Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[stevenl]

" I'd be prepared to bring copies of airline tickets and proof of sufficient funds though."

Air tickets is stupid thing - everybody know that exist ticket tarifs which allow return tickets. So this is just burecracy - ppl buy tickets, pass the border, and then return it to aircraft company - this visitors filter doesnt work anywhere the world. - stupid waste of time - for everybody.

About sufficient of funds, Well i have on accounts several million bahts, but the question in airport i meet at 15 of May was not suffient funds - it was notice that in my passport i have Cambodia border run and words - don't do this again. Well on 15 May it was words. Whats the next?

As per post #262: " Regarding 'get a proper visa', the officlal statements on websites, etc (what has generally been true in the past), is not how it is anymore, in most cases. Ignore the people with other types of visa denying that: if you've tried to get another Thailand tourist visa recently, inside any SE Asian country, you know it's getting harder and harder to come by.

The OBVIOUS thing that no one here is mentioning, is that the PM was forced to flee office, just 2 days before this was first announced. That is NOT UNRELATED! It is certainly a more obvious reality than 1% unemployment being suddenly seen as an emergency. Nor was it a coincidence that it became much harder to get a new tourist visa after she first took office: her party (which I have no opinion of) traditionally is not partial to farangs. Royalists traditionally are. That the new head of immigration who found a chance to impose harsh prejudices based on 'the feelings of a particular agent' is Thai-speak. 'Working illegially' isn't what it's about at all. It means, "Oh yeah? You Royalists think that foreigners are more important than the poor people up-country? I have the power in this office now, and watch this."

In America and the UK it's become routine for some politicians to target ethnic minorities. Like it or not, that's you here. We've all learned to detect their dog whistle calls back at home, about 'inner city' people meaning blacks (in America), rightwing politicians supporting 'stop and frisk' laws to target whatever group of people they don't like, muslims being targeted unfairly by UK law enforcement. It's common, but here in Thailand, we have been rather blissfully unaware of how much 'some' people don't like us, no matter how polite and 'Thai' we try to be. You aren't going to hear about it from your girlfriend, a food vendor, or your landlord. I love Thai people, but they are famous for not speaking their minds and smiling. The retirement, gold-plated crowd may well be very surprised after first celebrating the 'tourists' being driven out in the next months. Because they are in truth, as white as the rest of us. And just like blacks or Mexicans in America, or Muslims in the UK, there are plenty of people in Thailand who hate you every bit as much. Once you are the remaining target, all bets are off as far as your relazing retirements go, no matter how 'legitimate' you like to imagine Thais see you as being up to now."

It appears as all the measures or "knee jerk reaction" are moving towards "legalizing" some sort of extortion by immigration officers and consular officials from every "white farang" regardless if law obedient or illegally working. Some sort of "well connected consultancies" could pop up and offer a resolution for an additional fee. Who could provide at least one example when Thai system was capable of function without any corruption?

Would all of us who are not working in Thailand and just enjoying the sun agree on acting through public media in our country of passport by raising our concerns about adverse discrimination / racism?

It does not matter if any white farang come from Eastern or Western Europe or Canada/US, we are now at the same boat as targeted by local mob minority. Let's start with explaining regular Thai suppliers of services how new rules are hurting their pockets when we are discriminated against. It could be too late by August. Act now and start spending less with adding explanations about new political forces. I am sure: local Thais who are benefiting from farangs could raise their concerns too.

Nothing to do with being a farang yes or no, this is much more aimed at some Asian nations.

BTW: 'white farang'? Nice example of a pleonasm.

Edited May 18, 2014 by stevenl

[stevenl]

Honestly, I don't see the relation between tourist visa and illegal work, because you can illegally work on any kind of visa.

Which is why the concern is with the out-in border runs, not at any specific kind of visa.

Edited May 18, 2014 by stevenl

[samran]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

Non immigrant O to support a Thai child (ie yours). Or if you've got enough to retire early 10 million investment visa.

[Nautilus05]

Does anyone know, is this immigration crackdown getting much attention within Thai media? If so, how harsh are they being on foriegners? Are we the devil's spawn and eat babies, or are we still pretty decent folk?

[JB300]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

Non immigrant O to support a Thai child (ie yours). Or if you've got enough to retire early 10 million investment visa.

Thai Elite Card... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/726441-Thailand-Elite-easy-access-500k-THB-card 500k for 5 years or 2Million for 20 Edited May 18, 2014 by JB300

[simon43]

My concern about this whole situation is the apparent 'knee-jerk' clampdown on those who are either abusing the visa-exempt system, or are basically ignorant of the regulations governing that system, It is fine to firmly impose the existing rules, but the manner in which it has suddenly happened, without any 'grace' period, must surely be worrying to many who stay in Thailand on visas.

We have heard many stories concerning the difficulties in getting or renewing tourist visas, as well as ED visas. For those of you who are sitting 'smug' with your retirement visa, B business visa or O married visa (extensions), may I politely suggest that you too may suddenly fall foul of knee-jerk imposition of new visa rules in the future.

I am in Thailand for (hopefully) the long term, but I would not be happy at an advanced age if the retirement visa suddenly required 2 million baht in the bank. It could happen. Same for those married to Thais. Anything can change and (very important), your right to remain in Thailand on whatever visa you have is purely at the whim of an immigration officer, nothing else.

