Rice farmers seek 40% profit margin

[thumper101]

They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.

Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.

And as someone else pointed out, laziness is another big problem. Rice farming is all about short bursts of work, they have plenty of time to 'work' to earn more money rather than spend thier time lounging around in hammocks all day drinking Lao Khao.

Stopping these morons from pissing their money up the wall on smart phones they cannot afford is going to be harder though.

For me it is hard to have sympathy with many of these people as they bring much of their poverty on themselves. When i visit my wife's village most of the men are drunk 24-7 it seems and are always on the look out for a free drink. Having slept on the streets on a few occasions due to a lack of money I know what it is like to struggle each day to eat, buying luxury items like smart phones and ipads is just not an option, if I can't afford to eat properly then I certainly am not going to piss it up the wall on drink like far too many Thai men.

'They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.'

Thailand doesn't need to produce more per rai.... It has most of its problems from having an overstock. Once the overstock is down, then this can be implemented. But doubling their yield is just going to drive the prices lower, sustain that particular problem indefinitely and inevitably increase the overstock which will compound the problems year on year.

'Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.'

I totally agree with this and have said before on this forum....

Instead of throwing 100s of Billions at the farmers and not moving forward, use say 50 Bn in building government fertilizer production facilities and make Thailand 100% self sufficient in fertilizer manufacturing. Then it can be distributed at cost which will be like 20% the price of current fertilizers. That for a start would spite the greedy fertilizer industry who have been feeding off the backs of the farmers for years.

Also these plants will create jobs and will run at no cost if all manufacturing costs are being covered by the product sales. So its a one time expense to the country to set these plants up.

I would rather see the private fertilizer manufacturing industry go to the wall rather than the rice industry.

In return, all the rice from the scheme MUST have its husk collected and delivered to a bio-diesel plant for conversion to fuel which can also be distributed to farmers at cost.

Once the stockpiles are gone and the price increases once again, then amalgamate the two.... set up training camps for farmers to be able to cost effectively increase their yields and rice quality while at the same time, their production costs have significantly reduced, a double winner.

It's a no-brainer really.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.

Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.

And as someone else pointed out, laziness is another big problem. Rice farming is all about short bursts of work, they have plenty of time to 'work' to earn more money rather than spend thier time lounging around in hammocks all day drinking Lao Khao.

Stopping these morons from pissing their money up the wall on smart phones they cannot afford is going to be harder though.

For me it is hard to have sympathy with many of these people as they bring much of their poverty on themselves. When i visit my wife's village most of the men are drunk 24-7 it seems and are always on the look out for a free drink. Having slept on the streets on a few occasions due to a lack of money I know what it is like to struggle each day to eat, buying luxury items like smart phones and ipads is just not an option, if I can't afford to eat properly then I certainly am not going to piss it up the wall on drink like far too many Thai men.

Even when I pay 500 bt a day, hard to find some brains. Lazy and ignorant

[BillyBobThai]

Sitting here reading all of these comments, most, with the best of intentions, but none of us are able to implement any of them. It is so easy for us on the outside looking in, to come up with solutions, but, until the Thai's themselves see it, and the chances of that are very slim, then nothing is going to change.

I kind of think that what the king has proposed, for each family to grow rice, veggies and fish, for personal consumption, might be the best idea. This will never happen because everybody wants a new phone, car and whatever is popular at the time. I see a lot of suffering for this lot in the future.

[GentlemanJim]

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Well now. That is a ridiculous margin. The days of 40% profit margin are 40 years old. (then again, where are we here?)

Any major corp is doing well to make anywhere close to 20% nowadays, and major corps control their suppliers to a 15% margin max.

Not asking for a lot, are they? alt=blink.png>

There is a major difference between what you are saying and what the farmers are saying. The farmers are not talking about 'profit' as you are, what they really mean is we need 40% left over for ourselves after we have paid for all the rice production costs (rent, fertilizer, etc etc). The 40% is for the farmer then to live on ie his wage/salary. What you are talking about with companies is completely different. Companies aim for say 20% profit sure, meaning 20% AFTER all salaries, tax, costs etc etc. That 20% profit can sit in the bank doing nothing, be reinvested or go to the shareholders. It is not for the company employees to survive on. In truth the farmers 'profit' is zero the 40% is 'salary' for him and his family, all of which is understandable, but the model is unsustainable.

If the situation regarding prices is as severe as it seems then a true business model would dictate that the farmers just stop growing rice completely and turn to a different crop altogether.

[paulmw]

Welcome to the real world Thailand.

[lomatopo]

Here where I live in the Isaan, most families grow rice for their own cosumption. As rice became more pricey to buy on the local markets, and given the current inflation, it has actually become REALLY worth while to grow your own staple food !

