Guns Don't Kill People...

[chingching]

I've seen a Thai pull a gun on a Korean on a golf course...

I must admit though... the Korean was in the wrong.

If he shot the Korean would that count as a hole in one?

[Thaiboxer]

It must be said that most of the general NRA membership are fine people who use their guns safely. The NRA safety programs are also good. To bad the NRA leadership are extremeists.

Agreed...one of the reasons I never joined up with the NRA....they can be a bit extreme. You can get discounts on ammo if you're a member though

[simon43]

I agree with GuestHouse. Americans seem to think it is entirely acceptable to own/carry/use a gun and no-one is going to change that mindset.

Whereas 'we' in the civilised world (UK) get by without any guns and with a much lower level of gun-related crime, (except for the drug-gang shootings!).

When I lived in the UK I owned more than 40 guns, some handguns, some shotguns, some that I collected and some that I used for clay and game-shooting. All had to be kept securely in a gun cabinet at my house. I never thought that these weapons were there for my protection. (It would take me at least 10 minutes to unlock the gun cabinet and assemble my shotguns...)

When I moved to Thailand, I wanted to bring my shotguns to do some clay shooting. Not a chance!! I could import these guns but I could never get permission to own/use them in Thailand. That was the line I was told. So all my guns stay in England.

Guns do not kill people. The person pulling the trigger kills them. But guns tend to be very reliable and very rarely 'break down'. Unfortunately, humans are not so reliable and 'break-downs' are common. It's these heat of the moment actions that you regret later.

Unfortunately, I think many Americans are mentally unstable at times

Simon

[sbk]

Just out of curiousity, here, are we all living in Thailand??

I have seen far more gun violence here than my entire family put together has in the US. Nearly every Thai man in the neighborhood owns a gun. I have been to more funerals of people shot by guns than any other kind of murder.

I realize that the South is more violent than the rest of Thailand but lets all climb off our high horses about UK and US gun violence shall we? There are far more pressing issues about gun violence in Thailand than in the US.

[Thaiboxer]

Whereas 'we' in the civilised world (UK)

Yeah, the UK is "civilised" alright Gotta love that post!

With regard to Americans being mentally unstable at times...the Brits are no exception. Lots of them tell me of the violence over there and how all the CCTV in London hasn't done squat to make the city safer.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Thaiboxer

[sbk]

Well, after reading that two guys were shot and killed in Pattaya because they made too much noise when cheering for a soccer game I'm wondering - is it just me or are more people being shot these days over absolutely NOTHING? I mean come on, if I shot everyone who woke me up or who made so much noise that I couldn't hear myself think, I'd be committing mass murder! My neighborhood would be devoid of people!!

I'm actually wondering if I should try to get a handgun for self defense. I'm serious. I've been followed by a gang of motorbike punks recently. They followed me all the way home and stood outside my gate throwing beer bottles at me. There really wasn't anything keeping them from coming in, I'm just glad they didn't. What can I do against a gang of teenagers hel_l-bent on causing my bodily harm? Nothing really.

Question: is it possible to legally purchase a handgun? How about a shotgun so I can protect my family on my property?

Good thing I'm not a big fan of soccer... this could save my life.

Lets quote the OP again, just to remind everyone that the topic of this post isn't Americans and guns or Brits and guns but Thailand and its gun violence.

Is owning a gun in Thailand really a solution to all the gun violence around us? I know alot of Thai people with guns and I also knew quite a few Thai people who had guns (now dead, shot by someone else with a gun). It hasn't seem to have solved their problem.

For a Thai person the main reason to own a gun is to either kill someone else with it or protect oneself against some maniac whom one has managed to (inadvertantly or otherwise) get on the wrong side of.

Another reason is for protection of ones property: I know a small shop owner who bought a gun after young men stole gas out of his gasoline barrell dispenser --one that was locked up. He bought a gun because he knows the local police are absolutely incapable of coming when called for an emergency and figured he could use the gun to scare them away next time.

