International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[northernjohn]

Martyrs ???? in who's eyes ??? near all family have been in court at one time or another---fine example of an upstanding family.

Your last 2 lines are a complete waste of time and space---just a joke. Pathetic to say the least, what a loser if this cr#p is all you can come up with.

Better then next time you don't get excited to reply and rush it. Now you have given us a laugh out of your non rushed reply. Leave it out will you give it all a rest, I fly Emirates via Dubai regular--try it. Dubai is a nice stopover--sure you'd be welcome.

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Are you sure they all voted for Thaksin and Yingluck. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them didn't want Yingluck just Thaksin. Or some didn't want Thaksin just Yingluck.

Then you factor in the reality that 52% didn't want either one of them and your argument is pretty week. They will probably feel like the 52% who didn't want them but got them any how.

You say

"Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?"

If they do so what they will still vote. Chances are they will not vote PTP because PTP allowed it to get so bad the Army had to step in.

Edited June 2, 2014 by northernjohn

[heybruce]

No one is claiming PT isn't corrupt.

Of course there are other ways to force them to clean up their act. In any case, preventing people to vote, frustrating elections and eventually a militairy coup are all not ways of handling with them. And all of them are just as illegal and unacceptable as what you accuse PT off.

But I guess the other side can scream bloody murder but is held to different standards.

And once again I do not support Thaksin or PT, but I do have my eyes open for the wrong doings on both sides. After all is said and done, accepting an election result is what is needed here. There are more than enough ways to ensure wrong doing is dealt with, as was shown by Yinluck's removal from office.

Pay attention. There is far less protectors against the coup than the red shirts had against the PDRC. The people don't care they want peace. They now have it with the exception of as few hard core red shirts. They have been given a plan to bring justice into the government system and then return the government back to the people. The big difference will be that a lot of the corrupt officials will not be running and more honest people will be able to run for office.

Care to enlighten us all on these other methods of getting rid of the crooks. Look how long it took them to get rid of Yingluck the amount of danger she did in her time in the office will take a long time to clean up. They hadn't even started on the rest of the crooks. A finance minister lying to the people and claiming it is OK. They didn't even censure him for it they sanctioned it. In Two weeks the General has managed to do what would take 10 years to do any way you can come up with.

You don't need the patience you would have to have doing things your way.

This is only going to take in the vicinity of a year and it will be done.

Just as they did last time right ?

Last time they also claimed all the things you are talking about. Yet of course that didn't materialize, and it will most certainly not this time around.

Wrong as usual. Even the red shirt leaning media admit that they are getting the corrupt officials out. They of course deny that they are corrupt.

You really should throw the history book away and look out the window at 2014. It is an amazing time to be living in Thailand. You will see history made here. Unlike the previous coups they are not ignoring the crooks they are going after the crooks. People from all sides of the troubles are being asked to explain them selves.

Really? Does that include the Navy officers that Reuters accused of involvement in people trafficking?

[heybruce]

Everyone instead of going back and saying who did what to who why not look forward and try to put the past behind us and make suggestions about how the country should move forward and what should be in the new constitution.

I'll start it off with how about shorter time between elections (2 years) so if there is a problem with any government not too long to wait to vote again.

No protests to block any public highways.

1. Transparent competitive bidding on all government contracts.

2. Transparency in all government spending, including military spending, unless there is a clear and urgent need for secrecy.

3. All government employees with any contract award responsibilities or spending authority, including military officers, must declare all assets and sources of income. If any of these assets or sources of income can be reasonably construed to represent a conflict of interest, the person either divests himself/herself of the assets and income or is removed from any position with contract and spending responsibilities. Severe penalties for non-compliance.

4. Libel laws relaxed so news media can report any verifiable fact without fear of legal consequences.

I can think of others, some of which can not be posted under current rules. I think those listed are the minimum if the government truly wants to significantly reduce corruption. However I don't expect to see any of my list included in the reforms.

By the way, I did not think of these myself and they aren't fantasy rules. All countries with reasonably clean government have and enforce rules similar to these.

Funny, I post some commonly used rules for limiting corruption and state that I don't think these rules will be included in reforms, and nobody comments. Not even the people who are certain the military will eliminate corruption and bring about a system with meaningful transparency. I wonder why?

