Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[timewilltell]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

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[wilcopops]

There is a type of fallacious argument, usually connected with racism and promulgated by racists, that those who claim to be victims of racism are also capable of racism too....whether or not this is accurate, it is a fallacious argument. It in no way deters from the original premise...more of the same can't argue against. So to imply that because Thais may be guilty of cultural imperialism in no way negates the proposition that they are subject to the same themselves.

Unfortunately the OP appears not to know what cultural imperialism is so the whole premise is a moot point...as are subsequent postingsbuntil there is common agreement on what C.I. actually is.

I still fail to see what is being imposed on thailand.

You personally may not see or understand the mechanism itself, that is irrelevant.

The key point about cultural imperialism is it involves intrusion and/or domination by from an alien source.

A new road may have benefits... but it also has concomitant problems; for example, if introduced by the Chinese in an area where it's main purpose or sole purpose is to transport Chinese goods through a country to a seaport they kneed to access may smack of cultural imperialism. The locals don't necessarily benefit but do have to live with the environmental hazards etc.

Mc D's are introducing negative diet aspects coupled with business and environmental problems that do not particularly benefit Thailand but both the road and the restaurant benefit an outside country and introduce a set of values/problems that are not necessarily beneficial to Thailand. (I find the "way-ing" Ronald McDonald particularly disturbing). Although food is only a sideline at McD's you might want to check out their menus in various countries and how they try to inveigle their way into various cultures through their menus and public face.

[wilcopops]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

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I think that in reality C.I. has to be NEGATIVE in general as it involves domination.....however identifying thew negativity is not always obvious....giving good aid ior ideas isn't imperialistic, unless the are primarily "given" in order to increase the influence or power that the alien nation has over the other?

[wilcopops]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

MacDonalds ARE the sanctions - they impose a set of "values" on the nation they are "colonising". (As I said isn't isn't the food per se as that sonly part of the parcel. Mc D's take over property spend millions on advertising and employ locals on McD's terms often when they have lost jobs due to the arrival of McD's. Of course Mc D's is not the only one to do this.

[IMA_FARANG]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

------------------

Exactly the point.

You are blindly assuming that Thai women in a family have less influence than a male in that family.

That is an example of your 'cultural pre-conceptions".

Because you see what seems to be a subservient attitude by the women, you are making a big mistake in the structure of a Thai family.

In many, if not all Thai families, the women have great influence, actually more influence than the men.

The Thai men may seem to be dominant, but the women have the influence in three critical roles in a Thai family.

They are:

• The education of the children and the choice of their school.
• Religion (often Buddhist) and the religious education of the children.
• The control of the money and expenses for the children, needed to support the household. (No self-respecting Thai man would "lower" himself to argue to much about the money his wife claims to need to take care of the children, especially in those "women's" areas.. Arguing about that would be beneath his dignity)

So for that reason, in reality, in many Thai families it is actually the women who control the functioning of those families by controlling these three critical "woman's" areas.

The man is often a figurehead, it's really the women who have the power in the family.

And often, because it may be the eldest male that is held in the highest position in the family ..... it is in fact his wife ... the Grandmother.... as the oldest female that is REALLY in charge.

That's a fine example of western "cultural misinterpretation".

In many Thai families it's it is really "Khun Yai", Granny, who is really in charge.

When Granny speaks, everybody listens.

P.S. I will admit that this is the old traditional family, and nowadays things are changing rapidly.

Edited June 18, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[wilcopops]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

------------------

Exactly the point.

You are blindly assuming that Thai women in a family have less influence than a male in that family.

That is an example of your 'cultural pre-conceptions".

Because you see what seems to be a subservient attitude by the women, you are making a big mistake in the structure of a Thai family.

In many, if not all Thai families, the women have great influence, actually more influence than the men.

The Thai men may seem to be dominant, but the women have the influence in three critical roles in a Thai family.

They are:

• The education of the children and the choice of their school.
• Religion (often Buddhist) and the religious education of the children.
• The control of the money and expenses for the children, needed to support the household. (No self-respecting Thai man would "lower" himself to argue to much about the money his wife claims to need to take care of the children, especially in those "women's" areas.. Arguing about that would be beneath his dignity)

So for that reason, in reality, in many Thai families it is actually the women who control the functioning of those families by controlling these three critical "woman's" areas.

The man is often a figurehead, it's really the women who have the power in the family.

And often, because it may be the eldest male that is held in the highest position in the family ..... it is in fact his wife ... the Grandmother.... as the oldest female that is REALLY in charge.

That's a fine example of western "cultural misinterpretation".

