Is Alcohlics Anonymous run by christians?

[cnx37]

I watched the video - see # 60 - MrY.

It is OK by me except doing it alone/solo.

The support mechanism/not doing it alone is, to me, a BIg +!

Could I have done it alone? It does not really matter. I do know that I felt very alone during the first 12 months in AA. I finally telephoned another member. Within 5 minutes, another member telephoned. That matters!

The video advises details of the "competition" to AA. However, if you live in LOS, it is on the internet or not at all (to the best of my knowledge).

When I arrived at AA, most of the "gurus" were not bible bashers - they were "go to meetings" bashers. You cannot go to too many meetings" bashers. On many occasions I went to meetings, I had little else to do anyway. At least, for the duration of the meeting, it is highly likely that you will not be drinking.

After a meeting, I tended to sleep better.

[Neeranam]

And if you've got 30 minutes to spend, here is funny but factual take on the subject:

Penn & Teller: Bullshit - Alcoholics Anonymous

Not funny IMO. Factual, my arse!

[cnx37]

I would like to access the info on "success" rates of expats living in LOS - TV members - those who got sober in their home countries.

My "wild, uneducated guess" - 33%! Any other guestimates on offer? A fruitless exercise on my part but I am interested anyway! (I do not know how to do a survey on TV).

[Neeranam]

I would like to access the info on "success" rates of expats living in LOS - TV members - those who got sober in their home countries.

My "wild, uneducated guess" - 33%! Any other guestimates on offer? A fruitless exercise on my part but I am interested anyway! (I do not know how to do a survey on TV).

What is success in a daily recovery?

I have 5000 days and got sober here in Thailand through the grace of a higher power and many members of AA.

[cnx37]

Neeranam

Congrats on >5000 days! - "one day at a time".

Where I reside in LOS, there are a number with >30 years (self included) - "one day at a time". Not that important to me - living by example does matter (to me), helping others (inside & outside the Fellowship), beng considerate to others (wife included), being honest in all my affairs, living the 12 Steps - "quality" matters.

Curiousity killed the cat re my post! I little musing? Why not? Life is short! Life is not that serious? Is it?

Cheers - my "boss" is calling!

[impulse]

AA success statistics are pretty easy to find, but rather misleading. (At least this is the way they did it back when I was more plugged in and active)

They know how many desire chips were minted and sent out (to be offered for free to every new member at his/her first meeting)

They know how many 30 day chips they sent out, they know how many 1 year (and 50 year) chips they sent out (to be given for free to members celebrating milestones)

Simple division tells you what percentage of newcomers picked up a 30 day chip and what percentage picked up a 50 year chip, 50 years later.

Previous posts have discussed how the numbers are skewed by the folks going to AA for purposes other than staying sober, and with a little imagination anyone can come up with many other reasons the statistics can be misleading.

[Sheryl]

(Heavy sigh!) You didn't understand what I wrote. I drink alcohol, but am not an alcoholic. I get drunk, but I'm not an alcoholic....Get the drift?

And, you aren't reading others' post if you think that is not recruiting. Shame on you!

As I stated, AA is not for everyone, and one of the problems with AA, like any other organization, is the pressure the people have put upon them. (At least they feel that way.) Can make them start again. They are able to talk to me about why AA isn't working for them. You got a problem with that?

AA is a Christian organization. Don't like it? Don't blame me.

And you last sentence, while incorrect, shows your own weakness. I certainly hope you don't sponsor anyone with that attitude. Maybe you need my counseling. It's free, btw.

AA is not only about quitting alcohol, it is about making yourself better.

AA is not remotely a Christian organization. Were on earth are you getting that idea from?

And as you are not an alcoholic. why would you go to AA?

[rice555]

Hello All, if there was anything related to religion involved with AA or NA,

I wouldn't have 24 years sober. I've been in churches with 12 step groups,

some churches let us use a room to have a meetings, but that's a far as it

goes.

rice555

Do 30 meetings in 30 days, if AA is not for you, we'll gladly refund your misery.

Keep coming back, it works if you work it!

[MrY]

And if you've got 30 minutes to spend, here is funny but factual take on the subject:

Penn & Teller: Bullshit - Alcoholics Anonymous

Not funny IMO. Factual, my arse!

