Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[Pattszero]

The crusaders went to Arabia - and learnt how to count.

That's because they were open to learning.

Most of the guys on this topic are open to learning nothing.

They think they are smart -

They ride on the back of truly smart men.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Pattszero

[Diddl]

I agree with you CharlesHH. I haven’t read all the messages here but here is my take.

I think the problem of foreigners is that they have been brought up in a country where they are forced to comply with whatever law a government deems necessary, and mummy and daddy have dictated what they can do or not do all their lives and they have complied. I came to Thailand to get away from law enforcement and from people dictating to me what I should do or not do. Live and let live is my motto. As long as you are not hurting anyone, what is it that people have to dictate what others do or not do? As I mentioned in another forum, it is always about control, people wanting to control others – I call this dictatorship and bullying!

If, for instance, there are 4 on a bike, or 10 people in a taxi, or someone doesn’t wear a helmet when on a motorbike, what the hell! This does not hurt me so I mind my own business and leave people the freedom to do what they want. Let people live their lives and make their own decisions and/or mistakes, that is what I say. For instance, I don’t like wearing a seat-belt when driving so why should I? Not wearing a seat-belt does not hurt anyone so why should this be a problem to anyone? If you want to wear a seat-belt then do so but why should anyone criticise me or try to force me to wear one? I am sick and tired of being dictated to and bullied. I am an adult so why should I obey anyone as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone?

If you want to dictate to people, go back to the West, that is what I say, as there is not much freedom there anymore! Thailand is still a relatively free country and it doesn’t bother me what people do or not do when it doesn’t harm me in any way. I admire the Thai people because they still have the guts to live life the way they want to rather than obeying dictatorial people or law. Thailand has already become too westernised unfortunately, so leave it alone now before it is not worth living here anymore. Let Thai people make their own decisions, it is their country after all. How can there ever be peace in the world when there are always people criticising you and bullying you into doing what THEY want?

Why should people care what others do? Controllers and dictators have a mental disorder as far as I am concerned!

[kannot]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

Well either you or the Dalai Lama has got it wrong because Buddhists don't preach. That would be interfering with someone else's kharma and their kharma will be passed on to you. That is why most Thai's don't meddle in other people's affairs or judge other people's actions.

All religions teach basically the same thing. Be good or something bad is going to happen to you and by the way Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy.

Id say "here" its more of a joke

[kannot]

I agree with you CharlesHH. I haven’t read all the messages here but here is my take.

I think the problem of foreigners is that they have been brought up in a country where they are forced to comply with whatever law a government deems necessary, and mummy and daddy have dictated what they can do or not do all their lives and they have complied. I came to Thailand to get away from law enforcement and from people dictating to me what I should do or not do. Live and let live is my motto. As long as you are not hurting anyone, what is it that people have to dictate what others do or not do? As I mentioned in another forum, it is always about control, people wanting to control others – I call this dictatorship and bullying!

If, for instance, there are 4 on a bike, or 10 people in a taxi, or someone doesn’t wear a helmet when on a motorbike, what the hell! This does not hurt me so I mind my own business and leave people the freedom to do what they want. Let people live their lives and make their own decisions and/or mistakes, that is what I say. For instance, I don’t like wearing a seat-belt when driving so why should I? Not wearing a seat-belt does not hurt anyone so why should this be a problem to anyone? If you want to wear a seat-belt then do so but why should anyone criticise me or try to force me to wear one? I am sick and tired of being dictated to and bullied. I am an adult so why should I obey anyone as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone?

If you want to dictate to people, go back to the West, that is what I say, as there is not much freedom there anymore! Thailand is still a relatively free country and it doesn’t bother me what people do or not do when it doesn’t harm me in any way. I admire the Thai people because they still have the guts to live life the way they want to rather than obeying dictatorial people or law. Thailand has already become too westernised unfortunately, so leave it alone now before it is not worth living here anymore. Let Thai people make their own decisions, it is their country after all. How can there ever be peace in the world when there are always people criticising you and bullying you into doing what THEY want?

Why should people care what others do? Controllers and dictators have a mental disorder as far as I am concerned!

and when Somchai crashes into you as he loses control because he has four on a bike and kills you or your Wife or kids??

[kannot]

the example of the helmet less motorcycle riders and an idea to set it right isn't a great example of "Cultural Imperialism" as someone mentioned, people utilizing common sense, foresight and proactivity (qualities that sadly, are often lacking in LOS) would see this situation as not safe, thus might feel the need to help people avoid it.....yes wearing helmets on the bike IS a better way to go than not

So would you go to the USA and tell the bikers in Texas to put on a helmet?

although the helmet will help, try thinking about the TEXANS driving style a s opposed to the Thais and let me know if the accident rate is the same. Does Mr texan pull out of sides roads with no thought, undertake, have the bike maintained, drive with no lights, 4 people on a bike etc etc etc

[Diddl]

and when Somchai crashes into you as he loses control because he has four on a bike and kills you or your Wife or kids??

