Suspected illegal logging leads to timber confiscation from the home of a Thaksin sister

[TerrylSky]

Does this surprise any of us? Now let's see what the fine and penalty is, not that they care - not that they care about their own ecology and environment either.

[gigman]

hahahahaha, the shins are really copping it now, everything they have done will come back and bite them all on the ar*e, this is brilliant. Cant wait to see all the other corruption they are involved in coming out.

I call it greed.

[icare999]

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No red supporters here to say it was a plant by Suthep

They can not respond, no freedom of speech anymore, they are living in your world now, enjoy it while it last!

that best you can do you'd deny thew holicost or what nazis did or even say pol pot was a victim of politics your pathetic

[kimamey]

This corruption argument has as much weight as vote buying!

Name one politician that isn't corrupt.

Corruption was alive and well long before Thaksin and will be around for a while more.

Why?

Cause it's accepted. It's endemic. Nearly everyone in Thailand is involved in it. Who hasn't paid an on the spot fine?!

Neither side is innocent.

But these one sided and entrenched views don't help anyone.

However, at least you had a choice at elections..... And even a voice.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I said in post 12 that We need to wait see the results of the investigation but if there is wrong doing then proper punishments are needed.

You obviously aren't all that sure of her innocence as you've decided to post a defence already and it's the old 'they did it so we can as well' ploy. We know corruption has been around a long time. So has murder, rape paedophilia, cruelty to animals, genocide burglary ect. It doesn't mean we shouldn't speak out about it. Whoever engages in corruption or other ilegal acts should receive the punishment they deserve regardless of who they are. I've always said that and always will.

Nearly everyone in Thailand is involved in it. Who hasn't paid an on the spot fine?!

I've never paid an on the spot fine or a bribe and as far as I know neither has my wife as she detests corruption as well. I have heard of 3 Thais in my area who have paid large sums because that's the only way to get work from local government. I also know of an English guy who said he paid a bribe to get a visa.

How many fines and/or bribes have you paid?

However, at least you had a choice at elections..... And even a voice.

Quite right and in 2011 the PTP won the election and formed the government. However they still have to abide by the rules and Thaksin didn't stand and didn't get any votes.

[WhizBang]

Why am I not surprised?

[Luger2]

Does this surprise any of us? Now let's see what the fine and penalty is, not that they care - not that they care about their own ecology and environment either.

Some care very much about the environment. Too bad the PM didn't impart the word to her two sisters.

mongabay.com

February 27, 2012

Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej urged the Thai government to punish officials who allowed illegal logging which he blamed for worsening floods last year that left more than 1,000 people dead.

"Hardwood forests that are destroyed are difficult to recover," he told Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and members of the Strategic Formulation Committee for Water Resource Management last Friday.

"The blame lies with some civil servants who are greedy and crave money."

The King said replanting forests with both fast-growing pioneer species and slow-growing hardwoods could help buffer against severe flooding and landslides.

Over the weekend Yingluck said she would follow the King's recommendations.

Read more at http://news.mongabay.com/2012/0227-thai_king_floods.html#ALuSG1eqGwW3e8Ob.99

[ggt]

Dang...this new military gov't is taking away all our privileges...may actually start having to obey the laws of the land...darn...

[gigman]

None of the logs in the photographs look as if taken from old teak houses as claimed. They all look freshly cut. Let's hope the dirtbags who are destroying the environment for personal gain get banged up for many years.

In fact if you read the article it confirms that all paperwork was in order and it was reclaimed wood.

I'm no Thaksin lover but this one sided approach and entrenched views is what caused all this in the first place

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The article says there was paperwork to the effect it was all reclaimed wood but it doesn't say the paperwork was in order. Since they controlled the government it was easy for the Shins to get any kind of paperwork they wanted and this would be legal paperwork produced by the correct government department with the right stamps and signatures, not forgeries. But if the information used to produce the paperwork was untrue, since officials were coerced to produce it, then the paperwork is not in order. It is fraudulent. Scientific testing of the logs should easily determine whether this was the case or not.

