Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Soutpeel]

Next we will be getting 'if it wasn't for us Thailand would fall into a heap economically'

Think we have had a few of these already on this thread and a few other related threads..

[a99az]

Don't panic ? They said if they SUSPECT you are working in Thailand (even if it is not true) they might deport you. Without evidence ?

They SUSPECT. You maybe are coming here to do some scuba diving, training Muay Thai or just enjoying the weather and Thai massage, but you have come too many times, so they suspect you are working and bye bye ....see you again in 5 years ...maybe...

They are going to sc.. it ! You can't deport a people because you suspect or you think he might be working...come on....

everything on the mood of the immigration officier....

"You can't deport a people because you suspect or you think he might be working"

Really! when you have been here more than a few days you will see just how wrong you can be.

[Soutpeel]

Don't panic ? They said if they SUSPECT you are working in Thailand (even if it is not true) they might deport you. Without evidence ?

They SUSPECT. You maybe are coming here to do some scuba diving, training Muay Thai or just enjoying the weather and Thai massage, but you have come too many times, so they suspect you are working and bye bye ....see you again in 5 years ...maybe...

They are going to sc.. it ! You can't deport a people because you suspect or you think he might be working...come on....

everything on the mood of the immigration officier....

"You can't deport a people because you suspect or you think he might be working"

Really! when you have been here more than a few days you will see just how wrong you can be.

of course you can be deported, as non citizen or PR of a country, if an immigration dept/official feels your are not complying with your conditions of visa, extension of stay etc. you can be removed from the country, it not your right to be in country.

The point being you have no legal right of abode, your allowed in as a guest, and like all guests at some point they will eventually need to leave and go home..

[alphaflight]

I liked the way it was a week ago. This statement basically reverts everything back to the same way it was in the first place. Nothing will change; The documents that they are now asking for are very easy to obtain, and always have been. Travel agencies sell fake documentation all the time. This will stop nothing, making even more money for the ones that run illegal practices.

[LivinLOS]

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

yes your correct...but have never seen any marketing from TAT saying "we want you to come here, spend money and we want you to live here as long as you want "

I think the thrust of TAT marketing is come here as a tourist , spend money, you have earned in another country, and go home again...

I think the thrust of TAT marketing is come here as a tourist , spend money, you have earned in another country, and go home earn more again

[John1thru10]

Ignoring the continual posts from long-time retirement folks here, about how 'easy' it is to get a legitimate visa etc, the real-life stories of people being accussed of 'working illegally' (when they clearly aren't) seem to indicate that a real crackdown is in place, but for reasons which are NOT being officially acknowledged.

I suspect this is more a cultural zeitgeist, and an expression of anger at farangs by a particular party: Someone is in charge who truly doesn't want farangs in Thailand anymore, and is flexing their muscle as part of the political unrest in the country. There is some real evidence for this also, and the 'working illegally' excuse comes just after other excuses were stated and retracted last week: missing planes, stolen passports, Russian crime, etc.

Unemployment in Thailand is currently somewhere close to 1%. That would not be the time when a government became 'officially' concerned about the matter.

I suspect, this is a new zeitgeist to get rid of any farang, starting with the easiest excuses first. It seems that most people here scolding others about how 'easy' it is to do it 'the right way' are posting from their armchairs about visa types which they haven't actually used in years: quoting an official statment from a website, basically.

If you are not on a retirement visa, and are on the ground planning to extend your visa, cross a border, etc. - you should be extremely careful at this time. The 'working illegally' thing is an excuse for something else, and you may very likely find yourself being accused of things which aren't true at all, and denied re-entrance. Be prepared: Thailand immigration is somehow going very right-wing, and over the months ahead there are going to be some very surprised farangs who probably often have never done anything wrong, left to fend for themselves, perhaps not even allowed to get their things from their short-term apartments, etc.

[ronthai]

Guess all the condominiums they keep on building one after an other can be put on hold.