[englishoak]

Pol Lt-General Detnarong Suthichanbancha of Provincial Police Region 4 Khon Kean said the 279 teams led intelligence and sting operations before laying siege to 500 areas and 2,700 illegal entertainment venues. Some 3,413 suspects were rounded up and slapped with charges ranging from gambling, drug trafficking, prostitution and the illegal possession of arms.

Of those arrested, 382 were charged with illegally possessing arms and 407 guns, 1,028 bullets and seven grenades were seized from them.

source The Nation

All well and good but will we see all regions so thoroughly targeted ? I hope so, meaning Surat Thani etc should experience the same, if this is a proper and honest clear out and crackdown expect every single region of Thailand to have the same treatment including the deep south and Bangkoks sleaze pits, which could obviously very much do with it too.

[sjaak327]

Just as they did last time right ?

Last time they also claimed all the things you are talking about. Yet of course that didn't materialize, and it will most certainly not this time around.

Wrong as usual. Even the red shirt leaning media admit that they are getting the corrupt officials out. They of course deny that they are corrupt.

You really should throw the history book away and look out the window at 2014. It is an amazing time to be living in Thailand. You will see history made here. Unlike the previous coups they are not ignoring the crooks they are going after the crooks. People from all sides of the troubles are being asked to explain them selves.

2014, the year that corruption is rooted out of Thai politics ? No chance in hell. Please use your brain, consider the sides involved and their motivations (which includes the current regime of course).

Corruption in Thai politics (and pretty much the complete society) did exist long before Thaksin entered the scene, and it will continue to exist long after he is gone.

Smoke and Mirrors is all that can be seen here. The rest is utter bullshit.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sjaak327

[glenmohr]

_{A diversion.}

_{When the Japanese colonised Thailand c. 1941, Field Marshal Phibunsongkhram was appointed over all commander of Thailand.}

_{With the power of Japanese backing he commanded that all people living in Thailand adopt the mainstream Bangkok based culture and all regional dialects were banned.}

_{This was very successful and until the end of the 20 th century was effective, Thainess was the order.}

_{To the extent that many folk are completely unaware that the Thai Lanna had their own Kingdom for hundreds of years and the Thai Isaan were Lao people forcibly removed from Laos and re settled in North East Thailand.}

_{Phibun died in exile in japan. He was tried by the Allies for war crimes but actually removed from power here in Thailand by a military coup. ( Do you mean to say they tried this move before??)}

_{The new generations of Thai Isaan and Thai lanna want their identity back. The Bangkok based rulers of Thailand have been very rude to them and sadly they are now turning the tables and being rude back.}

_{At the last census 34 % were Thai Isaan and 19% were Thai Lanna.}

_{There is no way in any future election those 53% of peoples will return a Bangkok based political party. That 53 % closely mirrors what has been happening every time an election is held since the turn of this century.}

_{It has nothing to do with Thaksin any more. It has been written that he paid the voters. It has also been written that if he had not paid the voters the result will be the same.}

_{So remove Thaksin and his family from all this. If he calls me I will tell him I am busy.}

_{So what to do about this majority group who has no self determination at this stage.}

_{The ideal would be the British model of 4 separate regions ( Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and England) with a common head of state and monarch. The United States of Thailand}

_{The only other option would be ethnic cleansing on a massive scale. As they read this from below I can see Pol Pot grinning, Stalin rolling his eyes, and Slobodan actually slobbering at the mouth.}

_{Disclaimer: I am not British, I do not have Thai wife or girlfriend and there is no local influence on my thinking.}

[sjaak327]

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Are you sure they all voted for Thaksin and Yingluck. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them didn't want Yingluck just Thaksin. Or some didn't want Thaksin just Yingluck.

Then you factor in the reality that 52% didn't want either one of them and your argument is pretty week. They will probably feel like the 52% who didn't want them but got them any how.

You say

"Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?"

If they do so what they will still vote. Chances are they will not vote PTP because PTP allowed it to get so bad the Army had to step in.

Ah, so now it is PT that caused the army to step in, Suthep and his demonstrators are not to blame right ?

Yet when Thai citizens were denied their democratic right to cast their votes and to run for office last february, the army was nowhere to be seen.

Nor was the current administration able or willing to do anything about it.

Talk about one sided arguments..

