Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Jiu-Jitsu]

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

Stop with the panic...and with the amount of money that you spend. Explain all, calmly, to the officer if questioned....but better still...get a Tourist Visa, at the very least.

The fact is that no one has bothered you at all to date. Yet here you are, ranting, as if someone has taken your toys away. Your stays show you to be a likely tourist.

[Maestro]

Removed posts with unfounded allegations of corruption, and the replies to them.

[Triglav]

Easy to fake, yes .. but currently you don't need one at all. It would deter some of the less "hard-core" illegal workers. Better than nothing and easy.

ED crackdowns are in the pipeline, I suppose. Immigration isn't that stupid, it takes like one hour to figure out all the common the loopholes. They've just tolerated it until now. I reckon the trigger now is the large amount of complaints due to the Russian invasion of last few years.

I think the immigration police simply don't have the manpower to go door to door and the local police can't really be arsed to do anything.

All true, it's just a shame that all of this makes us overly-crafty-with-visa-rules types feel like a target of witch hunt. This interview seems to point that an awful lot is left to the officers' discretion, so the real effect will depend on how lenient, unofficially, will be the enforcement.

I think on a more global scale this is one of the signs of TH moving from an everything-goes kind of system when it came to foreigners, to a more regulated one.

[rebelplatoon]

Fingerprinting, proof of travel plans, proof of income, 90 day check in, crowds at immigration, ability to come and check your place of residence, huge visa sums. Has anyone figured it out yet?

[DrTuner]

Fingerprinting, proof of travel plans, proof of income, 90 day check in, crowds at immigration, ability to come and check your place of residence, huge visa sums. Has anyone figured it out yet?

Just wait until they start truly enforcing the section 37, part 2 of the immigration act:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the

following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the

Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law

concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the

law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason

that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official

of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty

– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not

located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the

police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such

alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time

of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the

competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as

possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is

an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as

prescribed by the Director General.

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a

letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the

Director General .

1 and 5 are currently enforced, 2-4 haphazardly. So how about being tracked in real-time, like a collared criminal on probabation, eh ?

I suspect the law dates back from the times of Phibun and his anti-Chinese stance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaek_Phibunsongkhram#Prime_Minister_of_Thailand

[Maestro]

Removed many off-topic and other troll posts. This is an important and serious topic, limited to immigration's latest effort to curb illegal work in Thailand by limiting visa-exempt entries to travellers who can show that they are visiting the country for the purpose of tourism, not for work. Please let us keep it clean of irrelevant comments.

[MoTheo]

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

Stop with the panic...and with the amount of money that you spend. Explain all, calmly, to the officer if questioned....but better still...get a Tourist Visa, at the very least.

The fact is that no one has bothered you at all to date. Yet here you are, ranting, as if someone has taken your toys away. Your stays show you to be a likely tourist.

Well i dont think im ranting, not at all in fact, but as i see it i have a problem. Yes i could get the Tourist Visa, triple entry...but the thing is i never know how long i stay. The stamps and the visa will be in my passport and that alone i think will make a lot of problems for me i'm afraid. No way in hell i like to have a charge of illegal working on my head or for that matter a travel ban...

[Yahooka]

“The crackdown is all about preventing foreigners from using visa-exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand and work,” Gen Pharnu said.

So if Im using visa-excemptions just to stay in Thailand I`ll be fine then ..........................

[Maestro]

Just wait until they start truly enforcing the section 37, part 2 of the immigration act:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the

following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the

Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law

concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the

law concerned.

...

1 and 5 are currently enforced, 2-4 haphazardly. So how about being tracked in real-time, like a collared criminal on probabation, eh ?

I suspect the law dates back from the times of Phibun and his anti-Chinese stance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaek_Phibunsongkhram#Prime_Minister_of_Thailand

It is indeed Section 37(1) of the Immigration Act that the immigration office is trying to enforce more strictly now. Section 37(3) and (4) does not enter into the discussion here, as indicated by the text "The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as

prescribed by the Director General" in Section 37. Speculation about a possible stricter enforcement of Section 37(2) would be off topic here but can be made a new topic if and when it should happen.

Your suspicion that the current Immigration Act, to which you gave a link, dates back to the time of Phibun is totally unfounded. The Immigration Act was promulgated in 1979, and Phibun was Prime Minister from 1938 to 1944 and from 1948 to 1957 according to the information on the Wikipedia page to which you also gave a link.

