How long do tires last in Thailand?

[WarpSpeed]

So first hand experience that it means cooler tyres hence much reduced risk of blowout, it's all about that risk and really has nothing to do with tyre/rubber degradation..

Still clueless as they are not mutually exclusive, one effects the other..

[Spoonman]

tick tock tick tock. when will the learning begin Transam ?

In your case........

Well you did buy a Ford so it will be difficult ........

So you have nothing then other than personal attacks, this was very much expected as that is the way you work.

[WarpSpeed]

So first hand experience that it means cooler tyres hence much reduced risk of blowout, it's all about that risk and really has nothing to do with tyre/rubber degradation..

Nooooooo, tyres have an operating temperature to do their stuff.

Yes, but that operating range is relative to where the tyre was made and sold. Tyres that are made and sold in cooler climates are of a different composition to those made and sold in say tropical climates. So the use of nitrogen in reducing blow out risk is more likely in warmer climates, it's difficult to imagine why Scandinavians or Canadians for example might wish to use it, no?

After all of your dismissive tone originally good to see you're thinking a bit now, though still quite a ways from the point of full understanding at least now you're trying with a different tone.

Edited May 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I believe that the primary purpose of filling tyres with nitrogen is to avoid blowouts as described here:

"In Québec in the last four years, three fatal accidents involving heavy vehicles were directly attributable to the bursting of tires. The degradation of the rubber under the effect of heat is the main cause. In fact, under some conditions when the temperature reaches a sufficiently high threshold, several physical and chemical phenomena occur inside the tire and in the volume normally occupied by the air that fills it. The heating of the air inside the tire helps raise the internal pressure, and the degradation of the rubber by the oxidation produced by the increase in temperature seems to cause a reaction characterized by a release of heat that can lead to the explosion of the gases thus produced inside the tire. There are few apparent indications for detecting the start or scope of the degradation with or without pyrolysis (a phenomenon that requires the presence of oxygen)".

http://www.irsst.qc.ca/en/-project-study-of-the-possible-causes-of-bursting-of-tires-on-heavy-duty-trucks-and-identification-of-potential-solution-scenarios-0099-4830.html

Clearly there is a degrading effect on the inside of the tyre caused by heat and moisture, although since the inside of the tyre avoids sunlight and UV and is exposed to only minimal amounts of moisture, the effect of those things is likely to represent only a small proportion of the damage caused to external surfaces. Yes, oxidation of the rubber inside the tyre is caused by heat build up which is reduced from external surfaces whilst the vehicle is in motion. But wheeled vehicles tend to spend the greater percentage of their time parked hence oxidation of the rubber inside a tyre is more likely to be a very minor factor compared to that experienced on the outer surfaces.

In conclusion, nitrogen fill in tyres were designed to stop performance and racing cars from having blow outs, the benefits in that area are undeniable since dragsters, formula cars and the like are prone to such things by virtue of the torque they generate. But for ordinary passenger vehicles, even slightly powerful ones, even in tropical climates, I doubt there's any advantage whatsoever.

Yes, thank you, blow outs due to overheating which then also causes over pressure due to moisture content and internal tire degradation which eventually leads to external degradation and tire failure, all you had to do is say you agree, it would have been much easier then posting all the info from another source that I already gave you..

Same time of the evening, same rhetoric, go sleep it off.

Ut oh, that was short lived, sorry, I gave you more credit then I should have, seems you're still just a troll.. Still just as ignorant too, as just yesterday I told you it was not night here, it is morning.. And whatever "it" is supposed to be I probably don't need sleep to get rid of "it".

Edited May 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Iam still watching this space Transam. when will I learn something ?

You're just not paying attention Spooners, I'm learning a ton..

Edited May 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

From everything i've read about nitrogen in motorsport it has nothing to do with blowouts. Nitrogen expands and contracts less than air when tempreture changes. When using air a cold tyre needs to o be below optimal pressure for car setup, as tyre comes up to racing temp pressure increases to a better level for car setup. By using nitrogen the pressure is more constant and the car better to drive on cold tyres.

When i used nitrogen in a set of new tyres in Aus they did not need pumping up for a couple years, don't know why they were just standard Bridgestones. I was rather amazed.

Oddly you got a "like" from T/A? More back tracking once the tide of thought goes against him now suddenly he's with the crowd..But yet he also liked the counter point to your post on the previous page. Seems he's confused and waffling just a bit again.. Although he's been arguing the point I made from the very beginning which you just echoed. The point regarding racing has ironically come up in spite of my attempts to avoid it since most can't grasp the correlation between the 2. But yes in my follow up post on the next page, once I got back to the conversation and before I saw this post, we basically say the same thing..

