Will an interim Thai prime minister spark civil strife?

[ginjag]

Oh yea the UK is just so superior a democracy, aparently they don't think the electoral system here is that bad because they are supporting elections.. what are these 'moves' that the PT 'made' that are just so horrendous? The opposition here IS given airtime, and MOST of the tv stations here 7,3, TNN etc. ARE OWNED BY THE ESTABLISHMENT that is military and big money, so cut the crap that the TV here is so pro-phua thai.. AND they have their own cable stations like ASTV and bluesky, media domination DOES NOT WORK in the age of internet.

is this a new illegal thing that Yingluck did, being abroad during 'debates' i'm surprised the NaCC hasn't charged her with that one..

NO party in the UK would even dare to try the moves that PTP have made--impossible.

opposition in the UK would be given equal air time on radio and TV.

Question time is a weekly event to highlight any wrongs that a said government would try to pass a bill.

Question time is allowed to enable the said PM to answer ANY points brought up--------Has any of my points ever been conducted in this undemocratic government.

Yingluck has been abroad on most important debates--I wonder why she would miss them--other than being totally out of depth.

Here are your wrongs amongst other things to be yet brought into court. Then according to you they are bent ?? this is the same as being afraid of guilt ??

Dear Mr denial. Here question time, parliament fair debates ??? Yingluck has no political clout for any interviews-questions. You believe the PTP did nothing wrong ??? being in denial is sick. Do not get onto me because of the lousy ex government.

[Elmer Gantry]

Stradavarius37, you must really love Thaksin. You seem to give him so much credits. You have various types of citizens with various educational levels and experiences. They can analyze the political matter and make the decisions for themselves.

Excuse me

The majority of Thailand love Thaksin, thats what a vote proves, 1vote 1 person. Seems like the yellows dont like this, and want to keep the majority down, scared they might get more education and wealth.

From a red standpoint 1 vote,1 person = 1000baht each.

[ginjag]

Gin jag if your so fed up with the the way things are run here then stand for parliament

Same with you scamper the champion of constitutions become a lawyer and take all your facts and figures to the senate speaker insure he would be indebted as to your overwhelming knowledge of said constitution this you're obviously an SME and should be in an advisary role for sure

Hey wish I could--for a start I was never trained to get my fingers in the till, or defy the law, or defy the oath I swore to.

I would certainly love the travel Yingluck has made over the 3 years but my conscience would not aloe me to do it - I would give farrangs 1 year visa -combine the retirement and 0 visa no reporting and actually pay 40,000 baht for that privilege ---all others 30 days tourist visits limited to 2 then a year visa or NOWT

I would find private companies to run railways-Buses-airlines-and funding from other means--not borrowing 2 trillion+ over 50 years.

All monies income-out, to be recorded audited. Police force to be re trained, serve the public and protect and fines to be paid to treasury. The army to be trimmed to 200 top people rather than 2000, and voluntary conscripts rather than the silly lucky dip

Just a start, Top courts to be sieved --and law and order dealt with fairly--rich and poor alike. Heavy punishment for corruption whoever. No red or other villages freedom to all.

[Elmer Gantry]

Yellows living in denial!

Number 1 Red living in Dubai or where ever the fancy takes him,but not Thailand.

[Elmer Gantry]

The opposition of any country is going to use grouse terms to refer to the ruling party,

you claim the Yingluck government 'has broken so many laws' then why was she only charged with 'deriliction of duty' or for transfering a single person to another post, AND THIS with the courts heavely biased against the PT party(as every international source mentions everytime they report on the situation here)

as a matter of fact the Yingluck government never did ANYTHING illegal, they know that there is this constant witchhunt by the courts to sack them with anything the court can make an issue of, so Yingluck in her 2 years was very careful to dot the is and cross the ts, but the courts STILL found some bogus crap to charge her with.

'diabolical governing' whatever

The last paragraph pretty much sums it up !

An election on july 20 is the way to go!

