International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Nickymaster]

About time TV mopped up the Rouge propagandists, and got consistent with what can be posted.

You have a problem with a post just report it to the mods. Though they have asked members not to make frivolous reports - that includes reporting posts just because you don't happen to agree with either the content or the poster, or both.

Says the guy that was banned before (phipidon) and returned under a different name. Please stop the hypocrisy fab4. Man up!

[timewilltell]

Yes the EU report is damning and significant. Unfortunately it fails to appreciate that Thailand already had an bad human rights record before the coup and that the politicians had done nothing over successive governments to clamp down on it and had repeatedly stolen vast sums from the national coffers. The EU with its overfed, ill informed and out of touch bureaucrats who seem to think Thailand's version of democracy is much the same as theirs. They probably also think Thailand's rule law is much the same as theirs. Neither are!

I am sure they do not fully understand what is going on, an I am sure

I don't either. There may come a time in the near future when democratic elections will be prudent and sensible. Perhaps the EU did not see that Thailand was on its way to civil war and the politicians had achieved zero compromise in the six months they were messing about, in fact they created even more hatred and divisiveness.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

You're saying that the EU have taken this issue solely because of the human rights record?

What part of this do you not understand

It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

As I said there will come a time for democratic elections but not when the country is on the brink of civil war and the politicians on either side are not credible. In the meantime the corruption cleanup by the junta is to be cheered and I hope it continues until the notion of corruption from politicians and local government officials becomes social unacceptable? Let's get the house in order before we let loose the unwashed back into politics.

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[thaibeachlovers]

It's the European Union taking a stance, not individual MEP's, but if you want to detract from the message being made, feel free.

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

So the EU allows the Greek government to steal it's citizen's money from banks, and doesn't want to upset Putin by supporting Ukraine. Case of "pot" and "kettle" methinks.

[razorramone]

So the EU allows the Greek government to steal it's citizen's money from banks, and doesn't want to upset Putin by supporting Ukraine. Case of "pot" and "kettle" methinks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[citizen33]

About time TV mopped up the Rouge propagandists, and got consistent with what can be posted.

Please read today's TVF news thread for wonderful news about how you might benefit by 500 baht per time from taking a more active stance on this issue. There may also be openings for Blockleiters soon.

[Fat Haggis]

Yes the EU report is damning and significant. Unfortunately it fails to appreciate that Thailand already had an bad human rights record before the coup and that the politicians had done nothing over successive governments to clamp down on it and had repeatedly stolen vast sums from the national coffers. The EU with its overfed, ill informed and out of touch bureaucrats who seem to think Thailand's version of democracy is much the same as theirs. They probably also think Thailand's rule law is much the same as theirs. Neither are!

I am sure they do not fully understand what is going on, an I am sure

I don't either. There may come a time in the near future when democratic elections will be prudent and sensible. Perhaps the EU did not see that Thailand was on its way to civil war and the politicians had achieved zero compromise in the six months they were messing about, in fact they created even more hatred and divisiveness.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

You're saying that the EU have taken this issue solely because of the human rights record?

What part of this do you not understand

It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

As I said there will come a time for democratic elections but not when the country is on the brink of civil war and the politicians on either side are not credible. In the meantime the corruption cleanup by the junta is to be cheered and I hope it continues until the notion of corruption from politicians and local government officials becomes social unacceptable? Let's get the house in order before we let loose the unwashed back into politics.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I didn't realise that the 10 year old civil war down in the South was in a different country then?

[Rimmer]

A flame and some replies have been removed

[fab4]

Post removed - my comments about flaming have been anticipated.

Edited June 24, 2014 by fab4

[ggold]

As I said there will come a time for democratic elections but not when the country is on the brink of civil war and the politicians on either side are not credible. In the meantime the corruption cleanup by the junta is to be cheered and I hope it continues until the notion of corruption from politicians and local government officials becomes social unacceptable? Let's get the house in order before we let loose the unwashed back into politics.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I didn't realise that the 10 year old civil war down in the South was in a different country then?

To say that in the south there is civil war is a total exageration if not a lie!

[heybruce]

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Doesn't that sort of have a double meaning?Actually it is a stupid statement to make.

Actually it is a stupid statement.