[badmedicine]

It is a good and a fair policy, HOWEVER the problems will arise with immigration officers, especially at land border crossings and it will create more opportunity for corruption and bribes at the land border crossings

Personally, I hope they're serious and that this isn't just another flavour of the month headline story that will shortly be forgotten, but I have my doubts.

As ever, how successful this policy is will depend on how they implement it. What kind of checks will be made? Will they be consistent? Will the checks themselves be logged? Will any 'evidence' presented be verified? Since most hotels just print out bookings on a standard printer with some dodgy headed note pater, printing out imaginary bookings at home would be child's play that you wouldn't even need Khao San Road for. I can also see the officials being quite happy to take a backhander rather than messing about making phone calls etc to verify every foreigner presenting themselves at the border. Phone calls cost money, and if they were really confirming every tourist is a tourist, this would be an expensive policy.

Chances are nothing will change for most illegals except there'll be an extra hoop to jump through and some extra baht needed. All those visa run "tour" operators will find a way round it to keep themselves in business. A few cases will be highlighted in the press to make it seem the policy is a success, but unless there's consistency and thoroughness at all border points, I doubt this will have the result they're looking for.

[LivinLOS]

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Which is not what John is saying.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but it is what I am saying. The official statement regarding requirements for a TR visa have not changed in years. And also, applying from one's home country seems to be a different case. But the reality on the ground anywhere and everywhere within SE Asia has changed very significanly over the last 2 years. At this point, if the official simply sees several Thai visas in one's passport, regardless of how old they are, the applicant will be refused. No, it's not what the laws says. It's Thailand, and these new statments saying 'simply get a real visa' are double speak. That person surely knows that visas aren't being issued to most people at this point.

Look at this thread and other threads about the same subject. Many people living on perpetual tourist visa.

What you're saying is simply not true and does not reflect policy and reality.

I am no expert as I dont do tourist visas, but I am friendly with many who do..

I think in years past this was the case, but in the last 2 years its gone from being allowed to just go and get multiple back to back double and triple entries, so some consults only issuing singles, to some consuls only issuing if your dont have 'too many, to some consults flat refusing them back to back. Resulting in wasted trips back in with a 30 day and another attempt elsewhere. Of course embassy fixers, agents, and small bribes and 'fees' all comes into play.

This has evolved over the last 2 years and resulted in people picking and choosing the easier places and trying not to burn bridges. But its clearly not a case of just go to any consul and get your visa any more. Its gone from one embassy trip every 9 months (with careful management of a double entry) to a case of hoping about trying to get singles and praying its not got any tougher.

Simply put, it isnt easy to just rely on tourist visas as some people are saying.

[LivinLOS]

To really understand what's happening people need to stop buying, and then arguing over, the officially released excuse: 'working illegally', and 'get a proper visa'.

Get around and look around. Check the tourist areas of Pattaya, Koh Tao, Samui, Phi Phi, Phuket, Khao Lak and you'll see many, many foreigners working illegally, quite often the whole company setup is illegal. And of course the legitimate companies and workers are not happy about that and complaining. Some of these illegal workers are westerners, most of them are Koreans, Russians, Chinese. Coincidence there are targeted now?

You dont only need to do that.. If you go on facebook you will see group after group.. Bangkok digital nomads, Chiang Mai digital nomads etc..

I would guess one in 100 of these has a work permit, as they offer their work skills, barter and sell time and contracts, talk about their SEO work, blog incomes, app work, etc. Its TOTALLY blatant and bring up the issue of being legal or having a work permit and prepare to get shouted down that its not taking jobs from Thais, they dont need a work permit if the money comes from outside Thailand, etc etc..

Its just rubbing immigration's nose in it, publicly stating they work her but have no intention of being legit. They do this linked directly to their social media profiles. I doubt any of them have a clue what the IDC looks like.

[LivinLOS]

Let's be honest, if you are a farang. How much money can you get from illegally working here? And how stable would the job be?

I doubt that the main source of income of the illegal workers is their work and most probably they take a lot of money from abroad into Thailand.

Honestly, I don't see the relation between tourist visa and illegal work, because you can illegally work on any kind of visa.

Your looking at 'working here' meaning only 'working within the Thai economy'..

Theres a lot of money to be made internationally contracting and offering services online..

[LivinLOS]

BTW: 'white farang'? Nice example of a pleonasm.

Yes and no.. I imagine they have legitimate criminal concerns with the west african farang dam who hang around sukhumvit pimping and selling drugs..

[elzach]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

Now if you used your grey matter you would get an OA visa.The only real committment is 800k in a bank,i did this for years and it is the best visa i have ever had.The problem is the Immi boys have been thinking,and are sick of farangs playing them.They are inforcing the rules because the rorts are just too much now.Seems to have hit a raw nerve on this forum.Immigration couldnt care less how much you spend,its how much you got.

Relax. Next thing you're gonna tell us is that Thai immigration rules AND enforcement are well thought-out and make sense.

I specifically stated that some people don't want the commitment of the retirement visa. ALSO, some people don't meet the age requirement but still want to come and spend time and money in Thailand.

That last thing you said, "they don't care about how much you spend, but rather how much you got" proves the Thai immigration fallacy in a nutshell.