As far as I remember working in furniture factory in Australia 35 years ago we produced teak furniture Every log coming from overseas was properly stamped and numbered in supplying countries who logged this type of timber.I also remember we had to keep stamps or just pieces with this marks for some years as evidence for inspection from Australian authorities.....

I have no idea why ....

Another name for teak ; Tectona grandis is native to India, Indonesia, Myanmar, northern Thailand, and northwestern Laos.

It is most notably found in India and Myanmar. Some parts of Africa are also known to have these trees just little different but still family of teak.

This kind of tree is under strict control and even some country like Cambodia teak is very respected tree.

Some time ago " An outdoor cinema owner has been fined $3,000 for chopping down 20-year-old protected teak trees in Kampong Cham (Cambodia) ...........

Just for info.......

The oldest and biggest teak in the world is in Uttaradit Province, Thailand. It is more than 1,500 years old. The tree is 47 metres tall, and the circumference of the trunk is 10.23 metres

[rametindallas]

5,000,000 baht for wood .... wow must be a big renovation

No one would pay those prices for legally acquired wood. They knew that what they were buying was forbidden but they are Shins and, therefore, entitled to what others aren't. It seems this family is unfettered by 'morality'.

[EyesWideOpen]

This is great news !!! Under General Prayuth, Thailand seems to be changing from a land

run by feudal lords who do whatever they want with no fear of punishment, to a land where

wrong doers are being punished. Wow......

"Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej urged the Thai government to punish officials who allowed illegal logging which he blamed for worsening floods last year that left more than 1,000 people dead."

So based upon that statement by his Majesty, then the punishment for people who are actively involved

in the trading of the logs themselves should really be hit hard. This is not turning a blind eye, what

happened here is direct involvement....

[rametindallas]

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No red supporters here to say it was a plant by Suthep

They can not respond, no freedom of speech anymore, they are living in your world now, enjoy it while it last!

Don't fear. The pain to extract a rotten tooth is worth it, just as the pain some quite evidently feel on TVF when returning to true democracy.

See this as a baby teething. It is a painful experience, sleepless nights, worry and concern, but when you look at that million dollar smile on the babies face at the end it all it makes it all worth it.

Just wait and see….

On topic though - Seems these logs have the correct documentation according to BP.

Well done might be in order. They abuse power, corrupt the country, defile democracy……….BUT the logs are legal!!!

Hmmm... Correct Documents in Thailand. Do you mean like the correct documents for those exotic cars that burned on the transport truck (all assembled from spare parts in Thailand) or the correct documents that allowed Abhisit to avoid military service? IMO, 'correct documents' in Thailand are worth a lot less that what the person paid for them.

[surangw]

dishonesty must be in their blood.

[Now or Never]

No wonder the Shins wanted to hold power, as more things come to light they will all be moving to Dubai.And i thought politicians in Australia are bad they look like choir boys in comparison .

BETTING UPDATE RE:

Australia is "gravely concerned" about Thai coup.

Thailand has equaled Australia's impressive performance of 3 Prime Ministers in as many months established in 2013.

It's a neck and neck race for the fourth PM

After Thailand defeating Australia in the volley ball Australia is gravely concerned about Thailand appointing it's next PM before

Australia and thus taking the lead.

However PM Abbott is within a wink of the lead and maybe ousted by his party very soon after numerous corruption scandals and a

disastrous budget.

Australia has firmed in the betting after Thailand's General Prayuth arrested all

politicians and paid rice farmers overdue monies for last years rice crop.

Update:

The Miliary Coup has seen General Prayuth's and the Miliariy's popularity soar to 75% among the Thai people.

Recent Australian polling indicates Australia's PM is one of the most unpopular PMs in the world. Consequently bookies are now

considering opening a betting market on whether or not Australia can reach it's fifth PM before Thailand reaches it's fourth.

Betting details will be provided in future updates.