Stop shutting the people out.Its gone on long enough and Thailand and it's people are now in tis state limbo and the frustration and violence will continue as nobody on either side will except any decision that goes against them.

YOUR government should NOT be electable. It has gravely broken so many laws during it's 3 years. and you are advocating elections are the answer---they are but should not include PTP or a large section of them.

There is only 1 side that is guilty of diabolical governing, PTP. all the rest is the result of this. Why not clamp up--or tell the truth.

This post of mine is not a lie. your post is avoiding the cause of the problem as always.

Holly Moses I just vomited on my keyboard,excuse me bretheren I will be back in a moment.

[Elmer Gantry]

Do people really have to answer this? Of course it will. When you want to use unconstitutional means to overthrow an elected government it is going to cause convict.

When you have a democratically elected government that governs UNDEMOCRATICALLY, it will cause conflict.

When a democtatically elected parliament passes a law in the UK, will the opposition party, if they not agree with it bring the country to the verge of a civil war? No they won't. The same can be said of any European country, then why is it okay in Thailand for people with a hidden political agenda to use the passing of a law to bring the country to its knees? Any political party that have a majority in parliament have the constitutional right to pass laws, people opposing it may demostrate but they may not break the law. Here in is my problem with the PDRC, they had the right to demonstrate, but they don't have the right to break the law and neither do they have the right to prevent people from voting, neither do they have the right to assualt and kill people including the police, neither do they have the right to occupy government buildings. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Now turn the coin over and repost.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Do people really have to answer this? Of course it will. When you want to use unconstitutional means to overthrow an elected government it is going to cause convict.

When you have a democratically elected government that governs UNDEMOCRATICALLY, it will cause conflict.

Isn't that always the complaint of the minority party in government? That is why a democratic government requires an efficient check and balance system to assure a democratic process. Isn't it better to stage political conflicts on the floor of the House and the Courts than brutality in the streets of Bangkok if you want to preserve the democratic process? A democracy is naturally a messy business, full of open and honest (even dishonest) disagreements with a participatory public operating within the womb of freedom of speech as the ultimate decisionmakers.

"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill, 1947.

[pkspeaker]

The PTP did some things wrong, every opposition thinks the ruling party horrendously did something wrong, point is Yingluck did nothing illegal, politics like house debates, air-time, etc is just standard politics..

non of this justifies seizure of power, when you have these political crises in any country- house dissolved, new election set; then let the courts deal with whatever was improper procedure.

Oh yea the UK is just so superior a democracy, aparently they don't think the electoral system here is that bad because they are supporting elections.. what are these 'moves' that the PT 'made' that are just so horrendous? The opposition here IS given airtime, and MOST of the tv stations here 7,3, TNN etc. ARE OWNED BY THE ESTABLISHMENT that is military and big money, so cut the crap that the TV here is so pro-phua thai.. AND they have their own cable stations like ASTV and bluesky, media domination DOES NOT WORK in the age of internet.

is this a new illegal thing that Yingluck did, being abroad during 'debates' i'm surprised the NaCC hasn't charged her with that one..

NO party in the UK would even dare to try the moves that PTP have made--impossible.

opposition in the UK would be given equal air time on radio and TV.

Question time is a weekly event to highlight any wrongs that a said government would try to pass a bill.

Question time is allowed to enable the said PM to answer ANY points brought up--------Has any of my points ever been conducted in this undemocratic government.

Yingluck has been abroad on most important debates--I wonder why she would miss them--other than being totally out of depth.

Here are your wrongs amongst other things to be yet brought into court. Then according to you they are bent ?? this is the same as being afraid of guilt ??

Dear Mr denial. Here question time, parliament fair debates ??? Yingluck has no political clout for any interviews-questions. You believe the PTP did nothing wrong ??? being in denial is sick. Do not get onto me because of the lousy ex government.

