We can't pick a new PM, senior Thai judge says

[khunken]

The problem with all of this is that there is simply too much that has happened in the last seven months that is without precedent. And the result of that cumulatively is that the current situation is truly without precedent - in a variety of outstanding ways. The constitution is a reasonably all-inclusive document, but one suspects that this particular situation was not only not envisioned as possible but likely believed to be impossible. In political terms - it is the perfect storm. What happens when a dingy is unfortunate enough to find itself in the middle of a hurricane ? Refer to the marine manual ? More likely pray. And so it is here. The judge cited in this article is quite correct regarding Suthep's particular idea of an interim prime minister nominated through judges. But Suthep's initiative is not the only one around. His just happens to be the wildest. The one bandied about much more seriously is the nomination of a prime minister through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. We know that the election of February 2 didn't pan out. We know that a quorum was not reached in parliament. We know that on March 5, the caretaker administration passed the 30 day mark without convening a quorum-filled parliament. Since then, it's been open season for all sides of the political spectrum, with the army looking nervously on in the distance. The courts have tried to work through it, and have succeeded to the extent that their rulings were not obstructed, or delayed, or challenged. But that's a lot of qualifiers. The very people who are constitutionally empowered to interpret the constitution are the judges of the Constitutional Court. And yet their rulings have been challenged to a degree that takes the breath away. When you take away the highest judicial opinion, all that is left is anarchy. The Pheu Thai administration has not done well to propagate the notion that court rulings need to be routinely respected. In fact, they see a ruling as only a suggestion that can be overlooked or deliberately misinterpreted. And in fact Pheu Thai's insistence on a counter narrative - one that is belligerent and challenges the authority of the court - has done more to damage the judicial line of authority than even the UDD - because the UDD is not in government ( officially ).

So how will this play out ? The pattern of how this will play out has less to do with the dynamics of all that has surfaced that is without precedent, and more to do with simple human nature. The pattern that will prevail is how people have reacted to conflict of this significance before. Given the fact that people actually sitting down and talking is the only way out of this conflict, and given the fact that too many people are simply unprepared to do just that, events will likely be determined by a limited intervention from the military to restore order and security. The very role Prayuth did not want to play seems like it will be thrust upon him nonetheless. It is not the constitutional solution. But it is the most likely. And hopefully out of that, an incentive to sit down and reach a reasonable consensus will result from all the disparate parties. If that happens, let us hope there will not be an absence of enough reasonable minds.

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

[Dogmatix]

"To appoint a new Cabinet and PM while the current one is still in power is unconstitutional and may be deemed a violation of the royal power," the statement said.

But there is no prime minister in power, only an acting caretaker one who was appointed by the remaints of the cabinet who were in turn appointed by the former PM who was sacked for misbehaviour in office.

[Publicus]

The three chiefs of the armed forces and the presiding judges of the courts Suthep has appealed to have outright rejected Suthep's groundhog day proposal to remove the government and appoint a PM. The armed forces chiefs and the presiding judges agree that trying to do so is a violation of royal power, is unconstitutional, undemocratic.

Suthep's idea is dead. If Suthep wants to follow his idea that would be up to him himself.

The government has been given a clear road by the army and the presiding judges of the courts involved to take out Suthep and the PDRC now.

I reiterate that the RTP, similar to the military and its Special Operations Forces, have several expert, highly trained specialized, disciplined anti-terrorism units and SWAT plus commando units that are not your fat cop on the sidewalk extorting baht from a vendor. These are seriously trained and prepared armed units.

The ammart has fractured and split apart and is doing so openly. The long grind since late last year, during which the ammart have had one failure after another, has taken its toll.

The situation of last week was reversed over the weekend. Get with it.

[Fat Haggis]

I have to have a little chuckle at scamper as much as he puts a lot of effort and apparent thought into his posts of which I also find pretty informative too at times , this time his constitutional "expertise" has been walloped by a 9 iron by the main General and also by real judges who preside over these very same constitutions!!

Leave the barrack room /barstool lawyer stuff out for a few days scamper me old china as today's events have made it look like you actually talk a good post, but actually know sweet FA when dealing with Thai's and their own laws especially the constitution you've been harping on about for weeks now, maybe take up needle craft

It's been a huge blow to sutheps attempts to seize power today. It's also perhaps best he starts to tone down his rhetoric and fade from view for a few weeks, his anti corruption stance was noble , but his actions and subsequent behaviour blocking the polling stations And impeding peoples civil rights turned a lot of supporters away.

What goes around comes around and today want a good day for the PDRC .

[Publicus]

"To appoint a new Cabinet and PM while the current one is still in power is unconstitutional and may be deemed a violation of the royal power," the statement said.

But there is no prime minister in power, only an acting caretaker one who was appointed by the remaints of the cabinet who were in turn appointed by the former PM who was sacked for misbehaviour in office.

You are pissing into the wind.

[Asiantravel]

"To appoint a new Cabinet and PM while the current one is still in power is unconstitutional and may be deemed a violation of the royal power," the statement said.

But there is no prime minister in power, only an acting caretaker one who was appointed by the remaints of the cabinet who were in turn appointed by the former PM who was sacked for misbehaviour in office.

You are pissing into the wind.

i think the whole PDRC movement are.....................

The headline in the newspaper ( that we are not allowed to cut and paste on here ) essentially refers to the opposition's plans as now being “ in tatters “

Edited May 12, 2014 by Asiantravel

[fab4]

I have to have a little chuckle at scamper as much as he puts a lot of effort and apparent thought into his posts of which I also find pretty informative too at times , this time his constitutional "expertise" has been walloped by a 9 iron by the main General and also by real judges who preside over these very same constitutions!!

Leave the barrack room /barstool lawyer stuff out for a few days scamper me old china as today's events have made it look like you actually talk a good post, but actually know sweet FA when dealing with Thai's and their own laws especially the constitution you've been harping on about for weeks now, maybe take up needle craft

It's been a huge blow to sutheps attempts to seize power today. It's also perhaps best he starts to tone down his rhetoric and fade from view for a few weeks, his anti corruption stance was noble , but his actions and subsequent behaviour blocking the polling stations And impeding peoples civil rights turned a lot of supporters away.

