"I don't want to rent an Office" Ridiculous Business Visa Rules

[KittenKong]

Having a business in Thailand is a walk in the park in comparison to the West admin wise.

In the West, aside from stringent accounting, you need to have all sorts of insurances, licenses, and compliance's.

I think what you meant to say was "having a fly-by-night business in Thailand is a walk in the park in comparison to the West", and I agree. That's probably why so many fly-by-night incompetent farang losers come here to set up their "businesses".

In most countries, strict rules about business creation are designed to protect staff and customers and suppliers and the environment and the general public and, yes, even the local taxman. If all that makes businesses accountable for what they do then I dont see much wrong with it.

Edited May 22, 2014 by KittenKong

[Eneukman]

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So you do have four Thais working in the company ? Or did you manage to get a WP without them ?

From talking to someone who set up a business locally, you do indeed need four Thai employees per work permit. He only has two employees the last I heard but pays tax and social security etc for both of them and two "fictional" employees.

Alan

[Lammbock]

Hello Community,

End of 2013 I opened my Thai company and did everything by the books. I got 49% shares and was declared as the Director. Since this year I have my WP. (The two Thai partners are family members)

This is my first company in my life and to keep costs at a minimum I am doing basically everything by my self. Except for Accounting/Book keeping and handling the renew department etc..

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to avoid tax payments. They are very low anyway compared to Europe. But this is not my point.

What bothers me is that as a Director of a "Thai Co., Ltd." I can't get a decent B-Visa to legally stay in this country and do my Job. They want I rent a office, place the 4 Thai stuff member behind a desk, all in the same uniform (me too) and take pictures. What the hell is wrong with this people? I told them I won't do it due to safe my monthly costs. I can do everything by myself and working from my home is totally fine for me. When I have to travel I do travel.

So the best way for me is to go back to my home country and apply for the B-Visa which I did before many times. I get it in 20min. Very easy.

The only advantage is (I think) to get the B-Visa issued within Thailand is that you don't need to leave the country every 90 days. But since I do travel at least once a month it makes no difference for me where my B-Visa is issued.

I am just saying it is totally ridiculous that not even with the WP comes together a decent Visa. This (again) has to be taken care of separately (and of course) in the most difficult way this bureaucracy can think of.

This country has some issues. (Unfortunately)

Just my 2 cents.

/post edit

20 min. ? Really? well rules been changed.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well, we will see about that.

[Lammbock]

Getting a work permit has rules.

The first rule is that yu have to have employees and be paying them at least 300 baht a day.

They want to see the actual set up for your company.

You obviously did this on your own without any legal advise.

The first thing I was told was that i had to have the money, an office, 2 paid Thai staff and an office that i worked out of and that they had desks or duties at.

The fact that you have a business that you do all the work tels me that it is not a company that is dealing with Thai's.

That will be an issue.

My suggestion is that youget thee to a shop that embroiders names and logos on some golf shirts. If nothing else it will appease the god;s and also it will not hurt for advertising.Rent a small office that will hold your staff.

have someone shoot a small video with you introducing one of your staff and then them introducing the others and stating who they are and what they do.

There are plenty of locatins that you can get a cheap office or if you are doing it out of your house then put up a shingle on the front.

OH ONE LAST THING

QUIT YOUR BATCHING AND MOANING BECAUSE YOU MISSED A DETAIL.

Be happy you caught it now and not at tax time when you will be expected to make all the necessary paymetns for your staff and show that you paid them.

I am not "dealing" with Thais all the time. I am running a international trading company. I don't want to say to much about what my company is exactly doing because I don't know who is reading here. But I can say this, what I am doing I have done for the past 10 years successfully as an employee (even for a Thai company) and I was thinking to use my knowledge and "contacts" to start my own business.

[Lammbock]

They want I rent a office, place the 4 Thai stuff member behind a desk, all in the same uniform (me too) and take pictures. What the hell is wrong with this people? I told them I won't do it due to safe my monthly costs. I can do everything by myself and working from my home is totally fine for me.

Is it so difficult to understand ?

The Thai's do NOT want you to have YOUR company in TH, but you generating income, jobs and salary for Thais. And.. for Thais only.

Therefore: 51% Thai ownership ( where they ever should get their part of the company capital from, not an ash is interested )

The aim is NOT that YOU earn money, but that money flows into Thailand.

So: a company driver, a company cleaner, a company garden keeper, a company cook, a company gate-keeper, a...