I have never had an accident and have been driving over 40 years. I even survived driving in India for 5 years. If you are attentive and careful, you need not have an accident. I have avoided many accidents when people do stupid things, I am just more attentive and manage to avoid what you think is inevitable. I also think that when your time is up, then it is up. I also think that people should have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not harm anyone. If they want to be irresponsible, then that is their affair. I like to treat people the way I want to be treated, which means that I don’t like people poking their nose in my affairs and telling me what to do or not do.

Wanting to control others is a big problem in our world today. I hope nobody tries to do it to you – I’m sure you would retaliate if they did. Do unto others as you would want done unto you!

[kannot]

"Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation"

Yes I do believe I am better in many ways, I dont pi*s in the road, chuck my rubbish where I like, drive like a t**t putting innocent peoples lives at risk, put other people first, hold door s open for folk, actually wait, make so much noise at 3-4-5am I keep others awake, gob everywhere, actually look at and address the person Im in front of not my phone, dont park across anyones driveway, have loud conversations at 2 am in the corridor of a condo,ram my religion down someone's throat insisting its 100% fact when its baseless, look when crossing roads.

Are all Thais like this? NO but theres an awful lot who appear to be when Im out and about.

YES Im sorry I really believe Im better.

Why would you be sorry. Join the ranks of every other ****** who thought his poop didn't stink.

How could anyone disagree with your impeccable logic?

I could live in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK or Thailand. I picked Thailand because I like the Thai people better.

What do you like?

Many people here seem to think you cant live in Thailand if you dont like Thai people, Im sure i dont like as many English as Thais, but I do like the country as in landscape.

[kannot]

and when Somchai crashes into you as he loses control because he has four on a bike and kills you or your Wife or kids??

I have never had an accident and have been driving over 40 years. I even survived driving in India for 5 years. If you are attentive and careful, you need not have an accident. I have avoided many accidents when people do stupid things, I am just more attentive and manage to avoid what you think is inevitable. I also think that when your time is up, then it is up. I also think that people should have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not harm anyone. If they want to be irresponsible, then that is their affair. I like to treat people the way I want to be treated, which means that I don’t like people poking their nose in my affairs and telling me what to do or not do.

Wanting to control others is a big problem in our world today. I hope nobody tries to do it to you – I’m sure you would retaliate if they did. Do unto others as you would want done unto you!

I just cant take your answer seriously, you cannot control every event on the road especially due to stupidity of others, youve been lucky thats all.

[Diddl]

and when Somchai crashes into you as he loses control because he has four on a bike and kills you or your Wife or kids??

I have never had an accident and have been driving over 40 years. I even survived driving in India for 5 years. If you are attentive and careful, you need not have an accident. I have avoided many accidents when people do stupid things, I am just more attentive and manage to avoid what you think is inevitable. I also think that when your time is up, then it is up. I also think that people should have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not harm anyone. If they want to be irresponsible, then that is their affair. I like to treat people the way I want to be treated, which means that I don’t like people poking their nose in my affairs and telling me what to do or not do.

Wanting to control others is a big problem in our world today. I hope nobody tries to do it to you – I’m sure you would retaliate if they did. Do unto others as you would want done unto you!

I just cant take your answer seriously, you cannot control every event on the road especially due to stupidity of others, youve been lucky thats all.

Call it luck if you want, but I would disagree. I think your attitude in life is important as to the outcome. I remember sliding towards oncoming traffic on black ice in the UK when I tried to avoid a car that was backing onto the main road that I was on. Don’t ask me how I managed to avoid the oncoming car because I was looking down at the driver, I was that close, but I did avoid him and then I managed to steer the car in the opposite direction off the road. The driver backing onto the main road was totally irresponsible, but that is how a lot of people are. It is even illegal in the UK to back onto a main road. I was not angry, I was just surprised that he had not seen me because I was driving a big car, a Pajero. Nothing happened, no-one was hurt, and I put my car in 4-wheel drive and drove out of the field. I imagine that the driver learnt a lesson from the experience and will be more careful next time. I won’t even relate my experiences in India, I could write a book on the subject. When I drive, I am very attentive and often I don’t hear passengers talking to me because I am concentrating on the road.

Anyway, my time is not up yet, so nothing has happened to me, and perhaps it is because I have a different attitude towards others and realise what they are capable of doing or not doing on the road. Perhaps it is good karma!

I remember in my younger days when I was controlling and domineering, and judgmental of everyone. I saw all that in myself one day and I did not like what I saw. From then on something changed in my character and I just believe in laisser-faire now, which makes my life more pleasant and I am happier – I am sure others are happier too.

[USNret]

I'm confused. I thought promoting Cultural Imperialism is the whole point of TV.com. Am I missing the point?

[kannot]

and when Somchai crashes into you as he loses control because he has four on a bike and kills you or your Wife or kids??

I have never had an accident and have been driving over 40 years. I even survived driving in India for 5 years. If you are attentive and careful, you need not have an accident. I have avoided many accidents when people do stupid things, I am just more attentive and manage to avoid what you think is inevitable. I also think that when your time is up, then it is up. I also think that people should have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not harm anyone. If they want to be irresponsible, then that is their affair. I like to treat people the way I want to be treated, which means that I don’t like people poking their nose in my affairs and telling me what to do or not do.

Wanting to control others is a big problem in our world today. I hope nobody tries to do it to you – I’m sure you would retaliate if they did. Do unto others as you would want done unto you!

