Short Term Monk for step son -party costs etc?

[robblok]

Well gentlemen ... I've been educated. I thought I had a reasonable grasp on the ins and outs of Thailand ... but you have shown me something new.

My experience was a much lower key affair ... but we aren't Isaan folk.

To be honest David, I am amazed too.

Also amazed the foreigner is paying for it. Its a Thai thing tell them you pay half or less then when they have to pay too prices stay real.

Anyway that is my view everyone is free to do what they want.. I don't care much about face especially not when its done with money I make.

In my opinion many Thai wives gf take the piss as its easy to spend an other ones money if you say they have to pay too it gets a lot less.

Just my views of course.. everyone can do what they want.

[Isaanfreak]

Thank Buddha, I didn't pay a satang.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thaddeus]

If you can afford it, why not.

I agree, there's nothing lost by being generous. The amount of face gained from such an exercise would be off the scale - 'a ticket to ride', some might say.

On a scale of one being strongly agree and five being strongly disagree.

I'll put that down as a 5.

Face is only temporary for anyone external to the family, for westerners, multiply that by any number you want.

If your only way of maintaining 'face' is through financial donations, paying for parties etc what do you think they really think about you?

If you don't know the answer to that, I really hope you never find out the hard way, I've seen it happen to others, and it isn't nice.

When the money is gone and the party is over, it is forgotten, it no longer has any value.

A willingness to join in and the spirit to at least try to be part of the community never fades.

[somchaismith]

If you can afford it, why not.

I agree, there's nothing lost by being generous. The amount of face gained from such an exercise would be off the scale - 'a ticket to ride', some might say.

On a scale of one being strongly agree and five being strongly disagree.

I'll put that down as a 5.

Face is only temporary for anyone external to the family, for westerners, multiply that by any number you want.

If your only way of maintaining 'face' is through financial donations, paying for parties etc what do you think they really think about you?

If you don't know the answer to that, I really hope you never find out the hard way, I've seen it happen to others, and it isn't nice.

When the money is gone and the party is over, it is forgotten, it no longer has any value.

A willingness to join in and the spirit to at least try to be part of the community never fades.

....and then I realized where I was...

[AlphMichaels]

You can do it well and right..., to the pleasure of both family and the village...., for 30-40K and make it memorable for family as well as young monk.

If I'm ever forced to pay for one, my first requirement will be the AM music cannot start until 7AM! That 5AM thing is insanity, particularly after staying up too late with the men and drinking until....,

[ericthai]

Do yourself a favour and tell the wife you are not paying a penny towards the party. On so many levels its wrong. This is straight out of the "How To Take The P*ss Out of a Farang" handbook.

100,000 baht for a party for an eleven day monk? Seriously - have a good talk to your wife about that. Not a coin.

She's taking the p*ss out of you. Big time.

Yup, and this shows you know nothing about Thailand. My wife's cousin did the Monk thing when he turned 21 4 or 5 years ago. They live next door to us. Big party, food, band, dancing girls etc, everyone in the village was there plus others. I don't know the exact cost but I'm guessing somewhere around 80K or so. No ex-pat was involved. The aunt and uncle paid for the complete thing. So this is a normal Thai thing has nothing to do with an ex-pat being taken advantage of. When I saw all that was involved and then a month later saw him back at home I was surprised I thought he was going to be a monk for a year or something like that for such a big party. A few months ago one of our neighbors did the same thing. Big party, band, show girls, food etc I heard they spent almost 100K, so again has nothing to do with taking an advantage of an ex-pat!

[glegolo]

In brief discussions with family I was told that the following happens:

1. day 1 prepare for party etc, buy monk robe etc.
2. day 2 go to wat and do the monk thing, i.e. shave head etc
3. night 2 party with food, drinks, dancing girls and band.
4. day 11 last day when step son is released, we provide him with new set of clothes

Party - food etc is only first 2 days to my knowledge?

Event still evolving.

Thanks

-P

Yes you got it right!!! I actually LIVE up in isaan.. and can first hand tell you that 11 days celebration is not more than just trashtalk... Do not be involved in that type of scam.....

