Auschwitz guard, 89, arrested in US

[Morch]

Having talked with survivors of Nazi death camps - hard for me to say that there is a general agreed sentiment on these things. Some relish the notion of revenge, or payback, and some do not (mostly not so much "let it be", as "what good will it do?").

My feeling is that the payback/revenge sentiment is somewhat more in evidence with the second generation of Holocaust survivors, but could be wrong.

Not sure what to think about it myself, really. Not going to be in issue a few years from now anyway, as most on the wanted lists and still living are in their 90's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Most_Wanted_Nazi_War_Criminals_according_to_the_Simon_Wiesenthal_Center

[Morch]

<

I bet with some of you who belong to the hang em high brigade your respective countries are simply so glad that they have got rid of such obnoxious self-righteous arm chair warriors they just can't believe their luck. No wonder most embassy's don't offer most expats any assistance in returning home if they are in trouble..because they don't want you back...The level of immaturity displayed on here sometimes is quite staggering.

That will stall extradition.

He was a Nazi that worked for a concentration camp where thousands were murdered. Don't count on it.

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy (to put it in perspective, most of you refer to the Redbull cop killer as a 'kid' and he is 30), an age where it is illegal to drink and if you have sex with someone that age they are considered minors. He was likely put on guard duty and told to walk up and down and stare at a fence all day, if he didn't he would be shot as a coward. I truly doubt he was a 'Nazi' at most he may have been caught up in the Hitler youth.

So, because he's old and it was 70 odd years ago he should be left alone in the USA in his digs in Pennsylvania? Just live a nice American retirement life?

A lot of American pilots and soldiers died fighting Hitler in Europe and a lot more than that were wounded. My dad was wounded.

Their kids and grandkids have*not*forgotten.

A completely stupid and frankly bloody idiotic post. Well if you have not forgotten then best you use your gun laws to their full extent and go out to town and shoot everyone called Fritz or Gunter or anyone that pronounces the letter 'w' as a 'v'. Because clearly it's their fault. In fact shoot any German over the age of 80 because at best they must have been collaborators by supporting the losing side eh! This 16-17 year old was sod all to do with Hitler, he was a piece of fodder, nothing else. Are you trying to tell me that one side was righteous and the other were not and that a 16 year old boy should carry the burden of Hitler? Hey wait a minute, why not after all the US and UK seem to think it ok to hold a 19 year old marine in prison for shooting an innocent civilian in war yet the two main criminals, Bush and Blair, responsible for the deaths of 500 000 innocent civilians walk free leading a life of luxury. This planet and those that populate it are completely screwed in the head.

The world really does need to forget and heal over the wrong-doings of WW2, if it could forget and heal then it would have a chance of progressing, because despite the 'we will not forget', and 'we will never let this happen again', it is bloody happening again....and again...and again all the time all over the world. All this going after a 90 year old scapegoat who was probably to young to even be enlisted at the time does is carry on the freak show and distract us from the gross humanitarian crimes being conducted today, some of them by the very 'nation' that demands we never forget their persecution. God I wish there was a bus off this planet sometimes.

I do not believe that the world needs to forget in order to heal.

History's lessons are important, even if it does take an inordinate amount of time for them to become an accepted

standard of human behavior.

[Dap]

Sick... Leave the old man alone unless there is conclusive proof of the allegations.

Why did they not chase the big money Nazis to Peru and Chile?

They did and they still do.

[rijb]

<

I bet with some of you who belong to the hang em high brigade your respective countries are simply so glad that they have got rid of such obnoxious self-righteous arm chair warriors they just can't believe their luck. No wonder most embassy's don't offer most expats any assistance in returning home if they are in trouble..because they don't want you back...The level of immaturity displayed on here sometimes is quite staggering.

That will stall extradition.

He was a Nazi that worked for a concentration camp where thousands were murdered. Don't count on it.

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy (to put it in perspective, most of you refer to the Redbull cop killer as a 'kid' and he is 30), an age where it is illegal to drink and if you have sex with someone that age they are considered minors. He was likely put on guard duty and told to walk up and down and stare at a fence all day, if he didn't he would be shot as a coward. I truly doubt he was a 'Nazi' at most he may have been caught up in the Hitler youth.