Two points re: that loud sound rushing over your head:

1.) Well if the production cost exceeds the sales price – which is pretty much what this topics is about - then it may be cheaper to buy your rice in the market.

From the OP: Currently, the rice price is only between Bt4,000 and Bt6,000 per tonne, meaning farmers sold rice at a loss given the average production cost was between Bt7,000 and Bt7,700 per tonne.

2.) And the Military Junta’s economic whizz kids (OK, Herr General), have frozen the price of pretty much everything, except puppies, rainbows and snow, including rice for six months.

Thailand's Commerce Ministry said today that prices of many consumer goods would be frozen for six months to November to hold down living costs and boost the economy and confidence. "Producers of 205 categories of necessary consumer goods are happy to freeze prices for six months," the ministry's permanent secretary, Srirat Rastapana, who is acting minister under a military government that seized power on May 22, said in a statement after meeting with companies and trade associations. Those consumer goods include beverages, rice, palm oil, instant foods, dairy products, household products, animal feed and fertiliser.

Regarding increasing tax revenue: How about a Luxury Tax, of an additional 3% (so a total of 10%) on specialty luxury items to be levied on high-ticket material goods such as watches, expensive clothing, boats, yachts, private jet planes, jewelry and expensive cars.

[DK2223]

IMO the rice farmer or any farmer need to start survive themself and used their brain without any help from the government or any agencies.. They are getting more and more lazy day by day..the government need to teach them how to fish rather then giving them the fish everytime they need it..is not a long term solution..

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 5.3 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[northernjohn]

" However, Vichian said rice growers still need the rice-pledging scheme as farmers throughout the Kingdom would benefit from it."

Oh well, if the farmers want more pledging, sure why not? give them few hundreds of billions more

just for the rice to rote at the silos or be sold at the loss, where else in the world

a farmer grows something knowing full well that he doesn't have to worry how to sell it?

only hear they are able to buy crops from another country and sell it as their own..

self reliance is virtue you have to earn, but by the look of it Thai farmers are still like to suckle

on the government's tits for ever.....

What really gets me is the increased cost of supplies and rent just because the previous government had promised them big money that could absorb those costs.

Also would like to know how many small farmers were forced to sell their property to the big corporations and then lease it back.

Did the small farmers really gain any thing or was it all the affiliated business and the big rice farmers who could afford a loss if indeed they did and buy the land from the small farmer who could not afford the loss.

Not sure would be interesting to see how many of the big rice growers were paid before the PTP shut the door on payments.

[Thai at Heart]

They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.

Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.

And as someone else pointed out, laziness is another big problem. Rice farming is all about short bursts of work, they have plenty of time to 'work' to earn more money rather than spend thier time lounging around in hammocks all day drinking Lao Khao.

Stopping these morons from pissing their money up the wall on smart phones they cannot afford is going to be harder though.

For me it is hard to have sympathy with many of these people as they bring much of their poverty on themselves. When i visit my wife's village most of the men are drunk 24-7 it seems and are always on the look out for a free drink. Having slept on the streets on a few occasions due to a lack of money I know what it is like to struggle each day to eat, buying luxury items like smart phones and ipads is just not an option, if I can't afford to eat properly then I certainly am not going to piss it up the wall on drink like far too many Thai men.

'They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.'

Thailand doesn't need to produce more per rai.... It has most of its problems from having an overstock. Once the overstock is down, then this can be implemented. But doubling their yield is just going to drive the prices lower, sustain that particular problem indefinitely and inevitably increase the overstock which will compound the problems year on year.

'Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.'

I totally agree with this and have said before on this forum....

Instead of throwing 100s of Billions at the farmers and not moving forward, use say 50 Bn in building government fertilizer production facilities and make Thailand 100% self sufficient in fertilizer manufacturing. Then it can be distributed at cost which will be like 20% the price of current fertilizers. That for a start would spite the greedy fertilizer industry who have been feeding off the backs of the farmers for years.

Also these plants will create jobs and will run at no cost if all manufacturing costs are being covered by the product sales. So its a one time expense to the country to set these plants up.

I would rather see the private fertilizer manufacturing industry go to the wall rather than the rice industry.

In return, all the rice from the scheme MUST have its husk collected and delivered to a bio-diesel plant for conversion to fuel which can also be distributed to farmers at cost.

Once the stockpiles are gone and the price increases once again, then amalgamate the two.... set up training camps for farmers to be able to cost effectively increase their yields and rice quality while at the same time, their production costs have significantly reduced, a double winner.

It's a no-brainer really.

Hahahaha.

All good sentiments. Who owns the companies that provide the inputs currently to make fertilisers?

Go drive around Rayong and note the names. Then u might understand that irrespective of who is in political power, the first job of a Thai farmer is to provide wealth and food to Bangkok then to make a living.