A NORMAL party regarding monkhood-celebration is often 2 days at most..... I have been on a LOT of monkparties here that is just ONE day.... It starts early in the morning and all the people BOTH invited and uninvited (parasites) comes like 07.00 and starts to eat like there is no tomorrow and drinking as much as they can without making a fool of themselfs...They all have envelopes with money that are being given to the partyholder..

After a bit, the little boy who now have everybodys admiration together with the most important thing of course THE PARENTS... This is for them,..... They start to prepare fo the trip in the pick up, on a throne trying to picturing Buddah in his strength days on a throne in India.....Going though the village with bad high music... of course...

They are reaching the WAT (temple) and they will than carry the boy on that throne just like they did with buddah in the old days,,, buddah did throw out coins to the "mob" and the little boy is doing the very same, but it is just satang/1 baht coins wrapped in silvery or gold paper, or even candy in silver or goldpaper.....The "mob" is all around the ground picking this up, thinking that it is good luck in it....

The little boy is carried inside the temple, and surrounded by 10-12 monks... the little boy have to listen to a lot of hail mary´s and amen until he almost falls a sleep. I am sitting in the outer part of that, and get so tired so I step back and goe home....

All is done, everybody´s gone home... Party ended.

if not of course mama papa have paid and invested in a party that continues in the evening with even lauder music with dance girls or a band...

You can do this if you like easily for 30-40.000 baht. and on top comes refund with these envelopes...

Glegolo

[BrooklynNY]

This type of showing off party is "Wasteful" unless your wife has her own money.

My parents are well to do so it is not a problem to spend their own money to throw a block party for any ceremony but in your wife's case, she seems to financially depend on you (every thing?), it will be your money to throw the party for your step son. Your wife wants to show off that she marries to a rich white man husband. (That is how Thais call farang). You should be proud that she is showing you off !??!.

[recycler]

Same as the "Sold our daughter"/ wedding parties and other family celebrations these monk ordination parties are pissing contests just to show off to the village how much you can afford and how many people come to your party.

Had one for my brother in law last month, I don't think we spent more than 10K Baht, the family also contributed and some money came back from the guests.

What struck me most is the excessive amount of booze that was consumed mainly lao khao...

In the end the amount you contribute depends on how far you want to go in this pissing contest. We don't need to participate in that and prefer to support the family in a more structural and regular way.

[Pattszero]

Do yourself a favour and tell the wife you are not paying a penny towards the party. On so many levels its wrong. This is straight out of the "How To Take The P*ss Out of a Farang" handbook.

100,000 baht for a party for an eleven day monk? Seriously - have a good talk to your wife about that. Not a coin.

She's taking the p*ss out of you. Big time.

Yup, and this shows you know nothing about Thailand. My wife's cousin did the Monk thing when he turned 21 4 or 5 years ago. They live next door to us. Big party, food, band, dancing girls etc, everyone in the village was there plus others. I don't know the exact cost but I'm guessing somewhere around 80K or so. No ex-pat was involved. The aunt and uncle paid for the complete thing. So this is a normal Thai thing has nothing to do with an ex-pat being taken advantage of. When I saw all that was involved and then a month later saw him back at home I was surprised I thought he was going to be a monk for a year or something like that for such a big party. A few months ago one of our neighbors did the same thing. Big party, band, show girls, food etc I heard they spent almost 100K, so again has nothing to do with taking an advantage of an ex-pat!

I see you have given two examples of where the Thai families paid for the event. That's because its a Thai family obligation. Ask any Thai and they will tell you that if the parents cannot afford the celebration the wider family pays as a meritorious act.

The farang has no place in it. To turn to the farang and ask him to pay for it is a disgrace, a disgrace to the family. You didn't know that.

[glegolo]

Same as the "Sold our daughter"/ wedding parties and other family celebrations these monk ordination parties are pissing contests just to show off to the village how much you can afford and how many people come to your party.

Had one for my brother in law last month, I don't think we spent more than 10K Baht, the family also contributed and some money came back from the guests.

What struck me most is the excessive amount of booze that was consumed mainly lao khao...

In the end the amount you contribute depends on how far you want to go in this pissing contest. We don't need to participate in that and prefer to support the family in a more structural and regular way.

Yes and some people would also say to you that you more seems to be wanting to sit on the sideline and judge people

and their culture.. OR is it just that siomple that you are as many foreigners just plain cheap charlies....

