Thai Respect For 'farang'

[simon43]

A serious post, and a title that should not be mis-interpreted.

I think we are all aware of the class system that has been inherent in Asian culture (and Western!) for centuries. In Thailand, one of the visible aspects of this is the stooping that people who feel they are of a lower class will take as they pass another person. It's a sign of respect, if nothing else.

But do you encounter this in your everyday life? I started to think about this yesterday when I sat down to have some beers with the workmen from my hotel project. All of these guys come from my wife's village, and some have known me for a couple of years.

As I sat on the floor, every time one of the workmen passed me, they stooped out of respect. The fact that I was sitting on the floor (as were they), meant that this stoop was very exagerated, almost embarassing for me!

I encounter this stooping everyday, whether it be with family members or with complete strangers. With the exception of a few important Thais, they all stoop as they pass me.

Is this something that other Westerners encounter? Should I feel honoured that they don't consider me 'farang kee nok'? Or is this stooping an automatic reaction when Thais meet any foreigner?

Simon

[phusingpete]

I have also encountered this "stooping" on odd occasions particularly at funtions where many of the people do not know me. I asked my Thai wife what it was about and she said it was because I was older.It did seem to be the younger Thai's doing the stooping.

[Misplaced]

Its Thai Custom to be respectful to our elders and I do not believe its anything about class. Well, atleast for me, its not about classification or status. If I don't feel you deserved any respect than you shall received none.

Should you feel honoured? Ofcourse, if they didn't like you or respect you than they wouldn't have done that.

[ThaiPauly]

Yes, I too find it quite normal, its part of everyday life here, especially if you are older ...erm like ME !!!

[Kananga]

The inlaws do it to me. At first I thought it was because I would be usually watching tv, but when they started doing it on the beach and tesco lotus I began to realise there must be more to it than that.

[OneeyedJohn]

In the country north, i encounter it a lot in both formal and informal situations, it isn't 100% but it is a mix from both younger and older people, and they don't necessarily have to know me. Whether it is respect for me or for me because of my wife i'll never know. And yes it is embarrassing especially if your on the floor or a low table doing ur best to socialise, because it makes one feel as if you are different, and that is exactly what you are trying to avoid.

I sometimes feel as if I should stand up so as to prevent the upcoming 'stoop'

I do it myself and it feels quite natural.

[Thaising]

Out of courtesy and respect, Thais has been teaching their children to stooping when passing by the elders or senior person, wai and stooping is part of their culture. If you return the same, that mean you are more welcome.

[booma]

If you were a teacher you would encounter much more of this, even the students coming into your room walking on their knees. It is not only the young that do it but also the other workers ie gardeners etc. even some of the Thai teachers do it. You can be dressed in ripped up jeans and look really scruffy but as soon as your in the teaching English section of a bookshop, all the staff will keep their heads lower than yours. All that said, not all the students do it, I think it is a part of their culture that is slowly fading away.

I personally could do without this, I find it all a bit disconcerting.

B

[Neeranam]

All that said, not all the students do it, I think it is a part of their culture that is slowly fading away.

Yes, it is slowly fading away as farang teachers are so common.

When I was a teacher many years ago in a primary school(St.Josephs Convent) there was a lot of respect given and the polite 'stooping'.

Nowadays it doesn't happen so much and as I've been shopping in Bangkok I hear some real disrespectful things from kids. Kids come up and say hello with this f'king stupid smirk on their face. When I say, in Thai, something like "it's terrible these days, all the schoolkids on E" it very funny to see their reactions. It's embarrassing to see other farang feed their pisstake.

When I worked in a university, there was even more respect. A huge difference between a 'khroo" and an "ajarn". Strangely though I know a couple of Thai ajarn(Khon Kaen Uni.) now and they tell their students to call them "kroo". This word gives a sense of really looking after and taking care of their students in moral issues too.

Many Thai are just unsure what to do when a farang is around so stoop.

[Stephen Cleary]

I guess it just depends on the person. A lot of Thais show respect to Farangs just like they do Thais ie. 'wai', 'stoop' etc.....

As for some others, they look dumbfounded and think it's perfectly all right to show the Farang absolutely 'no respect'. I was at that snooty St Joseph's Convent place before too like 'Neeranam'. Some of the parents would come in smile and 'wai' all the Thai teachers then on seeing a Farang teacher they'd just look away as if he didn't exist!

Go to any of the 7-11's outside the tourist areas and the staff give you a nice 'wai', go to a 7-11 near Khao San or Silom and the staff look right through you as if you were a shadow. Same goes for fast food joints. Seems like a lot of Thais feel that it would be odd to show Thai-style respect to a Farang.