These latest crackdowns point to one thing: they're going after the EASY targets (hapless visa runners and tourists at airports and land crossings). Have you noticed any crackdowns on the illegal scum in Pattaya and Phuket?

[LivinLOS]

There is an article in the Bangkokpost of today.

Some more emphasis that this doesnt only mean in and out, doesnt only mean visa exempt entries and includes all people who are not tourists.

Heavy on the Korean angle too, but will apply to everyone.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Mario2008
link to BKK-post removed.

[Time Traveller]

If you're a terrorist from Iran using a stolen passport, you don't need to worry about Thai immigration rules... But if you're a westerner here for 6 months of relaxation then you are now the enemy number 1 of the Thai immigration.

Got to laugh at the Thai's priorities..... going after the soft targets and letting the real criminals go free is soooooo thai

[shakya]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

People like me...Im far from old enough for a retirement visa, i'm not married to a thai, i don't have a company..

I come here from time to time, i use money, i return home to work from time to time, spend most of my time in my home country working and return to Thailand when i'm between jobs & waiting for new job.

In the future i see my self as unwanted in Thailand..

You have no problem, just don't work here without a permit.

And have your holiday set up as a holiday.

Just have your return ticket ready... no problem

[edgarfriendly]

real criminals pay bribes

real criminals accept bribes

[Pattaya46]

Get around and look around. Check the tourist areas //

and you'll see many, many foreigners working illegally,

quite often the whole company setup is illegal.

Please, can you tell me how you recognize a foreigner who work illegaly?

I know several farangs working here as interpreters or in management,

but they do have a work permit and the corresponding visa. So? How do you know?

[simon43]

That BP article says that 8,000 Thais are deported every year from south Korea...... sounds like the Thais are 'abusing' the system over there as much as foreigners are doing it over here....

[paz]

If you're a terrorist from Iran using a stolen passport, you don't need to worry about Thai immigration rules... But if you're a westerner here for 6 months of relaxation then you are now the enemy number 1 of the Thai immigration.

Got to laugh at the Thai's priorities..... going after the soft targets and letting the real criminals go free is soooooo thai

To be fair to the deceased, these Iranians were not terrorist but people that tried for a better life.

Agree that for Thailand to look for dangerous criminal an terrorists they do need need to look any further than in their deep south.

[kjhbigv]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

Non immigrant O to support a Thai child (ie yours). Or if you've got enough to retire early 10 million investment visa.

Marriage, yes.

Investing 10m in this country? Liquidating assets in the UK....not in a million years.

I would only invest that kind of money in a politically mature and stable country.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[samran]

I am under 50 and my income is from the UK from various properties, I spend my time here on Triple Entry Tourist Visa's and head back to homeland every 9 months...now my Thai GF is now 6 mths pregnant.....I rent a place here.....what now?

Why not have a Visa that is similar to a "retirement" Visa but is allowed for under 50's?

I fit all the requirements of a retirement Visa BUT I am not 50.....not my fault I made my cash before the so-called "retirement" age.

I know at the moment, Triple Entries are exempt (to a degree) BUT can easily see this being misinterpreted by Imm.

Marriage here I come!

Non immigrant O to support a Thai child (ie yours). Or if you've got enough to retire early 10 million investment visa.

Marriage, yes.

Investing 10m in this country? Liquidating assets in the UK....not in a million years.

I would only invest that kind of money in a politically mature and stable country.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And that is the call you are entitled to make. But plenty here on this thread whinging about there being no options for people of means. But there is.

And I wouldn't necessarily rate a tranche of Thai bonds risky, nor would have you spit at historical returns on the SET and the mutual funds which have done well off the back of them. But again, ignorance is bliss for some.

[naanaa]

I stay in Thailand more than 6 months a year, I fly out to Asia every 30 days, stay there for few days more or less. I don't work in Thailand (I don't have to work) and I have enough money to stay here, (just small money compare to the living standard in other Asian countries). I rent a condo to store my things. I learn muay thai and training here (to get myself healthy due to my health problems before). I am under 50, and this is just my lifestyle, I know people ask about why i don't get a proper visa, but I think because i like flying around, and Thailand is just easy to stay, so i never bothered to get a tourist visa or whatever.

Am I abusing the visa exception? I don't know, yes or no. But I am sure, I have to think about if I want to stay here anymore after the policy enforced strictly in August! It seems like the policy is so confusing and all dependent on the immigration officers' interpretation!

This is obviously super confusing and seem very inconsistent so I guess anyone's guess is as good as my own but maybe someone been in a similar situation that I will be in next week.

In my passport (Swedish) I have a double entry tourist visa for 2012/13 with extensions (done in Chiang Mai) and 2 extra border runs to Mai Sae for 14 days visa exemptions.
I also have a triple entry tourist visa for 2013/14 with extensions (done in Bkk) and same day border runs to Cambodia to activate the 2nd/3rd entries.
I have several tourist visas in older passports (would they have access to that information?) I work online and haven't worked a single day in Thailand and I don't have a Thai bank account and I just cash out with my overseas VISA when needed. So no paper evidence to show for none Thai based income.

I am leaving Bangkok by air at Suvarnabhumi Sunday next week and I am attending a funeral the day after arrival so delays would be disastrous.