[Publicus]

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

There are just a couple of points here, so I put your statements in Italics:

Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars.

If so, then so would Suthep, Abhisit and a lot of others to include any 2006 mutineers that might be still hanging around.

The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup .

That would be tens of millions of Thais, about 40 foreign governments among those that have chosen to say anything, almost all of the global MSM, perhaps a hundred civil society groups globally, and a baker's dozen of fahlang in Thailand. As for the tiny clique among us in Thailand, our biggest problem is mmmfffffgggh!

is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people

Surely there is ample official documentation that identifies the "terror" groups and the "terror acts" over the years, to include all the "terrorizing [of] people" that is alleged in the post. Trouble is, I haven't seen any official pronouncements of terrorism in Thailand, or at least not north of Hat Hai, or perhaps if we stretch it, north of Phuket. Help me out here please with the official stuff, thx.

Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

I bought a strong portable night lamp and go out after work each night to search for a disappeared constitution. Maybe you wanna help out in this effort? It's the constitution that said a free and fair election could happen. In fact, Feb 2nd was the authorized date. ......Still searching.....

Not playing politics.

Indeed, some take it all rather seriously, not to mention being completely one-sided about it

[sjaak327]

^ Thailand, the hub of disappeared constitutions.

They lost two in the last 7.5 years alone !

Now the wait is for another watered down version to be presented in typical take it or leave it fashion.

[heybruce]

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Are you sure they all voted for Thaksin and Yingluck. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them didn't want Yingluck just Thaksin. Or some didn't want Thaksin just Yingluck.

Then you factor in the reality that 52% didn't want either one of them and your argument is pretty week. They will probably feel like the 52% who didn't want them but got them any how.

You say

"Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?"

If they do so what they will still vote. Chances are they will not vote PTP because PTP allowed it to get so bad the Army had to step in.

I wrote:

"Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?"

and you asked:

"Are you sure they all voted for Thaksin and Yingluck."

Yes I'm sure the people who voted for Thaksin and Yingluck voted for Thaksin and Yingluck. That's why I phrased the question that way.

Also:

"Then you factor in the reality that 52% didn't want either one of them and your argument is pretty week."

Among the 52% were parties much more in line with PTP than with the Democrats, which is why the PTP had no problem forming a dominating coalition and the election was such a crushing defeat for the Democrats. Among the voters for parties much more in sync with PTP than Democrats I'm sure there will be many who remember the coup during the next election, and they won't remember it favorably.

Finally:

"If they do so what they will still vote. Chances are they will not vote PTP because PTP allowed it to get so bad the Army had to step in."

I'm sure the dedicated Democrats will blame the PTP for the coup. I doubt that the rest of the country will do so, and the rest of the country is in the majority.

[sumtingwong]

How many elections did they win where more than 50% of the Thais voted for them? Exactly.

Good question, when was the last time any party won with more than 50% of Thai's voting for them? If you insist on counting non-voters in the calculation, never.

Better question, how is this relevant to anything being discussed? I'll let sumtingwong answer that one.

I did not insist on counting non-voters. they got less than 50% of the Thais that voted. So of course they also got less than 50% of all eligible voters. It is relevant when the PTP and their supporters insist that the majority of the Thais voted for them when that is not true. And that the military is acting against the wishes of the majority of the Thais, again not true. Now if you want an example of military acting against the wishes of the majority of the voters then all you have to do is look to Egypt. Got it?

[sumtingwong]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

Piichai-this poster has just got this thing about % in past elections and land slides and and ??? the point being it's all old hat, but we still have these rose brothers bashing out about past elections-and democracy------after all that has been revealed---and there is more---for sure.

Its old hat but the way electoral systems run, now until there is a better way its the best thats out there to date, unless you consider the China dictatorial/capitalist model better or communism or dictatorship or absolute monarchy better.

Either you believe in rule by peoples choice or rule by force.

Stable rule of law and consistency or instability, disregard of law and inconsistency

Equality for all or not

Liberty or suppression

I believe in the all former and none of the latter,it brings inconveniences, problems of its own sure, warts and all, but to expect fair treatment you must also afford that to those you oppose. including the very worst of society youd rather not have to, end of the day determination to have equality not only for us but our children drives us to accept all others must be treated as youd want to be.... or it means nothing.