[rametindallas]

All of that aside, Suthep will go down in history as the man who saved Thailand.. Personally , I hope he gets a medal..

Illegal logging is part and parcel of the palm oil business from which Suthep made his fortune. I'm sure there will be no raids on his family though and there are plenty more ''medals'' in store for him.

amazing .....the tenuous non logical link you tried to use to turn that round was true Shinawatra class!! Well done a true red shirt ~Thai Visa poster

You mean you don't actually have an argument against what I posted so you're going to engage in childish name-calling instead.

How about you do a bit of research into the link between illegal logging and the palm oil business and come back with a more adult response.

How about you do a bit of research into the link between illegal logging and the palm oil business and come back with a more adult response.

You're the one who made the unsupported claim of an ingrained connection between illegal logging and the palm oil business. Then you threw in Suthep's name as if he was a proven illegal logger because of his ties to palm oil interests. Your innuendo is overwhelming evidence of the Shins' innocence because Suthep has a monopoly on illegal logging.

It is your responsibility, not love1012, to back up your own claims. Do you think your credibility is so great that we just take your word for it? 55555555

[rametindallas]

Bit suspicious that the forest department is now helping with the investigation.

Without the Army, they had never find anything, same like the police

Ahh... But now their jobs are on the line.

[ableguy]

Corruption, abuse of power, negligence, murder, illegal logging, lying, well a beautiful family

How about the sister fined ten million by the Thai stock exchange last week for insider trading , peanuts for these bandits.

[Chris Lawrence]

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They can not respond, no freedom of speech anymore, they are living in your world now, enjoy it while it last!

We have lived in your world filled with lies in the media from the PTP for a long time. Now its your turn, funny though that not many Democrats were caught of corruption during the PTP time. Maybe they are cleaner (probably) but I doubt they are corrupt free too. I really don't care about the side of a corrupt official as long as they get caught.

Now that the PTP protection is gone its open season on them and I think most people will agree its not a bad thing when corrupt officials are punished and caught even if they are on their side. I know I would not shed a tear for any corrupt official on my side.

My turn I have never been a supporter of either side, you must live by the moto your either with us or against us eh! But since you do bring up the subject I do find it curious that only one side seems to be subject to scrutiny.

It seems to be the same the current government is always going after their enemies. Before no PTP was caught because they were protected. The protection is gone and now they are caught.

Reason that democrats are not caught is not that they are so clean (i do believe in general they are cleaner but certainly there are some crooks there too), but because they have not been in a position to abuse power for a long time.

But to be honest its great to see the PTP corruption being tackled because under the previous government it did not happen. They even gave the convicted criminal a passport and tried to whitewash 25.000 corruption cases with the amnesty.

It does show that they are quite a bit more corrupt as the democrats who are by no means squeaky clean.

"There's the smaller but more powerful faction, which experts often call "the establishment" or "the elite," and it tends to be based in Thailand's urban south and include a lot of wealthy and middle-class Thai. These are the people who ran the country before it was democratic. (Oh yeah, that's the other issue: the old political establishment from before democracy is still pretty entrenched.) Their preferred political party at the moment is the Democrat Party, which is ironic since they often find themselves opposing majority rule.

Because the fight in Thailand is over whether the rural majority can be allowed to dominate the government, as majorities tend to do in democracies, the fight often appears to be over democracy itself. The mostly-rural, pro-Thaksin majority obviously wants as much as democracy as possible because that helps them. And the establishment minority wants less democracy because that makes it easier for them to hold on to power.

This is why, for example, the late-2013 anti-government protests that played such a big role in sparking the recent coup were calling for a "People's Council" to replace the democratically elected government. You also saw this happen in 2007, when the parliament passed a constitutional amendment to finally make the Thai Senate fully democratic (currently, about half of the senators are elected and the other half are appointed by a committee of mostly judges; the amendment would have made all senators elected). The political establishment pushed for the constitutional court to reject the amendment, which they got, thus keeping the senate half-appointed and half-elected." Max Fisher 22.05.14, Vox

'But because they (Democrats) have not been in a position to abuse power for a long time' is incorrect; they have been there for many years occupying positions of power.