Well I have been reading with interest, ............your reply to CM, to be honest I don't know what your talking about, BUT, I remained quiet until for some reason you brought me into YOUR waffle............

This is not uncommon for you and actually is quite common. As for this part:

I remained quiet until for some reason you brought me into YOUR waffle

Also not uncommon for you to completely overlook much of the debates context. One thing you always miss is that I never waffle I remain steadfast in what I KNOW to be true and if it isn't I don't participate just to read my own nonsense, I wish you'd apply those same lessons.. It now seems you too have a new ill informed cronie, a twin brother perhaps?

[Kwasaki]

Very strange the way this thread has run but doesn't anyone here have a Bently the ' argon ' in my tyres stays constant so my chauffeur tells me and road noise is hardy noticable, while I drink my Chang beer.

[chiang mai]

There's something slightly surreal about this thread, WS seems to need to respond to each post in serial fashion without building an argument in the process. Whatever, we can only make assumptions about the lifestyle of WS vs the TOD and leave it there, the topic has been exhausted I believe, over and out is perhaps the best option. . Byeee!

[MrY]

Hundredthousandmilliongazillionmegamiles out of a set of tires. I stand in awe. I corner mine. Gotta change them when traction starts to diminish...

[WarpSpeed]

See the problem is you can't digest the info and are many fold but I'll address the 2 most obvious where you're concerned. 1) I'm not in your time zone so the need to catch up a thread that has run for an entire day before I get here.. 2) I don't need to "build an argument" as there is nothing to argue, I posted facts about tires that are still over your head and you aren't capable of understanding the simple science behind it no matter how elementary it's put to you and you call it "rhetoric" ( ) how that applies to a tire discussion is curious? You THINK a tire can "explode" from chemical reactions due to the composition of the air within the tire, the list of idiocy goes on, so how can a knowledgeable person such as myself have a reasoned debate with one who thinks on that level, and not think that person is any more than a troll?

Edited May 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

There's something slightly surreal about this thread, WS seems to need to respond to each post in serial fashion without building an argument in the process. Whatever, we can only make assumptions about the lifestyle of WS vs the TOD and leave it there, the topic has been exhausted I believe, over and out is perhaps the best option. . Byeee!

No such luck, a troll never leaves the topic until the topic leaves the troll.. Sadly you feel so inadequate that you have to leave the thread before you understand the science and educate yourself but you did come into it with nonsense so stands to reason you leave it the same way.

Edited May 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[kiniyow]

I thought my DeeStones were going to run at least a million KM but went to crap after a few thousand

[chiang mai]

There's something slightly surreal about this thread, WS seems to need to respond to each post in serial fashion without building an argument in the process. Whatever, we can only make assumptions about the lifestyle of WS vs the TOD and leave it there, the topic has been exhausted I believe, over and out is perhaps the best option. . Byeee!

No such luck, a troll never leaves the topic until the topic leaves the troll.. Sadly you feel so inadequate that you have to leave the thread before you understand the science and educate yourself but you did come into it with nonsense so stands to reason you leave it the same way.

I'm not sure why all your posts, so many of them, need to be so abusive, it's not really a debate or a discussion, is it.

OK, I'm out.

[WarpSpeed]

There's something slightly surreal about this thread, WS seems to need to respond to each post in serial fashion without building an argument in the process. Whatever, we can only make assumptions about the lifestyle of WS vs the TOD and leave it there, the topic has been exhausted I believe, over and out is perhaps the best option. . Byeee!

No such luck, a troll never leaves the topic until the topic leaves the troll.. Sadly you feel so inadequate that you have to leave the thread before you understand the science and educate yourself but you did come into it with nonsense so stands to reason you leave it the same way.

I'm not sure why all your posts, so many of them, need to be so abusive, it's not really a debate or a discussion, is it.

OK, I'm out.

Not surprised you don't get that either, the answer you seek is easily located in your first post to me where you put up laughing icons and make reference to my information in a demeaning & sarcastic manner poking at my explanation, so not being a doormat nor a shrinking violet, the disrespect you showed me bounced right back to you as it will with anyone who comes on the way you did and then you left knowing you were wrong but not being man enough to admit it, instead leaving with the same tone you came in except with a bit more whine added to it..

BTW the first line in your post is supposed to end with a '?' and it isn't ALL my posts just ones directed towards obvious trolls who come into a topic spewing rubbish and then adding their own personal brand of dismissiveness and disrespect. There is no debate to be had when you're so far off the base but still insist how right you are, and continue to take shots like you have right up until your hopefully, final post..