I would like to access the info on "success" rates of expats living in LOS - TV members - those who got sober in their home countries.

My "wild, uneducated guess" - 33%! Any other guestimates on offer? A fruitless exercise on my part but I am interested anyway! (I do not know how to do a survey on TV).

What is success in a daily recovery?

I have 5000 days and got sober here in Thailand through the grace of a higher power and many members of AA.

...and in your profile it says "Anonymous Member". How unexpected!

Looks like I kicked where it hurts...

Misspelling corrected.

[Sheryl]

AA is an anonymous program and to my knowledge they neither have any hard statistics nor is there anyway they could obtain them since it would require being able to follow up and verify the drinking status of people coming to AA - who in fact are never asked to give more than a first name or alias.

Any rehab program faces a lot of methodological problems in measuring success rates. Generally speaking, in all studies I have seen, >75% relapse is the norm for substance abuse programs. Onthe other hand, most people who do eventually go straight do so after more than one attempt at rehab, often ater many and the temporal link is not always clear cut. Someone may enter a rehab program, come out, relapse, do several more over the years and yet when they finally straighten out it may be that all of the those programs, over the years, contributed to their doing so. No way to measure that.

For AA, which works a little differently than other rehab programs in that it is a life-long program there are two further confounders: (1) no way to objectively verify/measure if someone is actually working the steps and (2) people who remain active in AA for long epriods of time or for life -- who are the ones that can most easily be observed for outcome - will be definition tend to be those who did sober up.

There is no question that there are many alcoholics who have achieved sobriety with AA's help. What percentage they are of all the people who ever attended AA, or of all the people who made a serious effort to follow the AA program (a much smaller subset of the latter) is unknown.

It is also clear to me at least that there are people who achieve sobriety through paths other than AA (though many rehab programs borrow heavily from AA's steps).

AA is a method that works for many people, that does not mean it is the only method possible. It does have the added advantage of being free of cost.

However the effectiveness of AA is not the subject of this thread. Rather it is the issue of whether AA is an inextricably "Christian" path (I think we all understand it is not "run" by any sort of organization per se). Or -- given the complete absence of any reference to Christ anywhere in it - -whether it is a path/method that requires or "promotes" a belief in God as conventionally understood by the Semitic religion (Judaism, Christinianity, Islam etc). Although the OP used the term "Christian" I think he really meant "Judeo-Christian" i.e. religions based on the Bible and around the concept of a Supreme Being/Creator.

This is an important issue and one that does deter some people from even trying AA. In addition, even among those who get past that and understand that a Higher Power does not have to be "God", the "Higher Power" bit is very difficult to wrap one's head around. For people who do believe in a "God" it is easier, but for people who do not, there isn't a ready-made social construct to use and it can initially be confusing.

I went to Al Anon, not AA, but the 12 steps are the same. I was not a Christian and did not believe in God when I went in, and do not to this day, yet benefited greatly from working the program. At no time, ever, did anyone try to foist even belief in God upon me much less Christianity. My observation was that the other members were not disproportionally Christian. Plenty of Jews, new-agers, agnostics, atheists, Buddhists and so on.

The concern that AA is "Chiristian" (or even Judeo-Christian) is totally unfounded.

But it is true that opening up to a power greater than oneself is part of the program....not because of a hidden "agenda" to promote that as an ideological belief but because that is how this program works.

Every recipe you can find on baking a cake includes baking powder or some other leavening agent. Dies this mean that the people who made the recipes did so as part of an "agenda" to promote baking powder for its own sake? Or a specific brand of baking powder that they want to "convert" everyone into using?

Of course not. They included it only because without it, the recipe just does not work. It is an essential ingrediant. But any brand will do just fine, as will any other ingrediant with the same effect. But leaving out the leavening altogether is impossible if you want the end result.

This idea will not make sense to outsiders hearing it who have no experience with a "higher power" being anything other than the God they have heard defined by secular religions. But if they come to AA they'll meet plenty of other people with the same confusion/dilemma, hear about different ways different individuals have dealt with it, and it will start to make some sense-- and not because you will have been "converted" to any religion.

Or don't come, try something else if you like. But don't let your choice be based on a very incorrect assumption about AA.

[Neeranam]

I would like to access the info on "success" rates of expats living in LOS - TV members - those who got sober in their home countries.