So, because he's old and it was 70 odd years ago he should be left alone in the USA in his digs in Pennsylvania? Just live a nice American retirement life?

A lot of American pilots and soldiers died fighting Hitler in Europe and a lot more than that were wounded. My dad was wounded.

Their kids and grandkids have*not*forgotten.

A completely stupid and frankly bloody idiotic post. Well if you have not forgotten then best you use your gun laws to their full extent and go out to town and shoot everyone called Fritz or Gunter or anyone that pronounces the letter 'w' as a 'v'. Because clearly it's their fault. In fact shoot any German over the age of 80 because at best they must have been collaborators by supporting the losing side eh! This 16-17 year old was sod all to do with Hitler, he was a piece of fodder, nothing else. Are you trying to tell me that one side was righteous and the other were not and that a 16 year old boy should carry the burden of Hitler? Hey wait a minute, why not after all the US and UK seem to think it ok to hold a 19 year old marine in prison for shooting an innocent civilian in war yet the two main criminals, Bush and Blair, responsible for the deaths of 500 000 innocent civilians walk free leading a life of luxury. This planet and those that populate it are completely screwed in the head.

The world really does need to forget and heal over the wrong-doings of WW2, if it could forget and heal then it would have a chance of progressing, because despite the 'we will not forget', and 'we will never let this happen again', it is bloody happening again....and again...and again all the time all over the world. All this going after a 90 year old scapegoat who was probably to young to even be enlisted at the time does is carry on the freak show and distract us from the gross humanitarian crimes being conducted today, some of them by the very 'nation' that demands we never forget their persecution. God I wish there was a bus off this planet sometimes.

We'll chip in for your ticket.

[Chicog]

If they have evidence, there is no statute of limitations for me.

Wheel them into court on a stretcher if they have to.

[Maggusoil]

put him in prison and if he has a pension, give it to some jewish institute?

The Nazis killed "millions" of Christians and others, who rarely get a mention.

Justice has to be seen to be done, even if its pricey. Problem is, they always throw the expense on today's tax payers and not those that can afford it.

[simple1]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

Americans know a lot about their history. Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into the European theater due to the continual begging of Churchill. First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.

Why should Americans have gone to Europe? Are they the world's police as ungrateful Europeans like to call them? They went because the allies needed help, and you denigrate the 100,000 of them who's bodies were never repatriated.

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk.

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much.

I am English and have always respected the effort and sacrifice made by the US in defeating Nazi Germany and helping the UK when at their lowest ebb. However please don't use the word 'gave', remember nearly all material support provided by the US to the UK had to be paid, albeit at a low rate of interest, from memory the last payment for the debt was in the 1990s.

Interesting POV regards the Japanese aircraft carriers; from Wiki...

One of six carriers to participate in the Pearl Harbor attack, Zuikaku was the last of the six to be sunk in the war (four in the Battle of Midway and Shōkaku in the Battle of the Philippine Sea). All sunk whilst members of battle groups attacking, not retreating

[smotherb]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

He may be extradited to Israel, Germany just provided the evidence.

[renaissanc]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

For me the value of arresting old-age criminals is the message it sends to criminals, especially politicians, who will realize that one day they may be arrested for their crimes, and it often comes when one is very old. Karma carches up eventually.

[The stuttering parrot]

Simon Wiesenthal is looking down and smiling!

[Robby nz]

Forgetting the past and going after this fellow 70 years on as some kind of weird revenge are two different things.

Although with the goings on in this world since WW11 it would seem some have very short memories.

No never forget, but learn from the mistakes of the past, whether it be on a personal or world wide basis.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

From the poem by Robert Laurence Binyon

[Ulysses G.]

also lets not forget that the nazi death camps didn't get into final solution mode until after the US gained air-superiority and started carpet bombing German held territories

What an ignorant post. The Nazis started implementing the "Final Solution" - murdering Jews because of their religion - in 1941. The Germans did not lose air superiority until 1944. Your foolish rationalizations for mass murder are delusional.