Edited May 15, 2014 by pkspeaker

[Just1Voice]

Stradavarius37, you must really love Thaksin. You seem to give him so much credits. You have various types of citizens with various educational levels and experiences. They can analyze the political matter and make the decisions for themselves.

Excuse me

The majority of Thailand love Thaksin, thats what a vote proves, 1vote 1 person. Seems like the yellows dont like this, and want to keep the majority down, scared they might get more education and wealth.

From a red standpoint 1 vote,1 person = 1000baht each.

Gee, then why is it that Korn, in an interview, when asked about vote buying, admitted the Dems spent more on vote buying than PTP, and STILL lost, and concluded that vote buying has no effect on the outcome of the vote?

FACT: Vote buying has been going on since democracy was introduced to Thailand, and ALL parties engage in it. But, hey, don't let actual facts get in the way of a good rant.

[ginjag]

The last paragraph pretty much sums it up !

An election on july 20 is the way to go!

Stop shutting the people out.Its gone on long enough and Thailand and it's people are now in tis state limbo and the frustration and violence will continue as nobody on either side will except any decision that goes against them.

YOUR government should NOT be electable. It has gravely broken so many laws during it's 3 years. and you are advocating elections are the answer---they are but should not include PTP or a large section of them.

There is only 1 side that is guilty of diabolical governing, PTP. all the rest is the result of this. Why not clamp up--or tell the truth.

This post of mine is not a lie. your post is avoiding the cause of the problem as always.

The Lord forgiveth Mango Bob,he knoweth not what he say,Amen

Sorry Bob

[fab4]

"1vote 1 person"

That's the way it generally works, unless your a PTP MP voting on a 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure bill.

Ahem, there wasn't a vote on the 2.2 Trillion Baht Infrastructure Bill. It was ruled unconstitutional - part of the checks and balances, remember.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695123-former-pheu-thai-mp-denies-voting-several-times-on-loan-bill/

I'm sorry I was wrong. I thought that the CC had ruled the bill unconstitutional before they had even got to the vote stage.

[mikemac]

"1vote 1 person"

That's the way it generally works, unless your a PTP MP voting on a 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure bill.

Ahem, there wasn't a vote on the 2.2 Trillion Baht Infrastructure Bill. It was ruled unconstitutional - part of the checks and balances, remember.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695123-former-pheu-thai-mp-denies-voting-several-times-on-loan-bill/

I'm sorry I was wrong. I thought that the CC had ruled the bill unconstitutional before they had even got to the vote stage.

Are you "sorry you were wrong", or "sorry you were wrong" ? Either way, forget about it. We are used to it.

[newcomer71]

Another thread morphed in Yellow/dems vs. Reds/PTP thread...

Any occasion is good for attack the other side for all of you extremist posters.

Given the fact some Thai could be more passionate (or motivated) than foreigners living in Thailand (or just like Thailand), no wonder that this country is in such a tense situation and on the brink of a civil war.

There should be no sides really at this point. Emphasis should be the clearing up of the land fill government-priority.

To me all this yellow red is BS. It is about a democratically elected government, overstepping the norm Big Time, making it undemocratic, so it has to go.

Never mind what colour comes along in the aftermath as long as it is within the law and is transparent. It is easy really.

All this slagging off of government criticism is plain DENIAL. it does not make that poster a Suthep Dems, yellow. BUT the clan of pro gov posters will not admit to anything. It is all everyone other than them that is wrong-- So what is wrong with constructive criticism against lousy governing ???

I partially agree with you Ginjag... The problem in this country is the extreme bi-polarism and the total denial that other side can be sometimes right and have some good idea to be developed. One side always see itself as right and the other side is totally wrong and evil. That will lead nowhere, or to a civil war. Sadly.

[Boo]

A post attacking another has been removed & a reply to it.

You are entitled to disagree & to dislike those opinions, you are not entitled to attack or insult each other because of it.

Keep it civil or suspensions will be issued

Thanks

Boo

[The stuttering parrot]

Elmer Gantry!

I like your style!

Holly Moses I just vomited on my keyboard!