What goes around comes around and today want a good day for the PDRC .

I'm just looking forward to his apology to Jatuporn for saying that he was full of hot air when he stated that the Judges cannot pick a new PM.

What am I saying, scamper admit he's wrong? He'll be using paragraphs before that happens..............

[Publicus]

The problem with all of this is that there is simply too much that has happened in the last seven months that is without precedent. And the result of that cumulatively is that the current situation is truly without precedent - in a variety of outstanding ways. The constitution is a reasonably all-inclusive document, but one suspects that this particular situation was not only not envisioned as possible but likely believed to be impossible. In political terms - it is the perfect storm. What happens when a dingy is unfortunate enough to find itself in the middle of a hurricane ? Refer to the marine manual ? More likely pray. And so it is here. The judge cited in this article is quite correct regarding Suthep's particular idea of an interim prime minister nominated through judges. But Suthep's initiative is not the only one around. His just happens to be the wildest. The one bandied about much more seriously is the nomination of a prime minister through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. We know that the election of February 2 didn't pan out. We know that a quorum was not reached in parliament. We know that on March 5, the caretaker administration passed the 30 day mark without convening a quorum-filled parliament. Since then, it's been open season for all sides of the political spectrum, with the army looking nervously on in the distance. The courts have tried to work through it, and have succeeded to the extent that their rulings were not obstructed, or delayed, or challenged. But that's a lot of qualifiers. The very people who are constitutionally empowered to interpret the constitution are the judges of the Constitutional Court. And yet their rulings have been challenged to a degree that takes the breath away. When you take away the highest judicial opinion, all that is left is anarchy. The Pheu Thai administration has not done well to propagate the notion that court rulings need to be routinely respected. In fact, they see a ruling as only a suggestion that can be overlooked or deliberately misinterpreted. And in fact Pheu Thai's insistence on a counter narrative - one that is belligerent and challenges the authority of the court - has done more to damage the judicial line of authority than even the UDD - because the UDD is not in government ( officially ).

So how will this play out ? The pattern of how this will play out has less to do with the dynamics of all that has surfaced that is without precedent, and more to do with simple human nature. The pattern that will prevail is how people have reacted to conflict of this significance before. Given the fact that people actually sitting down and talking is the only way out of this conflict, and given the fact that too many people are simply unprepared to do just that, events will likely be determined by a limited intervention from the military to restore order and security. The very role Prayuth did not want to play seems like it will be thrust upon him nonetheless. It is not the constitutional solution. But it is the most likely. And hopefully out of that, an incentive to sit down and reach a reasonable consensus will result from all the disparate parties. If that happens, let us hope there will not be an absence of enough reasonable minds.

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

You are pissing into the wind but what is most interesting is that you neither know it nor can you feel it.

The ammart split wide open over the weekend and did it publicly.

The lower courts don't care about PTP.

The criminal court today issued the arrest warrants the government had been seeking for several months. Treason. Insurrection. Sedition. And that's for openers.

The government now has the justification it needed to take decisive action. I expect the government will take that decisive action. The police Special Operations units will get no resistance or interference from the armed forces.

The question now is how soon.

[Asiantravel]

The problem with all of this is that there is simply too much that has happened in the last seven months that is without precedent. And the result of that cumulatively is that the current situation is truly without precedent - in a variety of outstanding ways. The constitution is a reasonably all-inclusive document, but one suspects that this particular situation was not only not envisioned as possible but likely believed to be impossible. In political terms - it is the perfect storm. What happens when a dingy is unfortunate enough to find itself in the middle of a hurricane ? Refer to the marine manual ? More likely pray. And so it is here. The judge cited in this article is quite correct regarding Suthep's particular idea of an interim prime minister nominated through judges. But Suthep's initiative is not the only one around. His just happens to be the wildest. The one bandied about much more seriously is the nomination of a prime minister through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. We know that the election of February 2 didn't pan out. We know that a quorum was not reached in parliament. We know that on March 5, the caretaker administration passed the 30 day mark without convening a quorum-filled parliament. Since then, it's been open season for all sides of the political spectrum, with the army looking nervously on in the distance. The courts have tried to work through it, and have succeeded to the extent that their rulings were not obstructed, or delayed, or challenged. But that's a lot of qualifiers. The very people who are constitutionally empowered to interpret the constitution are the judges of the Constitutional Court. And yet their rulings have been challenged to a degree that takes the breath away. When you take away the highest judicial opinion, all that is left is anarchy. The Pheu Thai administration has not done well to propagate the notion that court rulings need to be routinely respected. In fact, they see a ruling as only a suggestion that can be overlooked or deliberately misinterpreted. And in fact Pheu Thai's insistence on a counter narrative - one that is belligerent and challenges the authority of the court - has done more to damage the judicial line of authority than even the UDD - because the UDD is not in government ( officially ).

So how will this play out ? The pattern of how this will play out has less to do with the dynamics of all that has surfaced that is without precedent, and more to do with simple human nature. The pattern that will prevail is how people have reacted to conflict of this significance before. Given the fact that people actually sitting down and talking is the only way out of this conflict, and given the fact that too many people are simply unprepared to do just that, events will likely be determined by a limited intervention from the military to restore order and security. The very role Prayuth did not want to play seems like it will be thrust upon him nonetheless. It is not the constitutional solution. But it is the most likely. And hopefully out of that, an incentive to sit down and reach a reasonable consensus will result from all the disparate parties. If that happens, let us hope there will not be an absence of enough reasonable minds.

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

You are pissing into the wind but what is most interesting is that you neither know it nor can you feel it.

The ammart split wide open over the weekend and did it publicly.

The lower courts don't care about PTP.

The criminal court today issued the arrest warrants the government had been seeking for several months. Treason. Insurrection. Sedition. And that's for openers.

The government now has the justification it needed to take decisive action. I expect the government will take that decisive action. The police Special Operations units will get no resistance or interference from the armed forces.

The question now is how soon.

Treason. Insurrection. Sedition. And that's for openers.