[tboxcar]

In my opinion its' utterly ridiculous we still chase after these people after 70 years, it purely for revenge. So let's start going after the Cambodians involved in the Killing fields, Hell we would have to invade the entire country to rout the evil ones during the Pol Pot regime, then let's go to Japan and rout the war criminals, surely there must be a few old men in the 80's and 90's we can lock up and then execute....Where next China and the 60 milion killed or starved to death in the Cultural Revolution, and there is always Africa,,,,ooops almost forgotten the Stalinist regimen who murdered far more many people that the Nazis, better invade them next and lock up Putin and his cronies for hiding them.

Many atrocities have occurred in the last 100 years or more, but if we spend our lives seeking revenge on other cultures, we are probably not much better than them, if this world is going to last much longer we need to come to peace with ourselves and understand our shortcomings, or we are all doomed.....Enough

[Ulysses G.]

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy

He volunteered for the SS. He was a willing collaborator. No one forced him to do anything.

158 train-loads of Jews were taken to the killing center at Auschwitz in just six-months. Thousands of women, children and old people, were killed in gas chambers almost immediately after arriving at Auschwitz, with their bodies burned in four crematories. There is no way that he did not know what was going on and most likely he participated in the slaughter. It is finally time for him to take responsibility for his crimes.

[jope]

In my opinion its' utterly ridiculous we still chase after these people after 70 years, it purely for revenge. So let's start going after the Cambodians involved in the Killing fields, Hell we would have to invade the entire country to rout the evil ones during the Pol Pot regime, then let's go to Japan and rout the war criminals, surely there must be a few old men in the 80's and 90's we can lock up and then execute....Where next China and the 60 milion killed or starved to death in the Cultural Revolution, and there is always Africa,,,,ooops almost forgotten the Stalinist regimen who murdered far more many people that the Nazis, better invade them next and lock up Putin and his cronies for hiding them.

Many atrocities have occurred in the last 100 years or more, but if we spend our lives seeking revenge on other cultures, we are probably not much better than them, if this world is going to last much longer we need to come to peace with ourselves and understand our shortcomings, or we are all doomed.....Enough

I do not think that it is revenge (not enough emotional involvement for us who were lucky to be born after "the unspeakable"). I think it is actually a German signal to the world: we are not willing to let it go. There might not be much left to do, but that little, that we want to have. Furthermore, it is a signal to those who commit their atrocities in various parts of the world, meaning, they might feel safe now, but in the years to come they might face the consequences even they you have not thought about their crimes for decades.

I personally (German and in the police for 37 years now) think, that it is a success and the arrest gives me a deep feeling of satisfaction: another murderer caught, who had 70 years of life that his victims did not have (assuming that he actually did it, which still has to be proved, of course).

[jope]

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy

He volunteered for the SS. He was a willing collaborator. No one forced him to do anything.

158 train-loads of Jews were taken to the killing center at Auschwitz in just six-months. Thousands of women, children and old people, were killed in gas chambers almost immediately after arriving at Auschwitz, with their bodies burned in four crematories. There is no way that he did not know what was going on and most likely he participated in the slaughter. It is finally time for him to take responsibility for his crimes.

You are absolutely right.

Witness statements and all scientific investigations to that regard show that those very,very,very few who refused to take part in those ordered murders had nothing to fear: they were not shot on the spot, they were not punished, they did not even receive a clap on the wrist. Transferral to another unit and an embarrassed look from the commanding officer was the worst they had to expect. That perfectly supports what my father (had to fight in Russia and was a POW there) once told us: when a soldier was "sentenced" to be shot you did not have to force somebody to be part of the firing squad, there were ALWAYS plenty of volunteers.

[Ulysses G.]

A illuminating book on the subject.

[CMNightRider]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

I guess you can say America was dragged into WWII, but "kicking and screaming?" I think not. Did you ever hear of the "Treaty of Versailles?" The US didn't sign it because they thought is was to harsh on the Germans, and it would make the Germans retaliate. Maybe you should read a little history before you make idiotic statements about when and why America entered WWII.