Edited May 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[kwonitoy]

Ran the factory supplied Michelins on my 08 Toyota Vigo for 100,000km no problem, five years of use. Then changed out the set.

I wouldn't think 50k kms is necessary unless there's signs of tire damage from debris, run over nails or metal is quite common. I've had several good holes from that and always replace the tire.

Never heard of a time limit other than having to change the tires on my Harley after 20 years of age. six years of use and 14 of storage.

Re Harley: and very little riding. I run through a set of tires on my Harley every 12-15k miles, about a year--on previous Harleys, the factory Dunlops lasted only 10k on rear--the new bike's factory Michelins lasted 13k on rear, got about 8k on the new set of Metzlers, still look great and ride well.

The original factory tires were still in good shape after sitting so long, still had air in them, heated storage place in Canada.

When I had the dealer clean the bike up and get in running again they wouldn't let me take it out on the road without changing the rubber, liability issues.

[cheshiremusicman]

A pair of my Mich are in their 7th year . From manufacture date they are guaranteed for 9 years.........

Same with me, but I've only done about 80,000kms in the 7 years I've had the Fortuner. These are Michelin as well and still have lots of tread on them and seem fine with no signs of walls cracking or suffering from the heat and humidity. I didn't realise they were guaranteed for 9 years though. I've only had to replace one and that was due to a side wall getting damaged when I hit a very deep pothole somewhere - new one cost 5,200B, but they are very large tyres. I will probably replace the others at the 9 year mark.

[cheshiremusicman]

A pair of my Mich are in their 7th year . From manufacture date they are guaranteed for 9 years.........

Same with me, but I've only done about 80,000kms in the 7 years I've had the Fortuner. These are Michelin as well and still have lots of tread on them and seem fine with no signs of walls cracking or suffering from the heat and humidity. I didn't realise they were guaranteed for 9 years though. I've only had to replace one and that was due to a side wall getting damaged when I hit a very deep pothole somewhere - new one cost 5,200B, but they are very large tyres. I will probably replace the others at the 9 year mark.

Exactly the same as my rides tyres. 265/70x16. The Mich guarantee is 6 years on the vehicle but can be 3 years on the shelf, so a "possible" 9 years from the tyres date stamp.

Hi Transam. Yes, seem to be very good tyres with good all round capabilities and I certainly will go for the same one's as replacements unless anybody can give me a very good reason/explanation to change to anything else ( I don't do off-roading). My tyres are filled with air and don't seem to need topping up for months on end, even now at the 7 year mark. I've kept the original wheels and don't fancy changing to some of the more exotic styles. A tyre specialist back in the UK, used to tell me that people had more problems with the fancy wheels because they tended to leak on the rim seals due to oxidisation, presumably because of the metal that they were formed from, but maybe this has all changed today?

[Jitar]

A couple of points while the bickering has subsided.

Tyre blowouts and tyre explosions are not the same. Blowouts are primarily caused by mechanical damage or structural fatigue. Nitrogen might help a little but the major factors are the load, pressure and debris the tyre has been exposed to through its life.

Tyre explosions are a potential problem for tyres under very high load and / or speed, usually aircraft or heavy truck tyres. These tyres are under high pressure (~150 psi) and the heat generated by the tyre flexing builds up, and in some cases produces a flammable mixture inside the tyre. Auto-ignition can occur if the heat and pressure are great enough, making a much bigger bang than a blow out. Nitrogen fill is a benefit in these situations because it reduces the oxygen content and the changes the auto ignition limit of the gas mixture inside the tyre. Hence tyres on airliners, some mining and industrial trucks are Nitrogen filled. Tyre explosions are also a risk with earth-mover tyres in a fire but that's another story.

Pickup tyres tend to last longer than car tyres because they are usually harder compound and deeper tread. Many pickups are used as a car with no load so the tyres are also at a low percentage of their rated load.

Driving style has a big influence on tyre life, e.g. tyres life is longer for highway use than city driving.

Michelin is a good brand but they are not magic. We have several PPV / pickups on standard 16 & 17 inch basic Michelin, Bridgestone and Maxxis tyres and larger 20inch Yokohama Parada Spec X tyres. For our use, the Michelin, Bridgestone and Maxxis tyres all do ~90,000 km. The Yokos do about 65,000 kms but have much better grip. I like the Yokos but YMMV.

Back to the OP question, tyres definitely age with UV & sunlight. Most guidelines I have seen suggest 5 - 10 years as a realistic life. Apparently tyres age more if they are not used so tyres from old stock may not be a good idea for vehicles doing low mileages or as a spare. Recommending replacing tyres at 3 years sounds like sales talk unless there is some obvious sign of aging or the tyres have been used for 3 years but are actually considerably older.