[Local Drunk]

The army can. go back and rethink your decision.

[srsv1238]

"There is not any provision in the charter that empowers judges with such responsibility."

Is there anywhere in the charter that says that they "can't" elect a temporary PM?

They're all frightened of the intimidation that would result..........the CC judges have a pair.....not many of the others have!

I don't think it works that way.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[3NUMBAS]

no but they can sure get rid of one fast when someone is pulling their strings

[h90]

The problem with all of this is that there is simply too much that has happened in the last seven months that is without precedent. And the result of that cumulatively is that the current situation is truly without precedent - in a variety of outstanding ways. The constitution is a reasonably all-inclusive document, but one suspects that this particular situation was not only not envisioned as possible but likely believed to be impossible. In political terms - it is the perfect storm. What happens when a dingy is unfortunate enough to find itself in the middle of a hurricane ? Refer to the marine manual ? More likely pray. And so it is here. The judge cited in this article is quite correct regarding Suthep's particular idea of an interim prime minister nominated through judges. But Suthep's initiative is not the only one around. His just happens to be the wildest. The one bandied about much more seriously is the nomination of a prime minister through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. We know that the election of February 2 didn't pan out. We know that a quorum was not reached in parliament. We know that on March 5, the caretaker administration passed the 30 day mark without convening a quorum-filled parliament. Since then, it's been open season for all sides of the political spectrum, with the army looking nervously on in the distance. The courts have tried to work through it, and have succeeded to the extent that their rulings were not obstructed, or delayed, or challenged. But that's a lot of qualifiers. The very people who are constitutionally empowered to interpret the constitution are the judges of the Constitutional Court. And yet their rulings have been challenged to a degree that takes the breath away. When you take away the highest judicial opinion, all that is left is anarchy. The Pheu Thai administration has not done well to propagate the notion that court rulings need to be routinely respected. In fact, they see a ruling as only a suggestion that can be overlooked or deliberately misinterpreted. And in fact Pheu Thai's insistence on a counter narrative - one that is belligerent and challenges the authority of the court - has done more to damage the judicial line of authority than even the UDD - because the UDD is not in government ( officially ).

So how will this play out ? The pattern of how this will play out has less to do with the dynamics of all that has surfaced that is without precedent, and more to do with simple human nature. The pattern that will prevail is how people have reacted to conflict of this significance before. Given the fact that people actually sitting down and talking is the only way out of this conflict, and given the fact that too many people are simply unprepared to do just that, events will likely be determined by a limited intervention from the military to restore order and security. The very role Prayuth did not want to play seems like it will be thrust upon him nonetheless. It is not the constitutional solution. But it is the most likely. And hopefully out of that, an incentive to sit down and reach a reasonable consensus will result from all the disparate parties. If that happens, let us hope there will not be an absence of enough reasonable minds.

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

You are pissing into the wind but what is most interesting is that you neither know it nor can you feel it.

The ammart split wide open over the weekend and did it publicly.

The lower courts don't care about PTP.

The criminal court today issued the arrest warrants the government had been seeking for several months. Treason. Insurrection. Sedition. And that's for openers.

The government now has the justification it needed to take decisive action. I expect the government will take that decisive action. The police Special Operations units will get no resistance or interference from the armed forces.

The question now is how soon.

who is the ammart?

Names please

[Publicus]

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

You are pissing into the wind but what is most interesting is that you neither know it nor can you feel it.

The ammart split wide open over the weekend and did it publicly.

The lower courts don't care about PTP.

The criminal court today issued the arrest warrants the government had been seeking for several months. Treason. Insurrection. Sedition. And that's for openers.

The government now has the justification it needed to take decisive action. I expect the government will take that decisive action. The police Special Operations units will get no resistance or interference from the armed forces.

The question now is how soon.

who is the ammart?

Names please

You've been with TV since 2004 and you have to ask who are the ammart?!?

A classic case of the numb nuts.

[The Deerhunter]

A judge who asked not to be named. Yeah right. But he spoke to the red journo. Then the rest of the article goes on as a promo for PTP quoting their various disgraced MP's. Frankly, till I see confirmation from more reliable sources, I don't believe this news article is true.

[The Deerhunter]

About time someone from the court made sense. Of course they can not pick a new PM. He knows this too bad Suthep can't seem to understand this. So were off to Final Battle # 209 with rent a space at government house given him a big head.

Who says this anonymous story is true Bob. You???

[The Deerhunter]

So the attack dogs have been left off their leashes again . . . expect more blood and violence over the next few days then . . .

If it is Suthep's blood the whole country bar a few nutters will be well-happy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Aside from a few fascist militarists here and there no one opposes this. No one in the establishment is speaking out against the government and the police SWAT and commando units acting now to take out Suthep and the PDRC.

Sudden and unanticipated statements that occurred swiftly over the weekend are to the opposite, that the government can act now to decapitate the insurrection. The army and the three court presidents have said Section 7 action now would violate royal power, be unconstitutional, undemocratic.

It's clear the government suddenly and now has the go-ahead to get the court orders on the arrest warrants it's been seeking for months on end. The government expects to secure all the arrest warrants from the court today.

The population wants a resolution and believes a traditional military coup is inevitable. Over the weekend however the government got the green light to act from almost all the central players, the military especially and in particular.

The government taking out Suthep and the PDRC will satisfy the population and decapitate the insurrection. No military coup, no actions by the courts against the government.

As is the case with the military, the RTP have highly trained, expert, disciplined SWAT and commando units - they are not your sleazy cop on the sidewalk extorting Baht 2000 from some hapless food vendor. These are highly specialized and serious units.

The end days have never looked more clear or better for the government as everyone appears to be cooperating with it. I think the government is going to go for it now, today, tonight or tomorrow at dawn.

Crystal Ball working overtime here. IMHO Chalerm has left it too late and the army, thank heavens still do not want to intervene. I'm damned if I know what will happen next. You are a brave man to be so sure. I can't help but think that no real authority would allow any group of special forces to do this raid. The risk of civilian bloodshed from it going wrong is just too great. If Chalerm was ever going to arrest them the time was months ago. Now is not the time to go heavy & try to arrest all these people. It could unleash a terrible response. Right now, no one wants to leave the arena, even when they are told they are dead! A bit like war games when the participant's won't lie down & not participate after their sensors have been lit up and they have been told they are are now "dead." After a few have been forced to accept their official demise the next stages might be more clear. In the meantime, such precipitate actions are seriously playing with fire.