As soon as your bank account and your wallet are as empty as.... you are kicked out to leave . No reason for a visa anymore, so.. get lost... elsewhere.

I had 50% ownership before. But in this case if you want to have a B-Visa you need to obtain a "business license" which cost you 2.5 Million Baht. So we changed the ownership to 49%

[Lammbock]

You may find that you will not get a multiple entry non-b in your home country as easy as you have in the past.

Why you think that?

Setting up a home business is not easy in Thailand, but it is no different to most other companies in the world.

They are encouraging you to have an office and thai staff, to basically contribute to the country. As far as my business is concerned there was a requirement to prove that i have some local investment, assets and general capital in the company. If i recall it was 3 Thai staff for each expat and/or 3m baht in capital for each expat WP.

I know as the director, i have to travel to HK for my multiple-non B and that is only processed on receipt of a copy of all registration documents, copy of the 'Office Address, rental agreement and a map of the office location', tax ID certificate, 12 months bank statements, payroll summary for all Thai employees, etc, etc. 90% of the paperwork they hand back to me after flicking through the pages and pulling out what they wanted to keep...

There are other means however, you can find a virtual office or serviced office. For a monthly fee, they will provide you with an address, post box, telephone number and you should be able to register your tax ID at the local office nearby. If you don't actually have a room and a desk there, the costs maybe somewhere around 3000 or 4000 baht a month.

Although you need to check if the virtual office is okay for ongoing, local business and invoicing……or whether it can only be used as a sales office with no monthly invoicing and income?

Thank you for giving me the Idea with the serviced office. I will seriously look into that. Maybe for a long term it is the best solution!?!

Edited May 22, 2014 by Lammbock

[Lammbock]

Why would you really wish to set up a business in Thailand? Why not in your home country?

Or is it you think you can make a mint in the Kingdom?

The rules are there to make sure that as you make lots of money and order your Porsche - a bit is spread around to the locals.

I choose to live in Thailand 10 years ago and I love this country. I have no intend to go back to my home country permanently.

[Lammbock]

You are going to be bitterly disappointed doing business here.

Yeah right. Such a BS.

[Lammbock]

Obviously you didn't do very good job of researching the situation, all of this is common knowledge. Also, you do not get a "B" Visa in Thailand, you would be getting a one year extension of your permission to stay.

In order to get a B-Visa in Thailand you need to have already a B-Visa (which I had from my home country) and you can only apply 2 weeks before the immigration stamp in your passport is due to expire. Than you get a one month extension (single or multiple entry) and after you will get the 1 year B-Visa (single or multiple entry) In my case I had to provide the pictures of my office. Which I didn't. Although I submitted all required documents.

Thanks to all of you who put your time and effort in reading my Thread and posting your comments. I appreciate it.

Sorry, I couldn't fit all the quotes in one post.

[Pralaad]

Having a business in Thailand is a walk in the park in comparison to the West admin wise.

In the West, aside from stringent accounting, you need to have all sorts of insurances, licenses, and compliance's.

I think what you meant to say was "having a fly-by-night business in Thailand is a walk in the park in comparison to the West", and I agree. That's probably why so many fly-by-night incompetent farang losers come here to set up their "businesses".

In most countries, strict rules about business creation are designed to protect staff and customers and suppliers and the environment and the general public and, yes, even the local taxman. If all that makes businesses accountable for what they do then I dont see much wrong with it.

Would love to hear about your experience owing a business in Thailand or in the West.

Especially your knowledge and experience about staff protection and supplier protection

I only ask because your post sounds like a factory worker who is dreaming of what should be

Edited May 22, 2014 by Pralaad

[Lammbock]

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So you do have four Thais working in the company ? Or did you manage to get a WP without them ?

From talking to someone who set up a business locally, you do indeed need four Thai employees per work permit. He only has two employees the last I heard but pays tax and social security etc for both of them and two "fictional" employees.

Alan

As I understand one WP for one forigner equals four Thai employees. Additional to the two Thai shareholders. You do not pay salary/tax for shareholders.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[JesseFrank]

They want I rent a office, place the 4 Thai stuff member behind a desk, all in the same uniform (me too) and take pictures. What the hell is wrong with this people? I told them I won't do it due to safe my monthly costs. I can do everything by myself and working from my home is totally fine for me.

Is it so difficult to understand ?