In many Thai families it's it is really "Khun Yai", Granny, who is really in charge.

When Granny speaks, everybody listens.

P.S. I will admit that this is the old traditional family, and nowadays things are changing rapidly.

More schoolboy rhetoric.

The gender roles in Thai or any society for that matter are massively more complicated than this poster seems to have ever considered.

There relationship to Cultural Imperialism would be in terms of how another culture has INFLUENCED or MADE them change their roles in a way that benefits that other culture.

I' afraid that an examination of gender roles in Thai society could only take the form of gross generalisations on this thread and I suspect that most simply don't have the necessary background to form a valid opinion anyway.

"That's a fine example of western "cultural misinterpretation". - really and would you care to source or seine that expression?

[ATF]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

------------------

Exactly the point.

You are blindly assuming that Thai women in a family have less influence than a male in that family.

That is an example of your 'cultural pre-conceptions".

Because you see what seems to be a subservient attitude by the women, you are making a big mistake in the structure of a Thai family.

In many, if not all Thai families, the women have great influence, actually more influence than the men.

The Thai men may seem to be dominant, but the women have the influence in three critical roles in a Thai family.

They are:

• The education of the children and the choice of their school.
• Religion (often Buddhist) and the religious education of the children.
• The control of the money and expenses for the children, needed to support the household. (No self-respecting Thai man would "lower" himself to argue to much about the money his wife claims to need to take care of the children, especially in those "women's" areas.. Arguing about that would be beneath his dignity)

So for that reason, in reality, in many Thai families it is actually the women who control the functioning of those families by controlling these three critical "woman's" areas.

The man is often a figurehead, it's really the women who have the power in the family.

And often, because it may be the eldest male that is held in the highest position in the family ..... it is in fact his wife ... the Grandmother.... as the oldest female that is REALLY in charge.

That's a fine example of western "cultural misinterpretation".

In many Thai families it's it is really "Khun Yai", Granny, who is really in charge.

When Granny speaks, everybody listens.

P.S. I will admit that this is the old traditional family, and nowadays things are changing rapidly.

A very good understanding of the "system" although it is a more accurate description of Middle Class and Thai Chinese families i.e. the successful families.

Khun Som there is nothing wrong with a woman being feminine and and a man being masculine even if the woman is submissive but it's also the man's duty as a gentleman not to take advantage of her submissiveness and I have never met a woman who really wanted a submissive man. That's what makes a good relationship. Japanese women are much more submissive than Thai women to the point of boredom.

The thread is really more related to Globalization than CI.

Edited June 18, 2014 by ATF

[Thai at Heart]

There is a type of fallacious argument, usually connected with racism and promulgated by racists, that those who claim to be victims of racism are also capable of racism too....whether or not this is accurate, it is a fallacious argument. It in no way deters from the original premise...more of the same can't argue against. So to imply that because Thais may be guilty of cultural imperialism in no way negates the proposition that they are subject to the same themselves.

Unfortunately the OP appears not to know what cultural imperialism is so the whole premise is a moot point...as are subsequent postingsbuntil there is common agreement on what C.I. actually is.

I still fail to see what is being imposed on thailand.

Fair enough comment, but there is a great deal of pressure being applied by the international community on Thailand to comply to Western standards / UN conventions. e.g. do not comply we will put in-place sanctions such as withholding access to funds from the likes of IMF and the World Bank. Does this fall under the banner of cultural imperialism?

In terms of business, this is simply because the westerners are buyers. If you bring the money, you define the quality. That is the same the world over. Just look at the slavery issues.

Thailand chooses to be part of these organisations. I just don't see where the imperialism issue comes in. Thailand cannot live in isolation and isn't powerful enough to set its own agenda. Live with it.

They define the rules in their own country often to spite their own face. That's their prerogative.

[Thai at Heart]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

MacDonalds ARE the sanctions - they impose a set of "values" on the nation they are "colonising". (As I said isn't isn't the food per se as that sonly part of the parcel. Mc D's take over property spend millions on advertising and employ locals on McD's terms often when they have lost jobs due to the arrival of McD's. Of course Mc D's is not the only one to do this.

McDonalds thailand is a Thai company. As is 7-11 and all the other retailers. Retailing is a restricted industry and foreigners cannot own their businesses.

[wilcopops]

There is a type of fallacious argument, usually connected with racism and promulgated by racists, that those who claim to be victims of racism are also capable of racism too....whether or not this is accurate, it is a fallacious argument. It in no way deters from the original premise...more of the same can't argue against. So to imply that because Thais may be guilty of cultural imperialism in no way negates the proposition that they are subject to the same themselves.