[The Deerhunter]

The problem with all of this is that there is simply too much that has happened in the last seven months that is without precedent. And the result of that cumulatively is that the current situation is truly without precedent - in a variety of outstanding ways. The constitution is a reasonably all-inclusive document, but one suspects that this particular situation was not only not envisioned as possible but likely believed to be impossible. In political terms - it is the perfect storm. What happens when a dingy is unfortunate enough to find itself in the middle of a hurricane ? Refer to the marine manual ? More likely pray. And so it is here. The judge cited in this article is quite correct regarding Suthep's particular idea of an interim prime minister nominated through judges. But Suthep's initiative is not the only one around. His just happens to be the wildest. The one bandied about much more seriously is the nomination of a prime minister through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. We know that the election of February 2 didn't pan out. We know that a quorum was not reached in parliament. We know that on March 5, the caretaker administration passed the 30 day mark without convening a quorum-filled parliament. Since then, it's been open season for all sides of the political spectrum, with the army looking nervously on in the distance. The courts have tried to work through it, and have succeeded to the extent that their rulings were not obstructed, or delayed, or challenged. But that's a lot of qualifiers. The very people who are constitutionally empowered to interpret the constitution are the judges of the Constitutional Court. And yet their rulings have been challenged to a degree that takes the breath away. When you take away the highest judicial opinion, all that is left is anarchy. The Pheu Thai administration has not done well to propagate the notion that court rulings need to be routinely respected. In fact, they see a ruling as only a suggestion that can be overlooked or deliberately misinterpreted. And in fact Pheu Thai's insistence on a counter narrative - one that is belligerent and challenges the authority of the court - has done more to damage the judicial line of authority than even the UDD - because the UDD is not in government ( officially ).

So how will this play out ? The pattern of how this will play out has less to do with the dynamics of all that has surfaced that is without precedent, and more to do with simple human nature. The pattern that will prevail is how people have reacted to conflict of this significance before. Given the fact that people actually sitting down and talking is the only way out of this conflict, and given the fact that too many people are simply unprepared to do just that, events will likely be determined by a limited intervention from the military to restore order and security. The very role Prayuth did not want to play seems like it will be thrust upon him nonetheless. It is not the constitutional solution. But it is the most likely. And hopefully out of that, an incentive to sit down and reach a reasonable consensus will result from all the disparate parties. If that happens, let us hope there will not be an absence of enough reasonable minds.

Suddenly and decisively over the weekend the establishment lined up against Suthep and his PDRC.

The army said Section 7 action is not acceptable. The presiding judge cited in the OP says the judges presiding over the courts Suthep has called on to order a Section 7 action to thereby evict the government, to actually appoint a new PM, agree Suthep's wild idea is in fact a violation of royal power, that it is unconstitutional, undemocratic. (anti-democratic.)

What is the Senate saying? The Senate as has been pointed out has gone home, the unelected half of it probably to hide under the bed.

The government and the police face no opposition by the army and from all appearances have the army's passive support.

The government has the support of the courts below the CC, as I'd pointed out in a thread last week. Indeed, a court today will issue the arrest warrants against Suthep and the PDRC members that the government has been seeking for several months. The government says specialized police SWAT and commando units will execute the warrants.

It's only a matter of time before this (admirably tenacious) government orders up a hurricane. A short time. This week. Suthep can quit now or he and his PDRC gang can go down holding on to their dingy. The end game has never been closer than it is now.

Down to your usual standard in misinformation.

It's rather embarrassing for the acolytes when a judge specifically rejects Suthep's proposals. The judges are supposed to be 'ammart' and supporters of Suthep, PDRC, Abhisit, et al who are of course also 'ammart'. Blows a big hole in that stupid argument.

I agree with the judge. Some of Suthep's ideas are way OTT, but some are quite sensible. Saying that the government has support of courts 'below the CC" is just ridiculous in two ways: (1) it's not borne out by any facts - see below, and (2) the courts are not there to support any side.

The Admin Court is certainly not in PTP's pocket. Neither is the criminal court which refused Thaksin's lunch box and also ruled that CAPO had overstepped it's authority in attacking the protestors a few months ago.

As for Tarit's SWAT teams - this is just a repetition of Chalerm's bluster. He knows full well that actually attempting anything like that will lead to serious violence and is, in fact, disregarding what the criminal court has already declared - viz: you are not empowered to attack peaceful protestors.

What is needed is for PTP to give Suthep a way out and get him off the streets. No loss of face is important in Thailand and an arbitrator is needed. Someone who has not declared support for either side but who does have a decent profile. Prasarn would be a good choice IMO but am doubtful he would risk his career.

I was thinking over the weekend that if this was such a well organised Ammart administrative & Judicial coup that ther would not be all these loos ends lying around fot PTP polly's to exploit. I reckon it PROVES there is no conspiracy from te Ammart to do the admin & Judicial coup the red trolls are so keen on talking about. BTW speaking of Coups, so where are Friesien Boppe, Honest Quiet Bob, and several of the other red apologists lately? They have just vanished. Did Thaksin stop paying them?

[Publicus]

So the attack dogs have been left off their leashes again . . . expect more blood and violence over the next few days then . . .

If it is Suthep's blood the whole country bar a few nutters will be well-happy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Aside from a few fascist militarists here and there no one opposes this. No one in the establishment is speaking out against the government and the police SWAT and commando units acting now to take out Suthep and the PDRC.

Sudden and unanticipated statements that occurred swiftly over the weekend are to the opposite, that the government can act now to decapitate the insurrection. The army and the three court presidents have said Section 7 action now would violate royal power, be unconstitutional, undemocratic.

It's clear the government suddenly and now has the go-ahead to get the court orders on the arrest warrants it's been seeking for months on end. The government expects to secure all the arrest warrants from the court today.