[chiang mai]

Agreed regarding the explosion of internal gasses, the University of Quebec extract earlier was clear on that point.

[harrry]

I find a bit of trouble with the short period here. Conditions here weather wise are no worse than, and in some ways better than those in Australia. The tyres should last at least as long as there. I also agree that for excessive speed...ie 160 kph this is probably the safest time to change.

Retreads are very common in Australia and from everything I hear a good retread is as safe as a new tyre at speeds of 110km or less..ie legal speeds there and higher than legal here. Casings are retreaded several times and may be 10 or 12 years old.

I think a little exageeration comes in with a desire to sell more too that may not be needed for normal use. Not everone is a racetrack driver and a few of us learnt our lessons when we were younger. Yes, wheen I was younger I broke the rules too so I am not condeming those who do so if the conditions are safe but not everyone may need to replace their tyres every two or three years.

[natway09]

Civic 3 year old, 63,000km on clock, rear boots still have 20,000km in them. Front, nearly ready for the rubber crematorium.

[WarpSpeed]

A couple of points while the bickering has subsided.

Tyre blowouts and tyre explosions are not the same. Blowouts are primarily caused by mechanical damage or structural fatigue. Nitrogen might help a little but the major factors are the load, pressure and debris the tyre has been exposed to through its life.

Tyre explosions are a potential problem for tyres under very high load and / or speed, usually aircraft or heavy truck tyres. These tyres are under high pressure (~150 psi) and the heat generated by the tyre flexing builds up, and in some cases produces a flammable mixture inside the tyre. Auto-ignition can occur if the heat and pressure are great enough, making a much bigger bang than a blow out. Nitrogen fill is a benefit in these situations because it reduces the oxygen content and the changes the auto ignition limit of the gas mixture inside the tyre. Hence tyres on airliners, some mining and industrial trucks are Nitrogen filled. Tyre explosions are also a risk with earth-mover tyres in a fire but that's another story.

Pickup tyres tend to last longer than car tyres because they are usually harder compound and deeper tread. Many pickups are used as a car with no load so the tyres are also at a low percentage of their rated load.

Driving style has a big influence on tyre life, e.g. tyres life is longer for highway use than city driving.

Michelin is a good brand but they are not magic. We have several PPV / pickups on standard 16 & 17 inch basic Michelin, Bridgestone and Maxxis tyres and larger 20inch Yokohama Parada Spec X tyres. For our use, the Michelin, Bridgestone and Maxxis tyres all do ~90,000 km. The Yokos do about 65,000 kms but have much better grip. I like the Yokos but YMMV.

Back to the OP question, tyres definitely age with UV & sunlight. Most guidelines I have seen suggest 5 - 10 years as a realistic life. Apparently tyres age more if they are not used so tyres from old stock may not be a good idea for vehicles doing low mileages or as a spare. Recommending replacing tyres at 3 years sounds like sales talk unless there is some obvious sign of aging or the tyres have been used for 3 years but are actually considerably older.

On your first sentence you can't say that definitively with so much certainty, the article that was posted ironically by CM who has been arguing his own reference seemingly just to troll, clearly states that the primary issue is that the cords separate from the rubber due to heat, moisture which creates corrosion and one other factor not so important I can't recall at the mo and those conditions are primarily within the tires where the heat moisture build up is higher and the cords are closest to those factors..

On the second part regarding "exploding" tires on high pressure airplane tires etc. how is that relevant to the motoring forum? I see that CM has jumped up and claimed his badge but really was it relevant to these examples and cars? Of course not, so if that's the case it can only be read as nothing but a troll.

No body has disputed or discounted driving habits or the effects of UV but as you noted that is still not an immediate danger to tire life, likely they'll just wear out under normal usage long before that can be factored in unless you're buying some used tires somewhere also not what was pertinent to the OP. If CM wishes to positively contribute, learn and not come on like the tire authority of Thailand then he's more than welcome otherwise he'll get back what he put into the thread by making his first post and every one thereafter antagonistic and abrasive.

It is also noted the he agreed with the recommendation of 3 years life span for a tire and now he seems to have waffled on that regard too. Fine ok to pull back from a statement but do it with integrity, dignity and where necessary make apologies like several here, myself included have done many times.

Edited May 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Spoonman]

No Tranny. he is giving a proper sensible reply. the polar opposite of yourself and that other ace of pop idiot offer up.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Spoonman

[Anon999]

The first question is who told you that, a tyre shop?