This is thai culture like it or not.... I find it a bit hard to wanting to be part of it when it suits you and your

ego (you are married to a thai), and than just step out of it as soon as you starts to cry.....

So why not step out all together, or at least have respect for other peoples cultures,,, remember your own is not thatmuch old, and it is just a copy of other peoples culture, not much is your own....

Glegolo

[VINCENT2012]

Do yourself a favour and tell the wife you are not paying a penny towards the party. On so many levels its wrong. This is straight out of the "How To Take The P*ss Out of a Farang" handbook.

100,000 baht for a party for an eleven day monk? Seriously - have a good talk to your wife about that. Not a coin.

She's taking the p*ss out of you. Big time.

i agree with that opinion, but for not creating a divorce being drastic .....10 to 20 000 is already a very generous good sum to see all neighbors drunk in a few hours.

[Pattszero]

Same as the "Sold our daughter"/ wedding parties and other family celebrations these monk ordination parties are pissing contests just to show off to the village how much you can afford and how many people come to your party.

Had one for my brother in law last month, I don't think we spent more than 10K Baht, the family also contributed and some money came back from the guests.

What struck me most is the excessive amount of booze that was consumed mainly lao khao...

In the end the amount you contribute depends on how far you want to go in this pissing contest. We don't need to participate in that and prefer to support the family in a more structural and regular way.

Yes and some people would also say to you that you more seems to be wanting to sit on the sideline and judge people

and their culture.. OR is it just that siomple that you are as many foreigners just plain cheap charlies....

This is thai culture like it or not.... I find it a bit hard to wanting to be part of it when it suits you and your

ego (you are married to a thai), and than just step out of it as soon as you starts to cry.....

So why not step out all together, or at least have respect for other peoples cultures,,, remember your own is not thatmuch old, and it is just a copy of other peoples culture, not much is your own....

Glegolo

Another guy that doesn't understand that it's got nothing to do with the farang.

I bet you he doesn't even know that the drunken party is nothing to do with Thai culture.

[makkam]

Question to ask the mother is how much would she have been able to shell out had you not been around?

Or if the lad's father was about what would he deem as reasonable ( if he is alive why isn't he paying? )

He's not even your son <deleted>.

Lets be fair under normal circumstances a 'monk to be party' in some godforsaken shanty town is hardly some excuse for something resembling 'keeping up with the Kardsahians'!

The more you spend the less your wife (and those pigging out during the festivities ) will respect you.

Farangs are regarded as clueless and having more money than sense and deserve to be separated from their 'ill gotten gains'.

Put 10000thb in a savings account for the lad and tell him its waiting for him when he escapes his imminent purgatory, Far better than watching a group of sodden, toothless, gormless morons who don't know you from adam get 'sh!t faced' on your dollar

[bankei]

I've ordained as a monk before. Mine cost about 60,000B

This is what you will need:

While clothes initially

monk robes, bowl, other accessories - pillow, blanket, spitoon, candles, incense etc = all this is really unnessary as the Wat probably has heaps of old things lying around.

Food etc for the day of the ordination

Dancinng band

Big umbrella which will be held over the applicant as he circles the Bot 3 times

There will be about 10 monks present. The preceptor will expect a hefty donation, generally 3000B upwards. the other major monk, Kammavacaya - forget english, he may expect a biggish donation of around 2000B too. then the other monks that make up the quorum - 10 monks in total needed (actually only 4 needed outside of Magadha India, but Thais have 10 just in case). Each of these will get about 500B each. There will also be drinks for the monks too - ceremony takes a while.

When the applicant goes into the Bot he throws away money - generally a fist full of coins.

Once the ceremony is complete you then give the monks food for lunch. Since it starts early you may probably cover breakfast and lunch. Many of the people will hang around and eat as well.

You might even want to hire a photographer and a video taker too.

Note that monks are generally forbidden to handle money, but the general practice is for thai monks to accept and expect money from a ceremony like this. Failure to give enough to the precepter, Upachat, could be an insult. However some monks who think they are strict won't accept money - such as the Acharn Chah sect monks.

Also often a donation is made to the temple to cover use of the room and electricity etc.