I just cant take your answer seriously, you cannot control every event on the road especially due to stupidity of others, youve been lucky thats all.

Call it luck if you want, but I would disagree. I think your attitude in life is important as to the outcome. I remember sliding towards oncoming traffic on black ice in the UK when I tried to avoid a car that was backing onto the main road that I was on. Don’t ask me how I managed to avoid the oncoming car because I was looking down at the driver, I was that close, but I did avoid him and then I managed to steer the car in the opposite direction off the road. The driver backing onto the main road was totally irresponsible, but that is how a lot of people are. It is even illegal in the UK to back onto a main road. I was not angry, I was just surprised that he had not seen me because I was driving a big car, a Pajero. Nothing happened, no-one was hurt, and I put my car in 4-wheel drive and drove out of the field. I imagine that the driver learnt a lesson from the experience and will be more careful next time. I won’t even relate my experiences in India, I could write a book on the subject. When I drive, I am very attentive and often I don’t hear passengers talking to me because I am concentrating on the road.

Anyway, my time is not up yet, so nothing has happened to me, and perhaps it is because I have a different attitude towards others and realise what they are capable of doing or not doing on the road. Perhaps it is good karma!

I remember in my younger days when I was controlling and domineering, and judgmental of everyone. I saw all that in myself one day and I did not like what I saw. From then on something changed in my character and I just believe in laisser-faire now, which makes my life more pleasant and I am happier – I am sure others are happier too.

Im still disagreeing,, as a life long motorcyclist believe me you really have to plan way way ahead and expect the unexpected, you cannot plan for an imbecile on a bike pulling straight out of anywhere here. On black ice I would be driving at walking pace only. I would treat any day where it had rained and frozen as a black ice day.

Its not illegal to reverse out of a driveway. Highway code rule 201 "When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can."

[Diddl]

Call it luck if you want, but I would disagree. I think your attitude in life is important as to the outcome. I remember sliding towards oncoming traffic on black ice in the UK when I tried to avoid a car that was backing onto the main road that I was on. Don’t ask me how I managed to avoid the oncoming car because I was looking down at the driver, I was that close, but I did avoid him and then I managed to steer the car in the opposite direction off the road. The driver backing onto the main road was totally irresponsible, but that is how a lot of people are. It is even illegal in the UK to back onto a main road. I was not angry, I was just surprised that he had not seen me because I was driving a big car, a Pajero. Nothing happened, no-one was hurt, and I put my car in 4-wheel drive and drove out of the field. I imagine that the driver learnt a lesson from the experience and will be more careful next time. I won’t even relate my experiences in India, I could write a book on the subject. When I drive, I am very attentive and often I don’t hear passengers talking to me because I am concentrating on the road.

Anyway, my time is not up yet, so nothing has happened to me, and perhaps it is because I have a different attitude towards others and realise what they are capable of doing or not doing on the road. Perhaps it is good karma!

I remember in my younger days when I was controlling and domineering, and judgmental of everyone. I saw all that in myself one day and I did not like what I saw. From then on something changed in my character and I just believe in laisser-faire now, which makes my life more pleasant and I am happier – I am sure others are happier too.

Im still disagreeing,, as a life long motorcyclist believe me you really have to plan way way ahead and expect the unexpected, you cannot plan for an imbecile on a bike pulling straight out of anywhere here. On black ice I would be driving at walking pace only. I would treat any day where it had rained and frozen as a black ice day.

Its not illegal to reverse out of a driveway. Highway code rule 201 "When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can."

You can believe whatever you want but I am only explaining my experience. As for driving at walking pace on black ice, I was only driving at about 30kph but you try stopping 2 tons on black ice. If I had driven any slower, I would have been aggressed by vehicles following as UK drivers are quite aggressive and impatient these days. At least in Thailand I don’t have this problem, people tend to be more patient and polite on the road.

You say, “Highway code rule 201 "When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can."” - exactly, reverse IN, but this guy was reversing OUT (to "back out" means to reverse out in UK English).

[simple1]

I agree with you CharlesHH. I haven’t read all the messages here but here is my take.

I think the problem of foreigners is that they have been brought up in a country where they are forced to comply with whatever law a government deems necessary, and mummy and daddy have dictated what they can do or not do all their lives and they have complied. I came to Thailand to get away from law enforcement and from people dictating to me what I should do or not do. Live and let live is my motto. As long as you are not hurting anyone, what is it that people have to dictate what others do or not do? As I mentioned in another forum, it is always about control, people wanting to control others – I call this dictatorship and bullying!

If, for instance, there are 4 on a bike, or 10 people in a taxi, or someone doesn’t wear a helmet when on a motorbike, what the hell! This does not hurt me so I mind my own business and leave people the freedom to do what they want. Let people live their lives and make their own decisions and/or mistakes, that is what I say. For instance, I don’t like wearing a seat-belt when driving so why should I? Not wearing a seat-belt does not hurt anyone so why should this be a problem to anyone? If you want to wear a seat-belt then do so but why should anyone criticise me or try to force me to wear one? I am sick and tired of being dictated to and bullied. I am an adult so why should I obey anyone as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone?