Is this right? I don't think so but then I am not the one with this problem.

So, back to the topic at hand rather than American or Brit bashing, shall we?

[Crushdepth]

You are joking....please?.

So you put a shotgun in airfreight from wherever you are from- get it through security checks and with no export documentation then arrive at the freight shed at Don Muang to pick up a shotgun?.

No questions asked?.

You can get *anything* you like through customs if you go through a local freight agent and are prepared to pay a modest amount of tea money.

If that sounds unethical, I would also like to add that you cannot get *anything* through customs unless you are prepared to pay tea money. They have a complete stranglehold.

[Galong]

Does anyone know if telescopic spring stell batons are availabe locally and from where? Also, is pepper spray available here. BTW I once inquired about importing a shotgun I have overeas to here. I merely needed to fill out a form and get a letter from my local police commander giving approval. I have a friend who is a retired Air Forse general and he says the importing is no big deal. I never pursued it because a) I wasn't really sure I wanted a gun here, and b ) just being able to import it does not ensure one can register it, which I never really checked out.

The problem with bats, sprays, battons, etc is that you have to be close to the attacker. A bullet travels far. If there is someone standing at my front gate with a gun and me standing in my doorway some 20 meters away what am I to do? Throw the bat at him??

I agree 100% that using a non-lethal weapon is by far the first choice, but what if your choices are limited to distance issues?

As far as the suggestion that if one lives in an area that's dangerous, that person should move... well, where is a place without guns and violence? I love where I live, but I don't want to move just because there is the remote possibility that I could be attacked by a gun in the hand of a teenager.

[chingching]

I'm serious. I've been followed by a gang of motorbike punks recently. They followed me all the way home and stood outside my gate throwing beer bottles at me.

Most interesting, don't most "bird-brains" like chickens, pheasants, sparrows, have enough sense not to take the fox back to their nest. Are you married? What did you say to your wife? "Hi Honey, I'm home, Look who I brought over for dinner. Don't worry they brought beer" ?? Are you glad now that all of them know exactly where you live, and you nothing about them?

[Galong]

law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year

its probably too late for you guys in the US to turn back from gun ownership,....

Any reason why they should?

oh no no im a convert, just think i could spot a guy buying a really terrible shirt, and blow his brains out thereby preventing a heinious fashion crime. what about those fat women who buy grossly tight lycra shorts, doing the world a favour IMHO.

Are you under some impression that its typical for law abiding Americans to carry guns in public?

Perhaps not many carry them 'in public', but a lot have them in their cars. I was once driving on a dark highway in West Virginia and a car with two obviously drunk buttholes started bumping into my rear bumper. They went around me and started slamming on their brakes. Then, the passenger rolled down his window to show me that he had a gun. Well, so did I and when I let them know that I had a gun, suddenly they didn't feel like hassling me. I'm glad it ended like that.

I wish the world wasn't so screwed up that I would even consider carrying a gun, but alas, the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of gun-toting bad guys out there. I don't want to become a statistic.

[sbk]

OK, back on topic shall we? Guns in Thailand, and should you have one???

[LoveDaBlues]

law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year

I'm sorry but that sounds like BS. Say 50 million gun owners in the states, that means 1 in 20 use a firearm to save themselves from a crime every year!! in their dreams maybe? does that figure include the use of firearms in movies too?

its probably too late for you guys in the US to turn back from gun ownership, but your 'stats' are pure bs.

First of all; they aren't 'my' stats. Read the post carefully and you'll see the sources. You call the stats BS but how do you justify that opinion.....you pull a figure out of the air (or perhaps yer arse) when you say, "Say 50 million gun owners....etc." If you're going to pop off at least find some data to back up your arguement.

[LoveDaBlues]

I don't carry a purse and I am very lazy about carry along my passport and dl. My mobile phone lies the most time in the car and is annoying me to the quick if I have to take it with me. Now, in the hot, humid season, I even avoid to wear my favorite 500 000฿ - Rolex.