My "wild, uneducated guess" - 33%! Any other guestimates on offer? A fruitless exercise on my part but I am interested anyway! (I do not know how to do a survey on TV).

What is success in a daily recovery?

I have 5000 days and got sober here in Thailand through the grace of a higher power and many members of AA.

...and in your profile it says "Anonymous Member". How unexpected!

Looks like I kicked where it hurts...

Misspelling corrected.

I assure you, nothing you say could hurt me. Sorry as that probably is your motive.

You sound a lot like some old friends of mine who are alcoholic and constantly trying to find fault at what I'm doing(not drinking). They have been to AA but refuse to admit they are beaten by alcohol.

Sadly, at least 2 of them will probably die soon due to their alcoholism, but at least they weren't "weak-willed" and forced to rely on God or AA.

[impulse]

I assure you, nothing you say could hurt me. Sorry as that probably is your motive.

One of the first things I took away from AA: What other people think about me....is none of my business.

My business is keeping my side of the street clean. As long as I'm doing that, who cares what they think?

In fairness to the OP's question, every once in awhile, I'll run into a singular meeting that has a Christian flavor to it. Those meetings are rare, and they don't bother me at all. If they did, I'd just find another meeting to go to.

[big carl]

I would like to access the info on "success" rates of expats living in LOS - TV members - those who got sober in their home countries.

My "wild, uneducated guess" - 33%! Any other guestimates on offer? A fruitless exercise on my part but I am interested anyway! (I do not know how to do a survey on TV).

What is success in a daily recovery?

I have 5000 days and got sober here in Thailand through the grace of a higher power and many members of AA.

...and in your profile it says "Anonymous Member". How unexpected!

Looks like I kicked where it hurts...

Misspelling corrected.

I assure you, nothing you say could hurt me. Sorry as that probably is your motive.

You sound a lot like some old friends of mine who are alcoholic and constantly trying to find fault at what I'm doing(not drinking). They have been to AA but refuse to admit they are beaten by alcohol.

Sadly, at least 2 of them will probably die soon due to their alcoholism, but at least they weren't "weak-willed" and forced to rely on God or AA.

I am sure that will reassure the people who cared about them.

It says in the big book selfishness and self centerness we thought to be the root of all are problems.

Not sure if that is so but it sure describes your friends to a T.

[DLP]

After reading all these posts i am starting to get withdrawel symtoms

[tominbkk]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

[DLP]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

I think the AA should get in touch with the RAC. ( religious alcohlics club )

[tominbkk]

A lot of hogwash posts here.

AA is a Christian organization, plain and simple. Established by Christians. Run by Christians. And headquartered in and Christian religious center.

Just because they attempt to lure/accommodate people of no faith or of other religions makes them no less Christian.

IMHO, they have largely been behind the gross distortion in American views towards alcohol and addiction, leading people to think they have no control over themselves. Even if you have never been to an AA meeting, you know the mantras as they permeate the American culture.

You are powerless against alcohol and addiction.

You are worthless.

Only G.O.D. (Group Of Drunks) can help you.

Notice on the success rate of AA: It seems to make no difference whether you walk in to an AA meeting voluntarily or are ordered to do so, the success rate historically remains at or below self help. The difference is that the ones that fail after being brainwashed be AA are now even less likely to ever recover having had the remainder of their spine and balls removed by the demoralizing hammering about your worthlessness. AA publishes no figures.

God help us all.

Haha, tell us what you really feel!

I agree though, the whole "you are powerless and have no control" philosophy turns me off personally, others may relate to it.

I always felt that I had the power to do (or not do) anything I want. To stop drinking it took educating myself, rationally doing cost benefit analysis, and seeking to be honest with myself, which drinking was not allowing to happen.

I love a sharing community, but use the Reddit forum "http://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/" to share. It is a positive community that is really there just to support one another. I get my fix by going most days and reading, replying, posting, supporting for 2-30 minutes.And no Lord's Prayer at the end of a session there!

7 months sober now, feeling great! Life is so much better without hangovers.

[GrahamF]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

AA doesn't make you do anything, especially recite the lords prayer. Some meetings do end with the lords prayer, the majority of the meetings I have attended have not ended with it.

Have you ever been to AA?