[Ulysses G.]

Speaking of history lessons. The Aryan Brotherhood are not real Nazis. They mostly just display the symbols for shock value like the Hells Angels and other 1% MCs. One of the leaders is Jewish and so are some of the members. They were formed for protection against other prison gangs. Some members are actual white supremists, but most could care less about that sort of thing.

[Scott]

Inflammatory and off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Saradoc1972]

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy

He volunteered for the SS. He was a willing collaborator. No one forced him to do anything.

158 train-loads of Jews were taken to the killing center at Auschwitz in just six-months. Thousands of women, children and old people, were killed in gas chambers almost immediately after arriving at Auschwitz, with their bodies burned in four crematories. There is no way that he did not know what was going on and most likely he participated in the slaughter. It is finally time for him to take responsibility for his crimes.

"Volunteering" at that point in time comes in a good couple different flavours.

The SS were some special forces, they were started as paramilitaries to terrorize political opponents before Hitler came to power and kept going after that before the war started. During the war, they kept their role as political police in and outside Germany. They also were a fighting force acting parallel to the regular army to commit some of the atrocities, the regular army was not so much in that business (obviously things happen during war, they are not totally clean).

The SS were also supposed to be an elite force, that abated start of 1940 when they tried to get more people aboard to keep their role as a parallel army under Hitlers direct command.

In "volunteering" to join the SS our octogenarian could have wanted to be part of supposed elite forces, not knowing what they were up to or where he personally would wind up. Hitler did not put the worst camps outside Germany for nothing. Some parts of the populace probably knew something, some suspected something, but not everybody.

He might have beeen drafted, found a strapping young lad, and told he was now "volunteering" for the SS and in no position to decline.

Also, with the beginning of the "Volkssturm" in 1944, where everybody from 15 to 60-sth. was called upon to fight the "invaders" off, at least manning flak stations.

A lot of 15-y-o, during that process, "were volunteered" into the SS. It was "an offer you can't refuse", other than by getting hanged from a street light. At age 15.

Once in Poland, I don't see a way for him as a soldier to say he did not want to be there. He'd have been shot at dawn.

My point here is: it might be the morally right thing to go through with that trial. It is going to be a moot exercise, but with moral decisions most opinions are valid.

Don't be fooled by any "evidence", that most probably only proofs he was in the general area, which he admitted to. The Nazis were not in the business of keeping orderly records about who did what and killed whom, so you'd have to rely on witnesses identifying an 89-y-o whom they saw aged 15, and those are hard to come by.

There will just be no call to make his life miserable until the end of proceedings. No point in detention, this old geezer is not going anywhere.

There was one case early this year in Germany, where they tried to haul a 92-y-o from is old-age home for pre-trial detention. Got whacked round the head by the judge, and also there is not going to be a trial. They determined he wouldn't last it anyway.

[uptheos]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

Americans know a lot about their history. Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into the European theater due to the continual begging of Churchill. First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.

Why should Americans have gone to Europe? Are they the world's police as ungrateful Europeans like to call them? They went because the allies needed help, and you denigrate the 100,000 of them who's bodies were never repatriated.

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk.

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much.

There are a lot of grateful people in Europe, I'm one of them.

I shiver to think of what would have happened, if Hitler achieved everything he wanted

[MikeOboe57]

A illuminating book on the subject.

Now I understand your posts.

To quote the Austrian Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg: "by the end of 1996, it was clear that in sharp distinction from lay readers, much of the academic world had wiped Goldhagen off the map." You should do that too. And another quote from the British historian Elstein: "he is the kind of scholar who is either unaware of the facts or prefers to exclude those which do not fit his thesis." Or the Israeli historian Yehuda Bauer: "Goldhagen stumbles badly," and "does not seem to be acquainted with some basic developments in German society in the nineteenth century." Etc ad nauseam... (Wiki)

Goldhagen is not even a historian, he was associate professor of political science and social studies. And the fact that he is being driven by a personal agenda does not help him to cover his major flaws and deficiencies. He is the last person I would seek for information about the Holocaust, even if Donald and Daisy Duck were included in the selection.