What can I expect when I leave? Questioning and delays? Possibly being detained & delayed several days (lol really? seem absurd) and get blacklisted? Fines? A quick stamp, smile and a 'hope to see you again' greeting?
Obviously no one really knows for sure since it seems so inconsistent but what is your guess, anyone been in a similar situation recently?
Anything I can do to prepare for my exit to avoid problems?

Unrelated but still interesting question in my case> If I get a new blank passport in my home country and a new tourist visas would I be able to get back in? (I have a condo and a lot of possessions here)

Thanks

The question is are you a resident in your home country or Thailand? Reading your last paragraph I'd suggest you are resident in Thailand in which case you need more than a tourist visa.

Tourist visas are what they say on the tin.

What is the definition of a resident? What is the definition of a tourist? I pay taxes in Sweden if that matters. I stay in Thailand about 7 months a year, 3 months travelling Asia and 2 months in Sweden and I rarely stay less than 2 months in one place. I have a condo in Bkk to store my stuff but I only live there in total maybe 4-5 months a year. In which countries am I considered a tourist? Where am I a resident? The world isn't as easy anymore like 99%+ of people showing up in Thailand either has a job that pays a salary which requires you to perform that job in a physical location, or you have wealth and don't need to work anymore. There are a lot of location independent jobs that you can perform anywhere. And there are a lot of people that don't have one fixed place of residency and move around a lot because they like that lifestyle.

But all that is irrelevant and mine and your definition of what a resident and a tourist is doesn't matter. What matters is what the immigration officer interrogating me next Sunday thinks it is. Sometime with little experience on the job and quite often with limited English. Looking at what ever documents I am producing. Have they had a shitty day? Do they have some quota to fill? Are they getting crap from their supervisor for not being firm enough? And this is the big problem here now. The lack of predictability. They can set what ever rules they want but they should be clear. If people show up with a tourist visa and still get denied entry or get blacklisted for 5 years because they have one to many stamps from an arbitrary number of correct stamps that is a big problem. I realize it is early days and it will hopefully become clearer what those rules are but I expect it to be major inconvenience and stress for a lot of people the next 6 months while they try to figure it out.

Are there really that many illegal Russian real estate agents & tourist operators that it is becoming a major issue? I mean do they really need to boot out the illegal English teachers? Are they stealing that many jobs from the great pool qualified Thai born English tutors? Maybe they need more English teachers, not less? Did I miss any other jobs that people actually perform on illegal visas?

[Concerned expat]

I stay in Thailand more than 6 months a year, I fly out to Asia every 30 days, stay there for few days more or less. I don't work in Thailand (I don't have to work) and I have enough money to stay here, (just small money compare to the living standard in other Asian countries). I rent a condo to store my things. I learn muay thai and training here (to get myself healthy due to my health problems before). I am under 50, and this is just my lifestyle, I know people ask about why i don't get a proper visa, but I think because i like flying around, and Thailand is just easy to stay, so i never bothered to get a tourist visa or whatever.

Am I abusing the visa exception? I don't know, yes or no. But I am sure, I have to think about if I want to stay here anymore after the policy enforced strictly in August! It seems like the policy is so confusing and all dependent on the immigration officers' interpretation!

This is obviously super confusing and seem very inconsistent so I guess anyone's guess is as good as my own but maybe someone been in a similar situation that I will be in next week.

In my passport (Swedish) I have a double entry tourist visa for 2012/13 with extensions (done in Chiang Mai) and 2 extra border runs to Mai Sae for 14 days visa exemptions.

I also have a triple entry tourist visa for 2013/14 with extensions (done in Bkk) and same day border runs to Cambodia to activate the 2nd/3rd entries.

I have several tourist visas in older passports (would they have access to that information?) I work online and haven't worked a single day in Thailand and I don't have a Thai bank account and I just cash out with my overseas VISA when needed. So no paper evidence to show for none Thai based income.

I am leaving Bangkok by air at Suvarnabhumi Sunday next week and I am attending a funeral the day after arrival so delays would be disastrous.

What can I expect when I leave? Questioning and delays? Possibly being detained & delayed several days (lol really? seem absurd) and get blacklisted? Fines? A quick stamp, smile and a 'hope to see you again' greeting?

Obviously no one really knows for sure since it seems so inconsistent but what is your guess, anyone been in a similar situation recently?

Anything I can do to prepare for my exit to avoid problems?

Unrelated but still interesting question in my case> If I get a new blank passport in my home country and a new tourist visas would I be able to get back in? (I have a condo and a lot of possessions here)

Thanks

The question is are you a resident in your home country or Thailand? Reading your last paragraph I'd suggest you are resident in Thailand in which case you need more than a tourist visa.

Tourist visas are what they say on the tin.

What is the definition of a resident? What is the definition of a tourist? I pay taxes in Sweden if that matters. I stay in Thailand about 7 months a year, 3 months travelling Asia and 2 months in Sweden and I rarely stay less than 2 months in one place. I have a condo in Bkk to store my stuff but I only live there in total maybe 4-5 months a year. In which countries am I considered a tourist? Where am I a resident? The world isn't as easy anymore like 99%+ of people showing up in Thailand either has a job that pays a salary which requires you to perform that job in a physical location, or you have wealth and don't need to work anymore. There are a lot of location independent jobs that you can perform anywhere. And there are a lot of people that don't have one fixed place of residency and move around a lot because they like that lifestyle.