'The upper house of the legislative branch (the Senate) was first established in 1946. However for most of its history the Senate has been the stronghold of the military and the elite. The current Senate has 150 members. 76 members are elected, one per province from the 75 provinces of Thailand (Bueng Kan does not have an elected senator yet) and 1 from the Bangkok Metropolitan Area. The other 74 are selected by the Senate Selection Commission, made up of both elected and appointed officials.

The chamber is strictly a non-partisan chamber, and members may not be a member of a partisan organization, House of Representatives, judiciary and the Cabinet for five years. The Senate has little power legislative -wise, but retain considerable powers of scrutiny and appointment. As the Senate is vested with the power to ‘advise’ on the appointment of several members of the Judiciary and independent government agencies.' Wikipedia

As blind Freddy said: The Senate is stacked. If you can vote your side into the Judiciary and Government Agencies you have considerable power. 'The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess"' also quoted in Wikipedia. So who is tackling the PTP corruption cases, the Democrat's legally appointed Judges?

Fisher also goes on to say; "At its most basic level, this is about an unwinnable fight between Thailand's two main political factions that's been going on for years. Think about how bad the political divide is in the United States. Now imagine that there were way more Republicans than Democrats, such that Republicans almost always won elections, but that the Democrats represented almost everyone with real political power, from judges to generals to business leaders. Now imagine that the military and supreme court openly prefer Democrats, and isn't afraid to use its power to kick out Republicans. Throw in a few more problems and you've got the basics of Thailand."

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but in relation to the court system, Sis Shin. will have to face this process.

[Dr Bruce]

First they come for the Shin Family and we all cheered because they told us about the corruption and we will not hear about any corruption by others under the new rules.

Next they will come for the Red Shirts and tell us that they have proof of sedition.

Then they will come for us and Jamie will still be cheering.

[Bluespunk]

First they come for the Shin Family and we all cheered because they told us about the corruption and we will not hear about any corruption by others under the new rules.

Next they will come for the Red Shirts and tell us that they have proof of sedition.

Then they will come for us and Jamie will still be cheering.

Paraphrasing I see.

No one told us about the shins corruption, we already knew.

As for altering a poem about nazi Germany, what the military has been compelled to do at present is a consequence of the political chaos caused by the actions of PT and suthep's mob. Your comparison is way off the mark and one I find reprehensible.

[pitchag]

They have got to root out all this corruption in all branches of the family and don't leaf any stone unturned

Edited May 31, 2014 by pitchag

[robblok]

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We have lived in your world filled with lies in the media from the PTP for a long time. Now its your turn, funny though that not many Democrats were caught of corruption during the PTP time. Maybe they are cleaner (probably) but I doubt they are corrupt free too. I really don't care about the side of a corrupt official as long as they get caught.

Now that the PTP protection is gone its open season on them and I think most people will agree its not a bad thing when corrupt officials are punished and caught even if they are on their side. I know I would not shed a tear for any corrupt official on my side.

My turn I have never been a supporter of either side, you must live by the moto your either with us or against us eh! But since you do bring up the subject I do find it curious that only one side seems to be subject to scrutiny.

It seems to be the same the current government is always going after their enemies. Before no PTP was caught because they were protected. The protection is gone and now they are caught.

Reason that democrats are not caught is not that they are so clean (i do believe in general they are cleaner but certainly there are some crooks there too), but because they have not been in a position to abuse power for a long time.

But to be honest its great to see the PTP corruption being tackled because under the previous government it did not happen. They even gave the convicted criminal a passport and tried to whitewash 25.000 corruption cases with the amnesty.

It does show that they are quite a bit more corrupt as the democrats who are by no means squeaky clean.