[wolfmanjack]

Thais are smart enough to NOT collectively gatherstheir saving and give it to Farangs (with innocent name like John Deer, etc.). Farang want Thais money, Farangs will have to rob or colonize Thailand, which Farangs have never once succeeded, after many many tries by Portuguese, French, English, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Singaporean, and American, etc.

Many tries like when ? If they had really wanted to they would have already, its not like the Thais have ever won any conflict or even try, ask the Japanese yeesh

Thailand has managed to keep its independence by negotiation and concessions with many conflicting nations at the same time, by playing them off against each other thats all. The world has moved on since the 1800s

Paranoid much

Not to mention that much of what was thailand at the time was given over to england and the france to keep them from taking it all.

[northernjohn]

One thing i dont understand is why small farmers do not work together to buy the expensive machinery , a group can borrow the money more easily and they all can use the machines ,

They did like that in holland like 100 years ago and it worked great

Also with the high price as they propose better have 24/7 look out on the border for rice smugglers

I agree...but unfortunately, these people cannot work together like that....no-one is trustworthy ....the kids even sell off their parents farms.....I don't see how they could work with communal machinery.

Cooperatives are common in many countries.....possibly with education and efficient training programs, it could eventually be viable.

Farmers need to diversify....

Indeed they do.

I can not understand why the government would subsidize an industry that is not trying to help them selves. There are many examples in other countries of higher yield per rai and better product. Why not look into these methods of farming.

In all fairness to Thaksin he did look into different means to manage the water other than dams only to have his subsequent parties drop the plans and revert to big money dam ideas. More money in them for the politicians pocket.

[stoli]

One thing i dont understand is why small farmers do not work together to buy the expensive machinery , a group can borrow the money more easily and they all can use the machines ,

They did like that in holland like 100 years ago and it worked great

Also with the high price as they propose better have 24/7 look out on the border for rice smugglers

The farmers do not own expensive machinery to work their farms. There are people that own harvesters and are called in for the day by the farmers to have their fields harvested. A quick drive into the country reveals a lot.

[hansnl]

Thailand has managed to keep it's independence by negotiation and concessions with many conflicting nations at the same time by playing them off against each other.......

That is one way to explain things of the past.

Thereby forgetting:

- The Khmer occupation

- The Burma occupation

- The Japanese occupation

- The loss of Laos.

- The Dutch "occupation" of Ayuddya a few hundred years ago

And most important, the reluctance from Britain and France to have war over areas where, they agreed and maybe falsely, nothing much could be gained off.

I am very much a fan of Thailand, and indeed, I am absolutely amazed from time to time about the easy way history can be handled here.

But the facts are there, and boasting away those facts is very good for feelings of national pride.

The latter feelings are not politically correct and out of vogue in the western world, but it is always better not overdo things.

However, it is a fact that not have been "under western influences", with ASEAN looming, Thailand has problems with coping with western systems.

And I will not even speak about accepting foreign ways, ideas or thinking.

Most other ASEAN countries can and do, having been a colony of Britain, France or the Netherlands.,

The world in Asia is changing very fast indeed.

I wonder if Thailand will change with the world, can change or has the ability to change enough not to miss the boat.

Hope, for the sake of my children, Thailand will be able to cope and accept change.

[rickirs]

I believe that the current government has positioned itself strictly against Thaksin "populist policies" that were used in part to gain (sometimes referred to as "buying") general support of different voter groups. To continue with and/or create any kind of rice program that does not depend on competitive, direct market prices but rather on artificial pricing elements (ie., profit margin, cost of production, storage, etc.) that make up the selling price from the rice farmers would be a support for populist policies and a continuation of conflict.

Other than State-provided agricultural guidance for high yields and lower cost rice production, low-interest loans, and watershed management, the farmer's associations need to develop their own market strategies that best fit various farmer's economic needs as a "one-size" policy cannot be applied consistently with constant results.

[Thai at Heart]

I believe that the current government has positioned itself strictly against Thaksin "populist policies" that were used in part to gain (sometimes referred to as "buying") general support of different voter groups. To continue with and/or create any kind of rice program that does not depend on competitive, direct market prices but rather on artificial pricing elements (ie., profit margin, cost of production, storage, etc.) that make up the selling price from the rice farmers would be a support for populist policies and a continuation of conflict.

Other than State-provided agricultural guidance for high yields and lower cost rice production, low-interest loans, and watershed management, the farmer's associations need to develop their own market strategies that best fit various farmer's economic needs as a "one-size" policy cannot be applied consistently with constant results.

So what to do with millions of hand to mouth rice farmers?