But all that is irrelevant and mine and your definition of what a resident and a tourist is doesn't matter. What matters is what the immigration officer interrogating me next Sunday thinks it is. Sometime with little experience on the job and quite often with limited English. Looking at what ever documents I am producing. Have they had a shitty day? Do they have some quota to fill? Are they getting crap from their supervisor for not being firm enough? And this is the big problem here now. The lack of predictability. They can set what ever rules they want but they should be clear. If people show up with a tourist visa and still get denied entry or get blacklisted for 5 years because they have one to many stamps from an arbitrary number of correct stamps that is a big problem. I realize it is early days and it will hopefully become clearer what those rules are but I expect it to be major inconvenience and stress for a lot of people the next 6 months while they try to figure it out.

Are there really that many illegal Russian real estate agents & tourist operators that it is becoming a major issue? I mean do they really need to boot out the illegal English teachers? Are they stealing that many jobs from the great pool qualified Thai born English tutors? Maybe they need more English teachers, not less? Did I miss any other jobs that people actually perform on illegal visas?

If illegal Chinese, Korean or Russian tourist operators or estate agencies were such a problem, why not have crackdown straight at any office immigration could "suspect" for the breach of work permit? Pattaya is not so far from Bangkok government departments.

From the previous posts it looks like it is more of a racial issue of common jealousy from any semi-brain dead at immigration slot with peanut monthly wages against many WHITE FARANGS who can earn more money in a day or two in comparison with a month pay of many locals. I am not too familiar with black farangs working as pimps along Sukhumvit or any other road (simply too fussy about picking up local garbage for a screw). How anyone on an african passport can even get a visa is mind boggling. So far, several times heard offers of marijuana along the streets from characters looking like Thais or neighboring country folks.

I worked as professional expat on resource projects in Bulgaria, Mongolia, Kazakhstan and PNG: much the same jealousy was visible there.

What would be the likelihood for the type or perpetual tourist / perpetual traveler to waste time and compete with local residents for a few bucks? Why harass a retired cop from US or any other person with sufficient funds with accusations of illegal work in Thailand?

I understand that ability of "thinking white" is a rarity in developing countries as Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia or Vietnam. Could a competent advisors from international bodies be engaged before starting "knee jerk reaction" as it was described?

Look at condo advertising: sections from human rights quoted to encourage foreign investment.

If we wait and reduce the usual spending with continual explanation to all local shop owners about loss of trust, how loud would be the outcry to local public media? If every real estate developer who obviously paid huge bribes to local & central government officials start asking their "contacts in high places" to cut the crap, how fast this new government would start to listen? I am not interested in being "politically correct" to please or care about opinions from poliana's or other goody-goody two shoes. This is reality and how it looks to me as one of expats. I do believe that we are now in the same boat and should act ASAP.

[balo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yes i wonder that myself.

Im currently on my 3rd back to back 2-entry tourist visa. In 1week i have to get the 30day extension from chiangmai immigration office. Then a month later i have to cross the border, get back in thailand to activate my 2nd entry of my tourist visa.
Will they ask questions? Is yes and they want to have me proof that im a tourist. What about not having much money in my bank. I work online and i don't work for any company, but i make enough on my own to live in cm.
I always went to mae sai by land for activating my entries, should i change this and go by air or is this not needed ?

Thank you

I think you should consider a non immigrant ED visa , it will cost you 20k and you don't have to worry about immigration , they are looking for too many tourist visa stamps , if they see a non immigrant visa they will leave you alone.

[mariner16]

Having read 15 pages of this thread has prompted me to go through my two passports and do some calculations. First ever entry to Thailand in September 2010, now up to 28 entries all through Suvarnabhumi Airport, 9 in UK passport all say Visa Class and a handwritten 30 with matching date stamps, the 19 in NZ passport say Visa Class APEC and date stamps for 90 days. From memory I have not had a single question directed at me from the immigration official the other side of the desk, just a smile, check of the passport, sound of stamping and a thank you as my passport is handed back, all very professional, and I really don't envisage that changing.

However it would seem at least some posters here think I am abusing the system. Like some others who have written on this thread I am offshore oil and gas, 42 day rotation, I have stayed maximum of 35 days (on the NZ passport obviously) and minimum of 0 days, (flew in cleared immigration, met the wife as she got out of a taxi and cleared off on holiday to Australia), 16 of the 28 stays in Bangkok have been 10 days or less, total days in Bangkok 319, or average of 88 per year. Stayed in hotels initially, rented an apartment for two years and brought a townhouse (in her name) 14 months ago, just changed the 12 month old car for another new one, and basically have settled down in Bangkok with every intention of staying long term. Met my wife through mutual friends in 2010 in Singapore, where I was renting an apartment (I had left the UK after the death of my wife from cancer), didn't seem to make much sense staying in Singapore and anyway I find Bangkok is like the Singapore I remember from 20 years ago. I work for a Singapore company, monthly salary is deposited in UK bank account, extras from consultancy work in Malaysia/Indonesia/Vietnam/China while I am on leave goes to K Bank account in Bangkok. Additional income from UK occupational pension which started paying out at 60 plus rental income from my house in UK goes to UK bank account, my tax accountant files my tax returns in UK and have had my P85 accepted by HMRC, Bank/HMRC etc. all write to my Bangkok address, various UK magazines are delivered there, basically I live there but do not own it (nor wish to own it).

