Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[mikebike]

We're going off topic here, but were the '15 days at landborders' not introduced in 2006 or 2007?

2008-09 I believe...

Just found it... December 2008.

Link to thread OP:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/227227-translation-of-new-15-day-exempt-entry-rule/?p=2379979

[MacWalen]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SantiSuk]

this does not affect me but i wonder if it would affect all that use the 30 days visa exempt correctly.

Ie fly into Thailand without a visa, stay 2 weeks than travel to Cambodia for a week an return to Thailand for a week before heading home ( or up to Lao or down to Malaysia/Singpore/Bali)

So now they CANNOT do this?

and will need apply for a tourist visa outside to come back in.

This will hit those legit tourist as well.

Now you have to plan your trip and get the right visas sorted in advance, just like in any other part of the world.

Shame, but inevitable that under-regulated activities in one part of the world eventually move towards the regulated

[ExpatOilWorker]

About 5 years ago, a friend of mine came to Thailand with his wife and 3 young kids for a 1 month vacation. The reason for the trip was that the youngest kid suffered from asthma especially during the western winter. The Thai climate turned out to be a miracle cure for the kids asthma, so they extended their stay to 60 days by passing one of the land borders during their stay.

Can anybody honestly claim they abused Thailand's visa exempt system and should be forced to travel through Bangkok's traffic (twice) and do a round-trip flight to extend their stay?

"Can anybody honestly claim they abused Thailand's visa exempt system..."

Yes.

When they 'discovered' that the Thai climate was a 'miracle cure' and decided to extend their stay beyond the legal limitations of a Visa Exempt entry for this reason they were legally required to exit the country and obtain a proper Tourist Visa from a Thai embassy/consulate abroad to continue the child's hospice. By choosing to do a 'border-run' rather than obtaining a visa, which they may well have been advised was the best course of action, they, probably unwittingly, broke the law. Ignorance equals abuse for the most part. If you do not even take the time to research and comprehend laws how can you expect not to fall victim to them?

Think of the situation in reverse. A Thai child has a malady that is 'miraculously' cured on a vaycay with the family to Aus. To get to Aus in the first place the Thai family had to jump more hoops, squeeze into more pigeon-holes, and supply reams more paper just do begin the visa application process - no Visa-On-Arrival or Visa Exempt for them. THEN when their visa expired do you believe Aussie Immigration would allow them to 'hop' on over to NZ or Indo and return WITHOUT obtaining another visa (a minimum 30 day process BTW)?

I don't understand what makes following a country's visa and immigration laws so difficult. Its not about individual convenience peeps.

There are plenty of down right inhuman visa rules out there, but I don't see why Thailand should go down that rabbit hole and how that will benefit the country as a whole?

A friend of mine once arrived in Moscow at 10 pm, but his visa was only valid for the next day. No problem he though, I will just wait 2 hours in the transit area until midnight, but NIET!

Back on the same plane all the way to Houston. He was upset, especially because once he arrived in the US, the company had another ticket for Moscow ready for him.

[steveolevi]

I just finished a teachign contract and my one year visa ended March 25th. I went out and got 30 days (G7) and came back overland. My new tourist visa expires May 24th. I have afligth going out of Thailand on June 2.

What can I do between tourist visa expiration (May 24th) and my flight out (June 2).

[notmyself]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

As an aside, can I study English being I'm from the UK?

[Spoonman]

I just finished a teachign contract and my one year visa ended March 25th. I went out and got 30 days (G7) and came back overland. My new tourist visa expires May 24th. I have afligth going out of Thailand on June 2.

What can I do between tourist visa expiration (May 24th) and my flight out (June 2).

As you have a tourist visa you can get an extension from immigration.

[boomerangutang]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

[BeforeTigers]

I had heard about some people making endless border runs to extend their stay indefinitely.
I never believed it.

Instead, I've been working at a job I don't particularly enjoy, just to keep a proper visa.
Feeling slightly conflicted about it at the moment.

[Spoonman]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

[Chang_paarp]

Who remembers the 90 days out of 180 days that immigration tried to enforce a couple of years ago? Where the immigration officer would note down how many days you had been in the country in past 180 days. You were only allowed 90 days, this could include the up coming period, if you exceeded you were sent to an embassy for a proper visa.

This is just repeat of that concept with a new twist.

[boomerangutang]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

[Tanis]

If you are unable to grasp the difference between enforcement against the abuse of tourist visas and Nazi genocide/political repression, you are truly an idiot.

You must be referring to the USA...

ohhh...don't get me started. I'm flying there on Tuesday with my wife.

@ CaptHaddock

Apparently you have mastered the art of equivocation. Congratulations. Well done my friend. Pleasantries aside only "idiots" resort to vicious ad hominem attacks. Only a "fool" would conclude that I was trying to compare this visa clampdown to that of Nazi Germany or some other vile political repression. I have reported your inappropriate comment to the mods and kindly encourage you to keep your language civil at all times. Thank you

.

