Would Thailand be better off if it was colonized by a Western power?

[jmccarty]

They would have the problems that exist now, plus a bunch of other problems created by others to deal with.

Not sure if it would be better overall...probably not!

I can't think of any place except for Singapore that is better off today because of colonization. Maybe Hong Kong. Seems to be tiny countries or areas (since Hong Kong is now China, but with a different set of governance rules), take the good and leave the bad when the West shuts off the lights. In those two cases anyway.

Can't think of any better examples in the East anyway.

[NoshowJones]

Nanapong, was that not because the British took all the riches out of them, then gave them their independence? Don't forget, the British ruled over two thirds on the world only 100 years ago.

[Swiss1960]

I find it pretty scary and disgusting that you even discuss the question of colonization....

Colonization is nothing else but the invasion and enslavement of the natives of a country by a nation that finds itself superior

Colonization leads to nothing good in the long term and is just another form of sucking out a countries wealth and assets for the superior needs of the slavers / colonialists.

most of you guys can't wait to bash the Thai system for it's failures... and you think you can solve anything by enslaving a country? Have you realized that few years ago, we entered the 21st century where Human Rights include - beside other things - the right of people to make their own decisions and mistakes?

[super22k]

After killing so many British soldier you would have thought the Indians would have worked harder to

make a success of their country. Once a colony is handed over it is the resposibility of the new

government. After 60 years of Indian mis-rule they still blame their problems on Britain.After the

masses amount of aid we have given them over the years you would think they would be grateful.

Crossy.Be proud of Britain for its spirit of adventure.Funny how all these people want to speak

our language.

[guap]

Hasn't the west colonized enough already. That's why some of us came to Thailand in the first place, unspoiled.

I would suggest Thailand should colonize the west, that might make it worthwhile once more.

[Frank James]

We, the British, 'managed' many countries before leaving them to their own devices. Leaving because they thought they were up to running the show on their own or better. Look at Kenya, Zimbabwe, India...the list goes on. When the British were in 'charge' the people had a sense of order........now look at them. Thailand would have had a far better rail service around the country that's for sure.

Hear Hear! Bravo! And now to put a proper point on this fine thread, a lovely old piece from Mister Rudyard Kipling, Winner of the Nobel Prize for "Lit-ra-tshur"

The White Man's Burden

Take up the White Man's burden--

Send forth the best ye breed--

Go bind your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need;

To wait in heavy harness,

On fluttered folk and wild--

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--

In patience to abide,

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By open speech and simple,

An hundred times made plain

To seek another's profit,

And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--

The savage wars of peace--

Fill full the mouth of Famine

And bid the sickness cease;

And when your goal is nearest

The end for others sought,

Watch sloth and heathen Folly

Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--

No tawdry rule of kings,

But toil of serf and sweeper--

The tale of common things.

The ports ye shall not enter,

The roads ye shall not tread,

Go mark them with your living,

And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--

And reap his old reward:

The blame of those ye better,

The hate of those ye guard--

The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--

"Why brought he us from bondage,

Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--

Ye dare not stoop to less--

Nor call too loud on Freedom

To cloke your weariness;

By all ye cry or whisper,

By all ye leave or do,

The silent, sullen peoples

Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--

Have done with childish days--

The lightly proferred laurel,

The easy, ungrudged praise.

Comes now, to search your manhood

Through all the thankless years

Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,

The judgment of your peers!

Up the Rifles!

[transam]

Hasn't the west colonized enough already. That's why some of us came to Thailand in the first place, unspoiled.

I would suggest Thailand should colonize the west, that might make it worthwhile once more.

You obviously haven't had to pay corruption money here yet eh..............

[Cyclist]

like laos, cambodia, burma and vietnam??

I would say Malaysia and Singapore did benefit in some way, because of the British there is a high level of English proficiency there and there is also respect for the constitution and the rule of law to some extent.

Malaysia and Singapore did not benefit from the colonization, but from the Chinese who were brought as labourers there. Thanks to the working spirit of the Chinese immigrants, these countries gained wealth. See Hong Kong as well. In most cases colonization was only to take as much benefit and profit of the colonized countries as possible. I doubt that Thailand would have been better off. It might have been worse. Look at all the colonized countries. How well are they doing? What suffering had the population of these countries to go through, to get rid of the colonialists...?

And if you think that countries like the US, Canada, and many countries in South America benefited from colonization, then you're wrong too. The local population has been murdered and decimized and now the "locals" are all descendents from Europe.

Also had SE asian countries never been colonized Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia would not doubt have avoided their civil wars.