If you want to dictate to people, go back to the West, that is what I say, as there is not much freedom there anymore! Thailand is still a relatively free country and it doesn’t bother me what people do or not do when it doesn’t harm me in any way. I admire the Thai people because they still have the guts to live life the way they want to rather than obeying dictatorial people or law. Thailand has already become too westernised unfortunately, so leave it alone now before it is not worth living here anymore. Let Thai people make their own decisions, it is their country after all. How can there ever be peace in the world when there are always people criticising you and bullying you into doing what THEY want?

Why should people care what others do? Controllers and dictators have a mental disorder as far as I am concerned!

All good so long as you have insurance that covers yourself and any other victims that is required by Law, or should I say the controllers, do you comply? If you end up in a Thai government medical facility with extensive injuries due to non compliance to driving regulations, your selfish attitude reduces the resources available to Thai citizens.

From my POV those who do not enforce the law in Thailand & practice endemic corruption are traitors to their own people; are the coup leaders wrong? Are the coup leaders submitting to cultural imperalism, when paralleling Western principles,with their attempts to revitalise adherance to law.

Thai people are 'relatively free' in comparison to Western countries, you have to be joking...

Edited June 14, 2014 by simple1

[JimHuaHin]

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

My I please extend your definition of cultural imperialism ,,,

If "Culture is basically the symbolic and learned non-biological aspects of human society, eg language, customs, conventions/norms (interpersonal, institutional and organisational), values, ideologies/beliefs, etc.".

Then cultural imperialism, in the case of Thailand, includes such things as food (Starbucks, KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, etc.), entertainment (Bollywood movies, K-Pop music, American television programmes, etc), etc. Or is it?

There is a difference between cultural imperialism (and the key word here is imperialism) and the notion of multiculturalism - cultural imperialism is imposed from outside, multiculturalism is a matter of (national) choice.

Thailand is a multicultural multi-ethnic country; Thailand may choose that some cultural traits are unacceptable in this country ....

[ATF]

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

My I please extend your definition of cultural imperialism ,,,

If "Culture is basically the symbolic and learned non-biological aspects of human society, eg language, customs, conventions/norms (interpersonal, institutional and organisational), values, ideologies/beliefs, etc.".

Then cultural imperialism, in the case of Thailand, includes such things as food (Starbucks, KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, etc.), entertainment (Bollywood movies, K-Pop music, American television programmes, etc), etc. Or is it?

There is a difference between cultural imperialism (and the key word here is imperialism) and the notion of multiculturalism - cultural imperialism is imposed from outside, multiculturalism is a matter of (national) choice.

Thailand is a multicultural multi-ethnic country; Thailand may choose that some cultural traits are unacceptable in this country ....

You are correct but the OP was confusing to start with. Four people on a bike designed for two wearing no helmets is plain and simply wrong. This has nothing to do with CI. However freedom exists in Thailand for this to happen just like 15 people in the back of a pick-up. Americans have been arguing helmets are not necessary in some US states again just stupidity. The Brits had Roman, Saxon, Norse, Viking and French CI imposed on them. CI is not being imposed on Thais but through advertising they are deciding that's what they want. I really am not qualified to answer if that is right or wrong.

[Pattszero]

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

My I please extend your definition of cultural imperialism ,,,

If "Culture is basically the symbolic and learned non-biological aspects of human society, eg language, customs, conventions/norms (interpersonal, institutional and organisational), values, ideologies/beliefs, etc.".

Then cultural imperialism, in the case of Thailand, includes such things as food (Starbucks, KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, etc.), entertainment (Bollywood movies, K-Pop music, American television programmes, etc), etc. Or is it?

There is a difference between cultural imperialism (and the key word here is imperialism) and the notion of multiculturalism - cultural imperialism is imposed from outside, multiculturalism is a matter of (national) choice.

Thailand is a multicultural multi-ethnic country; Thailand may choose that some cultural traits are unacceptable in this country ....

You are correct but the OP was confusing to start with. Four people on a bike designed for two wearing no helmets is plain and simply wrong. This has nothing to do with CI. However freedom exists in Thailand for this to happen just like 15 people in the back of a pick-up. Americans have been arguing helmets are not necessary in some US states again just stupidity. The Brits had Roman, Saxon, Norse, Viking and French CI imposed on them. CI is not being imposed on Thais but through advertising they are deciding that's what they want. I really am not qualified to answer if that is right or wrong.

The OP quite obviously trolled in his OP.

In his pitiful attempt at trolling, he unwittingly brought up a point worth debating.

Which just goes to show that even a fool will get lucky sometimes.

You have brought up an even better point. Was it cultural imperialism that brought antibiotics to Thailand?

Must be, huh? The cruel Brits forced the little brown people into accepting medical advances.

It's not imperialism to show someone a better way, a safer way.

That's humanity.

I mentioned the Arabs earlier. Before the crusades there was no "zero" in the west.

While we couldn't figure out that simple concept, while we were living in shacks, the Arabs were at the forefront of scientific discovery.

The Chinese too. Including the invention of the printing press in the eleventh century. It took the west another four hundred years to "invent" the printing press.

We in the west eventually learned that we can learn from other cultures. It was that simple realization that advanced western culture and learning so rapidly.