There are price controls and subsidies on loads of things in thailand. Farmers need help more than most, so it is not some left wing conspiracy to try to solve their issues first financially and then beyond that.

Firstly, thailand has to stop worrying about being number 1 in terms of volume. Then they need to quota things and then they need to help subsidies the best quality and most in demand products and scale down production of the least value product.

It just takes time and some will power.

[digibum]

They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.

Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.

And as someone else pointed out, laziness is another big problem. Rice farming is all about short bursts of work, they have plenty of time to 'work' to earn more money rather than spend thier time lounging around in hammocks all day drinking Lao Khao.

Stopping these morons from pissing their money up the wall on smart phones they cannot afford is going to be harder though.

For me it is hard to have sympathy with many of these people as they bring much of their poverty on themselves. When i visit my wife's village most of the men are drunk 24-7 it seems and are always on the look out for a free drink. Having slept on the streets on a few occasions due to a lack of money I know what it is like to struggle each day to eat, buying luxury items like smart phones and ipads is just not an option, if I can't afford to eat properly then I certainly am not going to piss it up the wall on drink like far too many Thai men.

I agree that education is the key but not to become better at farming but to bring more high paying jobs to Thailand and move Thailand from an almost entirely export-based economy to one that is more balanced.

Everything in Thailand is based off of the premise of massive inefficiency so that everyone has a job. Every store, restaurant, farm, business, government office, etc has about 2x - 3x the number of people required working because labor is so cheap.

Longterm, this isn't sustainable. In fact, we're already seeing the cracks right now. You have a mostly uneducated populace who can't escape the vicious cycle of poverty.

Thailand needs weened off this backdoor welfare system. Bring large corporations to take over major farming and increase the yield per hectare to 6 tons. Force the farmers to find new jobs. Develop new, better paying, industries and train people for those jobs.

It's going to be painful but so is letting a wound fester and then having to have it amputated. Thailand has enjoyed a period of artificially deserved prosperity. Being the only country in the region most western countries could stomach doing business with, they enjoyed a lot more success than had Vietnam and Laos not been communist, Burma not have been ruled by a junta, and had Cambodia not have had an entire generation of educated people decimated.

Instead of investing their good fortune, educating the people, and preparing Thailand for the 21st century, a very few became massively wealthy and have come to see Thai dominance in the region as an entitlement.

Thailand's problems are not going to be solved by steering the car a little to the left or to the right. Thailand needs to make a u-turn and get off the road it's headed down because it's a dead end street.

Thailand needs to create it's own domestic consumption and quit relying on exports. That doesn't mean giving loose credit to people to buy cars. Creating domestic consumption involves raising the living standard of more of the Thai population so they have money to spend.

It means encouraging more foreign investment by ditching restrictive ownership rules. It means allowing foreigners to buy land and develop it for factories, tourism, etc. It means finding niche industries and incentivizing people to go into those fields (i.e an example would be medical tourism but this needs to expand into many, many more areas). It means having a stable political environment and companies feel that the rule of law is fair. It means having a large base of English speaking people who can easily adopt to different working cultures.

I know, it's a dream. People scoff at my suggestions. But, really, it is the only way out for Thailand. ASEAN is going to kick in soon, Vietnam is waking up, Burma is waking up, Cambodia is waking up, Malaysia and Indonesia are hungry. Thailand still has the advantage but it's slipping fast.

Also . . .

I don't blame the poor people for squandering their money on booze or iPhones. That's what poor people with no upward mobility everywhere in the world do. Having an iPhone or an iPad gives them a slight escape from the fact that they are poor, meaningless, cogs in Thai society. It lets them fantasize that they are like the rich and powerful. It allows them to look down on those below them that can't afford one.

It's also why Thais, as well as most poor people, have a lottery mindset. Nobody hopes to make 20% more in salary by getting a better job because 20% of crap wages is still crap. They want to win 100,000,000 baht and live the good life. They think luck is more important than hard work because no matter how hard they work, they're still on the bottom rung of Thai society (socially and economically).

[Robby nz]

There don't seem to be many posting on this topic who really know much about how things work in the rice farming business.

I live in the on the central plains and get around most days and see how things do work in this area.

Most of the farmers don't own machinery but contract those who do.

For instance possibly one or two people in the area will own a reasonable size tractor with a set of disks, they will contract to disk the dry paddy which will then be flooded by a pump either owned by the farmer or collectively between 2 or more farmers :

pump small.JPG

Small pump motor.

pump mid.JPG

Mid size pump motor usually floods a bigger area, possibly for more than one farmer

pump big.JPG

Community owned pump that floods several farmers paddy.