[Paulzed]

like laos, cambodia, burma and vietnam??

Don't forget India, Pakistan, West Africa, South Africa, etc..........

[Paulzed]

We, the British, 'managed' many countries before leaving them to their own devices. Leaving because they thought they were up to running the show on their own or better. Look at Kenya, Zimbabwe, India...the list goes on. When the British were in 'charge' the people had a sense of order........now look at them. Thailand would have had a far better rail service around the country that's for sure.

Sounds like you have worked it all out.....not!

[AZBill]

Thailand needs to work out their own problems in their own way. The West has enough of it's own problems to deal with. Everyday in America I watch my own country going down the toilet because of incompetent, traitorous leaders and a bloated, corrupt and useless government. We are in no position to tell a country like Thailand what to do or how to do it. While they have no idea what a democracy is, it's up to them to figure it out and decide if that's what they want.

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[transam]

We, the British, 'managed' many countries before leaving them to their own devices. Leaving because they thought they were up to running the show on their own or better. Look at Kenya, Zimbabwe, India...the list goes on. When the British were in 'charge' the people had a sense of order........now look at them. Thailand would have had a far better rail service around the country that's for sure.

Sounds like you have worked it all out.....not!

Well yeh, me toooo. The UK had a great rail system a hundred years ago. We had 100mph trains many decades back.....

[lungbing]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

And you think it's still our fault after nearly 64 years of independence?

[thaibeachlovers]

What are the prospering countries now that were colonized before, by the West?

Singapore, Australia, the US, Canada, New Zealand just off the top of my head.

Had Thailand been colonised by Britain, they might have pavements in the small city I live in, which would be a huge plus.

[sustento]

India's social welfare budget is 70 billion. We have been giving 227 million which is 0.3% of the total spending. The combined budget for defense and space is 3 billion. Not so long ago India made a statement that the funding from the UK was so little that it was embarrassing and should stop. The UK rags have been telling us how India take our money but spend on defense and space programs, disregarding the fact that India spend 23 times more on welfare than defense.

Well great. Can build a hospital with staff in the UK with that figure saved...............

Most of the staff will probably be Indian...

[sustento]

We, the British, 'managed' many countries before leaving them to their own devices. Leaving because they thought they were up to running the show on their own or better. Look at Kenya, Zimbabwe, India...the list goes on. When the British were in 'charge' the people had a sense of order........now look at them. Thailand would have had a far better rail service around the country that's for sure.

Sounds like you have worked it all out.....not!

Well yeh, me toooo. The UK had a great rail system a hundred years ago. We had 100mph trains many decades back.....

Indeed. The Mallard still holds the world speed record for a steam train at 125mph. That was in 1938.

[CMDAWI]

It is refreshing to read some serious pros and much more cons emanating from the opinions of the observed experiences of English, French colonialism in Asia and in Africa.

I would add: When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

Desmond Tutu

Edited June 10, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[mihalis]

what a <deleted> !! We go to Thailand because its not like the joke western countries we mostly come from.....

[transam]

what a <deleted> !! We go to Thailand because its not like the joke western countries we mostly come from.....

Not me............

[wolf5370]

Look at India to see what a mess was left behind by a colonizing power (yes, I'm a Brit and not proud of what we did there), 60 years on and it's still broken in so many ways

India has had a very long time to go their OWN way , cannot blame the UK for the way they went.............

Yes, unlike France who just pulled out, Britain went through 5 years of consultation with Indian leaders (including the first Pakistani and first Indian premieres). It was the death of Ghandi that caused the split to be inevitable - it was all decided and handed over as a working system. Then just after leaving, Pakistan invaded West Pakistan for ethnic cleansing. Britain left behind a system of government, law, world's biggest army (at the time), education, etc - Indians had always been used at all; levels during the occupation so it was not a difficult transition. Religion and greed is what caused the sub-continent its woes - and still does - not being an ex-empire. I worked with Indians for years, and have many Indian friends - all educated - none blame the UK for India's woes, some even say it had been the best time for India.

Other ex-empress countries not doing so bad? Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, most of France, Eire, Jamaica, many islands. Over all a pretty good record - even Burma was via negotiations and was left with a working democratic government (and was one of the few countries that did not join the Commonwealth!) - 1948 independence, 1962 the Junta (Ne Win) get power via a coup. Burma will always have problems as it has very separate and distinct cultures and religious areas - civil wars have been abound since independence. Really it needs to be split into independent states for peace to happen.