Don't know about other cities, but in Pattaya it never stops.

There already was an almost 2 condo's per farang/Russian to fill the condo's, guess that is only going to get worse.

... and in the past Thailand so much wanted the Russians to come here. They could even fly in directly to Pattaya Airport and get a stamp.

I can still remember many negative topics about Thailand promoting for Russians. Well guess we where right.

Well the Chinese are next in line for Thailand holidays, with their growing middle class, maybe they can fill the gap.

Just sorry for all (well most) the people who will be deported and then also loose any belongings they have in Thailand.

[ronthai]

... and what is up with all the farangs here worring about taxes paid, which any "working" farangs don't, just because they can not get a real buisness visa and/or work-permit, due to 2 million and 4 employees.

Look around in Thailand. Every (well most) MOM and Pap shop, small Thai restaurant (no drinks/alcohol), road sellers, small Thai businesses,

are all non registered, because it saves then paying tax and they are left alone anyway, by police/gouvernment.

Just a guess, but that comes to how much percent of the Thai working force, 5-10% ?

[JB300]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

Why should there be one? Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

For a holiday and then to nick off. Not some sort of decfacto resident unless you front the big $$$ for either a Thailand elite whatsit or an investment visa.

Otherwise you contribute via working here.

So do away with the retirement visa altogether then?

I think the gripe most under 50s (I'm 48 & 1/4, not like I'm counting) have is that there's no mechanism to obtain the equivalent of the retirement visa even if they have the financial means to have retired, in the case of military personnel etc... May have "Officially" retired in their home country.

Edited May 17, 2014 by JB300

[LivinLOS]

... and what is up with all the farangs here worring about taxes paid, which any "working" farangs don't, just because they can not get a real buisness visa and/or work-permit, due to 2 million and 4 employees.

Look around in Thailand. Every (well most) MOM and Pap shop, small Thai restaurant (no drinks/alcohol), road sellers, small Thai businesses,

are all non registered, because it saves then paying tax and they are left alone anyway, by police/gouvernment.

Just a guess, but that comes to how much percent of the Thai working force, 5-10% ?

But surely it is not unexpected that Thailand only wants significant contributors ??

If someone is so poor they contribute what poor people on breadline earnings in a developing country do, of course they are not of interest..

[samran]

... and what is up with all the farangs here worring about taxes paid, which any "working" farangs don't, just because they can not get a real buisness visa and/or work-permit, due to 2 million and 4 employees.

Look around in Thailand. Every (well most) MOM and Pap shop, small Thai restaurant (no drinks/alcohol), road sellers, small Thai businesses,

are all non registered, because it saves then paying tax and they are left alone anyway, by police/gouvernment.

Just a guess, but that comes to how much percent of the Thai working force, 5-10% ?

And you've gone around and asked them if they are registered or if they are sole trader have you?

[Jay Sata]

Thailand is one of the few countries in the world that allows foreigners to abuse it's visa system,by clocking in and out on a regular basis to achieve permanent residence.

The visa run industry is unique to Thailand and it appears may be facing a serious decline.

[louse1953]

5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey.

What the ban for overstaying?

You only got it half right,to complete your first sentence,suspected of working illegally.Border runners better get their papers in order.

[Thai at Heart]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

Why should there be one? Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

I'm not saying anything. It is however a little unusual. These are precisely the type of people that the country should want.

[louse1953]

How can you deport someone who has not yet entered the country?

Or did I missed something...

Illegally trying to enter the country,paper work incorrect.

[roxnadz]

I suspect, this is a new zeitgeist to get rid of any farang, starting with the easiest excuses first. It seems that most people here scolding others about how 'easy' it is to do it 'the right way' are posting from their armchairs about visa types which they haven't actually used in years: quoting an official statment from a website, basically.

