Why don’t you “fly the flag”?

[Morakot]

Excellent Costas!

 

Looks good, but I wonder whether you get many people wondering in trying to renew their Greek passports...

[Naam]

I´ve no idea how to fix any problems regarding the avatar issue when using the TV´s own option. I just noticed all the problems you are having too, like the avatar in the profile and the acutal posts don´t match or the picture seem to change randomly by itself. I never figured out how to solve that. Maybe you stick to your support thread then. 

 

So right now you don´t use Gravatar because it´s stupid to register? Maybe, but if you finally did register there it´s a breeze compared to the TV system.

 

 

To stay on topic, I don´t have any flag of the Vaterland, though I love and miss it. Never felt to need to show everyone where I´m from. Most of the time I´m even "undervocer" with some US or UK Polo shirts 

i did not find it "stupid" to register but "impossible" to register. but now, with you as an advisor and guru, i might be able to register using your kind guidance  

[I knew this would happen]

 

I´ve no idea how to fix any problems regarding the avatar issue when using the TV´s own option. I just noticed all the problems you are having too, like the avatar in the profile and the acutal posts don´t match or the picture seem to change randomly by itself. I never figured out how to solve that. Maybe you stick to your support thread then. 

 

So right now you don´t use Gravatar because it´s stupid to register? Maybe, but if you finally did register there it´s a breeze compared to the TV system.

 

 

To stay on topic, I don´t have any flag of the Vaterland, though I love and miss it. Never felt to need to show everyone where I´m from. Most of the time I´m even "undervocer" with some US or UK Polo shirts 

i did not find it "stupid" to register but "impossible" to register. but now, with you as an advisor and guru, i might be able to register using your kind guidance 

 

Ahh sorry, what I wanted to write was like: You didn´t like the registration procedure there. What I wrote imposes you don´t like Gravatar 

[bonobo]

Let's leave off the support issues in this thread. Those are covered in the support forum. Thanks.

[silver sea]

... My original question was, are you proud of your own country as to display your national flag or you have just forgotten everything living the good life in Thailand?

Raybal5, quite agree with you, and many thanks for the links provided.
But you have to understand, Greece is my country, the country I was born, the country I grew up.
And I'm very proud and love my country, whatever the situation is there.
At the moment, the only physical connection I have with Greece is that flag, flying on my front gate.
Please, allow me to retain the good memories, I don't hurt anybody.
I really hope, for the good of Greece and the good of the EU, as a whole, better days will come.

... and I also liked Jinjo14's earlier post (top of page 6 on this thread):

it must be the mediterrenean spirit ... i proudly fly my maltese flag in the front of the wife's house (never meant to disrispect thais)... we live in a small villiage ... the house has three thai flags and maltese one ... wife's father put it up himself for me.  i had asked my wife if it poses any problems before and she said no problem.
 
i cant understand all the negative posts in this thread.  live and let live ... if the thai people have no problem with me flying my flag, i certainly wouldn't listen to posters on here.
 
there's nothing wrong in being proud of your roots

Nicely put by both of you. I am almost persuaded ... but not quite :)

Nothing wrong, as individuals, in taking pride in your country's history or cultural heritage, or in being proud of your roots. I am not sure, though, that I would want to go as far as raising the flag, but, as I have said in an earlier post, we come from different cultures.

The problem for most of us, perhaps, who do not come from a Mediterranean culture, is that we have seen what happens when groups of people, particularly during difficult economic and political times, start waving the national flag. Prejudice, based on skin colour and/or religion, appears; a sense of "them and us"; and violence quickly follows.

In British English, someone once said "Patriotism is the last refute of the scoundrel." There have been plenty of scoundrels in British history: Tony Blair, and his spin doctor, Alistair Campbell, in the run up to the Second Gulf War, are but the most recent.

Anyway, Costas, having read a number of your posts on various threads recently I know that you mean well.

[KarenBravo]

Probably a typo, but that should read "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

The other danger is that those that fly flags will consider themselves as patriots and those that do not will be considered as unpatriotic by the self-appointed "patriot". A division into Us and Them.

Indeed, Costas2008 has implicitly implied that people who are not willing to fly their flag have no "ideals or aspirations" (see post #162) which proves this point very nicely.

Edited July 4, 2014 by KarenBravo

[silver sea]

Probably a typo, but that should read "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
The other danger is that those that fly flags will consider themselves as patriots and those that do not will be considered as unpatriotic by the self-appointed "patriot". A division into Us and Them.
Indeed, Costas2008 has implicitly implied that people who are not willing to fly their flag have no "ideals or aspirations" (see post #162) which proves this point very nicely.

Yes it was a typo. Thanks for the correction ... or as Captain Mainwaring used to say in Dad's Army, whenever he was caught out: "I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that." :)

Actually, "last refute" is not such a bad alternative to "last refuge". On television, scoundrels, when on the defensive, will often say: "I refute that". The word means that you can show that an accusation is false by backing up your denial with proof. They never can or do; what they say is in fact no more than a bare denial, and is, therefore, suspect.