[big carl]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

AA doesn't make you do anything, especially recite the lords prayer. Some meetings do end with the lords prayer, the majority of the meetings I have attended have not ended with it.

Have you ever been to AA?

The lords prayer is not as popular as it was once.

It does not mention God and it say's are father not me and I.

How ever AA does have a prayer that say's God and us and we in it.

It is not popular either. It is called the AA prayer.

[Neeranam]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

AA doesn't make you do anything, especially recite the lords prayer. Some meetings do end with the lords prayer, the majority of the meetings I have attended have not ended with it.

Have you ever been to AA?

The lords prayer is not as popular as it was once.

It does not mention God and it say's are father not me and I.

How ever AA does have a prayer that say's God and us and we in it.

It is not popular either. It is called the AA prayer.

The Lord's prayer doesn't actually say 'God' but it addressed to Him.

Do you mean the serenity prayer?

Many AA meetings use a shortened version of it.

The full version is :-

God, grant me the Serenity

To accept the things I cannot change...

Courage to change the things I can,

And Wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time,

Enjoying one moment at a time,

Accepting hardship as the pathway to peace.

Taking, as He did, this sinful world as it is,

Not as I would have it.

Trusting that He will make all things right

if I surrender to His will.

That I may be reasonably happy in this life,

And supremely happy with Him forever in the next.

Amen.

The prayer we us at the beginning and the end is a translation of the serenity prayer -

ขอสิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ ให้ความสงบแก่ข้า(kor sing sak sid hai kwam sangob gae ka)

ให้ยอมรับสิ่งที่เปลี่ยนไม่ได้(hai yom rab sing tee bplian mai dai)

ให้กล้าเปลี่ยนสิ่งที่เปลี่ยนได้(hai glaa bplian sing tee bplian dai)

และปัญญาที่จะแยกแยะ(lae panhaa tee ja yaek yaeh)

There is no mention of the word God.

I've never been to an AA meeting where the Lord's Prayer was said.

[Neeranam]

oops double

[big carl]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

AA doesn't make you do anything, especially recite the lords prayer. Some meetings do end with the lords prayer, the majority of the meetings I have attended have not ended with it.

Have you ever been to AA?

The lords prayer is not as popular as it was once.

It does not mention God and it say's are father not me and I.

How ever AA does have a prayer that say's God and us and we in it.

It is not popular either. It is called the AA prayer.

The Lord's prayer doesn't actually say 'God' but it addressed to Him.

Do you mean the serenity prayer?

Many AA meetings use a shortened version of it.

The full version is :-

God, grant me the Serenity

To accept the things I cannot change...

Courage to change the things I can,

And Wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time,

Enjoying one moment at a time,

Accepting hardship as the pathway to peace.

Taking, as He did, this sinful world as it is,

Not as I would have it.

Trusting that He will make all things right

if I surrender to His will.

That I may be reasonably happy in this life,

And supremely happy with Him forever in the next.

Amen.

The prayer we us at the beginning and the end is a translation of the serenity prayer -

ขอสิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ ให้ความสงบแก่ข้า(kor sing sak sid hai kwam sangob gae ka)

ให้ยอมรับสิ่งที่เปลี่ยนไม่ได้(hai yom rab sing tee bplian mai dai)

ให้กล้าเปลี่ยนสิ่งที่เปลี่ยนได้(hai glaa bplian sing tee bplian dai)

และปัญญาที่จะแยกแยะ(lae panhaa tee ja yaek yaeh)

There is no mention of the word God.

I've never been to an AA meeting where the Lord's Prayer was said.

I have been around area wise a lot and time wise a lot.

Yet to hear the Serenity prayer said with out the word God in it.

As I said the Lords Prayer has lost favor to the selfish me me one.

At any rate this is AA and we do have an AA prayer that says us and we.

It is in your 12 X12 Won't tell you where but will suggest you read the last paragraph in step 3

It tells you where to use the popular version of the Serenity prayer.

I like your version of the serenity prayer I had heard it was even longer than that.

There are several versions of it's origins.

In fact I had heard two versions of why it is in AA.

Funny how time changes things. If I live another 50 years I wonder what they will be saying?

[impulse]

Christians? I got no problems with Christians.

Why, some of my best friends are Christians. Even had a few in my high school.