If you are not on a retirement visa, and are on the ground planning to extend your visa, cross a border, etc. - you should be extremely careful at this time. The 'working illegally' thing is an excuse for something else, and you may very likely find yourself being accused of things which aren't true at all, and denied re-entrance. Be prepared: Thailand immigration is somehow going very right-wing, and over the months ahead there are going to be some very surprised farangs who probably often have never done anything wrong, left to fend for themselves, perhaps not even allowed to get their things from their short-term apartments, etc.

Yeah, that's the feeling I am getting as well. Armchair quarterbacks are lauding these new changes thinking somehow that they will be unaffected forever...not stopping to think that nothing really is set in stone here and things can change at a whim...

If Thai immigration really are serious about enforcing these rules hard and fast, then they can expect people of all economic levels to go elsewhere...not just the penniless. It's not like Thailand is the cheapest place in the world to live. And it's not like tourists need Thailand more than Thailand needs them. Will Thailand fall apart financially? I doubt it, but they will suffer. Every time I go to Bangkok, Hua shin, and Chiang Mai, I see it. Xenophobic Thais can say whatever they want about how all farangs should go home, but when you see hardworking Thais work even harder because there isn't as much money coming in, well, the proof is right there. At the very least, it is a sensitive issue outside the regular rat traps like Pattaya and Phuket.

[louse1953]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run, he said.

People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

This almost happened to me this week. I did about 4 visa runs to Myanmar, when I first came to Thailand 4 years ago as a tourist. Since then, I been working as a teacher, and being a good boy. I finally went home for a visit, and when I returned they saw those stamps from 4 years ago, and they started talking about not letting me enter at the BKK airport. So luckily I had my work permit, which did not seem too impressed with, until I showed pay stubs, my work contacts etc. I was lucky I had all those documents with me.

So once you proved you were ligit,everything is ok.Its the rorters that are in strife.

[louse1953]

Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine, Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

You seem to be a no brainer,get a visa,only 1 for 2 months.Enjoy PI!

[Pdaz]

I know they aren't meant to start enforcing this at the airport till mid August.

Just my experience at arrival today. I'm working offshore on a 3/3 rota. I usually have a non immigrant visa but haven't had an oppotunity to renew it since last October so have beeb using visa waiver on arrival. Today was my 5th in a row in a fairly new passport. No mention from the woman officer. Just 30 stamp and away. Hopefully this will set any other offshore types arriving in the next few days at ease. I still intend to get another non-im next Month as I don't meed any hassle from immigration.

[louse1953]

Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine, Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

Stop with the panic...and with the amount of money that you spend. Explain all, calmly, to the officer if questioned....but better still...get a Tourist Visa, at the very least.

The fact is that no one has bothered you at all to date. Yet here you are, ranting, as if someone has taken your toys away. Your stays show you to be a likely tourist.

Well i dont think im ranting, not at all in fact, but as i see it i have a problem. Yes i could get the Tourist Visa, triple entry...but the thing is i never know how long i stay. The stamps and the visa will be in my passport and that alone i think will make a lot of problems for me i'm afraid. No way in hell i like to have a charge of illegal working on my head or for that matter a travel ban...

I thought you so cleverly solved your problem.Mabuhay PI.

[louse1953]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

Now if you used your grey matter you would get an OA visa.The only real committment is 800k in a bank,i did this for years and it is the best visa i have ever had.The problem is the Immi boys have been thinking,and are sick of farangs playing them.They are inforcing the rules because the rorts are just too much now.Seems to have hit a raw nerve on this forum.Immigration couldnt care less how much you spend,its how much you got.

[jvs]

I think deep down the people who are affected by these rules know if they are ligit or not so no use complaining.

Many issues can be solved by leaving Thailand and returning with the correct visa.

It is very unfortunate for people who seem unable to get the correct visa while they have property here and have built up a new life here.

In my mind there is no question about there being a problem with abuses,there is!