[ubonjoe]

Who remembers the 90 days out of 180 days that immigration tried to enforce a couple of years ago? Where the immigration officer would note down how many days you had been in the country in past 180 days. You were only allowed 90 days, this could include the up coming period, if you exceeded you were sent to an embassy for a proper visa.

This is just repeat of that concept with a new twist.

That rule went away over 5 years ago and was replaced by the 15 days at a border crossing rule.

I would say this new one is much different and is a sure way to stop serial border runners. Which is what they thought the 15 day rule would do without the problems the 90 in 180 days caused.

[Mango Bob]

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jethro69, on 11 May 2014 - 13:32, said:

uptheos, on 11 May 2014 - 13:11, said:

MacWalen, on 11 May 2014 - 12:48, said:

In case you need an ED visa Walen School provides most reliable service. Thousands of satisfied customers.

I think your business will pick up considerably soon.

Probably, and then everybody here complains, the ED-Visa is abused. alt=bah.gif>

What's the correct Visa for someone, who lives on his Savings, is not yet 50 (retirement visa), does none business, volunteering, study, is there any????

Don't come now up, with the investment visa (requires 10 million, right). Who want to invest 10 million, in a country where the gov. changes twice a year alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

Why do you think Thailand owes you the right to come here just because you want to. You either met the visa requirements or stay home. Very simple.

[TPI]

From my understanding this applies to land crossings, what about air? If one was to fly out /in, does same apply?

It appears (wife translating) that after August 12th you will have to wait for at least 30 days for your next entry via "tourist" visa even if you exit and propose to enter via air!!!

Why do so many people have a problem with people coming and going without a visa? Prior to modern times all you needed was to get off the boat!!

[Spoonman]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

505b is the actual cost for a 5 year licence no matter the hair on your arms or the size of your nose so I fail to see what you are complaining about. the 105b is the cost of a 1 year licence. would you have preferred the 1 year one ?

[mike2011]

I think it is best we distinguish between conforming to Thai law and the spirit of Thai law on the one hand as opposed to finding one's way around the regulations. The here accursed "milkers", aka visa runners, belong to the second category as do nominal students. Both groups depend on local providers who are fully aware of the circumstances. What I like about the visa run companies is that they are upfront and do not present themselves in a false light. This is a low standard but some other business still needs to work hard to reach such low heights.

For the businessman: Did you take back the unfounded rumor about the Non-immigrant visa? Dont tell us more about white ravens or the possibility that something might happen. Such games do not reflect well on the poster. Until then: In my opinion, your posting is just a game to stirr fears and aimed at promoting your economic interests.

As for your insinuation concerning my future needs: Sorry, no chance to make a dime from me. Which is also good as I can post free of concerns what a certain business owners like or not. Again your allusion is not a recommendation quite the opposite. Always nice to have real input as it is much closer to reality than any ad could ever be.

On a positive note: The authorities at Mai Sai were very thoughtful in applying their orders. They stopped people from leaving, fully understanding the problems the runners would face once on the other side of the border. In the US and castle Europe, authorities are only to happy to see people on the other side of border without any worries. The instructions were aimed at "entry" to the country and not at "exit" from it. They were flexible enough to bring out the worst in officials but being in Thailand they brought out the best in those officials. Big "thank you" is due to those officials. They acted as gentlemen and in a very kind manner.

[boomerangutang]

Who remembers the 90 days out of 180 days that immigration tried to enforce a couple of years ago? Where the immigration officer would note down how many days you had been in the country in past 180 days. You were only allowed 90 days, this could include the up coming period, if you exceeded you were sent to an embassy for a proper visa.

This is just repeat of that concept with a new twist.

With border buffoons, you have to try and gauge what rules they're enforcing and what's 'mai pen rai.' About 9 years ago there was a rule that each farang entering Thailand at Mae Sai (and other crossings?) to show Bt.20,000. they still have the paper sign saying that - hung up for all to see. Guess how diligently they enforced that? The first week or so, they asked a few people. After that, nada. That law is additionally screwed, because there are no ATM's on the other side of the border, so every would-be thief in the Burmese border town is thinking, 'wow, that clumsy farang is carrying at least 20,000 baht cash in his pocket. Hmmm.'

I can picture the top Imm officers bending the rules for some. Particularly a very pretty/sexy farang, or perhaps a well attired man who smells of money. He'll look left and right, then smile and wink, and say to the troubled traveler (who can't re-enter Thailand), don't worry, I'll help you. Thai officialdom is subjective and easily influenced by paper money.

Also: why use the word 'Final' in the title of this thread? Nothing is final. There are always lower depths that Thai officialdom can devolve to. There are always new ways to make things difficult for farang. They've got to assert who's in charge, don't they?

[mikebike]

1. There are plenty of down right inhuman visa rules out there, but I don't see why Thailand should go down that rabbit hole and how that will benefit the country as a whole?

2. A friend of mine once arrived in Moscow at 10 pm, but his visa was only valid for the next day. No problem he though, I will just wait 2 hours in the transit area until midnight, but NIET!