Unfortunately the OP appears not to know what cultural imperialism is so the whole premise is a moot point...as are subsequent postingsbuntil there is common agreement on what C.I. actually is.

I still fail to see what is being imposed on thailand.

Fair enough comment, but there is a great deal of pressure being applied by the international community on Thailand to comply to Western standards / UN conventions. e.g. do not comply we will put in-place sanctions such as withholding access to funds from the likes of IMF and the World Bank. Does this fall under the banner of cultural imperialism?

In terms of business, this is simply because the westerners are buyers. If you bring the money, you define the quality. That is the same the world over. Just look at the slavery issues.

Thailand chooses to be part of these organisations. I just don't see where the imperialism issue comes in. Thailand cannot live in isolation and isn't powerful enough to set its own agenda. Live with it.

They define the rules in their own country often to spite their own face. That's their prerogative.

" this is simply because the westerners are buyers." - comments like that just show a huge misconception of how the world works.

"Thailand chooses to be part of these organisations" - again a really shallow comment - the point about the concept of imperialism is that it carries with it the idea of lack of autonomy by the recipient.....and what many fail to see is the lack of autonomy granted by multinational businesses and other governments..........just because a business succeeds or has customers it doesn't necessarily follow that this is through autonomous choice.....it often comes through subtle forms of coercion - culturally can be one of them....

Edited June 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

MacDonalds ARE the sanctions - they impose a set of "values" on the nation they are "colonising". (As I said isn't isn't the food per se as that sonly part of the parcel. Mc D's take over property spend millions on advertising and employ locals on McD's terms often when they have lost jobs due to the arrival of McD's. Of course Mc D's is not the only one to do this.

McDonalds thailand is a Thai company. As is 7-11 and all the other retailers. Retailing is a restricted industry and foreigners cannot own their businesses.

Again you don't seem to grasp the point - your argument is a bit like the "My cat has 4 legs" concept, which I'm sure you're aware of.

Ownership is not a necessary factor. ; it could even be irrelevant - it is the nature of McD's that is culturally intrusive and I would suggest imperialistic...... it relies on generating aspects of want and satisfaction in customers that are alien to Thai culture and introduces extreme capitalistic business practices that many would consider undesirable and alien to Thailand.

Edited June 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[simple1]

Posters here seem to be arguing from different directions because the term Cultural Imperialism is many faceted. The introduction to a society of better machines, medicine, computers, video games, TV's, mobile phones, McDonalds, Pizza and Dunkin Donuts are examples of Cultural Imperialism originating from commercial consumer based societies - mainly the industrial and commercial nations in the West and more advanced nations elsewhere such as Japan and South Korea. This is one form of Cultural Imperialism.

I can see many pros and cons of this. Better transport, railways, ability to travel, longer and better health through better medicines and the like. Also many disbenefits, worse health through fast food, imbalance to family communication through too much TV, lack of social interaction from mobile phone immersion and so on. Two sides of a coin really.

Then there is religious beliefs and, on a different tack, the morals of one society imposed on another society and also concepts of justice. You might separate justice and government organization here as yet another separation.

Some may see the ideas that corruption, rape, child sex, forced labour, inadequate education, prostitution and so on, should be minimized and democracy, rule of law and access to justice should be embraced, as being an unwelcome imposition on a society if it is imposed from the outside. Many of these ideas are not well embraced by Thailand and this form of Cultural Imperialism is often refuted - don't need foreigners telling us how to do it, being the general line of argument from Thai people. If you assume Thailand wants to keep some of these practices then yes, it does not need outside interference, and maybe that is the case. If it does want to embrace them then it would get huge benefit from listening and looking at how societies that are concerned with tackling these issues and have been doing so for decades or centuries, manage it.

Since the same societies that try to market their consumer based ideas on a nation are also the ones that see the moral based ideas as universal and seek to impose them on societies that are behind the curve, typically the poorer Asian and African countries where people are oppressed by self serving governments with little democracy.

So the question becomes rather split between the various streams of Cultural Imperialism. If the OP is anti a society being shunned by the West because it allows children to be raped or is uninterested in tackling the issue then I have to disagree with him, because I hold that children should never be subject to that regardless of culture or race. If he is saying that consumer based cultural imperialism is bad then on some facets he has my support. However lets face the fact that most cultures do not face sanctions from the West because they do not allow McDonalds to open in their society. Mostly sanctions arise from a refusal to adopt what the a West sees as universally moral ideologies.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

MacDonalds ARE the sanctions - they impose a set of "values" on the nation they are "colonising". (As I said isn't isn't the food per se as that sonly part of the parcel. Mc D's take over property spend millions on advertising and employ locals on McD's terms often when they have lost jobs due to the arrival of McD's. Of course Mc D's is not the only one to do this.