The Thai government is trying to address this problem and it will be a little while before it is al sorted out,some people will be negatively affected for no apparent reason but we will have to abide by the law.

Imo you can just wait for the real crackdown to catch real criminals and wanted persons when they tell us we can only apply for a visa in the country in which our passport was issued.

Many times we hear of crackdowns and after a while things seems to mellow a bit,lets us just wait and see what happens this time.

In the meantime before you come to Thailand get a visa of some sort before you come here.

[louse1953]

By enforcing the regulations as they are doing they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater: for instance, with the under 50s, offshore workers, certain travellers, folks from other developing countries or teachers who are not necessarily trying to work illegally.

I highly doubt the vast majority of people being effected by this in various ways and to numerous extents are really criminals, 'poor quality' people or are remotely trying to 'play' the system. Many of these people are just doing what they can within a system that is unaccommodating, lacking, faulty or corrupt and some of them have more than likely been benefiting Thailand way beyond the price of a thousand baht visa. See dozens of posts in various related topics for examples of why a teacher might spend periods of time working illegally through no fault of their own, for instance.

If people's lives are to change without notice, if they are to be left stranded outside a border, if they are to be questioned, accused, blacklisted, deported or detained....

It is Thai Immigration and every one of their officials who are most responsible and should be held most to blame, not just for the sure inconvenience, the difficulty and indeed even probable suffering for some people due to their utterly unprofessional introduction of actually enforcing their own law, but also those same Thai Immigration officials should look to themsleves and/or their colleagues for being most responsible in allowing things to have got to this point at all.

Perhaps they can also be paid ABOVE THE TABLE to interrogate each other as to why they now might think it's appropriate not to allow for a period of grace so everybody can make the changes necessary for us all to live our lives as best as we possibly can.

PS. I actually totally condone this enforcement, if implemented better.

This has nothing to do with Immi.The responcibilty is on the "visitor" to organise their paperwork to comply.A lot of people on this forum want the Thais to be more like the west.Well now your getting,and the rorters are not happy.Still plenty of ways to stay long term.

[TheRascal]

as the other thread was closed, I'd like to continue the convo on non-B visa/BOI... So, from what I understood, you pay them some money (I'm guessing some larger investment + a monthly fee for accounting), you get a non-B + your own work permit and that it might be an option for freelancers, is that right? Now, the problem is that as a freelancer, you don't always have a steady income, so that might be a problem? Or it's no big deal unless you can pay the fee? Hope it's not too OT

BOI is very expensive, much more than most online digital nomads will pay..

I suspect people are confusing information I listed, which is that there is a BOI registered company (so isnt limited to how many Thai employees for work permit extensions) that will employ digital nomads and make them legal. They then pay all your taxes social security etc.

You work for them, not alone. Doing what you wish.

I always wondered why why a company like this wasn't setup although I'd guess the digital nomads have to pay into the company which then pays out to them as there's a set amount that BOI companies have to be paying out in wages to be able to keep the status (I believe it's 10 million per year) within 2/3 years

[Chillout101]

I know they aren't meant to start enforcing this at the airport till mid August.

Just my experience at arrival today. I'm working offshore on a 3/3 rota. I usually have a non immigrant visa but haven't had an oppotunity to renew it since last October so have beeb using visa waiver on arrival. Today was my 5th in a row in a fairly new passport. No mention from the woman officer. Just 30 stamp and away. Hopefully this will set any other offshore types arriving in the next few days at ease. I still intend to get another non-im next Month as I don't meed any hassle from immigration.

Nice, I leave LOS next week for 21 days work so hope more will post same good news.

[louse1953]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

I'm sure you're right and that many Thais have very little idea of how the opening of the AEC is going to impact their country. Cross border freedom of movement of ASEAN member country workers is one of the things that will be enabled.

Further down the road, if the AEC follows the path of the European Union, you might get a common currency. Can you imagine that in Thailand - an ASEAN central bank dictating the country's finances?

