Retirement Funds - 800,000 Baht

[BillBilous]

I am at this moment I am going through the process of obtaining my retirement visa

Could someone please confirm for me

i know i must have 800,00 bht to show to immigration

my question is

my UK Pension is approx 15,000 Sterling before Tax

but 12,500 Sterling after tax

DO the immigration look at the Gross or Net figures

Where do i go to PROVE the funds ?

are immigration happy to see the funds in two places ...i.e from a UK Pension and money in a Thai Bank

Last question

How long mist the money be in place in a thai Bank

as ever your guidance and help is appreciated

[chiang mai]

The THB 800k must be on deposit for two months in the first year of the visa and three months for every year thereafter.

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

You can use a 50/50 combination of deposit and income rather just exclusively one or the other.

Income funds can be proved by taking your bank statements and pension documentation to the Embassy who will certify the source.

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

[PHP87]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

Edited May 24, 2014 by PHP87

[chiang mai]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

Yes that's correct, I did not mean to imply that it had to be exactly 50%, more that it could be a combination of the two things.

[ubonjoe]

For the combination of income and money in a Thai there is no requirement for the money to be in the bank other than on the date of application according to the rules. But there are a few offices that will want it to be in the bank for 60 day for the first extension and 3 months after that.

[BillBilous]

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For the combination of income and money in a Thai there is no requirement for the money to be in the bank other than on the date of application according to the rules. But there are a few offices that will want it to be in the bank for 60 day for the first extension and 3 months after that.

Thanks to you all for your advise

[AYJAYDEE]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

is there no income tax payable at the $21,600 level?

[ubonjoe]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

is there no income tax payable at the $21,600 level?

Why are you asking about taxes? It is the gross income not net after deductions that is used for extensions.

[CharlesHH]

I just sent an email to the US Embassy BKK asking what do they have to see, documents, to certify my monthly income. Hope they or someone answers.

[KhunBENQ]

my UK Pension is approx 15,000 Sterling before Tax

but 12,500 Sterling after tax

12500 GPB * 54 = 675'000 THB

Put 200'000 THB on the account and you are on the safe side (with some margin).

Edited May 24, 2014 by KhunBENQ

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just sent an email to the US Embassy BKK asking what do they have to see, documents, to certify my monthly income. Hope they or someone answers.

You swear under oath that the amount you are stating on your document is correct.

There is no requirement about providing documentation to the Consulate, though Thai Immigration is free to request documentation if they desire, which they usually don't.

[dinger]

I just sent an email to the US Embassy BKK asking what do they have to see, documents, to certify my monthly income. Hope they or someone answers.

Embassy statement is pretty easy from U S Embassy in BKK but you need to go there in person.

1. Make an appointment online, they won't let you in with out one, except in an emergency. Appointment are usually already booked about 1 to 2 weeks. Make a copy of your appointment and take it with you

2. Gather what ever you have to verify your income. Get what you have easily available as more than likely you won't need any of it.

When you get to the Embassy don't wait in the long line on the left, just go up to the window and show them your appointment and you get right in

3 When you check in tell them you need to do a verification of income statement and they will give you the form, I think you can download the form on the embassy website. You fill in the income amount

4. Fill out and take to cashier and pay fee around $50 U S

5. Next you will be called up to the window and asked to check over the form and verify that everything is correct. Once that is done you will be asked if you swear that all statements are true to the best of you knowledge. If you answer yes they will notarize it and you are all finished.

I know I will get a bunch of feed back on this but I just did it last month and this was my 7th time, same procedure

Also I recently read that the Thai gvmt. has extended the validity time of this statement up 6 months

[AYJAYDEE]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

is there no income tax payable at the $21,600 level?

Why are you asking about taxes? It is the gross income not net after deductions that is used for extensions.

because I believed chiang mai's post above. is he mistaken?

[Head Snake]

I just sent an email to the US Embassy BKK asking what do they have to see, documents, to certify my monthly income. Hope they or someone answers.

Embassy statement is pretty easy from U S Embassy in BKK but you need to go there in person.

1. Make an appointment online, they won't let you in with out one, except in an emergency. Appointment are usually already booked about 1 to 2 weeks. Make a copy of your appointment and take it with you

2. Gather what ever you have to verify your income. Get what you have easily available as more than likely you won't need any of it.