McDonalds thailand is a Thai company. As is 7-11 and all the other retailers. Retailing is a restricted industry and foreigners cannot own their businesses.

Again you don't seem to grasp the point - your argument is a bit like the "My cat has 4 legs" concept, which I'm sure you're aware of.

Ownership is not a necessary factor. ; it could even be irrelevant - it is the nature of McD's that is culturally intrusive and I would suggest imperialistic...... it relies on generating aspects of want and satisfaction in customers that are alien to Thai culture and introduces extreme capitalistic business practices that many would consider undesirable and alien to Thailand.

An interesting analysis of imperialism and the flow on effect of capitalism in Thailand is at the URL below. The article suggests the UK /Thai Bowring Treaty of 1855 was the catalyst.

http://links.org.au/node/1754

[wilcopops]

Yes the treaty was pivotal.....but I think the reason that so many on this thread "can't see" evidence of cultural imperialism is that several decades and several wars and governments later the process has become far more subtle and even secretive. It is easily confused with political or technological progress. No society or culture is STATIC....as any buddhist will tell nothing is permanent and change is inevitable, it is the factors involved in that change that need to be scrutinised.

Edited June 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[thailiketoo]

The reason so few Thai people speak English is they don't care about other cultures. Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. If they ate burgers it would be imperialism fish is regionalism.

The reason some people can't see cultural imperialism in Thailand is some people live in Thailand (they can't see it). Others live outside Thailand and they can see many things that are not real because Thailand for them is a fantasy world.

People who don't live in Thailand see Thailand through the culture where they do live and that is a skewed view. Like when I lived out side of Thailand I saw Thailand through a glass darkly.

[wilcopops]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Edited June 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[thailiketoo]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

[wilcopops]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

You really don't get it do you....the whole point of cultural imperialism is to get into a country and exploit it. As I said before food is almost irrelevant to McD's operations here and IU've already talked about how they alter their menus to inviegle their way into a culture. All you seem interested in is gainsaying my posts.

[Thai at Heart]

There is a type of fallacious argument, usually connected with racism and promulgated by racists, that those who claim to be victims of racism are also capable of racism too....whether or not this is accurate, it is a fallacious argument. It in no way deters from the original premise...more of the same can't argue against. So to imply that because Thais may be guilty of cultural imperialism in no way negates the proposition that they are subject to the same themselves.

Unfortunately the OP appears not to know what cultural imperialism is so the whole premise is a moot point...as are subsequent postingsbuntil there is common agreement on what C.I. actually is.

I still fail to see what is being imposed on thailand.

Fair enough comment, but there is a great deal of pressure being applied by the international community on Thailand to comply to Western standards / UN conventions. e.g. do not comply we will put in-place sanctions such as withholding access to funds from the likes of IMF and the World Bank. Does this fall under the banner of cultural imperialism?

In terms of business, this is simply because the westerners are buyers. If you bring the money, you define the quality. That is the same the world over. Just look at the slavery issues.

Thailand chooses to be part of these organisations. I just don't see where the imperialism issue comes in. Thailand cannot live in isolation and isn't powerful enough to set its own agenda. Live with it.

They define the rules in their own country often to spite their own face. That's their prerogative.

" this is simply because the westerners are buyers." - comments like that just show a huge misconception of how the world works.

"Thailand chooses to be part of these organisations" - again a really shallow comment - the point about the concept of imperialism is that it carries with it the idea of lack of autonomy by the recipient.....and what many fail to see is the lack of autonomy granted by multinational businesses and other governments..........just because a business succeeds or has customers it doesn't necessarily follow that this is through autonomous choice.....it often comes through subtle forms of coercion - culturally can be one of them....

Thailand can opt out of the UN if it likes. All countries are bound by the UN rules . its called being part of the gang.

Any buyer can insist on requests to be performed by a supplier. The supplier can refuse to supply. That's business. It wouldn't matter if its a Chinese supplier , or someone from timbuktoo.

I find it funny that you moan about foreign imperialism when the most corrupt and important of businesses for the poorest if Thais is in the hand of Thais.

Foreigners are not the enemy, the lives of millions of Thais are in the hands of CP, the rubber companies and other oligopolies. The ancestry of which is almost universally Thai Chinese.

The foreigner is not the bogeyman. Thais are already jumping to tune of another immigrant population.

You are defining what you think imperialism to be. But it doesn't change the fact that Thailand joins this organisations voluntarily. Just because that might not fit your agenda, that doesn't mean it isnt true.