[Pakboong]

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They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

Americans know a lot about their history. Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into the European theater due to the continual begging of Churchill. First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.

Why should Americans have gone to Europe? Are they the world's police as ungrateful Europeans like to call them? They went because the allies needed help, and you denigrate the 100,000 of them who's bodies were never repatriated.

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk.

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much.

I don't disagree with your sentiments - but you need to brush up on your history. Roosevelt recognized the Nazi threat very early on and knew, that despite the counter arguments of people like Kennedy snr., America would have to fight them at some point, if the French and British didn't beat them. He supplied equipment and as much help as possible. There is no doubt the half American Churchill played him as much as he could, but Roosevelt was as clever, if not more so.

Were the Japanese carrier's really pursued, caught and sunk after Pear Harbor? Maybe the battle of Midway is worth reading about.

Many Americans didn't wait and went and fought in Europe before their country was at war. On becoming embroiled many very brave Americans gave their lives, as did many allied service people. The point is that the Americans and British, in particular, hate injustice and tyranny, and were prepared to make the ultimate sacrifices.

Germany and the German people recognized the evils of Nazism and made strenuous efforts to make sure it never happens again. They tried to bring criminals to justice and have strict laws regarding Nazi symbolism and doctrine. The fact they are pursing this ex SS guard after so many years shows their commitment and also their understanding that Nazism isn't completely eradicated.

On the other hand what has Japan done. Refuses to acknowledge its appalling war crimes - Nanking, mass rape and murder, ethnic killings, grand larceny, and the brutal exploitation and murder of POW's. Japan is not contrite, does not teach its children the real history and has never made any efforts to recognize its appalling behavior. Japan has never pursued its war criminals.

Some posters say move on. Others say don't forger. Whatever - but it should not be the double standard that perpetuates to this day.

Japan was significantly more brutal than the Nazis ever were. For example, roughly 8% of POWs captured by the Germans died in captivity and the number captured by the Japanese was roughly 25%. That is significant enough to deserve a mention but it rarely does.

I can tell your first hand that the number of North Vietnamese POWs captured by the Americans during our South East Asia wars was much closer to 100% than it was to the 8% Nazi mortality rate. Turns out that the safest place to hang out during WW2 was in a Nazi POW camp.

The number simply means it deserves consideration and not lost as completely unimportant. Even Allied Jews who spent time in POW camps had the same mortality rate as did the rest of the POWs.

Nobody seems to have a problem that the rising sun still flies high over the Japanese Embassy but try hanging swastika and all hell will break loose.

Perhaps all of this has something to do with who controls the News.

[Pakboong]

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He was a 16 or 17 year old boy

He volunteered for the SS. He was a willing collaborator. No one forced him to do anything.

158 train-loads of Jews were taken to the killing center at Auschwitz in just six-months. Thousands of women, children and old people, were killed in gas chambers almost immediately after arriving at Auschwitz, with their bodies burned in four crematories. There is no way that he did not know what was going on and most likely he participated in the slaughter. It is finally time for him to take responsibility for his crimes.

"Volunteering" at that point in time comes in a good couple different flavours.

The SS were some special forces, they were started as paramilitaries to terrorize political opponents before Hitler came to power and kept going after that before the war started. During the war, they kept their role as political police in and outside Germany. They also were a fighting force acting parallel to the regular army to commit some of the atrocities, the regular army was not so much in that business (obviously things happen during war, they are not totally clean).

The SS were also supposed to be an elite force, that abated start of 1940 when they tried to get more people aboard to keep their role as a parallel army under Hitlers direct command.

In "volunteering" to join the SS our octogenarian could have wanted to be part of supposed elite forces, not knowing what they were up to or where he personally would wind up. Hitler did not put the worst camps outside Germany for nothing. Some parts of the populace probably knew something, some suspected something, but not everybody.

He might have beeen drafted, found a strapping young lad, and told he was now "volunteering" for the SS and in no position to decline.

Also, with the beginning of the "Volkssturm" in 1944, where everybody from 15 to 60-sth. was called upon to fight the "invaders" off, at least manning flak stations.