That was a cracker!!

[ginjag]

Elmer Gantry!

I like your style!

Holly Moses I just vomited on my keyboard!

That was a cracker!!

I think he vomited because it may have been one of your mates posts, look again, your mate posted at the top of my post---did you think he was answering me __Look again.

[smutcakes]

Its about time an interim person was elected to defuse the situation, but can they find someone: a) willing to do it anyone which all parties can accept c) can they give that person the mandate to make the necessary reforms of all sectors (No- the police and army are untouchable) d) who will write the reforms? e) if a referendum does not pass them what happens? etc etc

I dont believe Suthep is in it for proper reform, but he or one of his associates should at least lay out a proper road map for consideration. I have no doubt if the road map was fair, equitable and even handed then it would garner huge support from all sectors.

The problem we have now is that every road map is so aligned to what Suthep is saying, with so little detail, there is obviously massive distrust among those who dislike or dont trust him.

I think the army just about have the ability to carry out a coup without things going completely wrong, but God knows what they can do after they take power, unless they can find a person who fits the a,b,c d and e above.

[Fat Haggis]

Ginjag gets my vote !!!!

[jennywren]

Got to be Chuwit!!!

He looks neutral and appears to hate everybody equally.

Reading that he wiped the floor with Senator Paiboon last night on TV.

Hilight for me in the translation was Paiboon: I stand by article 7 Chuwit: What about the other 300?

[JAG]

Whether there will be large scale trouble, throughout the country, immediately an appointed government is put in place is I think doubtful. I suspect that most Thais are resigned to the inevitability of waking up one morning to find the oleaginous (lovely word that) face of Abhisit installed as Prime Minister.

I do expect that opposition will mount if the appointed government doesn't move quickly to hold a general election. I particularly expect a reaction if attempts are made to either purge political parties or their leaders, or if any attempt is made to disenfranchise Pheu Thai supporting areas. (Probably the only"reform" which is really on the agenda).

The "reds" are fully aware what Abhisit, Suthep and company are prepared to do to put down opposition, so they will be careful. That doesn't mean that they will be cowed.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RubbaJohnny]

Do people really have to answer this? Of course it will. When you want to use unconstitutional means to overthrow an elected government it is going to cause convict.

Oh the irony , the convict and the accused roaming the governemnet coplexes,on the runs issued passport ,addressing senate while the cops "scour" the streets is sure to cause

CONFLICT

It is hard to believe this charade will lead to a responsible inclusive outcome respecting diversity and each region,level and walk of life.

Like an accident victim,rest recovery ,healing and good diet ,medicine a calm period to recuperate,grive for the dead and injuredand learn the lessons rather than disturbance.So many dead already and for what good?

All these fols who proclaim there love could begin by donating blood to the red cross appeal, clear the steerts of riots and rubbish and return the Land of Smiles to a place the foreigner will want to help visit and invest and Thais from N S E and West will feel at home with there compatriots

Peace and Love,In every part of the realm ther eis lip service to compassion and ahimsa the eightfold path of Buddhism with its tolerance for others

Edited May 15, 2014 by RubbaJohnny

[srsv1238]

Have I been to a red village lately ? Yes

Have I been to a yellow village lately ? Yes

A real big one called bangkok!

Then please compare or contrast the two based on your vast experiences in both?

Hey Parrot---yellow villages do not exist-they went out with the ark.

non red villages are just normal--no one knows who votes for who.

RED villages are controlled by the village head man, they are called --"this is a red village" any non red there never shows it. they cannot or they would be classed as castoffs.

Hello, can you elaborate? People can still freely vote in these villages, no? Votes are still anonymous, correct?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[srsv1238]

"1vote 1 person"

That's the way it generally works, unless your a PTP MP voting on a 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure bill.