Thinking about marching around with 1- 2 kg's of dangerous steel is just... ridiculous.

Also, the objects surrounding yourself are affecting your mind-settings in a considerable way .

I've never carried a gun around with me. All my posts are with regards to having a gun in the home for self defense. A friend used to carry around one (he had a conceal carry permit) but stopped after a few weeks; too much trouble and hassle as you said.

[sriracha john]

Lets quote the OP again, just to remind everyone that the topic of this post isn't Americans and guns or Brits and guns but Thailand and its gun violence.

So, back to the topic at hand rather than American or Brit bashing, shall we?

OK, back on topic shall we? Guns in Thailand, and should you have one???

law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year

I'm sorry but that sounds like BS. Say 50 million gun owners in the states, that means 1 in 20 use a firearm to save themselves from a crime every year!! in their dreams maybe? does that figure include the use of firearms in movies too?

its probably too late for you guys in the US to turn back from gun ownership, but your 'stats' are pure bs.

First of all; they aren't 'my' stats. Read the post carefully and you'll see the sources. You call the stats BS but how do you justify that opinion.....you pull a figure out of the air (or perhaps yer arse) when you say, "Say 50 million gun owners....etc." If you're going to pop off at least find some data to back up your arguement.

"What we have here, is a failure... to communicate"

Strother Martin

movie Cool Hand Luke

[LoveDaBlues]

....And as they ascend the stairs where my family sleeps ...I respond by increasing the Bass & Treble? If they have illegally entered my home even knowing people are there....their "fear of the unknown" is gone. They mean malice. If I was at home and knew an intruder was in the house, I would not hunt them . As long as the family are upstairs with me then I let the insurance company buy me a new entertainment system or whatever the prick steals. But....and this is assuming the intruder doesn't get the jump on me because it doesnt matter whether you have a gun at that point, the prick starts up the stairs........then the first and last thing they see is a muzzle flash

While your obviously deserving of a gun, I dont think arming the general population is the best way to make society a safer place.

The USA is probably fcuked as far as gun ownership goes by now, you must have 100s of millions of firearms floating around, I suppose the best thing for the average citizen to do is arm him or herself to the teeth and get ready to rumble.

I lived in Tanzania in the mid 90s for a year and there was a real gun culture developing there. On one occasion myself and a friend got into an argument with a couple of guys and once I started fighting one of them the other runs of to his pickup saying he's going to get his gun. I so my mate and I leg it to my car and try to make a get away, my little peugot 306 shuddering its way through the pot holed dirt track followed by a couple of loons who want to shoot us supposedly. Luckily I didnt live too far away and get to my gate by the time they catch us up, so with the askaris around the guys dont do anything.

On another occasion going to a party in a couple of cars, one gets stuck and they somehow get into an argument with some guy that we knew vaugely, he pulls out a gun and points it at one of my mates. My mate say Ok then go on shoot!!

I wouldnt say when going out that I was always on the look out for a gun, but I certainly didnt feel that safe. I dont think most people are fit to carry guns, you need lots of training and self discipline.

The stats you brought up speak for themselves, most gun owners are dreamers.

Lets put it in again since you went to such pains to cut it out of the last post:

law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year

I'm sorry but that sounds like BS. Say 50 million gun owners in the states, that means 1 in 20 use a firearm to save themselves from a crime every year!! in their dreams maybe? does that figure include the use of firearms in movies too?

its probably too late for you guys in the US to turn back from gun ownership, but your 'stats' are pure bs.

Dont know what the gun situation here is, but I hope it never gets as bad as the US case.

hmmmmmmm.......you and your friends seem to get into a lot of arguements/fights with other people.......what is the common denominator there........

You're right......YOU don't need a gun.

[LoveDaBlues]

Lets quote the OP again, just to remind everyone that the topic of this post isn't Americans and guns or Brits and guns but Thailand and its gun violence.

So, back to the topic at hand rather than American or Brit bashing, shall we?