The population wants a resolution and believes a traditional military coup is inevitable. Over the weekend however the government got the green light to act from almost all the central players, the military especially and in particular.

The government taking out Suthep and the PDRC will satisfy the population and decapitate the insurrection. No military coup, no actions by the courts against the government.

As is the case with the military, the RTP have highly trained, expert, disciplined SWAT and commando units - they are not your sleazy cop on the sidewalk extorting Baht 2000 from some hapless food vendor. These are highly specialized and serious units.

The end days have never looked more clear or better for the government as everyone appears to be cooperating with it. I think the government is going to go for it now, today, tonight or tomorrow at dawn.

Crystal Ball working overtime here. IMHO Chalerm has left it too late and the army, thank heavens still do not want to intervene. I'm damned if I know what will happen next. You are a brave man to be so sure. I can't help but think that no real authority would allow any group of special forces to do this raid. The risk of civilian bloodshed from it going wrong is just too great. If Chalerm was ever going to arrest them the time was months ago. Now is not the time to go heavy & try to arrest all these people. It could unleash a terrible response. Right now, no one wants to leave the arena, even when they are told they are dead! A bit like war games when the participant's won't lie down & not participate after their sensors have been lit up and they have been told they are are now "dead." After a few have been forced to accept their official demise the next stages might be more clear. In the meantime, such precipitate actions are seriously playing with fire.

Good to see you in a somewhat reflective and in a mite of an analytical mode at this point.

You raise good issues after being challenged to think, which is a fairly good thing for a PRDC type to do.

My observation at this point is that the military joint chiefs statement on Saturday and the presiding judges statement on Sunday did over the weekend put Suthep on the defensive along with his PDRC and also stopped a lot of TVF PDRC types here from believing or indulging to think the government was helpless or hopeless, in a downward death spiral after the partial judicial coup of the past week.

The fact is the military and the judges make clear to everyone that the elites are not unified as many had previously thought and that the government is in a stronger position than it appeared to be last week.

In fact today the government scared the bejeezus out of the other side to really get you guys to rethink the whole of the situation and circumstances. A couple of your guys took it pretty had on the chin today too because of some of their posts.

In short, today the campaign to invoke Section 7 was blown out of the blue sky.

[Mrgk]

I was thinking over the weekend that if this was such a well organised Ammart administrative & Judicial coup that ther would not be all these loos ends lying around fot PTP polly's to exploit. I reckon it PROVES there is no conspiracy from te Ammart to do the admin & Judicial coup the red trolls are so keen on talking about. BTW speaking of Coups, so where are Friesien Boppe, Honest Quiet Bob, and several of the other red apologists lately? They have just vanished. Did Thaksin stop paying them?

Who ever said that the Ammart were "well organized"? As far as I can tell the Thai elites (like most elites, natch) are a backbiting bunch, who have taken some time out from backstabbing one another to unite against an interloper (Thaksin). But it appears that even that common enemy is no longer sufficient to unite them behind a unified strategy.

For those who read between the lines though, (planes, toilets, roads, oh my!) it is also clear that there is a huge crack running down the centre of the Ammart.

As for Thaksin´s payments, they are still coming, 500B per post. Ca-ching!

[louse1953]

seizing Government House and calling for an "Article 7 PM" was designed to provoke the military to stage a coup

This is what every Thai I have spoken with is fully expecting to happen. It is historically the way these ordeals cycle in Thailand... the army imposes martial law and sorts out the mess made by the government.

Even though is isn't "politically correct" in the eyes of the rest of the world, it is probably the best solution for Thailand.

The problem is that there really is no one that anybody will agree upon to be the new prime minister. There is nobody capable and admired enough to step up to the plate for this. It seems that no side is going to give way in this fight, and these people need someone to tell them specifically what to do without any negotiation or options.

A coup is probably the best solution... as long as the army is on board with reform and willing to make it happen. Suspend the constitution (which will ultimately have to be redrafted anyway to cover the new reforms) and do some serious housecleaning under the provision of martial law.

Eradicate the Shin clan permanently, finishing what was started in 2006. Once the necessary reforms have been made and stability restored, a new election can be implemented.

Unfortunately, some blood is going to have to be spilled somewhere before the army will take action and this becomes a reality.

I have been saying this for years,unfortunately it seems the only way.They have to stay in for quite a while,so get some help from academics.

[Acharn]

,SNIP.

A coup is probably the best solution... as long as the army is on board with reform and willing to make it happen. Suspend the constitution (which will ultimately have to be redrafted anyway to cover the new reforms) and do some serious housecleaning under the provision of martial law.

What, you aren't happy with the situation we have now, which is the direct result of the last coup? The 2007 Constitution wasn't enough reform? The current situation isn't exactly what they planned? They haven't done exactly what they did in 2010? You want another chance to re-write the constitution so it gives you everything and other people nothing? You want to keep doing the same thing over and over? Good luck with that.

Eradicate the Shin clan permanently, finishing what was started in 2006. Once the necessary reforms have been made and stability restored, a new election can be implemented.

Unfortunately, some blood is going to have to be spilled somewhere before the army will take action and this becomes a reality.

Eradicate? Like on October 6, 1976? Many of the people who were involved in that are involved in this iteration, or their children are. I feel pretty sure the idea hasn't occurred to you that some of the blood spilled might be yours or might belong to somebody you have good feelings toward.

Look, the problem with these unspecified "reforms" is the question of what they are going to take away from people. Most of this turmoil is about getting into an advantageous position for when something happens. A lot of people are afraid that if they are not in control when something happens they are going to lose position, honors, and riches if they don't remain in control. but there are a whole lot of other people who believe they will gain a lot of position, honor, and riches if they are on the other side when something happens. Not only the Shinawattra clan. A lot of powerful people. So "eradicating" the Shinawattras isn't going to end the turmoil.

