Legally work as a freelance programmer in Thailand

[hobz]

Hello peoples,

I'm from Sweden,

I have a Swedish private firm, i am the owner and only employee.

I have clients from US, Australia etc, (No clients from Thailand).

My clients pay me to program websites.

I work from home.

What type of visa do I need if I want to work from Thailand?

How do I get it?

I know many people have this problem, and some of them say "get an education visa" .. but that is not legal, or is it?

If my company is Swedish and my clients are American, and I work from Thailand but pay tax in Sweden? <deleted>?

Any good lawyers?

Thanks in advance

[hobz]

Oh, I don't want to hire thai people just to meet some requirement for work permit.

[Mario2008]

Legally you are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit, which you need to get through a Thai company.

As you already found most people in your case opt for doing it illegally and just work at home without telling anyone. That does give visa problems and studying is one way people handle that.

[hobz]

Legally you are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit, which you need to get through a Thai company.

As you already found most people in your case opt for doing it illegally and just work at home without telling anyone. That does give visa problems and studying is one way people handle that.

That's so strange, i would GLADLY pay tax here instead of in Sweden... If they just let me..

[hobz]

Let's say I stay in Sweden 10 months of the year and visit Thailand 2 months each year,, am I allowed to work while on holiday? Sometimes a client needs some emergency stuff... If it is ok, then where is the line drawn? How much can I work on my holiday?

[Stanley78]

Let's say I stay in Sweden 10 months of the year and visit Thailand 2 months each year,, am I allowed to work while on holiday? Sometimes a client needs some emergency stuff... If it is ok, then where is the line drawn? How much can I work on my holiday?

Legally I would assume 0 hours?

However in reality, who has ever been a tourist in any country, gotten a business/work related e-mail and thought "I'd better not reply to it before I've crossed the border, after all I don't have a work permit for this country".

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess no one.

[stevenl]

Legally you are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit, which you need to get through a Thai company.

As you already found most people in your case opt for doing it illegally and just work at home without telling anyone. That does give visa problems and studying is one way people handle that.

That's so strange, i would GLADLY pay tax here instead of in Sweden... If they just let me..

I think you can. Go to the tax office, tell them you'd like a number, tell them how much you make and they can charge you.

Then you tell the Swedish tax department you're paying taxes in Thailand (is there a tax agreement between Sweden and Thailand ti avoid paying double taxes?).

[ParadiseLost]

Legally you are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit, which you need to get through a Thai company.

As you already found most people in your case opt for doing it illegally and just work at home without telling anyone. That does give visa problems and studying is one way people handle that.

That's so strange, i would GLADLY pay tax here instead of in Sweden... If they just let me..

I think you can. Go to the tax office, tell them you'd like a number, tell them how much you make and they can charge you.

Then you tell the Swedish tax department you're paying taxes in Thailand (is there a tax agreement between Sweden and Thailand ti avoid paying double taxes?).

Unfortunately even if you do this it does not help the visa situation - to extend a non-b you need a work permit to back up Thai tax receipts, which entails employing locals, etc. etc.

I explored the possibility of registering as a sole provider a few years back but this is not allowed. I should add I am in the IT industry as well.

[poohy]

I do similar (not IT but travel related)

I used a non multiple visa for years now as over 50 on a o retirement visa I work from home and regular business trips realistically if you don't have a high profile or broadcast it to neighbors farang or Thai never had a problem.

I suspect I am not alone doing this!

[Satcommlee]

There are umbrella companies that offer to sort your work permit/taxes out for a commision....

Google "Thai Umbrella companies".

Don't know if they are scammers or not though

[Stanley78]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

[IMA_FARANG]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

-------------------

The irony of it is that (as we both know) the Thai tax rate he would pay is lower than in Sweden.

Except it's not legal here in Thailand for him to work that way without a work permit.