[naka]

Simon.

I assume you are "Vertically Challenged" if Thai's "stoop for you".

Naka.

Edited June 17, 2006 by naka

[penzman]

My in-laws, friends and our employees also do it all the time. I feel very honoured about this and do the same in return when it applies. Manners were very important to my parents and I still carry that along.

It is very nice to see and return politeness without a single word said.

[Backpack_thailand]

I do get it a lot now but it started after quite a few years of living here. I also return the compliment to my mother/father in law and elders whose house I visit. I would be very embarrassed if my in-laws did it to me though.

It's not a class thing, just a sign of respect for one's elders and I have no problem with either giving or receiving.

I still rarely get called "Pii" though by Thais younger than me. Sometimes get it but not often. Go figure!

[Boo]

errm, my husband doesn't view it to do with class or respect for elders.

He explained it to me that it is considered rude to walk in front of someone’s vision, esp. if they are sitting down, so you stoop out of courtesy to show them that you want to pass & they are in the way so you are not doing it to be rude. Doesn't matter who they are or how old.

To think that they do it because you’re a farang is funny. My husband & his friends all practice these manners to each other as do his family including his mum & elderly aunts to younger people as well as each other & me. I also do it.

But then I don’t’ just walk in front of someone who is seated or will block their view of something without saying excuse me in the UK either. Does that mean I am showing I am lower class to those farangs in farangland

I view it as the equivalent of walking in front of the screen when at the cinema; you keep low to be polite.

[gisele]

errm, my husband doesn't view it to do with class or respect for elders.

He explained it to me that it is considered rude to walk in front of someone’s vision, esp. if they are sitting down, so you stoop out of courtesy to show them that you want to pass & they are in the way so you are not doing it to be rude. Doesn't matter who they are or how old.

To think that they do it because you’re a farang is funny. My husband & his friends all practice these manners to each other as do his family including his mum & elderly aunts to younger people as well as each other & me. I also do it.

But then I don’t’ just walk in front of someone who is seated or will block their view of something without saying excuse me in the UK either. Does that mean I am showing I am lower class to those farangs in farangland

I view it as the equivalent of walking in front of the screen when at the cinema; you keep low to be polite.

I agree, it's the same idea as at the cinema.

I experience this everyday from my students, not just to me, to any teacher or someone of authority at the university. Though I don't stoop, I would excuse myself if I have to pass between people or try to go around them.

[Kananga]

I view it as the equivalent of walking in front of the screen when at the cinema; you keep low to be polite.

I thought that was just so your head doesnt block the screen. Would you still stoop if not stooping didnt block the view?

[Boo]

I thought that was just so your head doesnt block the screen. Would you still stoop if not stooping didnt block the view?

I think you missed the analogy.

[OneeyedJohn]

I think you missed the analogy.

Wots new

[Donz]

miss what??

[Stephen Cleary]

According to Thai/Asian custom it is all to do with the head and respect for elders.

If I am at the cinema and go out half way to buy some popcorn, there is no reason for me to stoop when i pass some school kids.

Keeping your head at the same height or lower is a sign of respect. Positioning your head intentionally higher than an elder on meeting is a lack of respect. If an elder is sat down it is rude to stand in front of him/her and have a discussion. Just as Neeranam mentioned earlier, you can see this custom quite clearly at schools. Since half the teacher population of Thailand are darned lazy and prefer to sit down for most of the day instead of getting off their backsides, the students on approaching the teacher are supposed to get on their knees and crawl.

As written earlier, a lot of Thais fail to follow this custom when the elder is a Farang. A sign of Thai people's lack of respect for Farangs? I don't think so. Some local folks just feel they don't need to show Thai-style respect to Farangs. Nothing too negative, in fact a lot of Thais like the easy-going attitude of Farangs in this regard.

Edited June 17, 2006 by stevesuphan

[Sheryl]

As I understand it, it's a general courtesy when walking in front of or between people to lower your head so as not to be "over" them which would both be inconvenient (if it blocked their view or disturbed their discussion) and would imply a display of superiority which is in bad taste even from one who is of superior status (polite folks don't flaunt it).

BUT it is influenced by status in that a simple token lowering of the head is fine for equals/inferiors, but much more lowering is indicated for persons of high status. I think many Thais do this unconsciously without even being aware of it, but f you observe, you'll see that it is so. The same Thai will stoop diefferently with different people.

In addition, the degree of lowering is affected by how polite the individual is. Some people almost never do it, some do it for anyone (other than children), some do it only in formal settings and with superiors.