I went to a meeting in Houston once and quickly found out I was in a gay meeting. But I'm pretty sure AA isn't run by gays. (BTW, I stayed, and it was a great meeting- and I occasionally went back).

I like some meetings. There are other meetings I don't care for. Meetings get big, and meetings get small.

New meetings pop up all the time because somebody doesn't like the flavor, or time, or location of the available meetings. 2 drunks (and a pot of coffee) is all it takes to make a meeting. You don't need permission. You don't need to register the meeting anywhere, or pay money to anyone. There's no secret handshake. You don't really even need the pot of coffee.

If I don't like one meeting, I don't condemn the entire (time tested) program. I find another.

[gerryBScot]

It's my eleventh birthday today which I shall celebrate quietly at home with my family. I was up at 0430 to go birdwatching this morning. No one had to tell me what I did last night. I didn't drive home legless. My wife and kids are relatively happy people and if they are getting support to be able to live with me then I don't know about it. I didn't wet the bed last night and the house wasn't stinking of piss and shit this morning. It wasn't like this 12 years ago. I quit drinking and have been able to stay stopped because of AA.

If they said to me today:" look Gerry there's been mistake, you're not an alcoholic, you can drink" I'd like to think I'd stay stopped cos my life is so much better.

In a forum it's easy to be rational and logical about something like alcoholism and about the choices a drunk has. Pull yourself together man/woman take control of your life. ...... just what you want to hear when you're in year six of a vodka drip and have a preference for the solitude of your own room where you can develop your negatives and piss and shit in a bucket because it's too much of an effort to go. .....

At this stage you don't care if AA is run by Al Qaeda.

AA brings people back from this and much worse. We are by no means perfect. But we are a good option if you want to try quitting drinking.

Thanks for love.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Tapatalk

[Jessi]

It's my eleventh birthday today which I shall celebrate quietly at home with my family. I was up at 0430 to go birdwatching this morning. No one had to tell me what I did last night. I didn't drive home legless. My wife and kids are relatively happy people and if they are getting support to be able to live with me then I don't know about it. I didn't wet the bed last night and the house wasn't stinking of piss and shit this morning. It wasn't like this 12 years ago. I quit drinking and have been able to stay stopped because of AA.

If they said to me today:" look Gerry there's been mistake, you're not an alcoholic, you can drink" I'd like to think I'd stay stopped cos my life is so much better.

In a forum it's easy to be rational and logical about something like alcoholism and about the choices a drunk has. Pull yourself together man/woman take control of your life. ...... just what you want to hear when you're in year six of a vodka drip and have a preference for the solitude of your own room where you can develop your negatives and piss and shit in a bucket because it's too much of an effort to go. .....

At this stage you don't care if AA is run by Al Qaeda.

AA brings people back from this and much worse. We are by no means perfect. But we are a good option if you want to try quitting drinking.

Thanks for love.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Tapatalk

Great work Gerry, I also spent my 11th AA Birthday in Thailand that was in 1991. Back then there was only 2 meetings a week in Pattaya but they still helped me to stay sober.

Sobriety for the Alcoholic is a great way of life, I call it "living in Freedom"

[big carl]

It's my eleventh birthday today which I shall celebrate quietly at home with my family. I was up at 0430 to go birdwatching this morning. No one had to tell me what I did last night. I didn't drive home legless. My wife and kids are relatively happy people and if they are getting support to be able to live with me then I don't know about it. I didn't wet the bed last night and the house wasn't stinking of piss and shit this morning. It wasn't like this 12 years ago. I quit drinking and have been able to stay stopped because of AA.

If they said to me today:" look Gerry there's been mistake, you're not an alcoholic, you can drink" I'd like to think I'd stay stopped cos my life is so much better.

In a forum it's easy to be rational and logical about something like alcoholism and about the choices a drunk has. Pull yourself together man/woman take control of your life. ...... just what you want to hear when you're in year six of a vodka drip and have a preference for the solitude of your own room where you can develop your negatives and piss and shit in a bucket because it's too much of an effort to go. .....

At this stage you don't care if AA is run by Al Qaeda.

AA brings people back from this and much worse. We are by no means perfect. But we are a good option if you want to try quitting drinking.

Thanks for love.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Tapatalk

AA never ceases to amaze me. I had no intention of replying to any thing else on this thread but I was wrong

Congratulations.