It is open to interpretation of course as humans where that line is and its human nature to suppose we are always in the right and all others are not......... the truth lays somewhere in the middle as none of us do everything right all of the time. There must be an acceptance and serious consideration of others opinions all the time, take them seriously and also be flexible enough to admit when they are right and you are wrong and most of all adopt those ideals when others have it right and you dont. Not because it proves you were wrong and shows weakness but because it is the right thing to do and is actually a strength. It also allows others to consider when your right and them wrong and do the same, benefiting one and all.

This is how slavery was abolished, this is how women got the vote, this is how racism is being eroded. it is respect for others ideas when you may not be able to form them yourself. This is progress.

Reconciliation im all for but to do that it must be totally inclusive and not exclusive nor dismissive and suppressive. And im not talking about allowing violence but I am talking about compromise and making your opponent feel they are getting taken seriously and opinions respected. It also has to be done by example and in clear view. there must also be the will to punish to the full one of your own when they fail, openly and immediately. This promotes trust, openness, honesty and shows your serious. Only then will there be cohesion and progress.

It could be described in a nutshell as human rights but human rights do not really exist, in truth they are only temporary privileges if they can be taken away at a whim or by force. To stop that happening certain rights must be embedded central to any constitution or book of law. They should not be open to suspension if at all possible and certainly not on a regular basis.

Many here will say, well its needed here now, then again its Thailand where its been that excuse many times over in the past, it should be a one off not a trump card to be played again and again, if it is then its clearly a flawed solution, At some point I hope there is the realisation that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result in the longterm is just a form of insanity.

I agree with you, the Shinawatra dictatorship acted just like the latter and should have been removed, and was removed. All is right with the world and more importantly Thailand.

[sjaak327]

How many elections did they win where more than 50% of the Thais voted for them? Exactly.

Good question, when was the last time any party won with more than 50% of Thai's voting for them? If you insist on counting non-voters in the calculation, never.

Better question, how is this relevant to anything being discussed? I'll let sumtingwong answer that one.

I did not insist on counting non-voters. they got less than 50% of the Thais that voted. So of course they also got less than 50% of all eligible voters. It is relevant when the PTP and their supporters insist that the majority of the Thais voted for them when that is not true. And that the military is acting against the wishes of the majority of the Thais, again not true. Now if you want an example of military acting against the wishes of the majority of the voters then all you have to do is look to Egypt. Got it?

Again, the coup ousted the Thai government, a government consisting of several parties, over 52% of votes casts went to those parties, resulting in 300 out of 500 seats. So both in terms of actual votes and seats a clear majority. And not only is it crystal clear that the military has acted against the vast majority of Thai voters (which no doubt is more then the 52% discussed) the acted against the constitution which they themselves drafted.

What Egypt has to do with anything clearly escapes me, I believe the Thai society has ample work dealing with their own, no need to worry about Egypt.

[sumtingwong]

How many elections did they win where more than 50% of the Thais voted for them? Exactly.

Good question, when was the last time any party won with more than 50% of Thai's voting for them? If you insist on counting non-voters in the calculation, never.

Better question, how is this relevant to anything being discussed? I'll let sumtingwong answer that one.

I did not insist on counting non-voters. they got less than 50% of the Thais that voted. So of course they also got less than 50% of all eligible voters. It is relevant when the PTP and their supporters insist that the majority of the Thais voted for them when that is not true. And that the military is acting against the wishes of the majority of the Thais, again not true. Now if you want an example of military acting against the wishes of the majority of the voters then all you have to do is look to Egypt. Got it?

Again, the coup ousted the Thai government, a government consisting of several parties, over 52% of votes casts went to those parties, resulting in 300 out of 500 seats. So both in terms of actual votes and seats a clear majority. And not only is it crystal clear that the military has acted against the vast majority of Thai voters (which no doubt is more then the 52% discussed) the acted against the constitution which they themselves drafted.

What Egypt has to do with anything clearly escapes me, I believe the Thai society has ample work dealing with their own, no need to worry about Egypt.

Egypt is just an example of a real coup, in fact two of them. I do not believe that the Thail military did a real coup since a coup by definition is the illegal seizure of power from the government. I believe the Thai military did it legally as is sanctioned in the Thai constitution. Am I wrong?