Among Thais, the relative status of the people invovled is usually clear making it easy for people to know what is expected in terms of "stooping" and also easy to interpret the meaning of a stoop -- i.e., normal courtesy, extra-polite person, or extra deference being shown because of who the other person is.

As with a lot of social graces and customs, the correct role of a farang is often confusing to Thais and there seems to be a lack of consensus on it. Some Thais feel the whole issue just doesn't apply to farang as they are outsiders. Others decide that being farang carries an automatic ranking of some sort (and this can be high or low depending on how the Thai views foreigners). Still others will try to solve the problem by ignoring the farang-ness and assigning a status based on some other characteristic like age or occupation.

And then there is that very frustrating response we've all encountered at some time or other, of refusing to interact with or acknowledge a farang altogether.

Anyhow -- it is always a politeness when done to you and should be treated as such. You will win points and endear yourself to Thais if you return the courtesy. At a minimum should not fail to do it with obvious superiors (elders, bosses) and with peers who do so to one another (meaning that theirs is a social circle that values and practices courtesy). And of course, always with monks.

Of course, farangs are often taller than Thais and it is not necessary to lower get your head below theirs if it would require a ridiculous amount of stoop; it's the gesture that counts.

[simon43]

Soooo . . . the general concensus is that it is a sign of respect for one's elders.

. . . Which is another way of telling me that I look old :(

Simon

[britmaveric]

Blocking view most definitely - Boo is spot on!!!!

[Neeranam]

I think the anology of the stooping the head at the cinema is wrong.

People lower their heads even if they are walking behind others.

Stevs pretty spot on - it's a sign of respect or fear of being rude.

[Misplaced]

Used to get cracked on the head from Granny when not stooping for elderly person with the following sentence "Malayard mai mee ler wah ngai", simple translation: where's your manners?

Stevesuphan is exactly correct. Though the new generation may be taught differently than I

Simon - You are probably well mannered thats why they respect you so. I doubt if it has anything to do with you looking realllyyy Old (trying to make simon feel better about his oldself j/k)

[qualtrough]

Agree with those who say that the stooping is called for when blocking someone's vision, or when passing someone sitting on the floor, etc. I find myself doing it automatically in those situations, especially when passing people watching something.

[Noel]

As I sat on the floor, every time one of the workmen passed me, they stooped out of respect. The fact that I was sitting on the floor (as were they), meant that this stoop was very exagerated, almost embarassing for me!

I encounter this stooping everyday, whether it be with family members or with complete strangers. With the exception of a few important Thais, they all stoop as they pass me.

Is this something that other Westerners encounter? Should I feel honoured that they don't consider me 'farang kee nok'? Or is this stooping an automatic reaction when Thais meet any foreigner?

Simon

Stooping as a sign of respect to you?

You are kidding yourself, all they were probably doing was 'airing' their opinion of you by farting to best effect...

[Jai Yen Yen]

As I sat on the floor, every time one of the workmen passed me, they stooped out of respect. The fact that I was sitting on the floor (as were they), meant that this stoop was very exagerated, almost embarassing for me!

I encounter this stooping everyday, whether it be with family members or with complete strangers. With the exception of a few important Thais, they all stoop as they pass me.

Is this something that other Westerners encounter? Should I feel honoured that they don't consider me 'farang kee nok'? Or is this stooping an automatic reaction when Thais meet any foreigner?

Simon

Stooping as a sign of respect to you?

You are kidding yourself, all they were probably doing was 'airing' their opinion of you by farting to best effect...

//flame removed//

Did anyone see the 60 year celebrations? There were Thais on their knees walking backwards and touching their heads heads to the floor showing total respect and deference to their elders and betters. Very touching.

[Kananga]

I think you missed the analogy.

It's a valid question. Would you stoop in a cinema if your head didnt block the screen and you were walking infront of a load of kids? Because if you would then that's really funny (and slightly odd) behaviour and if you wouldn't you have umm, well admitted that you missed your own analagy.

oneeyedjohn, try to resist silly replies like that. It really doesnt earn you any respect as an adult.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Kananga

[jdinasia]

I am not too sure if "respect" or just good manners is being discussed here ....

I used to have this pet peeve about people stopped and talking on sidewalks ... I was raised not to walk between 2 people talking so I would always try and inch around behind them....

I finally started watching what Thai people do in that situation ... they just walk through with a slight bob of the head to show they knew they were doing it ...

Now that really doesn't work so well for a 6'2" (188cm) farang guy ... but that is what I do now ... with no more thought at all ... aint adaptation to your surroundings just GRAND