Bankei

[iancnx]

It depends on the families wealth and social standing. Your situation seems similar to mine. So if they are village folk, it then depends on tradition in your particular part of Thailand. Here in the North and very rural 200 family community..... Party held the night before at the family house. Monk designate will sit alone in the house, in white robe, guests will Wai and make merit and then get pissed. Village catering cooperative will prep food tables of 8. One bottle of whiskey and mixers and ice for each table. A few bottles in reserve. Food cost 50 baht per head. Tables and chairs and cooking kit and tent age from the temple. Band with singer 10,000 baht. Monks if you are generous 500 each. Could be 100 each. Could be up to 9 monks. Plus MC to pay. 30,000 baht + beer for me sounds a reasonable amount to me. Any more and you are being ripped off me old China.

[1FinickyOne]

The reason you get varied information is that people spend varying amounts on this celebration. I am in a small village too and most of these parties go on for 3-4 days, near non-stop w/a constant flow of food, booze in the evening and music. At one local one here not long ago, the Sat. evening music was 60,000 baht… and these were not particularly rich people.

It very often can be more expensive than a wedding and always seems to go on longer. I would say that the average price here in a small village would be abt 100,000 baht and not easily done for much cheaper.

[recycler]

Same as the "Sold our daughter"/ wedding parties and other family celebrations these monk ordination parties are pissing contests just to show off to the village how much you can afford and how many people come to your party.

Had one for my brother in law last month, I don't think we spent more than 10K Baht, the family also contributed and some money came back from the guests.

What struck me most is the excessive amount of booze that was consumed mainly lao khao...

In the end the amount you contribute depends on how far you want to go in this pissing contest. We don't need to participate in that and prefer to support the family in a more structural and regular way.

Yes and some people would also say to you that you more seems to be wanting to sit on the sideline and judge people

and their culture.. OR is it just that siomple that you are as many foreigners just plain cheap charlies....

This is thai culture like it or not.... I find it a bit hard to wanting to be part of it when it suits you and your

ego (you are married to a thai), and than just step out of it as soon as you starts to cry.....

So why not step out all together, or at least have respect for other peoples cultures,,, remember your own is not thatmuch old, and it is just a copy of other peoples culture, not much is your own....

Glegolo

Calling it culture or religion doesn't automatically justify everything, nor does it strip me off my right to be critical about things that I see happening around me.

Some people claim religious rights to beat the crap out of their wifes does that make it right?

Neither is it justifiable to sell your daughters and call it culture.

Wake up, look around you, see what's really happening and don't eat all the crap that people are feeding you!

I'm not referring to Thai food by the way.

[simon43]

Ex #2 recently staged this event for her 'husband' and his younger brother who were becoming monks for 3 weeks.

Total cost was about 150,000 baht, of which about 80,000 baht was returned via financial gifts from the party-goers.

No, I did not contribute.......

This was not a major event by any standards - back of beyond in Langsuan.....

[Handmade]

Each and individuals. For me i don't like noisy and "Trouble" people .

Buy all the things needed with the monk before hand .

Day before I went to the temple had my hair and eyebrows shaved .

Next morning reported to the temple .got transferred to a big temple with 9 monks waiting .whetinto the hall for celemorny .

And I gave each monk 500 bhat in envelopes.

Each and individuals only. I feel peaceful this way .

[Handmade]

Each and individuals. For me i don't like noisy and "Trouble" people .

Buy all the things needed with the monk before hand .

Day before I went to the temple had my hair and eyebrows shaved .

Next morning reported to the temple .got transferred to a big temple with 9 monks waiting .whetinto the hall for celemorny .

And I gave each monk 500 bhat in envelopes.

Each and individuals only. I feel peaceful this way .

[sandyf]

I have been to several of these and they tend to vary in format, none had any farang involvement. The most basic was just done at the temple. We all turned up in the morning and in due course queued up with the gifts, danced around the Wat and then waited for the rituals to take place. There was obviously a great deal of private preparation beforehand.

After the monk induction had finished we all sat down to a meal at the temple. The number of people was about the same as my homewarming and for that the food came to about 25K. There is not normally any alcohol when the food is in the morning. After the meal everyone went home.