I should add that we married two years ago in Bangkok, and my wife is employed as a Sales Manager by a large Thai insurance company. She has a 23 year old married daughter and a 13 year old son presently at a Thai boarding school, their Thai father not involved in her life or theirs. She has one sister also living in Bangkok, rest of her family is three hours drive away and she sees nothing of them, she left home at 13 came to Bangkok and washed dishes while attending night school, self taught English and is the most focussed, honest and basically nice person I have ever been involved with, she has her own apartment now rented out and yes, no doubt I have made her life easier and have been happy to do so in exchange for the easy way my life is now looked after.

So you guys tell me, am I resident in Thailand or am I a tourist, or am I a business traveller ? Yes you could say I should go and get an extension based on marriage or retirement, and I did say to her last night on the phone to start getting the paperwork together for the marriage extension, (she is a very able administrator), but the point is I have been travelling in and out for three and a half years without so much of a murmur at the premium lane, is this going to change ?, I would be very surprised if it did.

[stevenl]

Having read 15 pages of this thread has prompted me to go through my two passports and do some calculations. First ever entry to Thailand in September 2010, now up to 28 entries all through Suvarnabhumi Airport, 9 in UK passport all say Visa Class and a handwritten 30 with matching date stamps, the 19 in NZ passport say Visa Class APEC and date stamps for 90 days. From memory I have not had a single question directed at me from the immigration official the other side of the desk, just a smile, check of the passport, sound of stamping and a thank you as my passport is handed back, all very professional, and I really don't envisage that changing.

However it would seem at least some posters here think I am abusing the system. Like some others who have written on this thread I am offshore oil and gas, 42 day rotation, I have stayed maximum of 35 days (on the NZ passport obviously) and minimum of 0 days, (flew in cleared immigration, met the wife as she got out of a taxi and cleared off on holiday to Australia), 16 of the 28 stays in Bangkok have been 10 days or less, total days in Bangkok 319, or average of 88 per year. Stayed in hotels initially, rented an apartment for two years and brought a townhouse (in her name) 14 months ago, just changed the 12 month old car for another new one, and basically have settled down in Bangkok with every intention of staying long term. Met my wife through mutual friends in 2010 in Singapore, where I was renting an apartment (I had left the UK after the death of my wife from cancer), didn't seem to make much sense staying in Singapore and anyway I find Bangkok is like the Singapore I remember from 20 years ago. I work for a Singapore company, monthly salary is deposited in UK bank account, extras from consultancy work in Malaysia/Indonesia/Vietnam/China while I am on leave goes to K Bank account in Bangkok. Additional income from UK occupational pension which started paying out at 60 plus rental income from my house in UK goes to UK bank account, my tax accountant files my tax returns in UK and have had my P85 accepted by HMRC, Bank/HMRC etc. all write to my Bangkok address, various UK magazines are delivered there, basically I live there but do not own it (nor wish to own it).

I should add that we married two years ago in Bangkok, and my wife is employed as a Sales Manager by a large Thai insurance company. She has a 23 year old married daughter and a 13 year old son presently at a Thai boarding school, their Thai father not involved in her life or theirs. She has one sister also living in Bangkok, rest of her family is three hours drive away and she sees nothing of them, she left home at 13 came to Bangkok and washed dishes while attending night school, self taught English and is the most focussed, honest and basically nice person I have ever been involved with, she has her own apartment now rented out and yes, no doubt I have made her life easier and have been happy to do so in exchange for the easy way my life is now looked after.

So you guys tell me, am I resident in Thailand or am I a tourist, or am I a business traveller ? Yes you could say I should go and get an extension based on marriage or retirement, and I did say to her last night on the phone to start getting the paperwork together for the marriage extension, (she is a very able administrator), but the point is I have been travelling in and out for three and a half years without so much of a murmur at the premium lane, is this going to change ?, I would be very surprised if it did.

I don't expect it to change for you.

Yes, IMO you are a resident here and IMO would be better of with a non-immigrant visa.

Edited May 18, 2014 by stevenl

[Soutpeel]

Having read 15 pages of this thread has prompted me to go through my two passports and do some calculations. First ever entry to Thailand in September 2010, now up to 28 entries all through Suvarnabhumi Airport, 9 in UK passport all say Visa Class and a handwritten 30 with matching date stamps, the 19 in NZ passport say Visa Class APEC and date stamps for 90 days. From memory I have not had a single question directed at me from the immigration official the other side of the desk, just a smile, check of the passport, sound of stamping and a thank you as my passport is handed back, all very professional, and I really don't envisage that changing.