"There's the smaller but more powerful faction, which experts often call "the establishment" or "the elite," and it tends to be based in Thailand's urban south and include a lot of wealthy and middle-class Thai. These are the people who ran the country before it was democratic. (Oh yeah, that's the other issue: the old political establishment from before democracy is still pretty entrenched.) Their preferred political party at the moment is the Democrat Party, which is ironic since they often find themselves opposing majority rule.

Because the fight in Thailand is over whether the rural majority can be allowed to dominate the government, as majorities tend to do in democracies, the fight often appears to be over democracy itself. The mostly-rural, pro-Thaksin majority obviously wants as much as democracy as possible because that helps them. And the establishment minority wants less democracy because that makes it easier for them to hold on to power.

This is why, for example, the late-2013 anti-government protests that played such a big role in sparking the recent coup were calling for a "People's Council" to replace the democratically elected government. You also saw this happen in 2007, when the parliament passed a constitutional amendment to finally make the Thai Senate fully democratic (currently, about half of the senators are elected and the other half are appointed by a committee of mostly judges; the amendment would have made all senators elected). The political establishment pushed for the constitutional court to reject the amendment, which they got, thus keeping the senate half-appointed and half-elected." Max Fisher 22.05.14, Vox

'But because they (Democrats) have not been in a position to abuse power for a long time' is incorrect; they have been there for many years occupying positions of power.

'The upper house of the legislative branch (the Senate) was first established in 1946. However for most of its history the Senate has been the stronghold of the military and the elite. The current Senate has 150 members. 76 members are elected, one per province from the 75 provinces of Thailand (Bueng Kan does not have an elected senator yet) and 1 from the Bangkok Metropolitan Area. The other 74 are selected by the Senate Selection Commission, made up of both elected and appointed officials.

The chamber is strictly a non-partisan chamber, and members may not be a member of a partisan organization, House of Representatives, judiciary and the Cabinet for five years. The Senate has little power legislative -wise, but retain considerable powers of scrutiny and appointment. As the Senate is vested with the power to ‘advise’ on the appointment of several members of the Judiciary and independent government agencies.' Wikipedia

As blind Freddy said: The Senate is stacked. If you can vote your side into the Judiciary and Government Agencies you have considerable power. 'The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess"' also quoted in Wikipedia. So who is tackling the PTP corruption cases, the Democrat's legally appointed Judges?

Fisher also goes on to say; "At its most basic level, this is about an unwinnable fight between Thailand's two main political factions that's been going on for years. Think about how bad the political divide is in the United States. Now imagine that there were way more Republicans than Democrats, such that Republicans almost always won elections, but that the Democrats represented almost everyone with real political power, from judges to generals to business leaders. Now imagine that the military and supreme court openly prefer Democrats, and isn't afraid to use its power to kick out Republicans. Throw in a few more problems and you've got the basics of Thailand."

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but in relation to the court system, Sis Shin. will have to face this process.

No problem its always good to read the red propaganda, its good to see what stories go on their side.

Your part about the senate.. as I recall the PTP wanted people in who are family of PTP MP's that would go in against every democratic principle.

As for the positions of power, just look at all the Taksin friends and family placed in power that are now being removed. Funny that you did not mention how Taksin infested all the places of power with his minions and wanted to remove all the checks and balances.

Anyone for a 2 trillion loan for projects that cant be supervised by the senate

Have fun believing the propaganda and calling the PTP democratic

[rudolfvaselino]

Don't need to say Suthep planted it. Just say it is fake wood, or pretend it didn't happen. Maybe doubt the source or demand written unattainable proof in the form of police reports on TVF until they believe it. Maybe ignore this and google something Suthep or Ahbisit did to defend these actions. Maybe…….

Oh, they have a plethitude of excuses.

When people say the thaksins are criminals there is a "grain" of truth in that.

I am glad all of these Shin's crimes are coming out of the wood work though!

They should arrests Thaksins sister for Treezun.

I wonder if thaksins son, "Oak", needs to be investigated too?

I wouldn't get excited too quickly. Most of the country is running on illegal wood. Not only T's sis. Teak from Burma to Northern Thailand for furniture manufacturing. Common for decades. Illegal Rubberwood from Cambodia........furniture factories buy it greedily.