These pumps are driven by a variety of motors from small petrol motors to old tractors :

pumping.JPG

The paddy is then harrowed and leveled by other contractors using these :

IMG_4148 paddy.JPG

The paddy is then sprayed by other contractors who own the backpack sprayers :

spray.JPG

Then, depending on the method used, transplanting seedlings or broadcasting seed farm labor is used.

From there on it is a series of flooding and spraying.

Through to harvest by another contractor :

harvest.JPG

A builder employs labor to do a job same with a manufacture, same with a farmer.

Unless of course it is only on a very small scale where he and his family do the work themselves but even then they will not own a lot of machinery.

Robby,

What do they do themselves if almost everything is done by others. Do the contractors ask to much or what ? Maybe the Vietnamese do more by hand or more themselves ?

Well Rob as with any business there is much to be done behind the scenes as anyone who has been in business for themselves will tell you, rice farming is not all about plodding about in mud.

The farmer is the one with the knowledge of when and how everything has to be done.

He is the one who arranges the supply of seed, fertilizer, spray and the funds to pay for it all and do the accounting.

He has to arrange the contractors to arrive at the correct time and check they have done the job correctly.

He has to keep up the water at the correct times for it isn't just a matter of keeping water in the paddy for it is allowed to dry out, sometimes by pumping out, then flooding again at the correct times to get the optimum from the crop.

Around here the farmer and his workers will be out there most days with the narrow spades they use opening or closing channels between paddy or in some cases hand weeding.

In other words he is the manager of the rice farming business. Not the idle layabout nor uneducated peasant some would like to portray them as.

I am not a rice farmer and only know these things by observation but as I said I am out there almost every day (morning) and see and take photos of what is going on.

Another observation : Around here many farmers have fruit trees (bananas, mangos) and in some cases vegies growing on the berms between paddies, some also have fish ponds. All these bring in a little extra, and need tending.

Oh yes, and how many posting on this subject have the knowledge or ability to run their own rice farming business ? I know I don't.

[Skywalker69]

Well now. That is a ridiculous margin. The days of 40% profit margin are 40 years old. (then again, where are we here?)

Any major corp is doing well to make anywhere close to 20% nowadays, and major corps control their suppliers to a 15% margin max.

Not asking for a lot, are they?

Thanks; agree. Where is "free market" in Thailand? Some many business hide behind monopolies. Can't the ever learn to be competitive/modernize/ use their intellect/wit to figure it out. Seems like many want "a guarantee" for everything. There are no guarantees in life --- well non that I've found - yet.

Soon ASEAN will hit them on the head.

[seajae]

One thing i dont understand is why small farmers do not work together to buy the expensive machinery , a group can borrow the money more easily and they all can use the machines ,

They did like that in holland like 100 years ago and it worked great

Also with the high price as they propose better have 24/7 look out on the border for rice smugglers

I agree...but unfortunately, these people cannot work together like that....no-one is trustworthy ....the kids even sell off their parents farms.....I don't see how they could work with communal machinery.

Cooperatives are common in many countries.....possibly with education and efficient training programs, it could eventually be viable.

Farmers need to diversify....

Yes diversity is the key. But sometimes there are obstacles to be overcome. Part of the problem is ones land can be surrounded by the land of other family members who are less inclined to change. Your land could be a key part of the water distribution on the family plot and you growing a different crop may need lots of changes to water management. To me it seems simple enough but to them it isn't a good idea!

Looking at organically grown crops it seems like a good idea to reduce the amount of pesticide and herbicide being used, to only use natural fertilizer. Isn't that what farming once was? With our 21st century knowledge, why aren't more people doing it?

Diversity sounds like a good idea.

Thais are smart enough to NOT collectively gatherstheir saving and give it to Farangs (with innocent name like John Deer, etc.). Farang want Thais money, Farangs will have to rob or colonize Thailand, which Farangs have never once succeeded, after many many tries by Portuguese, French, English, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Singaporean, and American, etc.

actually thais are not smart enough to make their farms work unless they try to rip off the country with bullsh*t profit margins. If these farmers were any good they would be living ok but they are not, like most thais they want to live beyond their financial means and want everyone else to pay for it. Maybe if they got off their bums and actually worked for what they want honestly their lot would improve, they should know what their lands limitations are and grow accordingly instead of leeching all the goodness out of the soil for a quicjk profit. Less chemicals, a crop rotation that allows the land to recover, sensible work practices etc, the only thing holding thais back is themselves and their thinking/attitude, if they had half the brains of western farmers they would be doing much better. When you still think like they did last century how do youi expect them to improve themselves, they need educating in proper sustainable farming practices, you would have them continue to use totally useless home made crap that doesnt do the job efficiently, just goes to show how little you actually know about it, try reading up on what is needed instead of just sprooking garbage..

[robblok]

There don't seem to be many posting on this topic who really know much about how things work in the rice farming business.