However it would seem at least some posters here think I am abusing the system. Like some others who have written on this thread I am offshore oil and gas, 42 day rotation, I have stayed maximum of 35 days (on the NZ passport obviously) and minimum of 0 days, (flew in cleared immigration, met the wife as she got out of a taxi and cleared off on holiday to Australia), 16 of the 28 stays in Bangkok have been 10 days or less, total days in Bangkok 319, or average of 88 per year. Stayed in hotels initially, rented an apartment for two years and brought a townhouse (in her name) 14 months ago, just changed the 12 month old car for another new one, and basically have settled down in Bangkok with every intention of staying long term. Met my wife through mutual friends in 2010 in Singapore, where I was renting an apartment (I had left the UK after the death of my wife from cancer), didn't seem to make much sense staying in Singapore and anyway I find Bangkok is like the Singapore I remember from 20 years ago. I work for a Singapore company, monthly salary is deposited in UK bank account, extras from consultancy work in Malaysia/Indonesia/Vietnam/China while I am on leave goes to K Bank account in Bangkok. Additional income from UK occupational pension which started paying out at 60 plus rental income from my house in UK goes to UK bank account, my tax accountant files my tax returns in UK and have had my P85 accepted by HMRC, Bank/HMRC etc. all write to my Bangkok address, various UK magazines are delivered there, basically I live there but do not own it (nor wish to own it).

I should add that we married two years ago in Bangkok, and my wife is employed as a Sales Manager by a large Thai insurance company. She has a 23 year old married daughter and a 13 year old son presently at a Thai boarding school, their Thai father not involved in her life or theirs. She has one sister also living in Bangkok, rest of her family is three hours drive away and she sees nothing of them, she left home at 13 came to Bangkok and washed dishes while attending night school, self taught English and is the most focussed, honest and basically nice person I have ever been involved with, she has her own apartment now rented out and yes, no doubt I have made her life easier and have been happy to do so in exchange for the easy way my life is now looked after.

So you guys tell me, am I resident in Thailand or am I a tourist, or am I a business traveller ? Yes you could say I should go and get an extension based on marriage or retirement, and I did say to her last night on the phone to start getting the paperwork together for the marriage extension, (she is a very able administrator), but the point is I have been travelling in and out for three and a half years without so much of a murmur at the premium lane, is this going to change ?, I would be very surprised if it did.

I should add that we married two years ago in Bangkok

and this is the reason for you spending time in Thailand your spending time with your wife....your legally married to a Thai national and the "marriage visa" is the appropriate visa in the eyes of immigration for you, and one supposes based on what you have written you will have absolutely no problem meeting the financial requirements for the extension, and fact your working rotation means you don't have to do 90 day reporting either...

if you take what I think the intent of what immigration is saying in this "crackdown"....they are telling you to get the proper visa for your circumstances, and in your case the proper visa is the "married" visa...

[Tomtomtom69]

Also russian goverment now crazy nervous to all challenges, because of ukrainian crisis and western sanctions, and try to reply to all chalenges - can we wait an escallation? Dont know about Thailand, but in London russians are the first place property buyers, and Thailand is one of the main russians tourist destinations. Anybody in Thai goverment thought about this? Many tourists also come because of "it was like was". For examle when we lived on Phuket for a year 5 our friends familys visited Thailand as guests just because we lived there on a long stay term. How many ppl came to Thailand after visiting our web site, "following advertisement" i don't know, but much more sure. Tourism is a pyramide and this law is attempt to take off lowest brick.

On what grounds were you living on Phiket for a year? On what ground did you get the extension of stay? Irregardless you would still be more than welcome in Thailand. Unless you are saying you stayed without a permission to stay long time in Thailand, for instance abusing visas or visa exempt entries.

You think I would be allowed to live in Russia, the US or most other countries for a year or longer just because I'd like to and can support myself. Fat chance.

On Phuket we came with 3month tourist visa we get on Penang. Then we got 3 month medical visa, because my wife was pregnant, the rest 5 stamps was in Ranong border runs. Then we left to Bali for a month, an then propably again 2-3 stamps. Border runs is not good idea with a small child of course we prefer to extend them on Phuket, but moving to Malaysia for afew days even 1 time instead of 3 border runs more stress - so we did border runs.

Now we are in Pattaya. We had tickets to Kuala Lumpur where we was going to make 3 month visa in March, but in KL embassy was 100% declinein March. Time to go to Penang we didn;t have because bought tickets just for a couple days. Before us embassy in KL visited our more wealthy friends and got decline, so we even not decide to try to get visa - made just border run to KL - this is the only reason we have stamps not tourist visa now. If not this accident in KL with 100% decline, may be we wasn't worry so much - of course visa, more comfortable then then 3 border runs.

What's with Russians all going to Malaysia for visa runs? it's been well reported that of the embassies and consulates in the region, Malaysia (along with Singapore) has become one of the toughest countries to secure a Thai tourist visa. This partly stems from the big stolen visa sticker fiasco that happened a little while ago in Malaysia.

Next time go to Vientiane or Savannakhet in Laos, or perhaps try Bali in Indonesia or even Yangon, Myanmar. Yangon for some strange reason sees relatively few foreigners apply for Thai visas and they are friendly there.

[John1thru10]

These are the important points getting buried and belittled in all the apologists attempts to deny what's happening:

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run.”

Note that the operative there is 'suspect' - that means no proof whatsoever is required for one to be well affected at the whim of any agent they encounter.

One person's account:

"This almost happened to me this week. I did about 4 visa runs to Myanmar, when I first came to Thailand 4 years ago as a tourist. Since then, I been working as a teacher, and being a good boy. I finally went home for a visit, and when I returned they saw those stamps from 4 years ago, and they started talking about not letting me enter at the BKK airport. So luckily I had my work permit, which did not seem too impressed with, until I showed pay stubs, my work contacts etc. I was lucky I had all those documents with me."