The only way out is through new elections, but Suthep and the other PDRC "leaders" won't allow that, and neither will Mark and the increasingly irrelevant Democrats. And, by the way, I'm only a farang, but I've been here a long time and I read a lot, and this situation is nothing like the "traditional" coups we used to have every four years or so. I think the last one of those we had was the National Peace Keeping Council, back in 1991, when they threw out Chatchai Choonhavan's government (the well-named Buffet Cabinet -- you think Thaksin was corrupt? He was a piker in comparison). They gave us Suchinda, Remember him? I think he's still on the board of directors of Bangkok Bank and several other huge corporations.

Incidentally, your use of "eradicate" sends chills down my spine. That's the solution Pol Pot had for Cambodia.

[Publicus]

seizing Government House and calling for an "Article 7 PM" was designed to provoke the military to stage a coup

This is what every Thai I have spoken with is fully expecting to happen. It is historically the way these ordeals cycle in Thailand... the army imposes martial law and sorts out the mess made by the government.

Even though is isn't "politically correct" in the eyes of the rest of the world, it is probably the best solution for Thailand.

The problem is that there really is no one that anybody will agree upon to be the new prime minister. There is nobody capable and admired enough to step up to the plate for this. It seems that no side is going to give way in this fight, and these people need someone to tell them specifically what to do without any negotiation or options.

A coup is probably the best solution... as long as the army is on board with reform and willing to make it happen. Suspend the constitution (which will ultimately have to be redrafted anyway to cover the new reforms) and do some serious housecleaning under the provision of martial law.

Eradicate the Shin clan permanently, finishing what was started in 2006. Once the necessary reforms have been made and stability restored, a new election can be implemented.

Unfortunately, some blood is going to have to be spilled somewhere before the army will take action and this becomes a reality.

Military justice is to justice as military music is to music.

No doubt your classical music collection is totally <deleted>*ked up.

[Publicus]

,SNIP.

A coup is probably the best solution... as long as the army is on board with reform and willing to make it happen. Suspend the constitution (which will ultimately have to be redrafted anyway to cover the new reforms) and do some serious housecleaning under the provision of martial law.

What, you aren't happy with the situation we have now, which is the direct result of the last coup? The 2007 Constitution wasn't enough reform? The current situation isn't exactly what they planned? They haven't done exactly what they did in 2010? You want another chance to re-write the constitution so it gives you everything and other people nothing? You want to keep doing the same thing over and over? Good luck with that.

Eradicate the Shin clan permanently, finishing what was started in 2006. Once the necessary reforms have been made and stability restored, a new election can be implemented.

Unfortunately, some blood is going to have to be spilled somewhere before the army will take action and this becomes a reality.

Eradicate? Like on October 6, 1976? Many of the people who were involved in that are involved in this iteration, or their children are. I feel pretty sure the idea hasn't occurred to you that some of the blood spilled might be yours or might belong to somebody you have good feelings toward.

Look, the problem with these unspecified "reforms" is the question of what they are going to take away from people. Most of this turmoil is about getting into an advantageous position for when something happens. A lot of people are afraid that if they are not in control when something happens they are going to lose position, honors, and riches if they don't remain in control. but there are a whole lot of other people who believe they will gain a lot of position, honor, and riches if they are on the other side when something happens. Not only the Shinawattra clan. A lot of powerful people. So "eradicating" the Shinawattras isn't going to end the turmoil.

The only way out is through new elections, but Suthep and the other PDRC "leaders" won't allow that, and neither will Mark and the increasingly irrelevant Democrats. And, by the way, I'm only a farang, but I've been here a long time and I read a lot, and this situation is nothing like the "traditional" coups we used to have every four years or so. I think the last one of those we had was the National Peace Keeping Council, back in 1991, when they threw out Chatchai Choonhavan's government (the well-named Buffet Cabinet -- you think Thaksin was corrupt? He was a piker in comparison). They gave us Suchinda, Remember him? I think he's still on the board of directors of Bangkok Bank and several other huge corporations.

Incidentally, your use of "eradicate" sends chills down my spine. That's the solution Pol Pot had for Cambodia.

Most apparent in all of this feudalist caused commotion is the open and shameless revelation by so many fahlang that they are fascist militarists, and hard core fascists besides.

I arrived to stay a while in Thailand in 1998 but even given the 2006 coup I hadn't any remote clue of what seems to me now to be the enormous number of hawk fascist militarists among fahlang here.

All these people that for months on end have been goose stepping their way through the threads on a daily basis, full of passion, absolute certainty, brazen and brash about it.

Your comment? If you care to....

[Asiantravel]

,SNIP.

A coup is probably the best solution... as long as the army is on board with reform and willing to make it happen. Suspend the constitution (which will ultimately have to be redrafted anyway to cover the new reforms) and do some serious housecleaning under the provision of martial law.

What, you aren't happy with the situation we have now, which is the direct result of the last coup? The 2007 Constitution wasn't enough reform? The current situation isn't exactly what they planned? They haven't done exactly what they did in 2010? You want another chance to re-write the constitution so it gives you everything and other people nothing? You want to keep doing the same thing over and over? Good luck with that.

Eradicate the Shin clan permanently, finishing what was started in 2006. Once the necessary reforms have been made and stability restored, a new election can be implemented.

Unfortunately, some blood is going to have to be spilled somewhere before the army will take action and this becomes a reality.

Eradicate? Like on October 6, 1976? Many of the people who were involved in that are involved in this iteration, or their children are. I feel pretty sure the idea hasn't occurred to you that some of the blood spilled might be yours or might belong to somebody you have good feelings toward.

Look, the problem with these unspecified "reforms" is the question of what they are going to take away from people. Most of this turmoil is about getting into an advantageous position for when something happens. A lot of people are afraid that if they are not in control when something happens they are going to lose position, honors, and riches if they don't remain in control. but there are a whole lot of other people who believe they will gain a lot of position, honor, and riches if they are on the other side when something happens. Not only the Shinawattra clan. A lot of powerful people. So "eradicating" the Shinawattras isn't going to end the turmoil.