Definition coup ko͞o/ noun

noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coups d'état; plural noun: coup d'états

1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

[sjaak327]

^ I understand your confusion. After all the people who excecuted the coup were confused as well, the first day it wasn't a coup, yet a few days later it was !

The first disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted without militairy intervention in 1997) certainly didn't legalize the militairy seizing power.

I can't believe that the second disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted with militairy intervention in 2007) does sanction the militairy seizing power. If it indeed does, I understand the necessity to change it !

The militairy should serve the Thai Nation and it's people, it should never govern them.

[sumtingwong]

^ I understand your confusion. After all the people who excecuted the coup were confused as well, the first day it wasn't a coup, yet a few days later it was !

The first disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted without militairy intervention in 1997) certainly didn't legalize the militairy seizing power.

I can't believe that the second disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted with militairy intervention in 2007) does sanction the militairy seizing power. If it indeed does, I understand the necessity to change it !

The militairy should serve the Thai Nation and it's people, it should never govern them.

One could argue they are serving them by preventing two warring parties from creating a bloodbath or worse a civil war. One might have wished the German military had taken over Germany and ousted Hitler. Millions of lives would have been saved.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sumtingwong

[heybruce]

How many elections did they win where more than 50% of the Thais voted for them? Exactly.

Good question, when was the last time any party won with more than 50% of Thai's voting for them? If you insist on counting non-voters in the calculation, never.

Better question, how is this relevant to anything being discussed? I'll let sumtingwong answer that one.

I did not insist on counting non-voters. they got less than 50% of the Thais that voted. So of course they also got less than 50% of all eligible voters. It is relevant when the PTP and their supporters insist that the majority of the Thais voted for them when that is not true. And that the military is acting against the wishes of the majority of the Thais, again not true. Now if you want an example of military acting against the wishes of the majority of the voters then all you have to do is look to Egypt. Got it?

I expanded your question to ask how in many elections did anyone get more than 50%. I think that's as relevant as your original question. If you are asking how many elections did someone win more than 50% of votes cast, according to Wikipedia that would be the election in 2005 when Thaksin received over 60% of the votes.

"the military is acting against the wishes of the majority of the Thais, again not true."

Are you sure of that? Maybe the military could have a referendum; ask the people to vote on continuing with military rule or go back to plans for a July election. Which do you think would win?

"Now if you want an example of military acting against the wishes of the majority of the voters then all you have to do is look to Egypt"

Interesting that you'd state that less than a week after the former general who staged the last coup won an overwhelming election victory. Not that I'm picking sides in that mess, I don't know nearly enough about the details of Egypt's problems, but I've read that both sides blame the US.

[sjaak327]

^ I understand your confusion. After all the people who excecuted the coup were confused as well, the first day it wasn't a coup, yet a few days later it was !

The first disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted without militairy intervention in 1997) certainly didn't legalize the militairy seizing power.

I can't believe that the second disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted with militairy intervention in 2007) does sanction the militairy seizing power. If it indeed does, I understand the necessity to change it !

The militairy should serve the Thai Nation and it's people, it should never govern them.

One could argue they are serving them by preventing two warring parties from creating a bloodbath or worse a civil war. One might have wished the German military had taken over Germany and ousted Hitler. Millions of lives would have been saved.

I doubt the situation was even close to a civil war. I know for sure the situation is complete different from the one back in the 30's of the previous century in Germany. The Thai military has no business trying to run the country and it has shown repeatedly that it is incapable of doing so.

[djjamie]

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Don't you think that the PTP and UDD that denounce anyone that disagrees with them are fake will be forgotten.

Fake Monks.

Fake Farmers.

Fake articles.

Fake polls.

Fake expats!!

I think that's your somewhat unique take on the PTP and UDD.

Thanks.

Kind Regards,

From the 2 week millionaire!!!

Please tell me I am on your ignore list? That leaves 3 left.

[Living in a cartoon]

I dunno. You guys insult each other for something to do I guess. I don't get it.

Politics, like war, is a way to resolve conflict.

I can't be exhaustive as to what I think democracy is. But it does involve balance of power among the organs of government, rule of law with swift and sure punishment for transgressors (especially public officials), and free and fair elections on a regular and predictable schedule.