Note that this person's back-to-backs were 4 years earlier.
___

Here is another person's account here:

"They refused to let me back in. I was dressed well, clean shaven, very presentable and polite. My papers were in order . But regardless, the interrogation began. And it wasn't pleasant. They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had. (I had about 6000 bht with me), etc.etc., This went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no. Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!
Oh they wanted to see money, a lot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

I've had this same experience recently, entering after being away for 7 months. The time in between entrances is not considered by many agents. Many people have tried to say 'oh boo hoo, they questioned you, get over it.' What I experienced wasn't calmly being asked for information. It was extremely hostile and accusatory, without any chance to politely answer the questions. I've never worked in Thailand, and could have explained this easily. The agent simply didn't want to believe me.

Regarding: "Get a proper visa" - I can confirm, and several others here as well (not to mention any visa service you might like to call for yourself) that if you have 'too many' tourist visas from the past, regardless of date of distance between them, then you will be refused. At this point, that means 2 or 3 from the past, maximum. Sometimes 1 or 2 at some consulates. This is policy now over the last 2 years at all consulates surrounding Thailand, even those furthest away. Only in your home country now can you get another tourist visa, and there are hints that this is going to greatly tighten now as well, in some statements.

Unfortunately, as real as these accounts are recently, you do have to scour to find them, because so many people are angrily trying to bury them in denials, simply for the purpose of proving that their outdated knowledge of Thailand trumps the real life experience of anyone else. This is a common attitude on TV, that the old timers will belittle anyone else, and eventually revert to statements like "You deserve it!" in response.

But be smart, and don't let the old timers confuse you. It has little to do with whether you are working here or not. If any agent even "suspects" you are (or, for that matter, simply doesn't like you for whatever emotional reason that particular day), you can easily be impacted greatly by this new spirit. This is more political, than emergency measures to combat the 1% unemployment that Thailand is facing. It's only an 'emergency' to an extremist, and the fact that the PM was forced to flee office just 2 days before this started, is impossible for a thinking person to discount.

[Tomtomtom69]

This crackdown and immigration asking questions isn't new. Previously it depended on your nationality, with nationals of some countries almost ALWAYS questioned, while others never or rarely questioned.

Let me give you some examples:

In December 2012 I traveled from Kunming to Bangkok, met a nice Chinese minority Dai guy from Dehong in Yunnan province on the plane, on a 4 day business trip to purchase some goods for his agricultural business back in Mangshi. He had never been to Thailand before and was held up at immigration for a while whilst they asked him for various documents. Immigration took at least 10 minutes to process him and I was worried he would be refused, but no idea why. He was let through in the end but had to produce money, a return ticket and write down a proper hotel address before being let through. He called me later to inform me what had happened.

In March 2013 I came back from Kolkata, India on a THAI flight, arrival time about 6.10am at Suvarnabhumi. On that flight was an Indian passenger, with a multitude of either VOA or tourist visas in his passport (Indians aren't eligible for visa-free entry). A Thai immigration officer came up to him and became very upset, almost to the point of crying as she repeated to herself (in Thai...which he probably didn't understand): "Why are you here again?! Why, why, why?!" as she flicked through his passport not happy. He was given a bit of a grilling towards which he barely reacted, but I think after a few minutes was let through. I was let through in seconds as I usually am and was at baggage claim long before he showed up even though I was behind him in the queue although I think I saw him show up at the baggage carousel sometime later (bags were coming out pretty slowly that day).

And he's not the only one on that flight with such travel movements. I went to Kolkata twice last year. The guy I sat next to on my outbound flight in March showed up on EVERY subsequent flight I was on, the return flight 6 days later and the 2 flights two months later to the point it became creepy. It seems this guy travels to Bangkok for 3-5 days to buy stuff, spends a similar amount of time back in Kolkata, then returns to Bangkok to do more of the same. Since the THAI flight is a night flight, he has to deal with sleep disruption twice a week but by the looks of it he's used to it and doesn't bat an eyelid. He must have a platinum card by now given the number of miles he travels each year.

I'm wondering how he will fare with all these changes (or should I say enforcement) as he is clearly coming and going all the time, though he seems like a legitimate trader purchasing clothing, electronics etc. and selling tea in Bangkok, though without an appropriate visa he could be in for some serious trouble.

In December last year saw an African man arriving from somewhere (possibly Singapore) the only African guy in the immigration hall and predictably, a Thai immigration officer spotted him immediately and said quite loudly: "you have to see the doctor!" probably implying the need to show a yellow fever certificate. The guy wasn't allowed to speak, basically he was forced to "see a doctor" before being processed.

Saw a Papua New Guinean at immigration also in December I think a few days before the previous incident I just described. He had just arrived from Singapore and was standing at immigration for a long time - and forced to produce details of the conference he was attending, hotel bookings, return ticket and other documents before they processed him and stamped his passport. It looked like they were puzzled and was the first time they had ever processed someone from that country.

Now that kind of scrutiny could be applied to all, or at least a great many travelers from all sorts of countries, even though a few target nationalities have been mentioned for extra scrutiny.