Effect of back-to-back visa-run clampdown on teachers

[simon43]

There is a main thread running in the Visa forum about the recent news that land border 'visa-runners' will no longer be allowed to do back-to-back visa-runs.

Now if all schools played by the rules, then foreign teachers would all have work permits from day 1 of their employment and would have the correct non-immigrant B (or O if married) visa etc.

But I'm sure that is not the case

I am sure there are many foreign teachers working without the proper visa, either because they can't be bothered to obtain that visa, or (more likely), their employer can't be bothered to provide/assist to obtain the correct visa.

What effect do you think this clampdown will have on foreign teachers in Thailand?

Will the visa-runner teachers become overstay teachers?

Will these teachers return to their home country/seek teaching jobs in other countries?

Will this clampdown be beneficial to foreign teachers in the longer term, (since schools will have to provide/assist to obtain the correct visa if they want to employ the teacher?

Your thoughts?

Simon

[Scott]

Oh, goodness, a difficult dilemma.

A lot of teachers when they start, will have a visa on arrival from the airport. They will probably have been in Thailand for a time and will have made 1 or 2 border runs.

Depending on when they were interviewed and hired -- we do not have time to get the paperwork for the non-immigrant B ready for them before their visa (or visa exemption) runs out. We do have some who were interviewed early and have gotten the paperwork done, but they still have to go and get the visa. For most teachers, the paperwork needs to go to the Ministry of Education for approval first.

[Scott]

If anybody has anything to report on this, please let us know right away. The start of school is just around the corner.

[onlycw]

They are hopeless. Remember the head of the education committee or something wanting to attract better teachers by making things tougher for them? No higher salaries, of course...

Folks who live in Ivory Towers are on course for destroying this country.

Vietnamese tourists now need to have $ 700 cash etc. etc. Me, I predict more and more folks will be voting with their feet.

Too much hassle for low pay. A friend is happy but still technically open to get deported any time as a NES. Because schools won't do the paperwork...

This will be huge - or teachers will learn that there is a skidzophrenic difference between rules and laws and the reality.

[schondie]

Well, I have had enough with these schools (low salaries and high expectations) and I'm heading off to the UK for a few months before planning on where to go next.

It's a little bit difficult for me as I'm married but I just can't stand this attitude any longer, I must get out of this system for the sake of my sanity. As you said "Too much hassle for low pay. A friend is happy but still technically open to get deported any time as a NES. Because schools won't do the paperwork..."

I've been "employed " since just after Songkran but still there's no contract or any sign of a B visa. The school actually asked me to carry on working on a Non O (I don't want to as it costs me 5500 baht a year and the school is trying to save 2800 baht).

I've already noticed that the applications from NES are far fewer than in the past but schools still cling to the belief that NES are way overpaid on 30,000 baht and expect you to jump through so many hoops to keep them happy.

The school I'm "working" at still has a vacancy for a NES to teach Kindergarten as term starts this Thursday but there's been one unsuitable application. Hmm. Make that two vacancies the day after I receive my pay.

This private school is one of seven schools in the province owned by the same couple and are always oversubscribed but they're being so cheap with their new costly EP. No CDs for the books, no reading books for the reading corner and it goes on and on. Sorry for my rant but I've just had enough and I'll be glad to hear about schools not getting the NES they've promised the parents.

It's time for some serious loss of face and then a great big portion of humble pie before things improve for teachers in this country. Scrap that thought, no one will lose face and those pesky foreigners are to blame for this mess as usual.

They are hopeless. Remember the head of the education committee or something wanting to attract better teachers by making things tougher for them? No higher salaries, of course...

Folks who live in Ivory Towers are on course for destroying this country.

Vietnamese tourists now need to have $ 700 cash etc. etc. Me, I predict more and more folks will be voting with their feet.

Too much hassle for low pay. A friend is happy but still technically open to get deported any time as a NES. Because schools won't do the paperwork...

This will be huge - or teachers will learn that there is a skidzophrenic difference between rules and laws and the reality.

[lostinisaan]

My first thought was what will happen to all the guys who always renewed their tourist visas and continued working for many years.