When you get to the Embassy don't wait in the long line on the left, just go up to the window and show them your appointment and you get right in

3 When you check in tell them you need to do a verification of income statement and they will give you the form, I think you can download the form on the embassy website. You fill in the income amount

4. Fill out and take to cashier and pay fee around $50 U S

5. Next you will be called up to the window and asked to check over the form and verify that everything is correct. Once that is done you will be asked if you swear that all statements are true to the best of you knowledge. If you answer yes they will notarize it and you are all finished.

I know I will get a bunch of feed back on this but I just did it last month and this was my 7th time, same procedure

Also I recently read that the Thai gvmt. has extended the validity time of this statement up 6 months

You only forgot one thing. Make sure you take your passport with you.

Set up the appointment early as if you need to make any copies or get more data, then they allow you to return the same day on the same appointment letter.

[dinger]

Ahh yes, passport, don't leave home without it as they say in the commercial

[ubonjoe]

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

,<snipped>

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

Income for extensions is gross income not net.

If using the combination option the money just has to be in the bank on date of application.

[aarn]

My most recent attempt to renew annual annual extension, on the basis of retirement, was thwarted on three counts.

This was using combined income/bank deposit method, at the DanSingKon office (Prachuap KK province), lte March 2013..

1/. I did not provide the original documentation, upon which the income statement (from Australian embassy) was based

2/. The funds in the bank to exceed a total of 800kB had only been there for 56 days!

3/. I did not provided a recent rent reciept - although I had done this changing adress, five months previously.

AND AND AND I would probably have been knocked back because there was only one (damaged) page left in passport.

So SNAFU for me, but I guess the OP and others may be interested to know:

bring as much documentation as possible to the locel Immi Office

be prepared for all sorts of interpretations of the regulations (and beware: some translations of the regulations posted here are [informed] interpretations).

Good luck, AA

[chiang mai]

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

,<snipped>

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

Income for extensions is gross income not net.

If using the combination option the money just has to be in the bank on date of application.

That makes absolutely no sense to me that overseas gross income could be used, such income could be subject to irrecoverable tax with holdings of 40%, meaning the net amount received in country is only 60% of the minimum amount required by Immigration. Are you absolutely certain about what you've written?

There's a whole thread on this subject, it seems it depends on the Embassy and what the individual presents to it. There can be no doubt however that the intent of the rule was for people to supply the net figure, I don't believe that supplying the gross amount is much more than simply taking advantage of an opportunity and perhaps poor English language skills on the part of Immigration staff..

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/378930-65000-baht-monthly-minimum-income-limit-for-annual-extensions-of-stay-based-on-retirement/

Edited May 24, 2014 by chiang mai

[balo]

Or you can just visit a well known immigration office and they will know how you can get 800k in a thai bank and paying 20k for it . TIT .

[ubonjoe]

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

,<snipped>

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

Income for extensions is gross income not net.

If using the combination option the money just has to be in the bank on date of application.

That makes absolutely no sense to me that overseas gross income could be used, such income could be subject to irrecoverable tax with holdings of 40%, meaning the net amount received in country is only 60% of the minimum amount required by Immigration. Are you absolutely certain about what you've written?

It is gross income. That has been discussed on this forum many times.

If you are from a country that takes 40% of your pension income from you I feel sorry for you.

[chiang mai]

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

,<snipped>

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

Income for extensions is gross income not net.

If using the combination option the money just has to be in the bank on date of application.

That makes absolutely no sense to me that overseas gross income could be used, such income could be subject to irrecoverable tax with holdings of 40%, meaning the net amount received in country is only 60% of the minimum amount required by Immigration. Are you absolutely certain about what you've written?

It is gross income. That has been discussed on this forum many times.

If you are from a country that takes 40% of your pension income from you I feel sorry for you.

There's loads of countries around the world that have maximum income tax rates in excess of 40%, including Canada, Australia, Israel, Denmark, Belgium, France and so on. Belgium comes in at 65% so you see the problem using the gross figure presents. My personal opinion is that using gross is a scam, a loophole that will get closed down eventually, most of them do, sooner or later.

[IBoldnewguy]

My understanding was that you can make up any shortfall of 800k in annual income with a bank deposit and it does not have to be a 50/50 split.

Example: My US Social Security will be about $1800 USD per month if I retire at age 62, or $21,600 (About 700k BTH) so I would only have to put 100k BTH on deposit in a Thai Bank.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727315-retirement-visa/?p=7851293

is there no income tax payable at the $21,600 level?

Why are you asking about taxes? It is the gross income not net after deductions that is used for extensions.

because I believed chiang mai's post above. is he mistaken?