The Thai's do NOT want you to have YOUR company in TH, but you generating income, jobs and salary for Thais. And.. for Thais only.

Therefore: 51% Thai ownership ( where they ever should get their part of the company capital from, not an ash is interested )

The aim is NOT that YOU earn money, but that money flows into Thailand.

So: a company driver, a company cleaner, a company garden keeper, a company cook, a company gate-keeper, a...

As soon as your bank account and your wallet are as empty as.... you are kicked out to leave . No reason for a visa anymore, so.. get lost... elsewhere.

I had 50% ownership before. But in this case if you want to have a B-Visa you need to obtain a "business license" which cost you 2.5 Million Baht. So we changed the ownership to 49%

You had 50% ownership of a Thai company before ?

Could you please explain how you were able to obtain 50% of any Thai company ?

[Lammbock]

When you establishing a new company you have to tell the lawyer who gets how many shares. I got 50%. Simply as that.

When I say "ownership" I mean to say "shares" I don't know if that is the same thing. My English is not perfect.

/post edit

Edited May 22, 2014 by Lammbock

[chrisinth]

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You are going to be bitterly disappointed doing business here.

And why exactly would you come to that conclusion? You don't even know what the OP is doing.

I have been working here for a long time, same company, and the work just never stops, doesn't even slow down. Expanding all the time.

I read all this advice given by posters on these kind of threads and have to wonder how many of them actually work in this country and how much is based on bar talk by embittered people getting caught out taking shortcuts in processes.

[JesseFrank]

When you establishing a new company you have to tell the lawyer who gets how many shares. I got 50%. Simply as that.

When I say "ownership" I mean to say "shares" I don't know if that is the same thing. My English is not perfect.

/post edit

But to my knowledge under Thai law a foreigner can never earn more than 49% of the shares in a company

Maybe time to look for new lawyer.

Edited May 22, 2014 by JesseFrank

[JesseFrank]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So you do have four Thais working in the company ? Or did you manage to get a WP without them ?

From talking to someone who set up a business locally, you do indeed need four Thai employees per work permit. He only has two employees the last I heard but pays tax and social security etc for both of them and two "fictional" employees.

Alan

As I understand one WP for one forigner equals four Thai employees. Additional to the two Thai shareholders. You do not pay salary/tax for shareholders.

Correct me if I am wrong.

The Thai shareholders can be employees at the same time.

[BlackJack]

dont forget you have to pay the social welfare for your Thai employees as well as the foreigners

this ads up as well over a year

[INV]

One thing that is not mention is the 2 mil baht capital that need to be put in to get wp. And there been writing about this, that you cant just put in all the money your self and kind

of "borrow" the 51% to the Thai partner(s) as you could a few year back,The Thai share holders can and most likely will be asked to show proof that they had this money

to set up the 51% of the company. Yes everybody still doing it this way but there will be a real check soon or later. As we all can see there is not much love for foreigners here so be ready.

[AYJAYDEE]

One thing that is not mention is the 2 mil baht capital that need to be put in to get wp. And there been writing about this, that you cant just put in all the money your self and kind

of "borrow" the 51% to the Thai partner(s) as you could a few year back,The Thai share holders can and most likely will be asked to show proof that they had this money

to set up the 51% of the company. Yes everybody still doing it this way but there will be a real check soon or later. As we all can see there is not much love for foreigners here so be ready.

it seems to me a less then wealthy foreigner has a far easier time coming to thailand and staying and working than a thai would going to a western country.

[INV]

Setup your business to Cambodia. You can setup anything from one man band to multinational company. Forget Thailand and their xenophobic and idiotic rules.

I agree 100%.They actually want you to set up business there and not try to make everything so damn hard and all this stupid ideas. And yes I lived there a few years ago and had business there so I know what I talking about. 30% of the salaries that it cost here and they work as good as the Thais, even better as they are happy to have a job and care a little bit more. Also they have real interest to try to learn English and want to know things, not same crappie attitude as here. And there is now also a tax free zone if I understand correct in Sihanoukville and the new power plant is running so that's the place to set up a business. Thailand have still better infrastructure but its changing faster in Cambodia and here its all this BS for visas and idiotic rules with 4 employees, office etc were the cost and headache getting worse every day make it less attractive to say it mildly .

Need to say that is not our right to set up business here as we like it, but its Thailand and they set the rules even if stupid and anti farang and we can take it or leave it, we are guests here and will never become anymore then that but still we can have a opinion.