A real crackdown would be more honest then just look at this individual. Illegal foresting is an industry of its own.

When they carefulyl check the wood at Abhisit's or Suthep's houses.........100% sure illegal wood can be found too.

Other subject; illegal gems stones from Pailin (Prum border) to Chantaburi.........without those mines controlled by the last cells of the Khmer Rouge, Chantaburi would be out of gem business.

[Payboy]

How anyone managed to get wood within a miles radius of Yaowapa defies logic.

[mikemac]

First they come for the Shin Family and we all cheered because they told us about the corruption and we will not hear about any corruption by others under the new rules.

Next they will come for the Red Shirts and tell us that they have proof of sedition.

Then they will come for us and Jamie will still be cheering.

If by "us" you mean red propagandists Jamie won't be the only one cheering. One of the best things about this coup is that it has scared a lot of the riff-raff away from the forum, because they are too scared to post their usual red trash for fear of being "picked up" by the junta.

They will be doing the country a huge favor if they also get rid of the Shinawatras and their paid goons the ThaiRouge.

[JRSoul]

Just for info.......

The oldest and biggest teak in the world is in Uttaradit Province, Thailand. It is more than 1,500 years old. The tree is 47 metres tall, and the circumference of the trunk is 10.23 metres

How many board feet is that?

[sirineou]

Dang...this new military gov't is taking away all our privileges...may actually start having to obey the laws of the land...darn...

Darn..... it appears that they selectively apply the law to squelch political opposition Dang...

So so far it seems that only the reds have to obey the law.

[mikemac]

Don't need to say Suthep planted it. Just say it is fake wood, or pretend it didn't happen. Maybe doubt the source or demand written unattainable proof in the form of police reports on TVF until they believe it. Maybe ignore this and google something Suthep or Ahbisit did to defend these actions. Maybe…….

Oh, they have a plethitude of excuses.

When people say the thaksins are criminals there is a "grain" of truth in that.

I am glad all of these Shin's crimes are coming out of the wood work though!

They should arrests Thaksins sister for Treezun.

I wonder if thaksins son, "Oak", needs to be investigated too?

I wouldn't get excited too quickly. Most of the country is running on illegal wood. Not only T's sis. Teak from Burma to Northern Thailand for furniture manufacturing. Common for decades. Illegal Rubberwood from Cambodia........furniture factories buy it greedily.

A real crackdown would be more honest then just look at this individual. Illegal foresting is an industry of its own.

When they carefulyl check the wood at Abhisit's or Suthep's houses.........100% sure illegal wood can be found too.

Other subject; illegal gems stones from Pailin (Prum border) to Chantaburi.........without those mines controlled by the last cells of the Khmer Rouge, Chantaburi would be out of gem business.

They trained you well, only 11 posts racked up so far and already you can drop Suthep and Abhisits' names into a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with them. Soon you will be using - fascist, elitist, hi-so and amart as well.

You may not realize this, but two wrongs don't make a right, and the Shin regime has been taking advantage of their power and positions for years. And then the military steps in and pulls the rug out from under them.

I don't care if they lock up every criminal, crooked politician and dodgy dealer in Thailand, as long as the Shins are included in the passenger list.

[Crushdepth]

It's speaks volumes that the Shins didn't bother to move the timber after the coup. Still didn't expect to get busted? Really?

[Cuchulainn]

Corruption, abuse of power, negligence, murder, illegal logging, lying, well a beautiful family

... and just recently Insider Trading. Also the Shinawatra family.

Now now now!! Come on!! Don't forget, members of that family were democratically elected to serve the people.

Enter the usual braying red donkeys in heat...........

[Artisi]

Just for info.......

The oldest and biggest teak in the world is in Uttaradit Province, Thailand. It is more than 1,500 years old. The tree is 47 metres tall, and the circumference of the trunk is 10.23 metres

How many board feet is that?

That should read bored or boring.