[elzach]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

Edited May 16, 2014 by elzach

[ukrules]

“The crackdown is all about preventing foreigners from using visa-exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand and work,” Gen Pharnu said.

So if Im using visa-excemptions just to stay in Thailand I`ll be fine then ..........................

It's clear they are targeting people using tourist visas as well. This will affect tens of thousands of people.

Also this August 12th date appears to be forgotten about as people are being scrutinised already, even if they are traveling on a tourist visa based on some of the reports in the closed thread.

Quote from Tanis in the closed thread :

Well I just left Thailand the other day and I had an interesting encounter at immigration at Suvarnabhumi. My wife (Filipina and who had worked in Thailand for 9 years) and I queued up in the same line and she went through with no problems whatsoever. For 25 minutes (I counted) they scrutinized every page of American passport like I was some sort of criminal. They did not know what to do with me since I had a number of tourist/border visas in addition to my many expired non-immigrant b visas. It should be noted that these two were probably new since they wore yellow signs around their necks stating that there were "trainee". Their frustration with me grew every time I said "nit noy pasa Thai" even though I understood them quite well. They then called over their supervisor who took me over to her desk. She then proceeded to ask me a number of questions about my stay in Thailand and more specifically if It was currently working in Thailand. I kept my answers short and simple: no, I am not working. my contract expired in Feb and I had done 3 border runs since then It should be noted that I do have a number of border runs/tourist visa over the years for various of reasons in additions to my non imm b visas. She finally gave up and waved me through. Thankfully I came early because I spent 45 minutes at immigration. gah

This is going to be worse than when they were calculating how many days were spent in Thailand during the previous 180 days when that farcial rule was being used.

[krismagi]

I lived in Thailand for 2 years and I abused the system by getting a 30 day visa on arrival and then flying out every time I had to renew. I never overstayed. This was just plain wrong and now that I am back in the UK, I am wondering why I lived that sort of life. I was not working in Thailand but I was doing some business in Hong Kong and Singapore on behalf of a UK company. That was wrong too.

I actually applaud the Immigration department for this initiative and I would ask those contributors who come from a Western country - what is your country's attitude towards (a) getting the right visa and ( working illegally? The UK is a nightmare when it comes to obtaining a long stay visa and certainly if you are working illegally and get caught then you face a hefty fine and/or imprisonment.

I doubt that I will return other than as a visitor on holiday, will obtain a visa from Hull before I fly and also get a new passport and ditch the old one with all those fly in visa runs. Apart from which - how much did it cost me?

Good luck to everyone who lives legally in Thailand - its a great country (every country I have ever lived in has its own set of problems, nowhere is perfect) and I made a lot of great Thai friends whilst I lived there.

Edited May 16, 2014 by krismagi

[Squeegee]

By enforcing the regulations as they are doing they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater: for instance, with the under 50s, offshore workers, certain travellers, folks from other developing countries or teachers who are not necessarily trying to work illegally.

I highly doubt the vast majority of people being effected by this in various ways and to numerous extents are really criminals, 'poor quality' people or are remotely trying to 'play' the system. Many of these people are just doing what they can within a system that is unaccommodating, lacking, faulty or corrupt and some of them have more than likely been benefiting Thailand way beyond the price of a thousand baht visa. See dozens of posts in various related topics for examples of why a teacher might spend periods of time working illegally through no fault of their own, for instance.

If people's lives are to change without notice, if they are to be left stranded outside a border, if they are to be questioned, accused, blacklisted, deported or detained....

It is Thai Immigration and every one of their officials who are most responsible and should be held most to blame, not just for the sure inconvenience, the difficulty and indeed even probable suffering for some people due to their utterly unprofessional introduction of actually enforcing their own law, but also those same Thai Immigration officials should look to themsleves and/or their colleagues for being most responsible in allowing things to have got to this point at all.

Perhaps they can also be paid ABOVE THE TABLE to interrogate each other as to why they now might think it's appropriate not to allow for a period of grace so everybody can make the changes necessary for us all to live our lives as best as we possibly can.

PS. I actually totally condone this enforcement, if implemented better.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Squeegee

[MoTheo]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

People like me...Im far from old enough for a retirement visa, i'm not married to a thai, i don't have a company..

I come here from time to time, i use money, i return home to work from time to time, spend most of my time in my home country working and return to Thailand when i'm between jobs & waiting for new job.

In the future i see my self as unwanted in Thailand..