So, a professional policeman, retired, arrives in Thailand, and is horrified to see four on a bike.

He volunteers his services, his years of training, his experience.

And that fool of an OP calls him a cultural imperialist.

I call him a man. A humanitarian.

A man that sees others at risk and wants to help.

I applaud him.

[thailiketoo]

"Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation"

Yes I do believe I am better in many ways, I dont pi*s in the road, chuck my rubbish where I like, drive like a t**t putting innocent peoples lives at risk, put other people first, hold door s open for folk, actually wait, make so much noise at 3-4-5am I keep others awake, gob everywhere, actually look at and address the person Im in front of not my phone, dont park across anyones driveway, have loud conversations at 2 am in the corridor of a condo,ram my religion down someone's throat insisting its 100% fact when its baseless, look when crossing roads.

Are all Thais like this? NO but theres an awful lot who appear to be when Im out and about.

YES Im sorry I really believe Im better.

Why would you be sorry. Join the ranks of every other ****** who thought his poop didn't stink.

How could anyone disagree with your impeccable logic?

I could live in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK or Thailand. I picked Thailand because I like the Thai people better.

What do you like?

Many people here seem to think you cant live in Thailand if you dont like Thai people, Im sure i dont like as many English as Thais, but I do like the country as in landscape.

You changed the point. You said you were better than Thai people. (You wrote, "YES Im sorry I really believe Im better.") I said, don't be sorry about that a lot of ethnocentric people think their poop don't stink.

Now you asked another question. What do you like? I like Thai people because they are cleaner and smell better than Western people.

[CharlesHH]

I used the overloaded motorbike example because it pointed out the foolishness of a newly arriving America thinking he would be able to affect Thai behavior. That is what is funny and the look on the police faces when this guy stalks in to straighten everything out. His motive may have been humanitarian, but his chance of success is zero due to a combination of common accepted practice in riding bikes and often necessity for moving around.

Lets look at why a Thai family will risk harm by overloading a bike. Westernized development put the family in this position.

Western development, seeming like a good thing, brought assemble line paying work to Thailand. With that, and an ignorant Thai government not protecting rural life and farmers, the family leaves the ease of village life, where BTW they only need to walk, not ride, because everything is close by.

Leaving the village, the family discovers that nothing is close by... the kids school is way over there needing bike transportation, his work place is far from where they can afford to live needing bike transport, and she shops in a different place needing bike transport. Now, they can barely afford one bike, so everyone gets on the one bike.... now necessary to cope with the "good life" Westernization brought to them.

Then there are the good hearted Westerners bringing inoculations and extending life for Thai. How many of these inoculations are against Western-induced diseases. Remember measles and American Indians. So, thank you for the foreign diseases and then the expensive inoculations needed.

Westerners use their knee jerk reactions to Thailand based on their Western home practices. They do not look at the deeper way other nations and cultures.... and PEOPLE... are disrupted. Many of those disruptions make lots of money for the Westerners, like McDonalds, but by the lure of "the better West," they just make lovely slim Thai children FAT. The 7-11 makes money off Thai poverty by selling, at vastly inflated prices, products in the smallest containers. Thank you West for allowing us to buy baby powder in tiny bottles for a price-per-ounce huge inflation over a big bottle cost.

Western help is often exploitation, not help.

[CharlesHH]

I am overjoyed that I hit such a sensitive nerve among thaivisa readers, even being listed as a popular topic on front page.

So many Westerners have written defending themselves from their cultural imperialist personal practices. One fellow even went so far as to declare himself superior to Thai people. What a arrogant puffed up looney! But he was just voicing what the vast number of foreigners believe and yet live in Thailand long term.

But, thank you to the writers here for standing up for my points, a slim number of stalwarts. ThaiVisa exists to extend and support cultural imperialism. I sure hope Thai do not read it because they would rightly resent foreigners more than they do. Just thank Buddha you are allowed into such a peaceful live-and-let-live culture. Now, stop trying to mess it up.

[daoyai]

Charlie, east and west are all in your mind, there is no separation, since you use 7-11 as an example, buying in bulk and selling smaller portions for profit originated in China (the "east" to you) as did foreign trade. All cultures have strong and weak points, I am a cultural critic wherever I am yet it is not possible for me to practice "imperialism" because I have little to no power to impose my will on other cultures. I do find your rants amusing so plese proceed.

Edited June 14, 2014 by daoyai

[David48]

I am overjoyed that I hit such a sensitive nerve among thaivisa readers ...

Do you also do acupuncture?

But you do make the mistake that members nerves are aligned in a similiar fashion.

[canuckamuck]

I am overjoyed that I hit such a sensitive nerve among thaivisa readers, even being listed as a popular topic on front page.

So many Westerners have written defending themselves from their cultural imperialist personal practices. One fellow even went so far as to declare himself superior to Thai people. What a arrogant puffed up looney! But he was just voicing what the vast number of foreigners believe and yet live in Thailand long term.

But, thank you to the writers here for standing up for my points, a slim number of stalwarts. ThaiVisa exists to extend and support cultural imperialism. I sure hope Thai do not read it because they would rightly resent foreigners more than they do. Just thank Buddha you are allowed into such a peaceful live-and-let-live culture. Now, stop trying to mess it up.