The last job advertisement at ajarn was pretty much hopeless.So many people from Cameroon and the Philippines can be seen all over the country now, but you barely meet guys who're really good in English.

The most surprising fact for me is that most of them are holding a teachers' license, issued by the TCT in Bangkok. One of them had a TOEIC score of 399 points out of 950.

I also have my family here and was quite a few times very close to go back. But there's no way to take them to my country.I could neither save enough money from a teacher's salary, nor would I have a job lined up.

I couldn't even save enough money for airplane tickets, not even thinking about how to get them to Europe.

I feel very sorry for all the guys who're directly affected by this questionable change of law.

Staying at a country, where you are not making enough money to feed a family, or going back to start at nil.

Are they awaiting more quality tourists now? I'm speechless. Good luck to all, who're affected.

Edited May 11, 2014 by lostinisaan

[Som wat]

Most will probably just go to get a Tourist Visa (double or triple entry) until their visa change can be done.

That would give them what, 6 months or more.

Can't see any big issue about it. Other than teachers working on incorrect visas of course, which would have been the case anyway in your example.

If anything the school might just say that well now that you have a 6 month visa (with border runs and extensions), just go and get another one of them for the second six months of the contract. Could be cheaper and easier for the school.

[Mencken]

I see it as a plus for teachers with a degree. In a normal situation, the diploma and experience should trump non-degreed grifters and Cameroonians. But TiT where it is only about money. So, I predict that huge numbers of these people will be forced out. Better for those with degrees.

What will ensue must equate to an even larger shortage than even existed prior. This is also giid for the degreed. I hope it forces the TCT into a number of actions and reforms. The best of which would be to simply get them producing.

Hopefully, this will kill off a lot of skeezy agencies as well. It is time for tje better agencies to step up and get aggressive with sales and recruitment.

To the point on the B vs O visa.You highlighted exactly why it is better to be on an O, but you cheap it out and want the school to pay. OK, you are getting what you are (not) paying for. I much prefer an O and willing to pay!

If something goes wrong, I cancel the wp, go home and watch the BBC and make myself a scotch. B visa life becomes a turmoil.

Now with these changes, after you leave the country ( you may (?) Be able to turn around with an exempt stamp, maybe need a visa. Will they give you a TR after seeing your B visa and wp notes? Are you a tourist?

If you want to be cheap about it, O visa is 1900. Even the cost of multiple over a year is <500b month. Suck it up, it pays for itself in.peace of mind and maybe even literally.

You are first person I have read who prefers a B and you teally dont prefer it, you are just being cheap.

At this juncture, I do not think it all ethical to encourage people, to come here and work. If you are here, fine, stay. But this is just another monumental bs complication that persons seeking rral jobs and wages do not need.

The govt would never act on its own, hopefully this drain on the teaching pool will force a number of entities into hetting off their asses

[Mencken]

Most will probably just go to get a Tourist Visa (double or triple entry) until their visa change can be done.

That would give them what, 6 months or more.

Can't see any big issue about it. Other than teachers working on incorrect visas of course, which would have been the case anyway in your example.

If anything the school might just say that well now that you have a 6 month visa (with border runs and extensions), just go and get another one of them for the second six months of the contract. Could be cheaper and easier for the school.

If you value legal status, you need to walk away after 100 days. How much are all those runners costing you? Be certain, Poipet is going to get ugly from here on out. Id surmise same of Mae Sai.

[newatthis]

Most will probably just go to get a Tourist Visa (double or triple entry) until their visa change can be done.

That would give them what, 6 months or more.

Can't see any big issue about it. Other than teachers working on incorrect visas of course, which would have been the case anyway in your example.

If anything the school might just say that well now that you have a 6 month visa (with border runs and extensions), just go and get another one of them for the second six months of the contract. Could be cheaper and easier for the school.

If you value legal status, you need to walk away after 100 days. How much are all those runners costing you? Be certain, Poipet is going to get ugly from here on out. Id surmise same of Mae Sai.

And not only the cost of the border runs but also our school deducts your pay for every day absent while doing the run. The frustrating part is the "Don't you worry; you family now; you be happy" attitude of the school when the new teachers ask about the paperwork for non-B and the work permit.