OK, back on topic shall we? Guns in Thailand, and should you have one???

law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year

I'm sorry but that sounds like BS. Say 50 million gun owners in the states, that means 1 in 20 use a firearm to save themselves from a crime every year!! in their dreams maybe? does that figure include the use of firearms in movies too?

its probably too late for you guys in the US to turn back from gun ownership, but your 'stats' are pure bs.

First of all; they aren't 'my' stats. Read the post carefully and you'll see the sources. You call the stats BS but how do you justify that opinion.....you pull a figure out of the air (or perhaps yer arse) when you say, "Say 50 million gun owners....etc." If you're going to pop off at least find some data to back up your arguement.

"What we have here, is a failure... to communicate"

Strother Martin

movie Cool Hand Luke

Strother Martin -> Now Luke, you've just got to get your mind right boy.

[ColPyat]

Guns are as much a part of US culture as apple pie. Lots of countries have high rats of gun ownership, yet suffer from less gun related violence. Taking away the guns is not the answer since the criminals will have it even easier than they do now.

That leaves us then only one logical conclusion - lets ban Americans.

[sriracha john]

I remember a time on thaivisa when one mod warning to stay on topic was sufficient.... now it seems like two mod warnings aren't enough....

[taxexile]

should we be allowed to cary guns ? no.

i would think that more people have been killed by an aggressor with a gun losing control of his temper and using it (e.g. the kanchanaburi killer cop , the guy in pattaya the other day the brit from hull in pattaya who was gunned down whilst on his bike ), than lives have been saved by a gun owner defending himself by using the weapon.

criminals will always have access to them , so gun control laws are next to useless.

penalties for possession should be harsh and enforced.

you just have to hope that the guy at the lights that you have just cut up with your bike or car is not a gun carrying retard with something to prove.

if i had my choice , i would rather systematically and methodically work over an aggressive intruder with a baseball bat than do him quickly with a gun. but thats just me being a softie.

Edited June 18, 2006 by taxexile

[Thaiboxer]

That leaves us then only one logical conclusion - lets ban Americans.

Now there's some logic!

Edited June 18, 2006 by Thaiboxer

[Lormaak]

criminals will always have access to them , so gun control laws are next to useless.

I don't understand this logic. Are you saying that illegal guns were never in legal circulation? Surely most illegal guns are legal weapons that were stolen or ill-gotten from some source or other. Or do arms manafacturers have a black market quotient they produce in their factories?

Obviously, the more guns in a society, the more that are available for illegal activities. Also, the easier it is to get hold of a weapon, the more likely it is to be used in a crime.

As for guns at home and defending one's property, here are some more stats (American, but I guess they apply elsewhere).

A member of your own family is 22 times more likely to die from gun related injuries if you keep guns in the house than if you don't.

Of all the instances of guns being fired during a break-in when the owner is at home, only a small percentage of the time is the intruder shot. The rest of the time, the resident accidentally shoots a family member, or the intruder gets the gun and uses it on the resident.

Each year about 500 000 guns are stolen, mostly from well-to-do neighbourhoods. Guess where they end up.

Lastly, if someone really wants you dead, do you think the fact you've got a gun will be much of a deterrent? RIP

[thankuverybig]

i think the idea of everybody owning a gun is a little worrying to say the least,considering that most people are slightly insane,have predjudices,hang ups,personal problems etc.

throw in mind changing drugs,& alcohol & you have a bit of a coctail.

you could say that youre not implying everybody should have one,but really by buying & owning one you are making a statement.

i often wonder whether people who say they want a gun,really want one because of some unconscious fantasy to be able to use it,rather than for protection,but then i suppose our culture teaches us this,the movies etc.

its a complicated issue & i agree that maybe its a good idea to have one if youve fallen out with the wrong kind of people,but if youre continually getting the wrong kind of reaction from people then maybe the problem is a little closer to home.

[meadish_sweetball]

Closing the thread as it has drifted off topic. There are other forums to discuss the pros and cons of guns in society.