At the other end of the scale I went to one that started from the home. There was food laid on before going to the temple, there was a large band and dancing girls. They paraded through the village before going to the temple. The temple ritual is fairly standard and after the temple we all returned to the home for the meal. The menu in this case was a bit more extensive and there was also beer available, although no whisky.

There was also an evening party with a stage and live entertainment. The meal was even better than the lunch with whisky on every table and beer available.

This was probably the most attended that I have been to and I should imagine the overall cost was several hundred thousand baht.

[choochoo]

Dancing girls? you mean strippers?

[glcdc]

The dancing girls alone will cost you 10,000 i had a few last night thats how i know..anyway i think to be a monknyou have to shave your head and wear an ornge robe as far as donations; you're farang so probably not going to be enough. 100 people will turn into 500 so feeding 500.country folks 20,000 ..then you'll havento pay off police i'm sure somewhere along the lines and maybe have a little money on side incase neighbor accuses you of wrong doing...i'd say can't be more than 100,000 if plan for that i'm sure you can get by...good luck. Yours truely Davie Jones

[bobo42]

Bunch of people responding here with the proverbial "Thai wife taking the piss with falang husband" line of thought. I'd say the wife is probably not trying to cheat you out of money, she just wants a big party with big face to show. Consider the following:

Do Thai people spend this much if their kids are going to be monks for a short time?

If they are wealthy, yes they do. I'm sure there are plenty of well-to-do Thai families that spend far more. I've seen people spend more for less reason.

Is it typical to do that much, especially for a short-term?

I don't think so. Where I'm from "typical" is a pickup-truck ride through town blasting music along the way, and some drinking and partying, but its not usually extravagant. All the ones I've been to seemed "simple", but I don't usually run with a rich crowd. I've seen some people spend big cash on this.

Should you do it?

Your choice. I don't think you're a sucker if you do it, it really depends on your income level - and how much you care about letting your wife have face (or depriving her of such). Personally I wouldn't do it, but 100k is a non-trivial amount for me, so its not something I can throw away for "village prestige". However, if the cost is relatively trivial to you, then hey, let your wife have her party - have a good time, it'll probably be fun.

[Krataiboy]

I am an atheist and I don't "do" religion. So when my wife asked me to cough up for one of my three stepsons to spend 15 days in the temple, I politely declined and suggested she use her own resources (a monthly allowance from me plus additional regular income from looking after absent neighbours' houses). After all, it wasn't as if she hadn't been aware for years that her son would be inducted at 20.

I realised my refusal to fund the event would put me in the doghouse for a while - as I always am when I refuse to cough up money for anything, no matter how unreasonable the request - but I pride myself on being a man of principle and I stuck to my guns (Well, I do have two other stepsons who have yet to have their heads shaved!).

I was sent to Coventry for several days as my wife and helpers filled the house with yellow buckets full of toothpaste, tissues, soap powder and (what no self respecting monk can possibly manage without) bags of crisps and cans of Coke. One of our patloms was requisitioned as, apparently, the ceiling fans in the monks' quarters were inadequate.

Later, I was shown photos of the ceremony, with my stepson and other family members dressed up in gear purchased and/or hired specially for the event. When I asked the actial purpose of my stepson's brief incarceration at levels of discomfort to which he was unaccustomed I was told it would give him a greater understanding of Buddhism and bring good luck to the family.

A few days after my stepson entered the local wat, a walk-in thief made off with my wife's purse containing 15,000 baht. On the day the lad was released, a burglar tried to break in via the front door while we were asleep upstairs. Mercifully, the bolts held, but I had to lash out for additional security at considerable cost. Oh, and of course I reimbursed my lovely wife for the 15,000 baht she had left lying around and had stolen. The odd thing is, the thief either did not notice the brown envelopes on the same table containing baht for the monks - or thought better of taking them!

I keep telling myself there is absolutely no connection between my refusal to fund the temple merrymaking and the events which subsequently denuded my wallet. But who knows? Maybe I should make some merit. . .

[bander]

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OP, depends of the "Face" your wife and MIL want to show to the other people.

This ceremony can cost from 4 thousand Baht to a 100 thousand Baht.

Depends how lavish you want it.

Don't forget that your family will be getting money back from the guests.

Better leave it with wife and MIL and you.......just pay.