I live in the on the central plains and get around most days and see how things do work in this area.

Most of the farmers don't own machinery but contract those who do.

For instance possibly one or two people in the area will own a reasonable size tractor with a set of disks, they will contract to disk the dry paddy which will then be flooded by a pump either owned by the farmer or collectively between 2 or more farmers :

pump small.JPG

Small pump motor.

pump mid.JPG

Mid size pump motor usually floods a bigger area, possibly for more than one farmer

pump big.JPG

Community owned pump that floods several farmers paddy.

These pumps are driven by a variety of motors from small petrol motors to old tractors :

pumping.JPG

The paddy is then harrowed and leveled by other contractors using these :

IMG_4148 paddy.JPG

The paddy is then sprayed by other contractors who own the backpack sprayers :

spray.JPG

Then, depending on the method used, transplanting seedlings or broadcasting seed farm labor is used.

From there on it is a series of flooding and spraying.

Through to harvest by another contractor :

harvest.JPG

A builder employs labor to do a job same with a manufacture, same with a farmer.

Unless of course it is only on a very small scale where he and his family do the work themselves but even then they will not own a lot of machinery.

Robby,

What do they do themselves if almost everything is done by others. Do the contractors ask to much or what ? Maybe the Vietnamese do more by hand or more themselves ?

Well Rob as with any business there is much to be done behind the scenes as anyone who has been in business for themselves will tell you, rice farming is not all about plodding about in mud.

The farmer is the one with the knowledge of when and how everything has to be done.

He is the one who arranges the supply of seed, fertilizer, spray and the funds to pay for it all and do the accounting.

He has to arrange the contractors to arrive at the correct time and check they have done the job correctly.

He has to keep up the water at the correct times for it isn't just a matter of keeping water in the paddy for it is allowed to dry out, sometimes by pumping out, then flooding again at the correct times to get the optimum from the crop.

Around here the farmer and his workers will be out there most days with the narrow spades they use opening or closing channels between paddy or in some cases hand weeding.

In other words he is the manager of the rice farming business. Not the idle layabout nor uneducated peasant some would like to portray them as.

I am not a rice farmer and only know these things by observation but as I said I am out there almost every day (morning) and see and take photos of what is going on.

Another observation : Around here many farmers have fruit trees (bananas, mangos) and in some cases vegies growing on the berms between paddies, some also have fish ponds. All these bring in a little extra, and need tending.

Oh yes, and how many posting on this subject have the knowledge or ability to run their own rice farming business ? I know I don't.

Thanks for the explanation, I have my own business before I worked for a boss. I know the difference. However I was mistaken about rice farming. As you summed it up it looked as if little was done by the farmer himself.

I will stick with my opinion to help the farmer improve his yield and other stuff but not for a constant financial aid. I am against farming aid and all other long term aid. I am for market competition and if an other can do it better and cheaper then your out of business.

That is the way of the world I don't see why farmers are special, again I am also against families that are always on welfare and such. I am not against short term 5 years or so to help them change things. But a permanent subsidy paid for by the middle class is not the way to go.

I am also against the idiotic Euro farming subsidies that cost normal taxpayers loads of money so farmers can keep their farms and wealth.

[Globeman]

One thing i dont understand is why small farmers do not work together to buy the expensive machinery , a group can borrow the money more easily and they all can use the machines ,

They did like that in holland like 100 years ago and it worked great

Also with the high price as they propose better have 24/7 look out on the border for rice smugglers

This has occurred to them before, and been tried. In some cases it has succeeded, but many times over the years, whoever was leading the co-op to buy the machinery and cut out the rich and greedy middleman was found floating face down in a canal.

[Robby nz]

There don't seem to be many posting on this topic who really know much about how things work in the rice farming business.

I live in the on the central plains and get around most days and see how things do work in this area.

Most of the farmers don't own machinery but contract those who do.

For instance possibly one or two people in the area will own a reasonable size tractor with a set of disks, they will contract to disk the dry paddy which will then be flooded by a pump either owned by the farmer or collectively between 2 or more farmers :

pump small.JPG

Small pump motor.

pump mid.JPG

Mid size pump motor usually floods a bigger area, possibly for more than one farmer

pump big.JPG

Community owned pump that floods several farmers paddy.

These pumps are driven by a variety of motors from small petrol motors to old tractors :

pumping.JPG

The paddy is then harrowed and leveled by other contractors using these :

IMG_4148 paddy.JPG

The paddy is then sprayed by other contractors who own the backpack sprayers :

spray.JPG

Then, depending on the method used, transplanting seedlings or broadcasting seed farm labor is used.

From there on it is a series of flooding and spraying.

Through to harvest by another contractor :

harvest.JPG

A builder employs labor to do a job same with a manufacture, same with a farmer.