With age tyres go hard, lose elasticity and grip, however, I have never heard of those criteria before. What the mileage has to do with it is a complete mystery. By UK law there must be at least 1.6 mm of tread across 75% of the tread. That is easily established by the wear bars that can be seen around the circumference between the rows of tread so once you get down to one or them they need changing.

Tyre life depends on the quality of the tyre and the compound allied to your driving habits. They are not al the same and some tyres just do not suit some cars! Consequently there is not any specific mileage that can be quoted.

What I do know it that Thai motorists generally change all 4 tyres regardless of their condition or amount of tread remaining. That is something I have never done, not wanting to throw money down the drain. I have been ask by tyre shops in Thailand about replacing all 4 tyres and they have been surprised my answer is always, no thanks put the 2 new ones on the front.

You should make sure the spare, unless it's a spacesaver is used as well because after 5 years it will probably be hard and the sidewalls will crack upon use.

Make sure you use a 'proper' tyre shop that has a 4 wheel tracking system and technicians who are able to operate it correctly. The are not so easy to find. Some type shops, to my amazement use a tape measure to check the tracking! Once while paying for a puncture repair and balance I came out of the office to see 2 guys adjusting the tracking using a tape measure!! Consequently I had to take it to the place where I buy tyres for them to readjust it.

Four wheel tracking is very important. The reason being that one rear wheel being out of alignment can cause the car to pull to one side even on a flat straight piece of road. It will cause excessive tyre wear on that wheel and the corners of the fronts as they will be scrubbing while you drive in a straight line and even more while cornering. Just by looking at worn tyres you can see if the tracking is out, assuming nothing is bent or worn in the suspension.

Hope that is of help.

[Anon999]

Michelin tires can last practically forever in the Thai heat and humidity*

Other brands, 3-4 years and they're toast.

* Disclaimer: You will need a highly accurate tire pressure gauge, and will need to fill them up with daily loving kisses to possibly achieve these claims.

Tyres will not last practically forever even in the UK. They harden over time, lose elasticity, become hard, the sidwalls crack and there is a significant loss of grip.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anon999]

I had the pads and rear shoes replaced just last week, the guy in the workshop said the tyres needed changing but I couldnt see it, the tread is great etc but maybe thats what he was referring too, I thought usual try for more money. Quoted 18k for a new set of bridgestones on Toyota pre runner. What do you think ? Good deal ?

And why would you want to change all 4? See my other long post .

[Anon999]

Make sure you check the date of manufacture on the tyre before you buy them....when I got my last set....they were trying to flog me 5yo tyres already.,,,,,,nobody checks the date

Would never have occured to me, thanks for that.

They do mention the production date at the better shops. We recently changed the 3 year old Bridgestone Potenzas on the S6. The front were fairly worn on the outer edge.

The back showed hairline cracks. It was time. Now we have Yoko Earth-1s on there. Road noise is way down. However, the do squeal easier than the Bridgestones if hanging a quick turn. 20,000 for the set. 245/40/17

Try to find a tyre shop with 4 wheel tracking gear with a competent operator, they not too easy to find. A rear wheel put of alignment could be the cause, particularly from what you say about the fronts.

[arthurwait]

Make sure you check the date of manufacture on the tyre before you buy them....when I got my last set....they were trying to flog me 5yo tyres already.,,,,,,nobody checks the date

Would never have occured to me, thanks for that.

They do mention the production date at the better shops. We recently changed the 3 year old Bridgestone Potenzas on the S6. The front were fairly worn on the outer edge.

The back showed hairline cracks. It was time. Now we have Yoko Earth-1s on there. Road noise is way down. However, the do squeal easier than the Bridgestones if hanging a quick turn. 20,000 for the set. 245/40/17

Try to find a tyre shop with 4 wheel tracking gear with a competent operator, they not too easy to find. A rear wheel put of alignment could be the cause, particularly from what you say about the fronts.

Heat would be the cause of the rear and hanging a quick turn would probably be the cause of the front.

[Anon999]

You must be American. Slow speed and straight roads dramatically improve the mileage from a tyre. In the UK straight roads are a novelty so 30K miles is about average. The front wheel tyres are always first to show wear.

Not sure how long ago you left the UK but there are hundreds of mile of motorways and arterial roads that have few bends let alone corners. Maybe you can identify the source of your 30K miles from? Your last sentence is stating the obvious as the back wheels are mainly there to stop the exhaust dragging on the ground.

[Ace of Pop]

Just go to Tire Plus, they dont Con You, latest Tracking and Balancing, they dont bang metal weights on to Alloys, or scour them with fitting machine.You recive a Book with each tires sidewall details stated, and its position on the vehicle.Recepton Ladies are rather nice too.....