It's right that all the guests that come to the party in the evening have an envelope to give contribution that pay for food and drink ac well as the singers on the stage. I once payed 10.000 bath on top of that ( to pay other hidden costs)

[Pattszero]

Bunch of people responding here with the proverbial "Thai wife taking the piss with falang husband" line of thought. I'd say the wife is probably not trying to cheat you out of money, she just wants a big party with big face to show. Consider the following:

Do Thai people spend this much if their kids are going to be monks for a short time?

If they are wealthy, yes they do. I'm sure there are plenty of well-to-do Thai families that spend far more. I've seen people spend more for less reason.

Is it typical to do that much, especially for a short-term?

I don't think so. Where I'm from "typical" is a pickup-truck ride through town blasting music along the way, and some drinking and partying, but its not usually extravagant. All the ones I've been to seemed "simple", but I don't usually run with a rich crowd. I've seen some people spend big cash on this.

Should you do it?

Your choice. I don't think you're a sucker if you do it, it really depends on your income level - and how much you care about letting your wife have face (or depriving her of such). Personally I wouldn't do it, but 100k is a non-trivial amount for me, so its not something I can throw away for "village prestige". However, if the cost is relatively trivial to you, then hey, let your wife have her party - have a good time, it'll probably be fun.

Once again, another guy that has totally missed the point. This has got nothing to do with the farang, this is a Thai family matter.

Is there anyone here prepared to admit that they paid for this event and didn't receive the donations?

What do you think the donations are for?

Has the penny dropped now?

.................................................................................................................

To address you directly, sir. The village really loves your type - you think you are buying admiration - you are buying scorn. You are the laughing stock of the village, trying to by village prestige. Even more so when the donations are carved up under your nose.

Do you think a Thai father would allow that?

Do you think a Thai father would allow that gross insult to stand?

Do you even think that anyone would try it against a Thai father?

Never - but they'll do it to you as your a clown farang. To make it even worse, you boast about it. I'm embarrassed for you.

[bobo42]

Bunch of people responding here with the proverbial "Thai wife taking the piss with falang husband" line of thought. I'd say the wife is probably not trying to cheat you out of money, she just wants a big party with big face to show. Consider the following:

Do Thai people spend this much if their kids are going to be monks for a short time?

If they are wealthy, yes they do. I'm sure there are plenty of well-to-do Thai families that spend far more. I've seen people spend more for less reason.

Is it typical to do that much, especially for a short-term?

I don't think so. Where I'm from "typical" is a pickup-truck ride through town blasting music along the way, and some drinking and partying, but its not usually extravagant. All the ones I've been to seemed "simple", but I don't usually run with a rich crowd. I've seen some people spend big cash on this.

Should you do it?

Your choice. I don't think you're a sucker if you do it, it really depends on your income level - and how much you care about letting your wife have face (or depriving her of such). Personally I wouldn't do it, but 100k is a non-trivial amount for me, so its not something I can throw away for "village prestige". However, if the cost is relatively trivial to you, then hey, let your wife have her party - have a good time, it'll probably be fun.

Once again, another guy that has totally missed the point. This has got nothing to do with the farang, this is a Thai family matter.

Is there anyone here prepared to admit that they paid for this event and didn't receive the donations?

What do you think the donations are for?

Has the penny dropped now?

.................................................................................................................

To address you directly, sir. The village really loves your type - you think you are buying admiration - you are buying scorn. You are the laughing stock of the village, trying to by village prestige. Even more so when the donations are carved up under your nose.

Do you think a Thai father would allow that?

Do you think a Thai father would allow that gross insult to stand?

Do you even think that anyone would try it against a Thai father?

Never - but they'll do it to you as your a clown farang. To make it even worse, you boast about it. I'm embarrassed for you.

Are you illiterate? Who are you responding to?

[Neeranam]

Ex #2 recently staged this event for her 'husband' and his younger brother who were becoming monks for 3 weeks.

Total cost was about 150,000 baht, of which about 80,000 baht was returned via financial gifts from the party-goers.

No, I did not contribute.......

This was not a major event by any standards - back of beyond in Langsuan.....

If I remember correctly, your wife got a fortune from you. This is no way the normal amount of cash.