The only way out is through new elections, but Suthep and the other PDRC "leaders" won't allow that, and neither will Mark and the increasingly irrelevant Democrats. And, by the way, I'm only a farang, but I've been here a long time and I read a lot, and this situation is nothing like the "traditional" coups we used to have every four years or so. I think the last one of those we had was the National Peace Keeping Council, back in 1991, when they threw out Chatchai Choonhavan's government (the well-named Buffet Cabinet -- you think Thaksin was corrupt? He was a piker in comparison). They gave us Suchinda, Remember him? I think he's still on the board of directors of Bangkok Bank and several other huge corporations.

Incidentally, your use of "eradicate" sends chills down my spine. That's the solution Pol Pot had for Cambodia.

Most apparent in all of this feudalist caused commotion is the open and shameless revelation by so many fahlang that they are fascist militarists, and hard core fascists besides.

I arrived to stay a while in Thailand in 1998 but even given the 2006 coup I hadn't any remote clue of what seems to me now to be the enormous number of hawk fascist militarists among fahlang here.

All these people that for months on end have been goose stepping their way through the threads on a daily basis, full of passion, absolute certainty, brazen and brash about it.

Your comment? If you care to....

Publicus I am equally astonished by the same thing and constantly wonder why foreigners think this way?

They perpetually cheerlead and condone a " leader " whose party includes a mob of thugs who are prepared to carry out the most hideous violence on their fellow Thais for no real reason whatsoever, and day in day out actively encourage the sidestepping of normal democratic principles and standards that I'm sure would horrify them if someone tried to implement similar conditions in their own countries.

99% of them would only be here on some kind of visa and yet they have such little regard for the actual citizens of this country and come up with such claptrap as " dictatorship by the majority ".

If hard-working rural people who, for whatever reason decide not once but repeatedly to choose a particular person at the ballot box who they want to lead them, who are we foreigners to say otherwise?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Fat Haggis]

Because as foreigners we like to think we know better, when the bottom line is the opposite .

[Tatsujin]

Aside from a few fascist militarists here and there no one opposes this. No one in the establishment is speaking out against the government and the police SWAT and commando units acting now to take out Suthep and the PDRC.

Sudden and unanticipated statements that occurred swiftly over the weekend are to the opposite, that the government can act now to decapitate the insurrection. The army and the three court presidents have said Section 7 action now would violate royal power, be unconstitutional, undemocratic.

It's clear the government suddenly and now has the go-ahead to get the court orders on the arrest warrants it's been seeking for months on end. The government expects to secure all the arrest warrants from the court today.

The population wants a resolution and believes a traditional military coup is inevitable. Over the weekend however the government got the green light to act from almost all the central players, the military especially and in particular.

The government taking out Suthep and the PDRC will satisfy the population and decapitate the insurrection. No military coup, no actions by the courts against the government.

As is the case with the military, the RTP have highly trained, expert, disciplined SWAT and commando units - they are not your sleazy cop on the sidewalk extorting Baht 2000 from some hapless food vendor. These are highly specialized and serious units.

The end days have never looked more clear or better for the government as everyone appears to be cooperating with it. I think the government is going to go for it now, today, tonight or tomorrow at dawn.

Crystal Ball working overtime here. IMHO Chalerm has left it too late and the army, thank heavens still do not want to intervene. I'm damned if I know what will happen next. You are a brave man to be so sure. I can't help but think that no real authority would allow any group of special forces to do this raid. The risk of civilian bloodshed from it going wrong is just too great. If Chalerm was ever going to arrest them the time was months ago. Now is not the time to go heavy & try to arrest all these people. It could unleash a terrible response. Right now, no one wants to leave the arena, even when they are told they are dead! A bit like war games when the participant's won't lie down & not participate after their sensors have been lit up and they have been told they are are now "dead." After a few have been forced to accept their official demise the next stages might be more clear. In the meantime, such precipitate actions are seriously playing with fire.

Good to see you in a somewhat reflective and in a mite of an analytical mode at this point.

You raise good issues after being challenged to think, which is a fairly good thing for a PRDC type to do.

My observation at this point is that the military joint chiefs statement on Saturday and the presiding judges statement on Sunday did over the weekend put Suthep on the defensive along with his PDRC and also stopped a lot of TVF PDRC types here from believing or indulging to think the government was helpless or hopeless, in a downward death spiral after the partial judicial coup of the past week.

The fact is the military and the judges make clear to everyone that the elites are not unified as many had previously thought and that the government is in a stronger position than it appeared to be last week.

In fact today the government scared the bejeezus out of the other side to really get you guys to rethink the whole of the situation and circumstances. A couple of your guys took it pretty had on the chin today too because of some of their posts.

In short, today the campaign to invoke Section 7 was blown out of the blue sky.

Nice analysis, but completely wrong as you will see over the next few days, weeks, months.

Section 7 most certainly is NOT off the table and the strong likelihood is that the entire PT cabinet will be removed and PT banned from politics.

[srsv1238]

Aside from a few fascist militarists here and there no one opposes this. No one in the establishment is speaking out against the government and the police SWAT and commando units acting now to take out Suthep and the PDRC.

Sudden and unanticipated statements that occurred swiftly over the weekend are to the opposite, that the government can act now to decapitate the insurrection. The army and the three court presidents have said Section 7 action now would violate royal power, be unconstitutional, undemocratic.

It's clear the government suddenly and now has the go-ahead to get the court orders on the arrest warrants it's been seeking for months on end. The government expects to secure all the arrest warrants from the court today.

The population wants a resolution and believes a traditional military coup is inevitable. Over the weekend however the government got the green light to act from almost all the central players, the military especially and in particular.

The government taking out Suthep and the PDRC will satisfy the population and decapitate the insurrection. No military coup, no actions by the courts against the government.

As is the case with the military, the RTP have highly trained, expert, disciplined SWAT and commando units - they are not your sleazy cop on the sidewalk extorting Baht 2000 from some hapless food vendor. These are highly specialized and serious units.

The end days have never looked more clear or better for the government as everyone appears to be cooperating with it. I think the government is going to go for it now, today, tonight or tomorrow at dawn.