Ahem, there wasn't a vote on the 2.2 Trillion Baht Infrastructure Bill. It was ruled unconstitutional - part of the checks and balances, remember.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695123-former-pheu-thai-mp-denies-voting-several-times-on-loan-bill/

I'm sorry I was wrong. I thought that the CC had ruled the bill unconstitutional before they had even got to the vote stage.

The bill died because one MP was video taped allegedly voting a few times? That was it?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[srsv1238]

"1vote 1 person"

That's the way it generally works, unless your a PTP MP voting on a 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure bill.

Ahem, there wasn't a vote on the 2.2 Trillion Baht Infrastructure Bill. It was ruled unconstitutional - part of the checks and balances, remember.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695123-former-pheu-thai-mp-denies-voting-several-times-on-loan-bill/

I'm sorry I was wrong. I thought that the CC had ruled the bill unconstitutional before they had even got to the vote stage.

The bill died because one MP was video taped allegedly voting a few times? That was it?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[srsv1238]

Do people really have to answer this? Of course it will. When you want to use unconstitutional means to overthrow an elected government it is going to cause convict.

When you have a democratically elected government that governs UNDEMOCRATICALLY, it will cause conflict.

When a democtatically elected parliament passes a law in the UK, will the opposition party, if they not agree with it bring the country to the verge of a civil war? No they won't. The same can be said of any European country, then why is it okay in Thailand for people with a hidden political agenda to use the passing of a law to bring the country to its knees? Any political party that have a majority in parliament have the constitutional right to pass laws, people opposing it may demostrate but they may not break the law. Here in is my problem with the PDRC, they had the right to demonstrate, but they don't have the right to break the law and neither do they have the right to prevent people from voting, neither do they have the right to assualt and kill people including the police, neither do they have the right to occupy government buildings. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Now turn the coin over and repost.

dud the Reds do anything like this to a democratically elected government when they were in opposition?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[djjamie]

My government?

It's not my government or your government it's the thai people government!

And the thai people should have the right to vote for whatever party they chose.Not being told who will govern them by people who crave power by the way of intimidating bullying and blocking people their basic right to vote.

So the yellows claim they have the numbers. That's a good thing!

Now call for an election and all parties put up their policies and go for it!

The only problem I see lately is that the leader of the democrats has been missing in action for a few days now.Not one statement from him on anything.

I just hope he is doing his own planning for Thailands future and gives the people other alternatives to chose from.

Sutep should be made irrelevant and as for the mad monk he has his own plans if sutep fails and who knows what's install then!

"And the thai people should have the right to vote for whatever party they chose.Not being told who will govern them by people who crave power by the way of intimidating bullying and blocking people their basic right to vote."

Been to a Red village lately?

I was in a Red village during the 2011 election. One person there openly supported Abhisit, but there was never any hint of a threat of violence against him. He was just treated like a village idiot by the rest of the locals, who by the way definitely didn't need 500 baht to vote for PTP.

I just revel in these unsubstantiated claims.

Can I have a go?

I live in a red shirt village in 2014 during the election. Over 50% didn't vote (which is inline with statistics) and I asked why. They stated they wanted reform before elections (which is inline with every poll conducted in 2014). I asked what they thought of the 45% that did vote. They said they got paid 500 baht each to vote and that they were idiots. I asked why they needed 500 baht and they said because they have been waiting since September for rice money (that is inline with statistics) so they were desperate because they had no food to put on the table.

Great isn't it when you can say stuff without backing it up with facts.

Though I have 3 facts in mine. Election stats, poll stats and rice payment delays which can easily be looked up.

So essentially my claim holds more water and in fact is more plausible. You said you went to a red village 3 years ago. So you went once 3 years ago? In that one visit you worked out that only one person voted Ahbisit while everyone else voted PTP? You speak fluent Thai and asked every member of that village? They told a westerner that they do not know that the person that voted Ahbisit was an idiot.

That is PTP logic.

My claim wins.