Back on the same plane all the way to Houston. He was upset, especially because once he arrived in the US, the company had another ticket for Moscow ready for him.

1. Refer to SAntiSuk's observation (post 607), which, truly unfortunately, is the reality.

"Shame, but inevitable that under-regulated activities in one part of the world eventually move towards the regulated"

its all about control and lock-stepping with the paranoia of Washington and their patently ridiculous 'Homeland Security' initiatives.

2. In a sarcastic tone I ask, "Did your friend check with the Russian Foreign Ministry regarding waiting in the Transit Area when he booked a ticket arriving BEFORE his visa was valid OR did he just believe in Hollywood stories?"

[boomerangutang]

505b is the actual cost for a 5 year licence no matter the hair on your arms or the size of your nose so I fail to see what you are complaining about. the 105b is the cost of a 1 year licence. would you have preferred the 1 year one ?

Thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood her giving me two different costs.

[mikebike]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

Could be because of the number of times the same 'suggestion' has been posted in the same thread... And yes, I do realize that he is paying for that privilege.

[DP25]

I just finished a teachign contract and my one year visa ended March 25th. I went out and got 30 days (G7) and came back overland. My new tourist visa expires May 24th. I have afligth going out of Thailand on June 2.

What can I do between tourist visa expiration (May 24th) and my flight out (June 2).

As you have a tourist visa you can get an extension from immigration.

He says he did 30 days under G7, so I don't think he has a tourist visa. His post isn't clear. But if he doesn't have a tourist visa, under the new rule, his only option would be to overstay, or pay hundreds of dollars and go to Laos and apply for a tourist visa.

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either. For a Filipino teacher going to Lao for a tourist visa could be half a month salary, while border runs were free for them because of ASEAN.

[notmyself]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

Could be because of the number of times the same 'suggestion' has been posted in the same thread... And yes, I do realize that he is paying for that privilege.

Has a good name outside of TV also. Sure there are some bad stories but on the whole it would be a service I would use.

[DP25]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

Could be because of the number of times the same 'suggestion' has been posted in the same thread... And yes, I do realize that he is paying for that privilege.

Well, it's a good suggestion, especially for people who are living on border runs. Walen didn't make this new rule, they are just informing people there is an alternative, one that would let them learn Thai and in the long run probably save them money. It's a very long thread and no one is going to read through every post, so the occasional update seems very reasonable to me.

[hyperdimension]

Mae Sod as there you can also only return to Thailand and not travel much further into Myanmar.

Just to be technically accurate, you can travel into Myanmar if you entered Myanmar at the approved list of border crossings (which currently includes Mae Sot - Myawaddy, Mae Sai -Tachilek, Ranong - Kawthaung, Phu Nam Ron - Htee Kee) using a valid visa for Myanmar (e.g. tourist visa), which requires prior application and collection (e.g. at the Myanmar Embassy on Sathorn Road). A day pass however would not allow further travel into Myanmar.

Last September I crossed the border from Mae Sot into Myawaddy using a Myanmar tourist visa and then onto Yangon by bus.

[jago25]

Visas are ultimately about territory. Territory is emotional. Expect trouble.

However...

people, (like tax systems) are still a market and the market usually wins eventually.

[Spoonman]

I just finished a teachign contract and my one year visa ended March 25th. I went out and got 30 days (G7) and came back overland. My new tourist visa expires May 24th. I have afligth going out of Thailand on June 2.

What can I do between tourist visa expiration (May 24th) and my flight out (June 2).

As you have a tourist visa you can get an extension from immigration.

He says he did 30 days under G7, so I don't think he has a tourist visa. His post isn't clear. But if he doesn't have a tourist visa, under the new rule, his only option would be to overstay, or pay hundreds of dollars and go to Laos and apply for a tourist visa.

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either. For a Filipino teacher going to Lao for a tourist visa could be half a month salary, while border runs were free for them because of ASEAN.

He says his tourist visa expires on the 24th of may.

As to the rest of your post it is exactly that why this clamp down is needed as the people you describe are clearly not tourists so they should organize a visa to allow them to stay.

[stuurman]

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

Could be because of the number of times the same 'suggestion' has been posted in the same thread... And yes, I do realize that he is paying for that privilege.

Given MacWalens comments in this topic I understand the hostility he encounters on this forum a lot better.

[mikebike]

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either.

Fully understood but... what you don't seem to understand is that the Thai education system has been exploiting NES teachers as a matter of daily business. Being underfunded I sympathize with the authorities predicament BUT the root cause of qualified teachers issues lies with individual schools, agencies and the Ministry of Education exploiting the system by not basing contracts on a annual basis to coincide with employment visa renewal requirements applicable to all sectors of employment. NES teachers are the victims of the Thai english-language education system trying to 'game' their own immigration and visa laws. The system would fail entirely if it weren't for the seeming endless supply of mostly young, native english speakers willing to put themselves through this ordeal to support their lifestyle/travel without fully understanding or researching the situation they are putting themselves in.