Eleven years is a long time to be living a life mostly free from problems. Chances are you would not have made the eleven years. Good Job. Keep up the good work.

If your story is like mine I have to offer your wife some congratulations for staying with you through some of those dark years.

[tominbkk]

Most chapters make you recite the Lord's Prayer at the end. So yeah, I guess.

AA doesn't make you do anything, especially recite the lords prayer. Some meetings do end with the lords prayer, the majority of the meetings I have attended have not ended with it.

Have you ever been to AA?

The two groups I attended in the States were quite religious in nature, lots of God stuff, and everyone in the room recited the Lord's Prayer in very earnest voices. Hard for an atheistic buddhist to handle,,,,,,

[tominbkk]

If I don't like one meeting, I don't condemn the entire (time tested) program. I find another.

Have you ever tried other methods?

[tominbkk]

It's my eleventh birthday today which I shall celebrate quietly at home with my family. I was up at 0430 to go birdwatching this morning. No one had to tell me what I did last night. I didn't drive home legless. My wife and kids are relatively happy people and if they are getting support to be able to live with me then I don't know about it. I didn't wet the bed last night and the house wasn't stinking of piss and shit this morning. It wasn't like this 12 years ago. I quit drinking and have been able to stay stopped because of AA.

If they said to me today:" look Gerry there's been mistake, you're not an alcoholic, you can drink" I'd like to think I'd stay stopped cos my life is so much better.

In a forum it's easy to be rational and logical about something like alcoholism and about the choices a drunk has. Pull yourself together man/woman take control of your life. ...... just what you want to hear when you're in year six of a vodka drip and have a preference for the solitude of your own room where you can develop your negatives and piss and shit in a bucket because it's too much of an effort to go. .....

At this stage you don't care if AA is run by Al Qaeda.

AA brings people back from this and much worse. We are by no means perfect. But we are a good option if you want to try quitting drinking.

Thanks for love.

Sent from my GT-S7270L using Tapatalk

AA never ceases to amaze me. I had no intention of replying to any thing else on this thread but I was wrong

Congratulations.

Eleven years is a long time to be living a life mostly free from problems. Chances are you would not have made the eleven years. Good Job. Keep up the good work.

If your story is like mine I have to offer your wife some congratulations for staying with you through some of those dark years.

Happy that it works for you and all. The important thing is to realize that different things work for different people. I like the support, thus I make my daily visit to http://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking. Lots of people there, doing AA, RR, or their own thing. Sharing there gives me strength, especially if I can help somebody else.

Allen Carr's book, the Way to Control Drinking is amazing. He does bash AA a bit for the way it forces people to feel they are helpless victims of their own disease and never able to be free of regular meetings. The book itself is amazing, it somehow created a paradigm shift in my thinking and I have never looked back. Sure I get urges, but I quell them with logic and various coping skills and diversions that are healthy choices.

[impulse]

If I don't like one meeting, I don't condemn the entire (time tested) program. I find another.

Have you ever tried other methods?

Why would I?

BTW, in 10 years in China, I never went to a single meeting. The closest one to me was a 4 hour round trip car ride. Kind of pokes holes in the "never free of regular meetings" claim. In fairness, I'd go to some meetings when I went back to the States every 6-12 months, so it wasn't 10 years in a row- usually 6-10 months at a time.

You tried 2 of the 10's of thousands of groups in the USA. Did you try a 3rd or 4th before condemning the program? There are lots of meetings I tried once and never went back. Other people loved them. I didn't care for them. So I found others.

Edit: I don't go to meetings out of a sense of need. I go to meetings because I love them. If I'm going back the the USA, I can't wait to get to my old meetings where I used to hang out. I look forward to them for months. I go to meet people, and catch up with friends and go out to dinner before the meeting or coffee after the meeting. I get to hear how other people have dealt with life's problems, a lot of which I've either faced, or will face eventually. I get to watch people come in bruised, battered and beaten down by alcohol and watch them grow and reconnect to estranged families, and get jobs and become pretty great people. It's hard to explain that to people who think AA is just about "putting the plug in the jug" and tolerating life without alcohol.

I'm sure it's possible to stay sober out of a book. You seem to be proof. Could I stay sober without ever going to another meeting? I did for many years, and have no doubt I could do it again if I had to. But then I would be missing out on the best part of life.