Edited May 22, 2014 by INV

[ParadiseLost]

Setup your business to Cambodia. You can setup anything from one man band to multinational company. Forget Thailand and their xenophobic and idiotic rules.

I agree 100%.They actually want you to set up business there and not try to make everything so damn hard and all this stupid ideas. And yes I lived there a few years ago and had business there so I know what I talking about. 30% of the salaries that it cost here and they work as good as the Thais, even better as they are happy to have a job and care a little bit more. Also they have real interest to try to learn English and want to know things, not same crappie attitude as here. And there is now also a tax free zone if I understand correct in Sihanoukville and the new power plant is running so that's the place to set up a business. Thailand have still better infrastructure but its changing faster in Cambodia and here its all this BS for visas and idiotic rules with 4 employees, office etc were the cost and headache getting worse every day make it less attractive to say it mildly .

Expect big changes to Cambodia company and visa laws if their economy ever ignites.

The one and only problem is corruption on a grand scale - no MNC wants to do business with HS so a change in government is the only possible solution. Not likely when the PM doubles as Godfather and eliminates opposition by any means he chooses.

Good luck in Cambodia, I love the place but would not put any of my eggs in that basket - let alone all....

[LivinLOS]

When you establishing a new company you have to tell the lawyer who gets how many shares. I got 50%. Simply as that.

When I say "ownership" I mean to say "shares" I don't know if that is the same thing. My English is not perfect.

/post edit

But to my knowledge under Thai law a foreigner can never earn more than 49% of the shares in a company

Maybe time to look for new lawyer.

Are Amity companies still going for Americans.. A few years back (even after they said it was stopping) an american friend of mine had one, employing himself to contract out instead of being an employee..

[yankee99]

You dont need to rent a office just a sign with the company name in front of your house will do or the registered address of the company. The same one you needed to be vat registered. They came and took pics of my sign which is about the size of a ipad.

[KittenKong]

Would love to hear about your experience owing a business in Thailand or in the West.

Especially your knowledge and experience about staff protection and supplier protection

I only ask because your post sounds like a factory worker who is dreaming of what should be

Ho ho ho. It just goes to show that appearances can be deceptive.

I was self-employed in the West for 25 years and ran a few very successful small businesses simultaneously. I had hardly any staff but the few I did have were treated extremely well and stayed with me for many years. I also had zero litigation with either suppliers or customers, and no unpaid bills at all. I retired when I was 50 on my own savings and investments and moved here. I think it most unlikely that in the future I will ever be connected in any way with any sort of business in Thailand as I just don't need the money, or the partners (nominee sleepers or otherwise), or the hassle for that matter. I don't suppose I will ever start a new business elsewhere either, for much the same reasons.

[Pralaad]

Would love to hear about your experience owing a business in Thailand or in the West.

Especially your knowledge and experience about staff protection and supplier protection

I only ask because your post sounds like a factory worker who is dreaming of what should be

Ho ho ho. It just goes to show that appearances can be deceptive.

I was self-employed in the West for 25 years and ran a few very successful small businesses simultaneously. I had hardly any staff but the few I did have were treated extremely well and stayed with me for many years. I also had zero litigation with either suppliers or customers, and no unpaid bills at all. I retired when I was 50 on my own savings and investments and moved here. I think it most unlikely that in the future I will ever be connected in any way with any sort of business in Thailand as I just don't need the money, or the partners (nominee sleepers or otherwise), or the hassle for that matter. I don't suppose I will ever start a new business elsewhere either, for much the same reasons.

So you have 0 experience running a business in Thailand and yet you feel you are competent enough to preach about business in Thailand?

You have hardly any experience with staff, but you want to talk about staff protection?

What is staff protection? do share it with me and what is supplier protection?

Drain cleaners and brick layers are also self employed, though personally i would hardly call it running a business.

[KittenKong]

So you have 0 experience running a business in Thailand and yet you feel you are competent enough to preach about business in Thailand?

I didnt preach about anything. I did comment on the advantages of laws and regulations about businesses in general, and these advantages apply everywhere.

You have hardly any experience with staff, but you want to talk about staff protection?

As I pointed out, the experience I do have was excellent and was more than enough for me.

What is staff protection? do share it with me and what is supplier protection?