If the Thais made it legal for him to work here in Thailand as a "self-employed foreigner with income from outside of Thailand" then:

• He would benefit from a lower tax rate on his income
• Thailand would benefit from the tax revenue they would get
• And if he lived here and paid rent and such for his living expenses here in Thailand, then the Thai economy would benefit directly from what he spent here.
• So it would be a win-win situation..... with both him and the Thai government benefiting from "winning"

But no, it won't happen because of the "rules".

"Amazing" Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

-------------------

The irony of it is that (as we both know) the Thai tax rate he would pay is lower than in Sweden.

Except it's not legal here in Thailand for him to work that way without a work permit.

If the Thais made it legal for him to work here in Thailand as a "self-employed foreigner with income from outside of Thailand" then:

• He would benefit from a lower tax rate on his income
• Thailand would benefit from the tax revenue they would get
• And if he lived here and paid rent and such for his living expenses here in Thailand, then the Thai economy would benefit directly from what he spent here.
• So it would be a win-win situation..... with both him and the Thai government benefiting from "winning"

But no, it won't happen because of the "rules".

"Amazing" Thailand.

does your home country allow just anyone to come and live there full time and work as a freelancer?

[Timwin]

From a law firm: "While Thai law does require anyone working in Thailand to have a work permit we have been told by the Labor Department that they generally do not require a work permit for those checking emails and doing some work from home remotely. However, if you are selling on Ebay and have boxes of goods in your home this would be looked at in a different light and we have been told that they would expect you to have a company and work permit for this kind of exporting."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/570294-sunbelt-can-you-weigh-in-on-this-topic/

It is the same if you are an author writing books and selling them online. Hardly a target to go after.

[AYJAYDEE]

From a law firm: "While Thai law does require anyone working in Thailand to have a work permit we have been told by the Labor Department that they generally do not require a work permit for those checking emails and doing some work from home remotely. However, if you are selling on Ebay and have boxes of goods in your home this would be looked at in a different light and we have been told that they would expect you to have a company and work permit for this kind of exporting."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/570294-sunbelt-can-you-weigh-in-on-this-topic/

It is the same if you are an author writing books and selling them online. Hardly a target to go after.

In other words, dont advertise what youre doing

[Squeegee]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

[Thai at Heart]

Let's say I stay in Sweden 10 months of the year and visit Thailand 2 months each year,, am I allowed to work while on holiday? Sometimes a client needs some emergency stuff... If it is ok, then where is the line drawn? How much can I work on my holiday?

Legally I would assume 0 hours?

However in reality, who has ever been a tourist in any country, gotten a business/work related e-mail and thought "I'd better not reply to it before I've crossed the border, after all I don't have a work permit for this country".

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess no one.

If the money is paid offshore unless you are going to admit it to anyone, no one can prove what u are doing.

Don't worry about it.

[Thai at Heart]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever, and paying taxes is considered a pleasure in our country.

In fact it's so popular that not paying them can carry a more severe prison sentence than assault.

-------------------

The irony of it is that (as we both know) the Thai tax rate he would pay is lower than in Sweden.

Except it's not legal here in Thailand for him to work that way without a work permit.

If the Thais made it legal for him to work here in Thailand as a "self-employed foreigner with income from outside of Thailand" then:

• He would benefit from a lower tax rate on his income
• Thailand would benefit from the tax revenue they would get
• And if he lived here and paid rent and such for his living expenses here in Thailand, then the Thai economy would benefit directly from what he spent here.
• So it would be a win-win situation..... with both him and the Thai government benefiting from "winning"

But no, it won't happen because of the "rules".

"Amazing" Thailand.

They are definitely not interested in that, despite the massive obvious tax revenue benefits.

[sustento]

Nah he's Swedish (like me) and I can tell you that we do not troll, ever,

You sure about that?

[Stanley78]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

I'm here i'm here!

*clears throat*

You should absolutely not work in Thailand without a work permit. It is against immigration law and if you do so you are a very bad person.

Now in all seriousness. If you spend 10 months per year in Sweden, and 2 months per year in Thailand enjoying the beaches, restaurants whatever and doing a bit of work on your computer then I couldn't care less.