If you wish to participate in being part of the world, there are certain rules and regs. If Thailand wants to ban McDonalds they can.no one is stopping them.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[thailiketoo]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

You really don't get it do you....the whole point of cultural imperialism is to get into a country and exploit it. As I said before food is almost irrelevant to McD's operations here and IU've already talked about how they alter their menus to inviegle their way into a culture. All you seem interested in is gainsaying my posts.

If Macs had changed their eating habits and exploited that change (beef) that would be imperialism. Since they didn't there is no imperialism. If I let you drive the direction of my responses that would be pedantic imperialism. Don't worry I won't.

Saying other people don't grasp the point is like the one legged frog story which I'm sure you are aware of. Try writing normally and not to impress people that you are educated and someone may be able to answer you.

Gainsay is now a formal word more common in BrE than in AmE. I'm not impressed.

[Thai at Heart]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

You really don't get it do you....the whole point of cultural imperialism is to get into a country and exploit it. As I said before food is almost irrelevant to McD's operations here and IU've already talked about how they alter their menus to inviegle their way into a culture. All you seem interested in is gainsaying my posts.

Classic misdirection. Indeed, one population has entered the country already and has exploited its land and people almost completely.

How much of the wealth is in Thai chinese hands. Anyone for a land tax. Of course the politicians are Thai Chinese too.

[thailiketoo]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

You really don't get it do you....the whole point of cultural imperialism is to get into a country and exploit it. As I said before food is almost irrelevant to McD's operations here and IU've already talked about how they alter their menus to inviegle their way into a culture. All you seem interested in is gainsaying my posts.

Classic misdirection. Indeed, one population has entered the country already and has exploited its land and people almost completely.

How much of the wealth is in Thai chinese hands. Anyone for a land tax. Of course the politicians are Thai Chinese too.

Interesting point. Is the money leaving Thailand? I thought there was a major influx of Chinese money into Thailand because the rich Chinese have lost faith in the Chinese economy.

[Thai at Heart]

"Thais don't go to MacDonald's and eat burgers; they eat fish and other things. " - possibly the most blinkered comment on the thread so far. What on earth do you think McD's survive on in Thailand?

the rest is simply ramblings based on......nothing?

Money from fish sandwiches. I was at Macs last weekend 37 people eating and not one burger. Come to Thailand and join with the others who have a real view of life in the LOS.

You really don't get it do you....the whole point of cultural imperialism is to get into a country and exploit it. As I said before food is almost irrelevant to McD's operations here and IU've already talked about how they alter their menus to inviegle their way into a culture. All you seem interested in is gainsaying my posts.

Classic misdirection. Indeed, one population has entered the country already and has exploited its land and people almost completely.

How much of the wealth is in Thai chinese hands. Anyone for a land tax. Of course the politicians are Thai Chinese too.

Interesting point. Is the money leaving Thailand? I thought there was a major influx of Chinese money into Thailand because the rich Chinese have lost faith in the Chinese economy.

In the case of CP, they are the single largest investor in China. Its debatable if they are a thai or a Chinese company. They are a genuine MNC in my view.

[thailiketoo]

I see hundreds of new condos and hotels going up. I can only think it is Chinese money coming in from the Chinese black/gray market that I think is starting to disappear. I'm sure it is an interesting business. The Chinese do own all the gold stores don't they? Moving large amounts of money would not be difficult.

[claffey]

I can only assume you mean rubber!!!

None of which is imperialism or forced onto Thailand.

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

[thailiketoo]

I can only assume you mean rubber!!!

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

Red Bull. Minor corp. Central group. Jasmine rice. Singha. Chang. Google 50 richest men in Thailand and find out a bit about the business of the country.

[MichaelJackson]

Came to see what it was all about, seems like a few people trying to prove who knows more, a d""k swinging contest...BORING, I'm off leave you to it.

[Smurkster]

Oh, the fun of reading forums like these!

[wilcopops]

i aree that many have little or no idea about successful Thai brands and it follows on that they are then in a poor position to put forward an argument........

HOWEVER RUBBER?

Do you not know the history of rubber and how it personifies the cash crops that imperialist nations foisted upon other countries?

(PS - the rubber plant comes from South America...like chillies and potatoes)

Edited June 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[MichaelJackson]

wow, bet he wears an anorak too !

[canuckamuck]

Some posters seem to feel that there is a perfection of culture that must never change. A more prosperous nation selling a popular item to its lesser is bound to defile them. They are so much better off to maintain exactly what they have and how they do it. In fact by this logic The Thais and other nations should outlaw recent technology and downgrade all there infrastructure several generations to be safe.