Crystal Ball working overtime here. IMHO Chalerm has left it too late and the army, thank heavens still do not want to intervene. I'm damned if I know what will happen next. You are a brave man to be so sure. I can't help but think that no real authority would allow any group of special forces to do this raid. The risk of civilian bloodshed from it going wrong is just too great. If Chalerm was ever going to arrest them the time was months ago. Now is not the time to go heavy & try to arrest all these people. It could unleash a terrible response. Right now, no one wants to leave the arena, even when they are told they are dead! A bit like war games when the participant's won't lie down & not participate after their sensors have been lit up and they have been told they are are now "dead." After a few have been forced to accept their official demise the next stages might be more clear. In the meantime, such precipitate actions are seriously playing with fire.

Good to see you in a somewhat reflective and in a mite of an analytical mode at this point.

You raise good issues after being challenged to think, which is a fairly good thing for a PRDC type to do.

My observation at this point is that the military joint chiefs statement on Saturday and the presiding judges statement on Sunday did over the weekend put Suthep on the defensive along with his PDRC and also stopped a lot of TVF PDRC types here from believing or indulging to think the government was helpless or hopeless, in a downward death spiral after the partial judicial coup of the past week.

The fact is the military and the judges make clear to everyone that the elites are not unified as many had previously thought and that the government is in a stronger position than it appeared to be last week.

In fact today the government scared the bejeezus out of the other side to really get you guys to rethink the whole of the situation and circumstances. A couple of your guys took it pretty had on the chin today too because of some of their posts.

In short, today the campaign to invoke Section 7 was blown out of the blue sky.

Nice analysis, but completely wrong as you will see over the next few days, weeks, months.

Section 7 most certainly is NOT off the table and the strong likelihood is that the entire PT cabinet will be removed and PT banned from politics.

o you want a civil war? Because that's how you get a civil war.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Tatsujin]

Good to see you in a somewhat reflective and in a mite of an analytical mode at this point.

You raise good issues after being challenged to think, which is a fairly good thing for a PRDC type to do.

My observation at this point is that the military joint chiefs statement on Saturday and the presiding judges statement on Sunday did over the weekend put Suthep on the defensive along with his PDRC and also stopped a lot of TVF PDRC types here from believing or indulging to think the government was helpless or hopeless, in a downward death spiral after the partial judicial coup of the past week.

The fact is the military and the judges make clear to everyone that the elites are not unified as many had previously thought and that the government is in a stronger position than it appeared to be last week.

In fact today the government scared the bejeezus out of the other side to really get you guys to rethink the whole of the situation and circumstances. A couple of your guys took it pretty had on the chin today too because of some of their posts.

In short, today the campaign to invoke Section 7 was blown out of the blue sky.

Nice analysis, but completely wrong as you will see over the next few days, weeks, months.

Section 7 most certainly is NOT off the table and the strong likelihood is that the entire PT cabinet will be removed and PT banned from politics.

o you want a civil war? Because that's how you get a civil war.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Don't put words in my mouth . . . I never mentioned civil war nor do I condone or want one. Grow up.

Go read the Constitution . . . I know its hard cos it has difficult things in it like "words" . . . but as it stands right now, PT have broken the law and they will pay the price for it at some point.

Aside from all the impeachments etc, there is no acting, caretaker (or any other catchphrase word you care to use) Prime Minister currently. Go read Section 171 and 172 (and other related sections). The House of Representatives are the people who nominate/elect the PM. THERE IS NO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THERE ARE NO MINISTERS. THEY DISSOLVED PARLIAMENT. There's your "power vacuum". Therefore it defaults to the Senate electing the PM. Simple.

[Publicus]

Good to see you in a somewhat reflective and in a mite of an analytical mode at this point.

You raise good issues after being challenged to think, which is a fairly good thing for a PRDC type to do.

My observation at this point is that the military joint chiefs statement on Saturday and the presiding judges statement on Sunday did over the weekend put Suthep on the defensive along with his PDRC and also stopped a lot of TVF PDRC types here from believing or indulging to think the government was helpless or hopeless, in a downward death spiral after the partial judicial coup of the past week.

The fact is the military and the judges make clear to everyone that the elites are not unified as many had previously thought and that the government is in a stronger position than it appeared to be last week.

In fact today the government scared the bejeezus out of the other side to really get you guys to rethink the whole of the situation and circumstances. A couple of your guys took it pretty had on the chin today too because of some of their posts.

In short, today the campaign to invoke Section 7 was blown out of the blue sky.

Nice analysis, but completely wrong as you will see over the next few days, weeks, months.

Section 7 most certainly is NOT off the table and the strong likelihood is that the entire PT cabinet will be removed and PT banned from politics.

o you want a civil war? Because that's how you get a civil war.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Don't put words in my mouth . . . I never mentioned civil war nor do I condone or want one. Grow up.

Go read the Constitution . . . I know its hard cos it has difficult things in it like "words" . . . but as it stands right now, PT have broken the law and they will pay the price for it at some point.

Aside from all the impeachments etc, there is no acting, caretaker (or any other catchphrase word you care to use) Prime Minister currently. Go read Section 171 and 172 (and other related sections). The House of Representatives are the people who nominate/elect the PM. THERE IS NO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THERE ARE NO MINISTERS. THEY DISSOLVED PARLIAMENT. There's your "power vacuum". Therefore it defaults to the Senate electing the PM. Simple.

"The PDRC will now rely on violence, otherwise it will lose. It will never win."

Chalerm drives you PDRC types crazy so I wanted to quote him to draw all of you to this thread in a wild-eyed stampede to continue your ongoing rants and rages against him.

Chalerm is not my hero, not by a long shot, but he's right. Same as Chalerm was right in early March about the government being able to continue in office in accordance with Article 181 of the 2007 martial law military coup constitution and also consistent with Article 127 and Article 68, respectively.

Time has always been on the side of the government, and time continues to be on the side of the government. I don't have the crystal ball you apparently have, but I do know that and time has indeed been on the government's side. Over time, how many crystal balls have you PDRC types used then discarded?

Suthep, the PDRC, the eunuch Abhisit and the vanishing DP, the ammart, you PDRC people here at TVF would save yourself and tens of millions of others a huge headache by realizing and recognizing the fact - time always has been and continues to be on the side of the government and of Thai democracy.

Time continues to work against you and for Thai democracy.