It neglects to say that you may support the election but you do not have to support it when the government openly in your face robs you blind admits they lied and then say it is OK to lie because a lie makes you feel good and the truth you would not like. That is not what the people elected them for and the people have a right indeed a moral right to demand an end to it. They tried peacefully and the government just sent their PM on a shopping trip and called a convicted criminal on the run and living Dubai to escape a two year jail sentence impose on him by his own party. He instructed them to ignore the people.

Just dropping in again to see if the whiners and snivelers were still here. They should move to Miramar the corruption is worse there than it was under the PTP and they are a democracy. That way they would be able to have their cake and eat it to.

a win win situation for them.

"if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist."

Stupid? How so? It's a common occurrence in democracies all over the world; people who can't accept that their candidate lost and insist that the correct response is to somehow change, or eliminate, democracy. The Democrats seem incapable of winning an election and so declined to participate, if only they had put as much energy into making themselves electable as they put into toppling the elected government.

You overlook the fact that the PTP government tried to hold elections, giving people the right to replace them. The current government doesn't want people to talk about elections.

[heybruce]

As I said there will come a time for democratic elections but not when the country is on the brink of civil war and the politicians on either side are not credible. In the meantime the corruption cleanup by the junta is to be cheered and I hope it continues until the notion of corruption from politicians and local government officials becomes social unacceptable? Let's get the house in order before we let loose the unwashed back into politics.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I didn't realise that the 10 year old civil war down in the South was in a different country then?

To say that in the south there is civil war is a total exageration if not a lie!

The same can be said about the claim that the country was on the brink of civil war.

[ggold]

As I said there will come a time for democratic elections but not when the country is on the brink of civil war and the politicians on either side are not credible. In the meantime the corruption cleanup by the junta is to be cheered and I hope it continues until the notion of corruption from politicians and local government officials becomes social unacceptable? Let's get the house in order before we let loose the unwashed back into politics.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I didn't realise that the 10 year old civil war down in the South was in a different country then?

To say that in the south there is civil war is a total exageration if not a lie!

The same can be said about the claim that the country was on the brink of civil war.

given a couple more weeks and it may very well have happened! There would have only been one way to find out if that were true, But then The army might have had a fight on it's hands!

[ggold]

Yes the EU report is damning and significant. Unfortunately it fails to appreciate that Thailand already had an bad human rights record before the coup and that the politicians had done nothing over successive governments to clamp down on it and had repeatedly stolen vast sums from the national coffers. The EU with its overfed, ill informed and out of touch bureaucrats who seem to think Thailand's version of democracy is much the same as theirs. They probably also think Thailand's rule law is much the same as theirs. Neither are!

I am sure they do not fully understand what is going on, an I am sure

I don't either. There may come a time in the near future when democratic elections will be prudent and sensible. Perhaps the EU did not see that Thailand was on its way to civil war and the politicians had achieved zero compromise in the six months they were messing about, in fact they created even more hatred and divisiveness.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

You're saying that the EU have taken this issue solely because of the human rights record?

What part of this do you not understand

It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

Yes but they are not saying that the previous government was legitimate or that the constitution was working. Mearly that there sould be a legitimate democracy and constitution and inclusive elections be held. With PTP it was always do as we say not as we do. they were far from inclusive.

It might be that politicians have been put out of harms way temporarilly, I can imagine the likes of Chalerm might have a imaginary target pinned on him and that many might like to take that shot! Others might call on him to cut his head off as promised. It also stops those corrupt officials from doing a runner. I think Thaksin would have a full house if they all managed to run to their dear laeder!

Mind you I'm still waiting for someone to cancel the Criminal Thaksin's pasport

[tagranados]

Can someone please give me links to good sources? I'm fairly new to following the politics closely. Thank you for your thoughts : )

[heybruce]

I didn't realise that the 10 year old civil war down in the South was in a different country then?

To say that in the south there is civil war is a total exageration if not a lie!

The same can be said about the claim that the country was on the brink of civil war.

given a couple more weeks and it may very well have happened! There would have only been one way to find out if that were true, But then The army might have had a fight on it's hands!

I don't recall things being that much on edge, in fact the peak in disruptions had passed many weeks earlier. I also think the army only had to state that it wanted elections to happen and it wouldn't tolerate illegal disruptions and things would have gone off smoothly.

[ggold]

To say that in the south there is civil war is a total exageration if not a lie!

The same can be said about the claim that the country was on the brink of civil war.

given a couple more weeks and it may very well have happened! There would have only been one way to find out if that were true, But then The army might have had a fight on it's hands!

