloke so it might not sit well with you to be dishonest but hey, if that's what it takes to get on in life and you are confident enough in your abilities then go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Yes, fibbing did cross my mind, but as you state, I am a trust worthy chap and that would go against the grain to falsify information.

Anyhow, when it comes to work permit applications, copies of certificates are required.

[JeremyBowskill]

Get down Kao san road, buy a degree. Case closed.

How can you give such "advice"???? Authorities in Thailand are aware of this and they do seized quite a few computers with all the "degrees' on it.

Deportation. Case closed?-

Yes Authorities in Thailand are so worried about it they close down Kao san road every night to stop it happening. Or was it collect tea money every night........ I can't quite remember which.

Would be interested in any links you can provide for someone being deported for having a fake degree....... Thought not!

Edited May 3, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[davidst01]

In bangok there are farang organisations ie Lions club or whatever..... where old farang get together once a month. If you attend these meetings you might find contacts and thus land yourself a job eventually

[Grindting]

Why would an employer consider taking someone on with no experience in the field they will be operating in, regardless of a degree or no degree? Especially at 53.

I've worked all over south east asia 'in my specialist field' without a degree, and it was not an issue. But that is because I was employed by a company in the uk in the first instance and then sent there. So basically whatever the visa situation was the company just made it happen, through their various agents etc.

But if I was to apply directly to a company in say Bangkok or Hong Kong or Singapore, I doubt they would take me on due to not having a degree unless I knew them already (contact on the inside), as a degree is actually expected in my line of work.

Back in the UK I'll always have work without the degree and if I do work in Asia again I can just use agents and get it done, but not having a degree is a real hindrance none the less, especially in Asia where bits of paper and letters behind your name are considered very important. And as for the Middle East... Now days you can't even get in without a degree. Qatar for example expats need degrees to qualify for the visa no matter what the job is and it's becoming almost impossible for employers to get around this. In Dubai they have to pay more income tax on expats without degrees.

Id love to go back to Uni one day and finish my degree or jump straight to the masters, especially before any bambino's start coming out of the mrs! and I will be advising my kids to get to Uni, work hard and get a piece of paper.. As no one can take that away from you. Or if that doesn't float their boat then get a trade a get all their bits of paper in that too. As they are becoming ever more important

Edited May 3, 2014 by Grindting

[Gracas]

What is the purpose of this job hunt ? Are you looking for employment as a primary means of support or is it intended to stimulate to mind (The reason behind looking for a new field of employment).

I have been thinking along similar lines myself, to look for employment in a totally different field. I am not interested in retiring, but I would like to work in a different industry or maybe take up a course in a new field.

[jkinbkk]

What is the purpose of this job hunt ? Are you looking for employment as a primary means of support or is it intended to stimulate to mind (The reason behind looking for a new field of employment).

I have been thinking along similar lines myself, to look for employment in a totally different field. I am not interested in retiring, but I would like to work in a different industry or maybe take up a course in a new field.

Until 2002 my field of expertise was Automotive Coating, worked for many years with BMW and Akzo Nobel.

Then in 2002 had a chance to change disciplines and got involved in Underground Construction & Mining solutions.

Had initial doubts if I could make a successful transition as I am not a civil engineers? But I developed successfully in that field for the past 12 years. Managing SEA for a renowned German Mining Solutions Company and Regional Manager South Asia for BASF India Ltd.

So the managerial experience gained along side the technical and practical aspects of Automotive Coatings and Construction Chemicals have been Business Development & Project Management. These skills I believe can cross multiple industry.

Clearly I could/can go back to what I know, but I actually fancy working for an NGO. Big salary is not a key driver for me, but I do need a challenge and a job whereby I get out of the office 50% of the time.

[SheungWan]

Id love to go back to Uni one day and finish my degree or jump straight to the masters, especially before any bambino's start coming out of the mrs! and I will be advising my kids to get to Uni, work hard and get a piece of paper.. As no one can take that away from you. Or if that doesn't float their boat then get a trade a get all their bits of paper in that too. As they are becoming ever more important

Since you started a degree one might assume that you have the necessary A levels and GCSEs in the bag. Also, given that you have extended work experience, the odds are that you can go straight to a Masters with just a pre-course for those without a prior undergraduate degree. Many Unis provide this. Some unis do not require F/T attendance but you need to take care which Uni to sign up with.

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Get down Kao san road, buy a degree. Case closed.

Well it ain't no use getting a Geologist degree and you don't know the difference betweena bar of soap and a chunk of basalt , you wont go far.

[chainarong]

Don't take a fake degree, the interview will form some questions / info for that particular degree and if you don't know, goodbye If you are not sponsored by an employer and are employed to do specialist work , that needs your talents in Thailand, you will not get far , thats generally way in any country , you just don't walk in, every now again you get lucky , you can do English teaching , that seems to work well for awhile, till you see the situation for what it realy is.Crap.