I believe that this coup may be different than what has come previously. The situation surely needed to be cooled down, allow people to reflect on what their values are, and collectively decide the direction they want go.

The preamble to the US Constitution may be something that the Thai's want to consider for reconciliation:

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I hope that Thailand can progress. Most Thai's are very nice people and deserve better.

My 2 cents.

[heybruce]

^ I understand your confusion. After all the people who excecuted the coup were confused as well, the first day it wasn't a coup, yet a few days later it was !

The first disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted without militairy intervention in 1997) certainly didn't legalize the militairy seizing power.

I can't believe that the second disappeared constitution (the one that was drafted with militairy intervention in 2007) does sanction the militairy seizing power. If it indeed does, I understand the necessity to change it !

The militairy should serve the Thai Nation and it's people, it should never govern them.

One could argue they are serving them by preventing two warring parties from creating a bloodbath or worse a civil war. One might have wished the German military had taken over Germany and ousted Hitler. Millions of lives would have been saved.

One could also argue that the military didn't need to stage a coup to do that, they could have just limited Suthep and his minions to peaceful protests with no interference of the proposed election. In addition one could argue that Thailand was no where close to a civil war before the coup.

Regarding the Hitler analogy, I'm pretty sure the PTP had no plans to annex the Sudetenland or invade Poland. In fact I don't think they had any annexation or invasion plans at all. Your analogy is quite a stretch.

[sumtingwong]

The long Thai history of legalized coups.

"Dynamics and Institutionalization of Coup in Thai Constitution"

http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Publish/Download/Vrf/pdf/483.pdf

BTW, the commie red-shirts did declare a civil war, so it is not a stretch:

"'Ko Tee' declares war"
"Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls"
"Hell is coming, and he rides on a fiery red horse. At least that’s what Chalerm Yubamrung is promising."

[heybruce]

The long Thai history of legalized coups.

"Dynamics and Institutionalization of Coup in Thai Constitution"

http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Publish/Download/Vrf/pdf/483.pdf

BTW, the commie red-shirts did declare a civil war, so it is not a stretch:

"'Ko Tee' declares war"

"Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls"

"Hell is coming, and he rides on a fiery red horse. At least that’s what Chalerm Yubamrung is promising."

I see, you don't distinguish between rhetoric and reality. You must have found Suthep's countless final pushes confusing.

Edited June 2, 2014 by heybruce

[Fat Haggis]

There has been a civil war ongoing in the South for the past 10 years, so to state that the country was close to civil war is an injustice to those innocents who have lost their lives through this war, you can't be "close" to a civil war when you're already engaged in one!!

[englishoak]

There has been a civil war ongoing in the South for the past 10 years, so to state that the country was close to civil war is an injustice to those innocents who have lost their lives through this war, you can't be "close" to a civil war when you're already engaged in one!!

Shhh dont alarm the tourists

[sumtingwong]

Yes, it could be argued that the ideology of the southern tip provinces and the northern red-shirt provinces have both been at civil war against the rest of Thailand. They each want to impose their version of totalitarianism. I hope neither achieves it.

[Maestro]

Removed a post with messed up quotes and the reply to it.

[sjaak327]

Yes, it could be argued that the ideology of the southern tip provinces and the northern red-shirt provinces have both been at civil war against the rest of Thailand. They each want to impose their version of totalitarianism. I hope neither achieves it.

And I am sure neither of those actually want to impose it.

To see a version of totalitarianism, where curfews are in place, people are detained without any legal basis and freedom of speech is being restricted by committees and agencies with fancy names, one just has to go to Bangkok. It is all there.

Thailand was run by an inept and corrupt government with a clear electoral mandate and is now run by an inept and corrupt government which completely lacks any electoral mandate.

[sumtingwong]

And are doing a much better job of it than the previous administration. I am sure they do not want to be in the politics business and will return Thailand to civilian rule as they have always done. But if they have to find the proverbial ten righteous people amongst the Thai politicians, it could be a long wait.

Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

[englishoak]

And are doing a much better job of it than the previous administration. I am sure they do not want to be in the politics business and will return Thailand to civilian rule as they have always done. But if they have to find the proverbial ten righteous people amongst the Thai politicians, it could be a long wait.

Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

Honeymoon periods always seem like that.