I don't recall things being that much on edge, in fact the peak in disruptions had passed many weeks earlier. I also think the army only had to state that it wanted elections to happen and it wouldn't tolerate illegal disruptions and things would have gone off smoothly.

To my recollection certain PTP members were ratcheting up the retoric re thrid hands and the UDD declerations of what they would do if a coup was attempted. But yes on the streets it did not appaer as if civil war was kicking off. Maybe it was a pre-emtive move on the part of the Military. OR agendas certain people were pushing.

[JAG]

According to the Bangkok Post, The US is considering moving the annual Cobra Gold exercise programme away from Thailand.

NCPOs response is along the lines of " It will hurt the US more than us".

Hmm, perhaps, big loss of face though, and it is rather my impression that "face" is what Cobra Gold is about.

Edited June 25, 2014 by JAG

[tagranados]

Thailand's "Open Letter" to the West (satire)

http://www.asiasentinel.com/society/open-letter-thai-junta/

[Gomyway]

Just read about the EU sanctions:

The time for an economic sanction by the EU could not be more worse for Thailand than now. This has to do with the fact that the EU tariff preferences for all exports from Thailand will be deleted until the end of 2014 regardless of the military coup and the since 2013 ongoing negotiations on an EU-Thailand FTA will be exposed, which is of vital importance for Thailands industries such as fishing, textile and automotive industry.

This is the reaction: „Wealthy Thais vent anger over sanction with EU goods boycott“ on Financial Times – Link: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0f6e80b8-fdde-11e3-bd0e-00144feab7de.html

[tagranados]

TLand knew these problems would happen, no? It seems like they knew ahead of time that there would be issues with members of the international community. I really don't know, so posing the question to you fine folks. :-)

[Jim walker]

Military Junta don’t give a flying <deleted> what foreign countries think as long as they just keep spending money by investment or purchasing goods from Thailand, the next civilian government can sort out the small simple diplomatic side of things when they return to power we are only the military just sitting in the barracks like a coiled spring just ready to pounce on anyone invading our borders, dare they forget we have aircraft carriers at the ready almost.

[wolf5370]

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

Game,set and match!

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Erm, Kim Philby (Stanley), Donald Duart Maclean (Homer), Guy Burgess (Hicks) and Anthony Blunt (Johnson) - the Cambridge Four - were also Cambridge alumni, does say so much for honesty there then!

It says nothing relevant at all about honesty or indeed much else except perhaps the influence of Marxism among students during the rise of fascism in the 1930's, but the fact you apparently think it does tells a great deal about your level of intellectual sophistication.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Wow! So I say that your implication that being educated "beside the Cam or the Cherwell" somehow imbued him with godly reporting prowess, depth and honesty, does not carry - and that you take that to mean that I believe it suggests the opposite. Like it is not possible to say someone else is wrong, without inferring the OPPOSITE is true. [At the risk of confusing you - There are infinite 'wrongs' to any problem, that would therefore, by your confused logic, make at least one other 'wrong', 'right' anytime any other is dismissed (correctly so) as being incorrect!] Then you have the audacity to attempt to slight my intellectual sophistication - ROFL. To misquote Hawkin (another fellow for you) "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's jackasses all the way down!"

[kaobang]

i want to paste something i found on the facebook page of ..some british-thai lady

"The .... is now using the hi-tech machine to find out detailed information of FB users. This machine was furnished to the Thai Narcotics Suppression Division of the Thai Police Department by the United States' Department of Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). This is an illegal use of the highly sensitive and sophisticated equipment to conduct anti-human rights activities. This is not in line with the agreement that the Thai government signed and acknowledged prior to acceptance of the equipment! So please be careful and never reveal your true identity unless you are outside of ..."

what is this machine???

Edited June 29, 2014 by kaobang

[thaibeachlovers]

i want to paste something i found on the facebook page of ..some british-thai lady

"The .... is now using the hi-tech machine to find out detailed information of FB users. This machine was furnished to the Thai Narcotics Suppression Division of the Thai Police Department by the United States' Department of Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). This is an illegal use of the highly sensitive and sophisticated equipment to conduct anti-human rights activities. This is not in line with the agreement that the Thai government signed and acknowledged prior to acceptance of the equipment! So please be careful and never reveal your true identity unless you are outside of ..."

what is this machine???

If they read my wife's FB they'll be bored to death reading about what she ate last night, complete with photos.

I suspect it'd be the same for many Thai FB users.