[Bernard Flint]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

[geronimo]

Colonisation by the west is basically rape. They take what they want, install their big corporations to suck up all the resources and change their culture / beliefs. I ran away from that in Europe and no, Thailand would not be better off.

[shadmo63]

Do you think the people and the country as a whole would be better off if they had gone through 50-100 years of Western colonization?

No.

Look at Laos, Burma, Cambodia... not what i would call "post-colonial bliss".

note too that Thailand may have never been "properly" colonised by a foreign western state - however, they did have to listen/subordinate to the English (and the French) nevertheless - it has been colonised economically by the Chinese who were back then (and still are) in charge in big cities like BKK, Chiang Mai, etc.

(these people are now Sino-Thai and are genuine Thai basically).

Thai economy between 1950-80 was virtually built on drug (opium/heroin) money. Many well respected bonafide Sino-Thai businesses in BKK and Chiang Mai had non-legal activities connected with Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau and USA underworld ... Ironically many people in Thailand were better off with this illicit business since these criminal cartels invested a lot back into local communities and Thailand in general.

The country until early 1932 was an Absolute Monarchy where the King had total and absolute authority. Everyone and everything and every tical (baht) in the Kingdom lived according to the whims and belonged to the King and the powerful people around him - the Vice or Second King and the 6 Chaopraya's (Lords) and the very powerful Bunnag family (of Persian descent) etc. Siam was lucky to be a buffer between French Indochina and British Burma and Malaya, and Mongkut (Rama IV) and Chulalongkorn (Rama V) were clever enough to play the diplomatic game well. To suggest Siam was 'subordinate' to either of the Western powers or under economic control of the Chinese is not even close to the truth. Sure their have been Chinese here forever, even the Tai race of peoples is from southern China. The Bowring treaty which was forced upon the Siamese in 1855 gave the British certain rights, and land was gained and lost at certain times, but neither the British nor French were ever in positions of power within the Kingdom. The Thai/Siam Government under Phibunsongkran was subordinate to the Japanese during WWII and that's the only time in the last two centuries Thailand/Siam has been under any foreign control.

Siams problem was the Burmese who destroyed the Ayuthaya Kingdom in 1767 forcing a new Kingdom to be set up on the Bangkok site initially under King Taksin (who was half Chinese like his modern day namesake) before being replaced by Rama I. In fact the British takeover of Burma soon after was what finally ended the endless cycle of wars with Ayuthaya and Siam. You can thank Rama IV and especially Rama V for the modernizing of Siam, not any external powers. They invited in scholars and scientists and engineers from the west to help build a modern infrastructure and education system. Rama V eventually abolished slavery in 1905 but never got around to giving ordinary people surnames (1913 under King Vajiravudh - Rama VI)

@stickylies wrote "Ironically many people in Thailand were better off with this illicit business since these criminal cartels invested a lot back into local communities and Thailand in general"

- what a complete load of rubbish. In the 50s through 70s rural Thailand, especially Isaan, was still desperately poor with widespread poverty and malnutrition at rates of 25% plus. The Vietnam war and the wests fear of communism brought the influx of USA money that brought about rapid development.

I have more opinions but for reasons we all know I cannot say any more.

[wolf5370]

Colonisation by the west is basically rape. They take what they want, install their big corporations to suck up all the resources and change their culture / beliefs. I ran away from that in Europe and no, Thailand would not be better off.

All that still happens now, but not via colonisation, but by the buying power of big corporations. Look around at those 3rd world countries, and developing countries (like this one) where are most of the resources going? How many foreign owned factories here churning out high priced goods using cheap labour? Thailand has always been independent - has their culture not changed to that of the west? Look at the building styles now compared to 200 years ago - music - clothes - food even (fast food outlets everywhere and busy) - culture - its all westernised and getting more so all the time.

Globalisation of materialism economics has done - and is doing - what colonialism tried, and much more efficiently too!

[Eric Loh]

like laos, cambodia, burma and vietnam??

I would say Malaysia and Singapore did benefit in some way, because of the British there is a high level of English proficiency there and there is also respect for the constitution and the rule of law to some extent.

From my conversation with my friends in both countries, the best thing the British left behind is the Common Law and the civil service structure. I agree with them.

[thaicookingchef]

Of course, and colonization should have never stopped, China is right.

[rct99q]

you mean countries that have been colonised like Australia or India.....i think Thailand is doing just fine thank you very much.

[belg]

What are the prospering countries now that were colonized before, by the West?

brasil ?

[robertthesculptor]

NO...well maybe when all super powers adopt the Federations' Prime Directive. But not till then...

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[metisdead]

A vulgar troll post has been removed.