FYI - SS is tax free up to $25k - the formula is SS $21,600/2 = $10,800 + addn'l income + taxable interest/dividends = over $25k a portion of SS becomes taxable - when income exceeds $34k, 85% of SS becomes taxable. This is the small fry formula (me) - for single filers - that determines the 1040 SS taxable amount. Whereas I pay taxes - by trying to understand the system I manage to keep the bite minimal.

Sorry for being off subject but the OP sort of opened the door with the pounds sterling minus tax comment. Best regards....

[chiang mai]

Yes, but SSi is taxable at a non-recoverable rate of 24.5% at source for non-resident green card holders in receipt of SSi pension payments, I am one such person. I add this statement simply to make the point that there is no one single set of rules governing these matters that are applicable to everyone - gross and nett are therefore relative.

[ubonjoe]

It is gross income. That has been discussed on this forum many times.

If you are from a country that takes 40% of your pension income from you I feel sorry for you.

There's loads of countries around the world that have maximum income tax rates in excess of 40%, including Canada, Australia, Israel, Denmark, Belgium, France and so on. Belgium comes in at 65% so you see the problem using the gross figure presents. My personal opinion is that using gross is a scam, a loophole that will get closed down eventually, most of them do, sooner or later.

Calling it a scam is a bit over the top

Gross income is used for many things including getting loans and credit cards.

There is no rule that says you have to bring all of your income into the country.

Taxes and etc are part of your cost of living.

I have don't anything taken out of my pension income because it is below the minimum income for payment of taxes.

[ThaidDown]

If your home country is taking 40-65% off of your pension as tax then your income would be a whole lot greater than the equivalent of 65000 baht/month anyway.

[chiang mai]

Simply, the Immigration Dept. requirement to have THB 800,000 in a bank account provides some assurance that there is THB 800k available to support the visa holder, that's broadly THB 67,00 available every month, that's very clear and ambiguous.

Do you really think that Immigration Dept then turned round and said, wait, we'll give you a potential discount if you can prove monthly income that is is only 60% of that figure, I think not!

[larsjohnsson]

If you use the income route, the net figure is the one that is used, pre tax funds don't count.

,

Funds on deposit for two or three months each year are certified by the bank who will provide a letter confirming that fact.

Income for extensions is gross income not net.

If using the combination option the money just has to be in the bank on date of application.

That makes absolutely no sense to me that overseas gross income could be used, such income could be subject to irrecoverable tax with holdings of 40%, meaning the net amount received in country is only 60% of the minimum amount required by Immigration. Are you absolutely certain about what you've written?

It is gross income. That has been discussed on this forum many times.

If you are from a country that takes 40% of your pension income from you I feel sorry for you.

There's loads of countries around the world that have maximum income tax rates in excess of 40%, including Canada, Australia, Israel, Denmark, Belgium, France and so on. Belgium comes in at 65% so you see the problem using the gross figure presents. My personal opinion is that using gross is a scam, a loophole that will get closed down eventually, most of them do, sooner or later.

Yes there are. But 99,999% of the people in those countries will not reach the maximum income tax on a pension.

I'm from Sweden and we have higher income tax than most of the countries you mentioned. Even then I'm not even close to 40% tax on my pension.

Anyone paying 40%+ tax on their pension would probably be a millionere anyway

Edited May 24, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[chiang mai]

Yes indeed but that's hardly the point is it. The point is that as things stand it's discretionary as to whether gross or net is used, or so it seems. That being the case a borderline candidate may be advised to use gross figures today and next year no longer be able to live here because net figures are being used. Of course, anyone in those tax brackets doesn't have a problem, the borderline case however do and I think that's the purpose of this avenue.

[ubonjoe]

Simply, the Immigration Dept. requirement to have THB 800,000 in a bank account provides some assurance that there is THB 800k available to support the visa holder, that's broadly THB 67,00 available every month, that's very clear and ambiguous.

Do you really think that Immigration Dept then turned round and said, wait, we'll give you a potential discount if you can prove monthly income that is is only 60% of that figure, I think not!

The 800k baht in the bank is something completely different from income.

I can assure you that most people that are using the money in the bank option have far less income than the 65k baht income requirement.

I suspect when they set the 65k baht income number they might of even factored in other things besides what it truly costs to live here.

What if somebody has the equivalent of 7000 baht deducted from their income for medical insurance. Would you think that should not be counted as part of their income.

[chiang mai]

Gross income is what is owed to a person, net income is what is paid and received, how the recipient spends that money once it is received is discretionary, taxation unfortunately is not. Were the gross and net applicable solely to Thailand I could understand the argument, but since they relate to unconnected overseas countries, it's a preposterous scenario.