Perhaps the ASEAN area would eventually decide to introduce its own form of Schengen Visa?

It wouldn't surprise me if Thailand pulls out of ASEAN once it sees how deep the changes will run.

Thai English teachers are already going to Cambo to teach Thai.When the Khymers and Burmese start coming in mobs is when the problems will start.Same when Thais rekon they will be welcome in Malaysia or Singapore.Xenophobia and outright racism will kick in and old hatreds will surface quickly.One the other hand it might actually unite the country.You watch politicians use nationalism to favour curry.Once that pandoras box is open,lookout.

[stevenl]

as the other thread was closed, I'd like to continue the convo on non-B visa/BOI... So, from what I understood, you pay them some money (I'm guessing some larger investment + a monthly fee for accounting), you get a non-B + your own work permit and that it might be an option for freelancers, is that right? Now, the problem is that as a freelancer, you don't always have a steady income, so that might be a problem? Or it's no big deal unless you can pay the fee? Hope it's not too OT

BOI is very expensive, much more than most online digital nomads will pay..

I suspect people are confusing information I listed, which is that there is a BOI registered company (so isnt limited to how many Thai employees for work permit extensions) that will employ digital nomads and make them legal. They then pay all your taxes social security etc.

You work for them, not alone. Doing what you wish.

I always wondered why why a company like this wasn't setup although I'd guess the digital nomads have to pay into the company which then pays out to them as there's a set amount that BOI companies have to be paying out in wages to be able to keep the status (I believe it's 10 million per year) within 2/3 years

Quite a few of those companies offering services here on Phuket. Borderline legal though IMO.

[Timwin]

These retirement and other visa holders applauding gleefully for this are just fools. This could crash the condo markets very badly. Good luck trying to find the next tenant or trying to sell your condo. The more Thais come in to a condominium, the more farangs start to sell. The value of your condo goes down the toilet. A lot of retirees depend on this extra income. Farang bar owners will suffer also.

The flow of retirees will also dry up once a lot of them will be interrogated harshly when they are on tourist visas before hitting 50. DKNY77 for example was thinking of retiring and living in Thailand but no more! That is only one case but if it is that bad already before August, it will only get worse by then!

Edited May 17, 2014 by Timwin

[Gulfsailor]

Most people complaining or worrying about these 'new' regulations need to understand what the purpose of a visa, visa exempt entry or voa actually is. These are all aimed at the occasional visitor to Thailand who is residing outside the country. It does not allow you you to reside here.

If you want to stay in Thailand long time this can only be accomplished by getting a permanent residency, citizenship or extension of stay.

So a border run is always using a loophole. Even if you have a multiple entry visa of some sorts, it was never meant to be used back to back. Hence also the increased difficulty obtaining back to back single entry visas from neighbouring countries. Even obtaining a multiple B visa for Thailand is getting very hard in European countries, and based on having a workpermit I was refused this the past two times and just given a single entry with the advice to get an extension and re entry permit from within Thailand. The same obviously applies to people on non O visas. If you have a good reason to reside in Thailand you will get the extension of stay, either because of family ties, retirement or employment.

Now for the offshore worker or rich under50 long time tourist; if he/she can proof residence outside Thailand and just holidaying in Thailand then there shouldn't be a problem. Obviously most can't because they do reside in Thailand, obvious by the fact they own property and a vehicle in Thailand. Something a tourist is unlikely to have.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Gulfsailor

[Pattaya46]

This could crash the condo markets very badly.

Good luck trying to find the next tenant or trying to sell your condo.

A lot of exaggeration here I think. How many people really are concerned by this "crackdown"? Probably not that much. And how many of them rent yearly a condo? Probably very few.

In my condo I think that most people live here on long term visa (extension for wife, retirement, work-permit...) and others only come by period as true tourists using tourist visa. In fact I don't know any who live here on visa-run... and I supose it must be similar in most condos.