[Mr Tom]

Do many people come to Thailand to find jobs? or are they equally concerned with people that live here and work remotely for a company in a different country?

[DrTuner]

Do many people come to Thailand to find jobs? or are they equally concerned with people that live here and work remotely for a company in a different country?

I think the problem that triggered this was foreigners openly working in the tourist industry without the correct paperwork, such as tour agencies, dive shops, restaurants, real estate, etc. Locals got fed up.

[White Tiger]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

I'm sure you're right and that many Thais have very little idea of how the opening of the AEC is going to impact their country. Cross border freedom of movement of ASEAN member country workers is one of the things that will be enabled.

Further down the road, if the AEC follows the path of the European Union, you might get a common currency. Can you imagine that in Thailand - an ASEAN central bank dictating the country's finances?

Perhaps the ASEAN area would eventually decide to introduce its own form of Schengen Visa?

It wouldn't surprise me if Thailand pulls out of ASEAN once it sees how deep the changes will run.

Edited May 16, 2014 by White Tiger

[Pralaad]

Do many people come to Thailand to find jobs? or are they equally concerned with people that live here and work remotely for a company in a different country?

I think the problem that triggered this was foreigners openly working in the tourist industry without the correct paperwork, such as tour agencies, dive shops, restaurants, real estate, etc. Locals got fed up.

This was only in Phuket where locals are the biggest crooks in the country

[Tycoon]

“Thailand is open to all tourists,” Gen Pharnu said, “but we will not allow illegal workers. If you want to work here please do the right thing. Apply for a business visa and live here legally.”

Not all business are or have 2 million and/or need 4 Thai employees.

How many 1 man businesses are there here, now operating without a workpermit and/or business visa?

Guess most of them have other visa anyway, so therefore will not impact them yet.

Yes, these 1 man-businesses won't make Thailand much richer, but they do no harm also. Just not given the oppertunity to run the business legal.

Are you nuts ? Illegal working is Illegal working !!! get it?

Simple you want to work, get a work permit.

Pay tax and follow the rules.

This will clean a lot of tourist scum bags out.

I applauded this and welcome it as a step in the right direction

[Tycoon]

Do many people come to Thailand to find jobs? or are they equally concerned with people that live here and work remotely for a company in a different country?

short answer? Yes

[Tycoon]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

People like me...Im far from old enough for a retirement visa, i'm not married to a thai, i don't have a company..

I come here from time to time, i use money, i return home to work from time to time, spend most of my time in my home country working and return to Thailand when i'm between jobs & waiting for new job.

In the future i see my self as unwanted in Thailand..

You have no problem, just don't work here without a permit.

And have your holiday set up as a holiday.

[jspill]

I actually applaud the Immigration department for this initiative and I would ask those contributors who come from a Western country - what is your country's attitude towards (a) getting the right visa and ( working illegally? The UK is a nightmare when it comes to obtaining a long stay visa and certainly if you are working illegally and get caught then you face a hefty fine and/or imprisonment.

However, once in the UK there is a process of naturalisation, you can become a British citizen. You have free healthcare and welfare support. You don't have to report every 90 days to an embassy which even a married westerner with a Thai family in Thailand has to do, after decades living here and contributing to the Thai economy.

[White Tiger]

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, ...... I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run......

What are you to do? Apply for a Tourist Visa in your home country before you come, instead of relying on the visa on arrival, or the visa exemption route.

If your application for a Tourist Visa is refused, then take that as a good sign that you would be refused entry if you tried to enter the country on the visa exemption route, or the visa on arrival route.

If your application for a Tourist Visa is accepted, then no problems for you.

[Thai at Heart]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run, he said.

People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

This almost happened to me this week. I did about 4 visa runs to Myanmar, when I first came to Thailand 4 years ago as a tourist. Since then, I been working as a teacher, and being a good boy. I finally went home for a visit, and when I returned they saw those stamps from 4 years ago, and they started talking about not letting me enter at the BKK airport. So luckily I had my work permit, which did not seem too impressed with, until I showed pay stubs, my work contacts etc. I was lucky I had all those documents with me.

They are looking at visas from 4 years ago? God forbid anyone backpacks for a few years.

[paz]

Are you nuts ? Illegal working is Illegal working !!! get it?

Simple you want to work, get a work permit.

Pay tax and follow the rules.

This will clean a lot of tourist scum bags out.

I applauded this and welcome it as a step in the right direction

Tourists? Or illegal workers? Make your mind.