I dislike culture. I find it is the main ingredient against fair and equal treatment among different groups and the greatest hindrance to advancement of the human condition. It is an engine of war and intolerance, and it is the shield for selfishness and ignorance. Every people group should distance themselves from such attachments, maintaining only those which are clearly beneficial for respectful and pragmatic relationships.

That being said, where is this popular topics on the front page you speak of?

[Thai at Heart]

Well it definitely not imperialism if someone chooses to do something. No one is forcing Thais to get a nose job, or eat a McDonalds. They are doing this completely of their own volition.

So, I fail to see how this is classified as imperialism. As for the blokes, well thanks to a combination of western innovation to make the combustion engine, and Japanese ingenuity to Maas produce cheaply, Thais can choose to have a bike.

If they want to ride it without a helmet, that would be illegal under THAI law, so once again I don't see that as imperialism.

I think you are railing at the fact that for a society to function efficiently , there needs to be some rules and regs to play by. That is not a western concept, that is universal.

Nope I was responding to the post below.

rijb, on 13 Jun 2014 - 15:05, said:

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? cheesy.gif No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. cheesy.gif Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. cheesy.gif Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. cheesy.gif I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? cheesy.gif The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

PS The ability to mass produce cheaply was invented by Henry Ford not the Japanese. That was Ford's main contribution to the automobile industry; a car that his workers could buy. In other words he made his own customers. Cars were made before Ford but he invented the assembly line for autos and made the first cheap car.

Assembly lines yes, but wasn't the engine design from Honda responsible for allowing the sale of a cheaper but relatively powerful engine. Anyway we digress.

Nose jobs aren't imperialism. Glad we agree on that. How inferior must people feel if they want not just to make themselves prettier, but actually want to mimic the appearance of a different part of the race?

Bizarre world.

[Thai at Heart]

I am overjoyed that I hit such a sensitive nerve among thaivisa readers, even being listed as a popular topic on front page.

So many Westerners have written defending themselves from their cultural imperialist personal practices. One fellow even went so far as to declare himself superior to Thai people. What a arrogant puffed up looney! But he was just voicing what the vast number of foreigners believe and yet live in Thailand long term.

But, thank you to the writers here for standing up for my points, a slim number of stalwarts. ThaiVisa exists to extend and support cultural imperialism. I sure hope Thai do not read it because they would rightly resent foreigners more than they do. Just thank Buddha you are allowed into such a peaceful live-and-let-live culture. Now, stop trying to mess it up.

Depends if you think that the West has to apologise for anything. If Thais resent westerners as much as you think they do, I suggest this is not such a live and let live culture.

I suggest this resentment might be a Thai problem because I lived there perfectly happily for a long time. Why would anyone resent me. I paid tax, I lived lawfully, I raised Thai kids, I provided. What is there to resent? I wasn't hurting anyone.

That is their problem not mine.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[ATF]

OP you have made some valid points and others not so valid but as others have said this is a topic worthy of debate. Most foreigners when they first arrive in Thailand the culture shock is overwhelming and even more so for cops. I notice he didn't say he was going to join up to close down the whorehouses and bust drug and human trafficking rings. Because cops are cowards, no matter where they come from, and I've kicked enough cop ass in my time to know. They would rather bust you for a broken tail light than pulling a gun on them.

What we are really dealing with here is not CI it is Globalization. Whether right or wrong it has happened and the clock cannot be turned back and as with most things in life there are winners and losers. The US keeps wages down by allowing illegal immigrants to keep poorer people in check and so do many other countries. Fast Food and high sugar drinks should be banned everywhere not just in Thailand but that is never going to happen. Thailand is still going through a transition period and Thais are discovering that advertising isn't always truthful. You cannot ban foreign influences in Thailand because that would make the people want them even more. Thais want foreign movies, European football. What would happen if you switched off the World Cup? Should Thais not have Rolex watches or Louis Vitton handbags or International travel?

Buddhism brings it's own challenges. Thais believe in fate and re-incarnation so they believe they will only die when it's their time. Drinking a bottle of whiskey and riding a bike with their family on board has nothing to do with it which is sad. I've had the misfortune to pick up several dead teenagers off the road with their heads split open. I drive fast and appreciate the lax attitude to speed limits but I am fully aware of what I am doing and am very experienced and prepared for the consequences.

Education is the real answer but it is currently being used as a tool in most countries around the World to dumb people down and a good education is very expensive in Thailand.

In closing I would say that Thailand has been very good to me and sincerely hope the Thai Military can lead Thailand forward to a new prosperity without compromising what is Thailand and please believe me I have a hundred times more faith in them than any politician.

[thailiketoo]

Well it definitely not imperialism if someone chooses to do something. No one is forcing Thais to get a nose job, or eat a McDonalds. They are doing this completely of their own volition.

So, I fail to see how this is classified as imperialism. As for the blokes, well thanks to a combination of western innovation to make the combustion engine, and Japanese ingenuity to Maas produce cheaply, Thais can choose to have a bike.

If they want to ride it without a helmet, that would be illegal under THAI law, so once again I don't see that as imperialism.