[Mencken]

^^ that is just nonsense. why would anyone work under such conditions ffx! refuse to get you a proper visa then all expenses oop and loss of pay

add this to the other deductibles, including a tefl if you have done that. that is a loss, not a gain.

when i used to do runners in penang bet i saw 100 teachers stuck down there with bs bad paperwork. agencies would knowingly send them down, let them sit a day then come up with the idea...hey, just get a tr, come back up, teach a few months and we will sort you out. wrong, not going to happen.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Mencken

[alanrchase]

Why do people get so upset because they may no longer be overlooked for working illegally?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[belg]

was this not a good idea to flush out some people working illegally ?

russian hookers, pimps, african drug mules & dealers ? taking away jobs from the thais

loooooooooooooooool

[Suradit69]

Oh, goodness, a difficult dilemma.

A lot of teachers when they start, will have a visa on arrival from the airport. They will probably have been in Thailand for a time and will have made 1 or 2 border runs.

Depending on when they were interviewed and hired -- we do not have time to get the paperwork for the non-immigrant B ready for them before their visa (or visa exemption) runs out. We do have some who were interviewed early and have gotten the paperwork done, but they still have to go and get the visa. For most teachers, the paperwork needs to go to the Ministry of Education for approval first.

"will have a visa on arrival from the airport"

No. They may have a visa exempt entry, but very few people are eligible for a visa on arrival.

The issues with land crossings now is with those who are making border runs, not visa runs. If they cross the border assuming they can turn around and get another visa exempt entry into Thailand, they will have a problem. If they possess a visa or a re-entry permit or if they cross the border to get to a Thai embassy where they obtain a proper visa for entry to Thailand , there shouldn't be a problem ... yet.

Using the correct terms at a time like this is especially important or you add to the confusion.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Suradit69

[PattayaPhom]

Isnt this the whole reason for the clampdown, stop people working illegally. If the option of a WP isnt there dont accept or continue the job.

[KonaRain]

visa exempt turnarounds are extinct..

[DoctorG]

I really do not understand all the problems that teachers on here keep complaining about.

When I had the misfortune to attempt teaching in BKK, I was hired from abroad, the school paid my airfare, they paid for a nice apartment for me, and they arranged all the necessary permits.

Simple really.

[KonaRain]

you have a phd. then..?

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ScotBkk]

was this not a good idea to flush out some people working illegally ?

russian hookers, pimps, african drug mules & dealers ? taking away jobs from the thais

loooooooooooooooool

Funniest comment seen on thaivisa for ages hahaha

[Rorri]

PattayaPhom, on 12 May 2014 - 09:59, said:

Isnt this the whole reason for the clampdown, stop people working illegally. If the option of a WP isnt there dont accept or continue the job.

I believe the reason given was that people who do visa runs so regularly are criminals.... go figure, of course this simply is not true, by hey, it's the way these people think.

[Mario2008]

If you are bewteen schools or the school is slow with getting the needed paperwork together you now instead of an additional border run must go and apply for a tourist visa. That will cost more time and money, but is very easy to do.

As for people working for schools that don't want to provide the paperwork, the rule is intended to put a stop to that. Schools or agencies who do this will have less options and to stay in business will need to provide the correct paperwork or change teachers every few months.

[jiean]

I have no idea why ppl kept complaining about the visa stuff here working as a teacher ..

It seems pretty easy for me to get all the papers done.( B.Ed ,and transcript , the rest of supporting documents were prepared by school itself . First thing the school has done was to send my B. Ed and transcript to ministry of education for approval , and then they took all of these papers to immigration , this is the way how I was issued Non- B visa (3 month ) from my 2 month tourist visa first ,( shortly we have done 1 year non -B visa extension before the previous 3 month Non -B visa went expired ), then I attended thai culture and language short course (2 days plus 5000฿ ) and got a certificate , the next was to give this certificate to my school and I got my teacher 's ' license after 3 months. Meanwhile , I got a medical certificate form a clinic and was issued a work permit ......

Iv been here for 8 yrs and I have never struggled with this non - b visa which is pretty easy to be processed with proper papers ....