Edited May 20, 2014 by djjamie

[marko kok prong]

I,er, if the right honuorable member will ,let me speak,,i, er propose my self,Tony,er, Abbot,as the er, next primeminister of , er,{shuffling of papers],yeah,er Thailand,i think they could learn a lot from ostrlia, and i,er am willing to take ,the ,er roll,on ,if i can meet with the ,er ex, pm, in a er, hotel,and then we can thrash out the .er details,as er ,long as she,is er wearing ,er fancy lingerie,etc, is this motion passed.

yea. The Aussie take on it.

[ThailandNoob]

My government?

It's not my government or your government it's the thai people government!

And the thai people should have the right to vote for whatever party they chose.Not being told who will govern them by people who crave power by the way of intimidating bullying and blocking people their basic right to vote.

So the yellows claim they have the numbers. That's a good thing!

Now call for an election and all parties put up their policies and go for it!

The only problem I see lately is that the leader of the democrats has been missing in action for a few days now.Not one statement from him on anything.

I just hope he is doing his own planning for Thailands future and gives the people other alternatives to chose from.

Sutep should be made irrelevant and as for the mad monk he has his own plans if sutep fails and who knows what's install then!

"And the thai people should have the right to vote for whatever party they chose.Not being told who will govern them by people who crave power by the way of intimidating bullying and blocking people their basic right to vote."

Been to a Red village lately?

I was in a Red village during the 2011 election. One person there openly supported Abhisit, but there was never any hint of a threat of violence against him. He was just treated like a village idiot by the rest of the locals, who by the way definitely didn't need 500 baht to vote for PTP.

I just revel in these unsubstantiated claims.

Can I have a go?

I live in a red shirt village in 2014 during the election. Over 50% didn't vote (which is inline with statistics) and I asked why. They stated they wanted reform before elections (which is inline with every poll conducted in 2014). I asked what they thought of the 45% that did vote. They said they got paid 500 baht each to vote and that they were idiots. I asked why they needed 500 baht and they said because they have been waiting since September for rice money (that is inline with statistics) so they were desperate because they had no food to put on the table.

Great isn't it when you can say stuff without backing it up with facts.

Though I have 3 facts in mine. Election stats, poll stats and rice payment delays which can easily be looked up.

So essentially my claim holds more water and in fact is more plausible. You said you went to a red village 3 years ago. So you went once 3 years ago? In that one visit you worked out that only one person voted Ahbisit while everyone else voted PTP? You speak fluent Thai and asked every member of that village? They told a westerner that they do not know that the person that voted Ahbisit was an idiot.

That is PTP logic.

My claim wins.

Actually I have lost count of the number of times I have been upcountry (usually staying for around a week at a time). And whether or not I can speak "fluent" Thai depends on how you definition of "fluent". I personally don't feel it is at native level, but I can have a heated discussion for 15 minutes over the phone and pass for a native speaker until I give my name, make presentations in it at work, and listen to your idol Suthep's speeches without subtitles.

If you choose to doubt what I say then I can't really do anything about that since we are on an anonymous Internet forum, but what you say won't change my mind at all, since I know what I write is true.

[djjamie]

"And the thai people should have the right to vote for whatever party they chose.Not being told who will govern them by people who crave power by the way of intimidating bullying and blocking people their basic right to vote."

Been to a Red village lately?

I was in a Red village during the 2011 election. One person there openly supported Abhisit, but there was never any hint of a threat of violence against him. He was just treated like a village idiot by the rest of the locals, who by the way definitely didn't need 500 baht to vote for PTP.

I just revel in these unsubstantiated claims.

Can I have a go?

I live in a red shirt village in 2014 during the election. Over 50% didn't vote (which is inline with statistics) and I asked why. They stated they wanted reform before elections (which is inline with every poll conducted in 2014). I asked what they thought of the 45% that did vote. They said they got paid 500 baht each to vote and that they were idiots. I asked why they needed 500 baht and they said because they have been waiting since September for rice money (that is inline with statistics) so they were desperate because they had no food to put on the table.

Great isn't it when you can say stuff without backing it up with facts.