Unless of course it is only on a very small scale where he and his family do the work themselves but even then they will not own a lot of machinery.

Robby,

What do they do themselves if almost everything is done by others. Do the contractors ask to much or what ? Maybe the Vietnamese do more by hand or more themselves ?

Well Rob as with any business there is much to be done behind the scenes as anyone who has been in business for themselves will tell you, rice farming is not all about plodding about in mud.

The farmer is the one with the knowledge of when and how everything has to be done.

He is the one who arranges the supply of seed, fertilizer, spray and the funds to pay for it all and do the accounting.

He has to arrange the contractors to arrive at the correct time and check they have done the job correctly.

He has to keep up the water at the correct times for it isn't just a matter of keeping water in the paddy for it is allowed to dry out, sometimes by pumping out, then flooding again at the correct times to get the optimum from the crop.

Around here the farmer and his workers will be out there most days with the narrow spades they use opening or closing channels between paddy or in some cases hand weeding.

In other words he is the manager of the rice farming business. Not the idle layabout nor uneducated peasant some would like to portray them as.

I am not a rice farmer and only know these things by observation but as I said I am out there almost every day (morning) and see and take photos of what is going on.

Another observation : Around here many farmers have fruit trees (bananas, mangos) and in some cases vegies growing on the berms between paddies, some also have fish ponds. All these bring in a little extra, and need tending.

Oh yes, and how many posting on this subject have the knowledge or ability to run their own rice farming business ? I know I don't.

Thanks for the explanation, I have my own business before I worked for a boss. I know the difference. However I was mistaken about rice farming. As you summed it up it looked as if little was done by the farmer himself.

I will stick with my opinion to help the farmer improve his yield and other stuff but not for a constant financial aid. I am against farming aid and all other long term aid. I am for market competition and if an other can do it better and cheaper then your out of business.

That is the way of the world I don't see why farmers are special, again I am also against families that are always on welfare and such. I am not against short term 5 years or so to help them change things. But a permanent subsidy paid for by the middle class is not the way to go.

I am also against the idiotic Euro farming subsidies that cost normal taxpayers loads of money so farmers can keep their farms and wealth.

Agree with you on that one, there must be many ways to help rice farmers without paying direct subsidies, R&D appears to have been all but forgotten and getting costs down and yields up through better types of rice must be possible.

There are things that the farmers could also do to help themselves, for instance : around here the transplanting of seedlings has been all but given up for broadcasting seed which I am told (on the farming forum) gives lower yields but has lower cost.

I see when I go farther to the East to around Lopburi that they are still mainly using the transplanting method which is more labor intensive and with higher yields.

I see in the OP this has been addressed :

Chookiat Ophaswongse, honorary president to the Thai Rice Exporters Association, agreed measures had to be introduced to reduce production costs.

He said costs here were high compared to some rival markets because of the high cost of agricultural equipment. The government needed to find sustainable measures to ensure low production costs and increased value to help farmers in the long run.

I don't know the answers, I leave it up to the experts, the real experts that is.

[bangon04]

Sitting here reading all of these comments, most, with the best of intentions, but none of us are able to implement any of them. It is so easy for us on the outside looking in, to come up with solutions, but, until the Thai's themselves see it, and the chances of that are very slim, then nothing is going to change.

I kind of think that what the king has proposed, for each family to grow rice, veggies and fish, for personal consumption, might be the best idea. This will never happen because everybody wants a new phone, car and whatever is popular at the time. I see a lot of suffering for this lot in the future.

Yes the comments demonstrate that foreigners simply do not understand that the Thais know best.

Subsistence farming Sufficiency farming economy is the essence of Thainess, having been a mainstay of Thailand as long as the farmers can remember, and reinforced by the (mainly Chinese) rice merchants, loan sharks, land owners who cannot possibly see the benefit of any agricultural revolution. Long live the strip farm system!

[Strangebrew]

Let's take a reality check here hell every business would love a 40% profit margin. But in reality it won't happen in this life time. How about plants crops that will sell better and not over flood the market and give fair returns? Rice here is labor draining in California a farm produces enough rice of good quality with less field workers. Maybe plant corn a plant that can be used to make food and additive for fuel. Hemp another product can be used in fuel, food, clothing rope and other products.

[Strangebrew]

Let's take a reality check here hell every business would love a 40% profit margin. But in reality it won't happen in this life time. How about plants crops that will sell better and not over flood the market and give fair returns? Rice here is labor draining in California a farm produces enough rice of good quality with less field workers. Maybe plant corn a plant that can be used to make food and additive for fuel. Hemp another product can be used in fuel, food, clothing rope and other products.