A lot of 15-y-o, during that process, "were volunteered" into the SS. It was "an offer you can't refuse", other than by getting hanged from a street light. At age 15.

Once in Poland, I don't see a way for him as a soldier to say he did not want to be there. He'd have been shot at dawn.

My point here is: it might be the morally right thing to go through with that trial. It is going to be a moot exercise, but with moral decisions most opinions are valid.

Don't be fooled by any "evidence", that most probably only proofs he was in the general area, which he admitted to. The Nazis were not in the business of keeping orderly records about who did what and killed whom, so you'd have to rely on witnesses identifying an 89-y-o whom they saw aged 15, and those are hard to come by.

There will just be no call to make his life miserable until the end of proceedings. No point in detention, this old geezer is not going anywhere.

There was one case early this year in Germany, where they tried to haul a 92-y-o from is old-age home for pre-trial detention. Got whacked round the head by the judge, and also there is not going to be a trial. They determined he wouldn't last it anyway.

To add to your comments which I think are accurate, the hands-on camp guards were usually Ukrainians or Jews who policed other Jews. Virtually all the day-to-day brutality within the fences was handed out by the Ukrainians seeking to gain some kind of revenge for the Holodomor.

Each camp had a cadre of SS or other regulars but they seldom dealt directly with the inmates. This guy's statement that he was there but worked outside the camp are probably accurate.

[Ulysses G.]

A illuminating book on the subject.

Now I understand your posts.

My posts have little to do with one controversial book. They are based on the fact that he volunteered for the SS and that thousands of women, children and old people were killed in gas chambers after arriving at Auschwitz. and that there is no way that he did not know what was going on. "Befehl ist Befehl" - "Orders are Orders" - did not work as a excuse for the Nazis at Nuremberg and it should not work for this guy who ran away from his sins.

[Pakboong]

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utterly absurd going after these poor old guys.. none of the <deleted> prosecuting these men were alive during wwii so they have no idea what it was like.. if these guys refused military service and orders-they would have been shot dead on the spot, you think your gonna cry conscious objector to the nazi's? all the people supporting this crap would have done the same thing-they would not have taken a bullet in the head because 'bad things' were going on in the prison camp that they were guarding, would someone who piks on an old war veteran have so much courage-doubtful.

also lets not forget that the nazi death camps didn't get into final solution mode until after the US gained air-superiority and started carpet bombing German held territories, there were food shortages in the major cities and most of the deaths in the concentration camps were caused by disease and starvation. Robert McNamera once said that if the US had lost the war "we would have all been tried as war criminals"-referring to the fire bombing of tokyo ,the atomic bombings, and bombings of German civilians areas..

After D-Day, the allies destroyed the German rail-lines and essentially doomed the camps during one of the harshest winters ever without coal, medicine and food. Beginning in November of 1944, the ground was frozen solid. The Typhus epidemic that was rampant in the camps and with no coal to run the ovens all bodies ended up piled in and around the camps. You couldn't cremate them and you couldn't bury and there were times toward the end of the war than as meny as 5,000 died of disease, starvation, over work, etc... each month. Imagine arriving to liberate the camp and seeing as many as 40,000 naked bodies piled up everywhere. Note that their clothes were removed by other inmates. Only the Ukranian guards were left to face the Soviets as they approached from the East.

The camps liberated by the Americans in the west were pretty much in the same shape. Frozen ground, no coal, etc the bodies were piled everywhere you looked. Dachau for example was liberated by the Americans who machine gunned over 400 Ukrainian guards who were left behind by the German cadre who tried to make their way home or to Berlin.

[Ulysses G.]

Again, implementing the "Final Solution" - the German plan to murder each and every Jew - started in 1941 - long before D Day.

[metisdead]

A post inviting off topic discussion has been removed.

[Humberstone]

Again, implementing the "Final Solution" - the German plan to murder each and every Jew - started in 1941 - long before D Day.

Exactly, they started well before the Wannasee Conference when this was formalized in 1942 and well before the Allies had 'air superiority' over Axis airspace. I can't understand all the revisionist agendas of other posters.