I think you are railing at the fact that for a society to function efficiently , there needs to be some rules and regs to play by. That is not a western concept, that is universal.

Nope I was responding to the post below.

rijb, on 13 Jun 2014 - 15:05, said:

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? cheesy.gif No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. cheesy.gif Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. cheesy.gif Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. cheesy.gif I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? cheesy.gif The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

PS The ability to mass produce cheaply was invented by Henry Ford not the Japanese. That was Ford's main contribution to the automobile industry; a car that his workers could buy. In other words he made his own customers. Cars were made before Ford but he invented the assembly line for autos and made the first cheap car.

Assembly lines yes, but wasn't the engine design from Honda responsible for allowing the sale of a cheaper but relatively powerful engine. Anyway we digress.

Nose jobs aren't imperialism. Glad we agree on that. How inferior must people feel if they want not just to make themselves prettier, but actually want to mimic the appearance of a different part of the race?

Bizarre world.

Yes bizarre world,

The Ford T engine was produced continuously from September 27, 1908, through August 4, 1941, exactly 12,000 days. This makes it one of the longest engines in series production, especially considering that the specifications remained mostly unchanged for this entire duration. Its production run for the U.S. consumer market for passenger cars and pickups was shorter, being the 19 years' production run of the Model T itself for that market (1908 to 1927). But the engine continued to be produced and sold to various consumer, industrial, military, and marine markets throughout the world until 1941.

Thailand owes a lot to the Ford model T engine but I won't go into it here.

Edited June 14, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

OP you have made some valid points and others not so valid but as others have said this is a topic worthy of debate. Most foreigners when they first arrive in Thailand the culture shock is overwhelming and even more so for cops. I notice he didn't say he was going to join up to close down the whorehouses and bust drug and human trafficking rings. Because cops are cowards, no matter where they come from, and I've kicked enough cop ass in my time to know. They would rather bust you for a broken tail light than pulling a gun on them.

What we are really dealing with here is not CI it is Globalization. Whether right or wrong it has happened and the clock cannot be turned back and as with most things in life there are winners and losers. The US keeps wages down by allowing illegal immigrants to keep poorer people in check and so do many other countries. Fast Food and high sugar drinks should be banned everywhere not just in Thailand but that is never going to happen. Thailand is still going through a transition period and Thais are discovering that advertising isn't always truthful. You cannot ban foreign influences in Thailand because that would make the people want them even more. Thais want foreign movies, European football. What would happen if you switched off the World Cup? Should Thais not have Rolex watches or Louis Vitton handbags or International travel?

Buddhism brings it's own challenges. Thais believe in fate and re-incarnation so they believe they will only die when it's their time. Drinking a bottle of whiskey and riding a bike with their family on board has nothing to do with it which is sad. I've had the misfortune to pick up several dead teenagers off the road with their heads split open. I drive fast and appreciate the lax attitude to speed limits but I am fully aware of what I am doing and am very experienced and prepared for the consequences.

Education is the real answer but it is currently being used as a tool in most countries around the World to dumb people down and a good education is very expensive in Thailand.

In closing I would say that Thailand has been very good to me and sincerely hope the Thai Military can lead Thailand forward to a new prosperity without compromising what is Thailand and please believe me I have a hundred times more faith in them than any politician.

OP

Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation.

How many examples of Cultural Imperialism can we find in the above post?

Edit to count

I found 6 IMHO. How many can you find?

Edited June 14, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Diddl]

All good so long as you have insurance that covers yourself and any other victims that is required by Law, or should I say the controllers, do you comply? If you end up in a Thai government medical facility with extensive injuries due to non compliance to driving regulations, your selfish attitude reduces the resources available to Thai citizens.

From my POV those who do not enforce the law in Thailand & practice endemic corruption are traitors to their own people; are the coup leaders wrong? Are the coup leaders submitting to cultural imperalism, when paralleling Western principles,with their attempts to revitalise adherance to law.

Thai people are 'relatively free' in comparison to Western countries, you have to be joking...

Are you a policeman? Who the hell do you think you are? And for your information, yes, I do have insurance. If you bother to read my messages, you would understand what I said, that I consider others and would never do anything to harm them, that includes financially, hence I have insurance should it ever be needed.

Whatever is wrong in Thailand, it is none of your business, so let the Thai authorities deal with it. We don’t need people like you, there are enough dictators in the rest of the world, so go elsewhere.

Now I will attack you as you seem to like attacking others as well as me on TV as I have noticed – you obviously have nothing better to do it seems! Do you have a cell phone? Do you have WiFi? If you do, then you are a hypocrite and should clean out your own back yard before telling people what to do. And just in case you are totally ignorant on the subject, cordless technology is harmful to human beings, and I am affected by scoundrels who use them. I don’t have a cell phone or use WiFi because I don’t want to hurt anyone, and I don’t bully people like you as if I am another bl**dy Hitler because I try to exercise tolerance and peace! My health has been seriously impaired by EMF (electro-magnetic frequencies) and yet I don’t go around hating people or bullying them. Maybe YOU should pay for my medical bills if you have a cell phone and/or WiFi!

And no, I am not joking when I say that Thai people are relatively free when compared to other countries. Where have you been?