[John1thru10]

Here's the problem that I think a lot of people are going to start experiencing. And, I experienced this myself on May 8 when I entered through Sawanabhumi. I posted this at the time, and many posters immediately responded with statements that I'd been 'going around the law', but in fact that isn't true at all. And I suspect many border officials are going to make the same mistaken assumption.

Many people (including Thai officials) make big assumptions about what a 'job' is, based on their own limited experience of what it means to be employed. They assume either you are notably wealthy (and can show a huge bank account), or else you are behind the same desk for 11 months a year. And if you can't show one of those 2 extremes it means you MUST be working illegally in Thailand.

I have never worked a day in Thailand. But have been in BKK quite a lot of time over the last 5 years. I am a touring performer (in Europe) and I have been outside of Thailand each year touring, usually 3-4 months at a time. Or sometimes 1 month out, 3 months back...3 months out, 2 months back, etc. It's not a regular schedule, and there is no specific 'boss' or 'company' that I work for. I add that, because I think someone out there will be able to relate somehow. An 'unconventional' job, basically.

But starting a year ago, I was refused any more tourist visas in neighboring SE Asian countries. My passport is like a phone book of world traveling, mostly in Europe. But European entrance/exit stamps are small : 6-8 per page for each country. Any border crossing in Thailand takes a full page, however. So it is visually misleading at first glance. And let's be honest, Thai officials DO tend to go by visual first impressions more often than meticulous checking of things. I'm sorry, it just seems to be true. There are certainly far more entrances/exits to other countries than Thailand, but Thai movements (as well as Laos, Cambodia) take up FAR more space. So what you're dealing with at that point isn't the actual dates, or how often one is well outside of Thailand, but just 'You come here many times'. THAT is what is not addressed at all in these official statements, but is a real reality on the ground.

So, when I entered on May 8 at Sawanabhumi, for a 30 day exemption - after being well outside of Asia for 7 MONTHS - I found myself being grilled by a very angry border agent. She kept asking 'Why you come Thailand! Why you here!'. Obviously she believed I was working illegally. I was polite and well dressed, I'll point out. I tried to point out also that I'd been outside of Thailand for 7 months, but she didn't care. I added "I never work in Thailand", but she didn't care. She then found a mention of a 1 month overstay from 2.5 years ago, and started demanding 'Why you overstay! You overstay!' I can't tell you how hostile this agent was, compared to anything I've ever experienced in Thailand before. I thought she wasn't gonna let me in, and it was very frightening.

Before firing off statements about how 'easy' it is to get a longer visa, or how I was attempting to do something wrong - stop to think about it all for a moment. I had followed the law. This agent didn't take any time to examine how often I am OUT of Thailand, and only cared about how many times I was IN Thailand - not accounting for time in between; all visual first impressions, and then had no intention of listening to me as a person. THIS is what I suspect a lot of people are going to start experiencing now, and people should be more than well prepared for this. I also suspect that any time of overstay, even a few days, may start being treated as a capital offense.

[DrTuner]

I actually applaud the Immigration department for this initiative and I would ask those contributors who come from a Western country - what is your country's attitude towards (a) getting the right visa and ( working illegally? The UK is a nightmare when it comes to obtaining a long stay visa and certainly if you are working illegally and get caught then you face a hefty fine and/or imprisonment.

However, once in the UK there is a process of naturalisation, you can become a British citizen. You have free healthcare and welfare support. You don't have to report every 90 days to an embassy which even a married westerner with a Thai family in Thailand has to do, after decades living here and contributing to the Thai economy.

The same process exists here in Thailand too. The largest hurdle is the points system which in order to pass through, you have to have a pretty good income from a job in Thailand.

[Mr Tom]

Seems like they're kinda just robbing themselves of money not selling a longer-stay tourist visa (temporary residents). I'm also curious to what the average amount collected in taxes is per person in Thailand per year, do you think people would pay that for a visa? Unfortunately I think they'll be kicking the people out that spend the most money in Thailand with the leaches.

[hgma]

I suspect this is part of an internal immigration clean-up as well.

remember,corrupting immigration officers is 'impossible' so in order to get a grip on a cult at bordercrossings where scores of people arrive in special visa run coaches to flock the border posts, passports and money changing hands quickly and a murky entry policy are created where immigration has de facto no controle over,is partly to blame for this clean up.

And i must say, public face is saved by targetting illegal WORKING runners.

The rest is history in no time.

[DKNY77]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.