[duanebigsby]

I really do not understand all the problems that teachers on here keep complaining about.

When I had the misfortune to attempt teaching in BKK, I was hired from abroad, the school paid my airfare, they paid for a nice apartment for me, and they arranged all the necessary permits.

Simple really.

Simple for you and it was simple for me. Most schools arrange and get sorted the work permit for the teachers.

Many do not. A lot of schools and agencies will lead the teachers on and never help them with permits and teaching legally.

Those are the teachers complaining as they have been doing border runs or back to back tourist visas while teaching illegally.

Optimistically, the new enforcement of the rules will force these schools into doing the proper paperwork and get their teachers legal, but I suspect it will just hurt the teachers. They will have to find better schools to work at.

[easybullet3]

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Oh, goodness, a difficult dilemma.

A lot of teachers when they start, will have a visa on arrival from the airport. They will probably have been in Thailand for a time and will have made 1 or 2 border runs.

Depending on when they were interviewed and hired -- we do not have time to get the paperwork for the non-immigrant B ready for them before their visa (or visa exemption) runs out. We do have some who were interviewed early and have gotten the paperwork done, but they still have to go and get the visa. For most teachers, the paperwork needs to go to the Ministry of Education for approval first.

If anybody has anything to report on this, please let us know right away. The start of school is just around the corner.

Why do people get so upset because they may no longer be overlooked for working illegally?

i cant see any problem if they just get 60 day tourist visa's instead of the free 15 or 30 days visa!!!

nothing in immigration seems to have changed except the fact that they want you to PAY 1000 baht for the formal tourist visa (60 days).

then you can continue to enter and re-enter to your hearts content!!! (provided you don't have more than 5 or so entries in a given passport!! at which point you need to get a new passport).

if you can see,, they are just trying to get 1000 baht for everyone as a money-making scheme. That's all it is.

so all of the problems listed in this forum are all solved by getting the official tourist visa.. and you can do it BACK-2-BACK as often as you want

[Luxius]

"I am sure there are many foreign teachers working without the proper visa, either because they can't be bothered to obtain that visa, or (more likely), their employer can't be bothered to provide/assist to obtain the correct visa."

Then you're &lt;deleted&gt;, and you asked for it.

Let's hope they dish out work permit visas in the future, no matter what this means to the current illegal work force in Thailand. They still can't speak enough English, so they badly need the teachers.

/Lux

[Som wat]

Most will probably just go to get a Tourist Visa (double or triple entry) until their visa change can be done.

That would give them what, 6 months or more.

Can't see any big issue about it. Other than teachers working on incorrect visas of course, which would have been the case anyway in your example.

If anything the school might just say that well now that you have a 6 month visa (with border runs and extensions), just go and get another one of them for the second six months of the contract. Could be cheaper and easier for the school.

If you value legal status, you need to walk away after 100 days. How much are all those runners costing you? Be certain, Poipet is going to get ugly from here on out. Id surmise same of Mae Sai.

I've never worked in Thailand, and never will work in Thailand.

[Som wat]

was this not a good idea to flush out some people working illegally ?

russian hookers, pimps, african drug mules & dealers ? taking away jobs from the thais

loooooooooooooooool

Funniest comment seen on thaivisa for ages hahaha

What was your last nick, this only has 22 posts and signed up last month.

[somchaismith]

Won't effect them as they'll probably just go into overstay.

[wilcopops]

I really do not understand all the problems that teachers on here keep complaining about.

When I had the misfortune to attempt teaching in BKK, I was hired from abroad, the school paid my airfare, they paid for a nice apartment for me, and they arranged all the necessary permits.

Simple really.

So what did they stamp on your passport when you entered the country?

[nongsangcity]

If anybody has anything to report on this, please let us know right away. The start of school is just around the corner.

I am just wondering if you can answer me a question please, I was offered a teaching position recently....I have an non o from the uk based on being married to a thai citizen...I went to sakhon nakhon immigration last week and I was told I must have a B visa to work....I keep reading you can work on an non o if married to a thai...the immigration said I couldn't work on my non o which is in my passport......any clues please...what is the legal requirement regarding on non o visa......thank you