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it! I’ve had enough of people like you – no wonder people kill each other for the slightest excuse, all in the name of “I’m right, do what I say but not as I do!”

Don't bother replying.

[Diddl]

I used the overloaded motorbike example because it pointed out the foolishness of a newly arriving America thinking he would be able to affect Thai behavior. That is what is funny and the look on the police faces when this guy stalks in to straighten everything out. His motive may have been humanitarian, but his chance of success is zero due to a combination of common accepted practice in riding bikes and often necessity for moving around.

Lets look at why a Thai family will risk harm by overloading a bike. Westernized development put the family in this position.

Western development, seeming like a good thing, brought assemble line paying work to Thailand. With that, and an ignorant Thai government not protecting rural life and farmers, the family leaves the ease of village life, where BTW they only need to walk, not ride, because everything is close by.

Leaving the village, the family discovers that nothing is close by... the kids school is way over there needing bike transportation, his work place is far from where they can afford to live needing bike transport, and she shops in a different place needing bike transport. Now, they can barely afford one bike, so everyone gets on the one bike.... now necessary to cope with the "good life" Westernization brought to them.

Then there are the good hearted Westerners bringing inoculations and extending life for Thai. How many of these inoculations are against Western-induced diseases. Remember measles and American Indians. So, thank you for the foreign diseases and then the expensive inoculations needed.

Westerners use their knee jerk reactions to Thailand based on their Western home practices. They do not look at the deeper way other nations and cultures.... and PEOPLE... are disrupted. Many of those disruptions make lots of money for the Westerners, like McDonalds, but by the lure of "the better West," they just make lovely slim Thai children FAT. The 7-11 makes money off Thai poverty by selling, at vastly inflated prices, products in the smallest containers. Thank you West for allowing us to buy baby powder in tiny bottles for a price-per-ounce huge inflation over a big bottle cost.

Western help is often exploitation, not help.

Again I agree CharlesHH. We can thank Western civilisation for having invaded or interfered with just about every country in the world and brought on more suffering than it ever had because they are predators only interested in making money regardless of whether it damages a nation. Western civilisation has never had the intention of helping other nations, it is only interested in what it can get – just total greed! Even so-called humanitarian aid is a farce – if you look deeper and bother to research, you will find that there is an ulterior motive behind so-call help.

Oh, yes, a tractor is better than a cow they say. Really? What happens when you can’t pay for diesel anymore? The cow is still there, the tractor is redundant!

Oh, and don’t forget all that lovely food impregnated with chemicals that help the medical and pharmaceutical industry make money from the sick and dying.

Need I go on?

Progress, hahahaha! Look behind the curtain and you will see the truth of it.

[benalibina]

I used the overloaded motorbike example because it pointed out the foolishness of a newly arriving America thinking he would be able to affect Thai behavior. That is what is funny and the look on the police faces when this guy stalks in to straighten everything out. His motive may have been humanitarian, but his chance of success is zero due to a combination of common accepted practice in riding bikes and often necessity for moving around.

Lets look at why a Thai family will risk harm by overloading a bike. Westernized development put the family in this position.

Western development, seeming like a good thing, brought assemble line paying work to Thailand. With that, and an ignorant Thai government not protecting rural life and farmers, the family leaves the ease of village life, where BTW they only need to walk, not ride, because everything is close by.

Leaving the village, the family discovers that nothing is close by... the kids school is way over there needing bike transportation, his work place is far from where they can afford to live needing bike transport, and she shops in a different place needing bike transport. Now, they can barely afford one bike, so everyone gets on the one bike.... now necessary to cope with the "good life" Westernization brought to them.

Then there are the good hearted Westerners bringing inoculations and extending life for Thai. How many of these inoculations are against Western-induced diseases. Remember measles and American Indians. So, thank you for the foreign diseases and then the expensive inoculations needed.

Westerners use their knee jerk reactions to Thailand based on their Western home practices. They do not look at the deeper way other nations and cultures.... and PEOPLE... are disrupted. Many of those disruptions make lots of money for the Westerners, like McDonalds, but by the lure of "the better West," they just make lovely slim Thai children FAT. The 7-11 makes money off Thai poverty by selling, at vastly inflated prices, products in the smallest containers. Thank you West for allowing us to buy baby powder in tiny bottles for a price-per-ounce huge inflation over a big bottle cost.

Western help is often exploitation, not help.

Again I agree CharlesHH. We can thank Western civilisation for having invaded or interfered with just about every country in the world and brought on more suffering than it ever had because they are predators only interested in making money regardless of whether it damages a nation. Western civilisation has never had the intention of helping other nations, it is only interested in what it can get just total greed! Even so-called humanitarian aid is a farce if you look deeper and bother to research, you will find that there is an ulterior motive behind so-call help.

Oh, yes, a tractor is better than a cow they say. Really? What happens when you cant pay for diesel anymore? The cow is still there, the tractor is redundant!

Oh, and dont forget all that lovely food impregnated with chemicals that help the medical and pharmaceutical industry make money from the sick and dying.

Need I go on?

Progress, hahahaha! Look behind the curtain and you will see the truth of it.

The tractor and the cow.......in todays world of helping .....a cow would be given and not a tractor.......