[Strangebrew]

Let's take a reality check here hell every business would love a 40% profit margin. But in reality it won't happen in this life time. How about plants crops that will sell better and not over flood the market and give fair returns? Rice here is labor draining in California a farm produces enough rice of good quality with less field workers. Maybe plant corn a plant that can be used to make food and additive for fuel. Hemp another product can be used in fuel, food, clothing rope and other products. Or better yet that super rice less water higher yield per rai of land.

[wabothai]

Education!!!!!! Buy a tractor and no new pick-up truck.

[timewilltell]

They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.

Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.

And as someone else pointed out, laziness is another big problem. Rice farming is all about short bursts of work, they have plenty of time to 'work' to earn more money rather than spend thier time lounging around in hammocks all day drinking Lao Khao.

Stopping these morons from pissing their money up the wall on smart phones they cannot afford is going to be harder though.

For me it is hard to have sympathy with many of these people as they bring much of their poverty on themselves. When i visit my wife's village most of the men are drunk 24-7 it seems and are always on the look out for a free drink. Having slept on the streets on a few occasions due to a lack of money I know what it is like to struggle each day to eat, buying luxury items like smart phones and ipads is just not an option, if I can't afford to eat properly then I certainly am not going to piss it up the wall on drink like far too many Thai men.

'They need education to improve yield so they are competitive with the rest of the rice growing countries. Thailand's yield is around 2.6tons per hectare compared to over 6 in Vietnam. Even Cambodia, still recovering from 4 decades of war produces 2.8tons.'

Thailand doesn't need to produce more per rai.... It has most of its problems from having an overstock. Once the overstock is down, then this can be implemented. But doubling their yield is just going to drive the prices lower, sustain that particular problem indefinitely and inevitably increase the overstock which will compound the problems year on year.

'Also the vultures who upped the prices for land rental and chemicals could do with some reeducation from the Junta along with loan sharks.'

I totally agree with this and have said before on this forum....

Instead of throwing 100s of Billions at the farmers and not moving forward, use say 50 Bn in building government fertilizer production facilities and make Thailand 100% self sufficient in fertilizer manufacturing. Then it can be distributed at cost which will be like 20% the price of current fertilizers. That for a start would spite the greedy fertilizer industry who have been feeding off the backs of the farmers for years.

Also these plants will create jobs and will run at no cost if all manufacturing costs are being covered by the product sales. So its a one time expense to the country to set these plants up.

I would rather see the private fertilizer manufacturing industry go to the wall rather than the rice industry.

In return, all the rice from the scheme MUST have its husk collected and delivered to a bio-diesel plant for conversion to fuel which can also be distributed to farmers at cost.

Once the stockpiles are gone and the price increases once again, then amalgamate the two.... set up training camps for farmers to be able to cost effectively increase their yields and rice quality while at the same time, their production costs have significantly reduced, a double winner.

It's a no-brainer really.

Yes well that assumes there is a brain in the first place, which if there is (a brain I mean), it is using all its processing power on how to further corruption and not on moving the country forward - well at least until the last few months. Maybe the brain is waking up - but given the proposals being put forward that is possibly just a dream.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[marcusd]

They have little education and even less will to learn new ways. Their system is doomed. All they will be doing in years from now is less and less

[billsmart]

If the farmers want a 40% profit margin, then the onus is on them to produce a product that yields that. The onus is not on the tax payer to make up the short fall

I'm sure all businesses from the local somtam stall, to the biggest hotel chains would like a yearly profit margin of 40%, doesn't mean they get it. Perhaps they (businesses) should all lobby government to ensure they get their 40% profit, each and every year?

I think Thailand needs to face reality - rice farming in its current form is not sustainable, its inefficient and uncompetative, This obsession with rice farming is a romantic notion used to reinforce the idea of 'being Thai'

Agriculture is not just any industry. It is the most important and only essential industry. For that reason alone agriculture should always be subsidized when it becomes unprofitable to the point that the industry is shrinking. We can do without new cars and fancy clothes and Smart phones and credit cards. We can not do without food.

Also, subsidies are not just provided for economic reasons. They are also provided for social and cultural reasons. You might think of small rice farmers as just "a romantic notion" but others, Thais in particular, might see support for them as a effort to preserve Thai traditions and culture. Western countries subsidize arts for the same reason.

There's also an economic argument that can be made for encouraging the distribution of agriculture among many small producers rather than have it become concentrated into a relatively few, large enterprises.

I do think some consideration should be given to limit the subsidies or price guarantees suggested in the subject article to small farmers. Just how and where the line between small and large enterprises should be drawn would be a challenge. But IMO it is the small farmer that needs these to survive; and it is the small farmer that Thailand needs to preserve its agricultural heritage.

Edited June 8, 2014 by billsmart