I'm surprised that anyone who purports to be in a position to run a business would not know this. Staff protection? Ensuring that they are treated correctly and paid correctly. Supplier protection? Ensuring that the company they supply to has been correctly set up with at least some capital and is likely to be able to pay for items supplied.

Drain cleaners and brick layers are also self employed, though personally i would hardly call it running a business.

I'm sure any drain cleaners or bricklayers reading that will be worrying about it all the way to their bank.

[natway09]

WP & visa are 2 different animals.

You can enter Thailand to "oversee your company interests" with a B visa.

But if going to actually work in the business u gonna need a WP.

[EBlair48]

When you establishing a new company you have to tell the lawyer who gets how many shares. I got 50%. Simply as that.

When I say "ownership" I mean to say "shares" I don't know if that is the same thing. My English is not perfect.

/post edit

But to my knowledge under Thai law a foreigner can never earn more than 49% of the shares in a company

Maybe time to look for new lawyer.

Are Amity companies still going for Americans.. A few years back (even after they said it was stopping) an american friend of mine had one, employing himself to contract out instead of being an employee..

Yes they are and are stilll being registered. US Citizen can own 99.98 % and after registering it, can actually have the other .02 % owned by US citizens, too.

However helps to have those two Thai shareholders ( .02% ) to keep the bureau-crap at bay. They hate it, too, but nuth'n to be done- it's a Thai company in every way. [snicker]

I'm informed that Amity Treaty registrations may become extinct when ( if) Thailand joins AEC. An exisiting co might be worth something then.

Edited May 25, 2014 by EBlair48

[EBlair48]

Out of all the "educational" replies, how many actually had a business in Thailand? from post 15 down

Having a business in Thailand is a walk in the park in comparison to the West admin wise.

In the West, aside from stringent accounting, you need to have all sorts of insurances, licenses, and compliance's.

Firstly, you do not need to rent an office, what you need to do is have a sign in Thai indicating it is your office, so putting a sign on your house and having a "reception" alike room is good enough.

Labor department wants to make sure it is a real business and you are following the rules.

4 staff do not need to wear same uniform or any uniform at all, photo's they want are from the place of work,. staff and you together.in the office and outside with company name clearly showing

Labor Department does not come to check, unless someone reports you.

IF your business is that small, then best to have it all in Thai name 100% and you as an employee on salary

Disagree strongly , having run a business here for almost 4 years, and in USA. In US I obtained a license in about 5 minutes I think it was 20 dollars. I thin filed my own taxes which were easy to understand - in fact all regulations were easy to understand, by law.

There was of course no need to leave the country every 90 days, in fact foreigners in US with work permits and businesses get them for years on end.

How can anyone defend Thailand's obviously flawed foreigner work system? Nickel and dime us t o death- what's this? Can't get a one year B visa without 9 months left on my WP Or is it 8 months? Who really knows?

When you aren't here for prostitutes, it really makes it difficult to excuse the BS- and they know they can get away with it, because of the foreign horn dogs that put up with any manner of flaming hoops to have that access to cheap sex.

When you live in a brothel, you're gonna get F'd

Well you are free to disagree, though do explain for me, why you have to leave every 90 days?

So you are here for cheap sex? is that the reason for running business for almost 4 years?

What regulations do you have trouble understanding?

Why do not you ask someone without US passport what they thought about having a business in US, instead of posting rubbish how easy it is for you.

And do tell what would be the procedure for someone wanting to live in US and have a tiny business which does not make enough to even support an office? Do you think that person would be given visa?

No I'm not here for cheap sex, I maintain the popularity and proximty to it has a real effect on how Thai laws treat foreigners, though.

Last time I applied for the one year extension, taking great care to have the four workers, for real, I was told my income was not enough- I felt the officer was fishing for a handout.

I do have trouble reading regulations in Thai language . Actually as a signatory to ASEAN those rules should be in English, too. Just another way Thailand flouts its own laws to make it harder for foreigners, so agents need to be hired, and those agents can share fees.

The OP has not stated he hasn't an office , just that it is in their home and there is no need to have the added expense of an office.. My office is at my home, as long as it is a registerd address, and you have the landlord's permission, it is legal.

The uniform stuff is new to me, haven't heard that, seems he's getting greassed up for shake down of sort.

Runnng a business in US was a breeze, and any legally residing foreigner can do it too, just as easily.

It's called equal protection and it's certainly not rubbish, probably why everyone wants into the US

Edited May 25, 2014 by EBlair48