If you are spending the majority of each calendar year in Thailand (6 or more months) then I don't think that you should work while there. The fact that you are unable to obtain a work permit simply means that you have to find another country where you are allowed to reside AND work.

But then again why should you care what I think, I don't work for Thailand immigration and I won't lose any sleep over thinking that perhaps somewhere in Thailand there you are at your keyboard, tapping away and creating web sites, without a permit.

I don't think people should break the rules, but I don't actually care if they do. I only care when they blatantly break them year after year AND THEN come whining because it's not possible to do anymore.

Do what you want and good luck!

[ukrules]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

I suspect they're all beginning to realise that pretty much anyone living here on yearly O or B visas without a work permit are all going to fall under this new 'Out/In' rule.

[AYJAYDEE]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

I suspect they're all beginning to realise that pretty much anyone living here on yearly O or B visas without a work permit are all going to fall under this new 'Out/In' rule.

where did you read that?

[ukrules]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

I suspect they're all beginning to realise that pretty much anyone living here on yearly O or B visas without a work permit are all going to fall under this new 'Out/In' rule.

where did you read that?

I didn't read it anywhere, I used my brain to come to this conclusion.

They're cracking down on people who make 'Out/In' visa runs. People on most types of yearly O and B visas often do this to live in Thailand. You can buy get Business visas by paying a company of lawyers to sponsor you.

If you don't have a work permit, do the visa runs and stay in Thailand 11+ months a year they will be asking a lot of questions...

This is going to affect a lot more people than just those doing visa exempt entries, I'm sure that will become clearer in due course.

[AYJAYDEE]

So where is the holier-than-thou brigade from the visa exempt crackdown threads?

I suspect they're all beginning to realise that pretty much anyone living here on yearly O or B visas without a work permit are all going to fall under this new 'Out/In' rule.

where did you read that?

I didn't read it anywhere, I used my brain to come to this conclusion.

They're cracking down on people who make 'Out/In' visa runs. People on most types of yearly O and B visas often do this to live in Thailand. You can buy get Business visas by paying a company of lawyers to sponsor you.

If you don't have a work permit, do the visa runs and stay in Thailand 11+ months a year they will be asking a lot of questions...

This is going to affect a lot more people than just those doing visa exempt entries, I'm sure that will become clearer in due course.

so its an opinion. thats what I thought.

[ukrules]

so its an opinion. thats what I thought.

Yes, call it a prediction based on his promise to crack down on 'Out/In' visa runners.

Time will tell how it actually plays out, many times in the past similar schemes / crackdowns have amounted to nothing but this time it seems a lot more real.

[AYJAYDEE]

so its an opinion. thats what I thought.

Yes, call it a prediction based on his promise to crack down on 'Out/In' visa runners.

Time will tell how it actually plays out, many times in the past similar schemes / crackdowns have amounted to nothing but this time it seems a lot more real.

if someone can qualify for a non-o then they should be able to qualify for an extension as well.

[taotoo]

so its an opinion. thats what I thought.

The clue was "I suspect".

[AYJAYDEE]

so its an opinion. thats what I thought.

The clue was "I suspect".

no it wasnt. he suspected that some others didnt yet realize what he believes to be true.

[2008bangkok]

I guess the OP already knows the answer to his question if he wrote ' I don't want to employ Thais to get a work' permit.

It's vet simple setup a company, employ couple Thais get a work and they you'll get a work permit or keep quiet.

I'm sure you will be cool

[LivinLOS]

There is a BOI company set up precisely for what you wish.

They employ you.. They get you a B visa and a work permit, they can process extensions, they pay your taxes and social security, zero rated VAT accounts, they do everything.. You just work.

They charge 25% of your income, and with this 25% they pay your income tax bills (up to something like 8 or 9k USD per month.. after that the tax rate is too high, they actually lose money).

Your legal, you pay tax, you can show your tax records to sweden so as not to pay double.

Its perfect and its cheap !!