Though I have 3 facts in mine. Election stats, poll stats and rice payment delays which can easily be looked up.

So essentially my claim holds more water and in fact is more plausible. You said you went to a red village 3 years ago. So you went once 3 years ago? In that one visit you worked out that only one person voted Ahbisit while everyone else voted PTP? You speak fluent Thai and asked every member of that village? They told a westerner that they do not know that the person that voted Ahbisit was an idiot.

That is PTP logic.

My claim wins.

Actually I have lost count of the number of times I have been upcountry (usually staying for around a week at a time). And whether or not I can speak "fluent" Thai depends on how you definition of "fluent". I personally don't feel it is at native level, but I can have a heated discussion for 15 minutes over the phone and pass for a native speaker until I give my name, make presentations in it at work, and listen to your idol Suthep's speeches without subtitles.

If you choose to doubt what I say then I can't really do anything about that since we are on an anonymous Internet forum, but what you say won't change my mind at all, since I know what I write is true.

More unsubstanciated claims.

He asked if you have been to a red shirt village lately as he was talking about the present and you refer to 2011. I refer to 2014.

We are living in the present which is 2014. 2011 is 3 years ago…Hang on, let me check…Yep, 3 years ago.

My claim holds more water about the present, now and here yet you want to talk about the past with no facts to argue the present.

Next you will refer to a village visit in 1972 to further your political argument in 2014.

That is PTP logic right there.

[pton]

Run by the courses of the laws. Stop trying to make matters worst for the country. Listen to the "real" citizens' needs, not the people who conquered the government house. If all groups do not get off track, Thailand would not be in this situation.

While I deeply dislike government that abuses power, condones corruption and blatently lies to the citizens, the group that is truly off track, unfortunately, is actually the Democrats. They do not seem to understand the basic tenet of democracy - that all persons are equal, that one person one vote is sacred. To say the "real" citizens just threw all facade of a democracy out by creating different classes of citizens.

The Democrats needs to learn how to win the hearts and minds, and thereby the votes, of the majority of the citizens. Although seriously flawed (perhaps by design?), the rice scheme in and by itself, is no different than agricultural subsidies around the world. Why? From EU to Japan to US, the farmers represent a huge voting block, and therefore their needs and demands must be addressed in order to win an election. For the Democrats to earn its mandate to govern this great kingdom, it must propose a party platform to address the poorer, less educated, less fortunate fellow brethrens who form the majority ... hopefully creating a scheme better than the current rice scheme that bankrupts the nation.

Frankly, the non-payments on the rice scheme and first-car rebates by this government are just the tip of the iceberg in convincingly showing to all citizens the government's empty promises. They offerred the Democrats perfect opportunities to win over the masses if they counter offer better schemes of their own. Did the Dems offer any alternative platform? Nothing. They were too full of themselves and quick to turn away the masses by calling them uneducated water buffaloes.

The Democrats need to come down from their ivory tower and get a good campaign strategist and PR guru to run a real political campaign. (Look at Obama's campaign.) They got to stop making a mockery of democracy, and start respecting the voices and votes of their fellow Thais.

They also really got to get their own act together. Just to name two examples.

If my memory is right, the very Constitution that they wanted to reform now was written by their own people ... the same bunch who overthrew Thaksin. Why didn't they do it right the first time? What's to tell they will "get it right" this time around?

Which government let Thaksin's wife come home as a free person, despite her conviction for corruption. How did her marriage status with Thaksin after the crime have anything to do with her being guilty of being a party to Thaksin's crime?

The Democrats are right about corruption and unsustainable policies by the Thaksin government. They only gave the reasons why the PTP does not deserve people's trust and votes. They gave no reason why people should trust and vote for the Democrats.

Until they learn to do that, this nation will be hard pressed to get a good government. After all, even if Thaksin and gang were eliminated, as Suthep wished, the Democrats have no defense against anyone else who is astute political campaigner to win a mandate from the populace, and then abuse power all over again.