[Costas2008]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

it must be the mediterrenean spirit ... i proudly fly my maltese flag in the front of the wife's house (never meant to disrispect thais)... we live in a small villiage ... the house has three thai flags and maltese one ... wife's father put it up himself for me.  i had asked my wife if it poses any problems before and she said no problem.
 
i cant understand all the negative posts in this thread.  live and let live ... if the thai people have no problem with me flying my flag, i certainly wouldn't listen to posters on here.
 
there's nothing wrong in being proud of your roots

Nicely put by both of you. I am almost persuaded ... but not quite

Nothing wrong, as individuals, in taking pride in your country's history or cultural heritage, or in being proud of your roots. I am not sure, though, that I would want to go as far as raising the flag, but, as I have said in an earlier post, we come from different cultures.

The problem for most of us, perhaps, who do not come from a Mediterranean culture, is that we have seen what happens when groups of people, particularly during difficult economic and political times, start waving the national flag. Prejudice, based on skin colour and/or religion, appears; a sense of "them and us"; and violence quickly follows.

In British English, someone once said "Patriotism is the last refute of the scoundrel." There have been plenty of scoundrels in British history: Tony Blair, and his spin doctor, Alistair Campbell, in the run up to the Second Gulf War, are but the most recent.

Anyway, Costas, having read a number of your posts on various threads recently I know that you mean well.

 

 

 

Probably a typo, but that should read "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

The other danger is that those that fly flags will consider themselves as patriots and those that do not will be considered as unpatriotic by the self-appointed "patriot". A division into Us and Them.

Indeed, Costas2008 has implicitly implied that people who are not willing to fly their flag have no "ideals or aspirations" (see post #162) which proves this point very nicely.

 

Today, USA, celebrates their independence from the English.

They fought and died to gain their independence and the only way they succeeded was because of their bravery and patriotism.

Many, other countries also fought for their freedom and independence, and patriotism led them to their victories.

Israel being another example.

So, according to Samuel Johnson, that you quoted, all these people were scoundrels?

I still believe, that there is something wrong in your thinking and understanding of the ideal, called patriotism.

Even, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism.

Karen, people that have no sense of patriotism are the ones without any ideals or aspirations and not only the ones that don't fly their flags, that is only an extension to patriotism.

 

 

[KarenBravo]

You just don't get it do you Costas.

I'll make it real simple for you.

 

You don't have to fly a flag to be a patriot.

You don't have to fly a flag, or, to even be a patriot to have ideals and aspirations.

 

Got it now?

Edited July 4, 2014 by KarenBravo

[osten]

+1

This is one of the main reasons I don't do it.

Flying your own country flag is an excellent way to call attention to your house as a choice target when burglars are casing the neighborhood. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rgs2001uk]

I wonder what Khun Costas would make of it if he passed by my house and saw a swastika flying from it.

 

Is his choice of flying a flag any more PC than mine?

[ukrules]

I don't fly any flags. Never have, never will.

[silver sea]

Today, USA, celebrates their independence from the English.
They fought and died to gain their independence and the only way they succeeded was because of their bravery and patriotism.
Many, other countries also fought for their freedom and independence, and patriotism led them to their victories.
Israel being another example.
So, according to Samuel Johnson, that you quoted, all these people were scoundrels?
I still believe, that there is something wrong in your thinking and understanding of the ideal, called patriotism.
Even, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism.
Karen, people that have no sense of patriotism are the ones without any ideals or aspirations and not only the ones that don't fly their flags, that is only an extension to patriotism.

Hello Costas

Thank you for your comments.

Who are the scoundrels? Well, it depends on who is writing the history books. Someone once said: "History is written by the victors". You referred to the American War of Independence (Happy Birthday USA by the way!). There were colonists during that war who remained loyal to Britain. They were brave and patriotic too, but they were on the losing side. Today, they are remembered not as patriots, but as traitors.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, I can remember extreme right wing groups like the National Front (NF) and the British National Party (BNP) trying to identify themselves and their politics with the Union Jack. They wanted a "Whites Only" Britain. They wrapped themselves in the flag; they thought that they were being patriotic too.

Thankfully, they are history now. Since then, though, I have always felt uncomfortable when someone starts identifying themselves with their national flag. It's too "in your face". It kind of suggests that those who are not like them are, at best, unlucky, or, at worst, lesser mortals. We are what we are by an accident of birth.

I don't doubt that both you and Jinjo14 sincerely love your respective countries and are proud of your roots. If flying your flag helps you to feel that love and pride then good for you, but you cannot assume that others who, for cultural and historical reasons, choose not to fly the flag, must, automatically, be unpatriotic.


Edited for typos. Edited July 4, 2014 by jukebox

[kannot]

I cant seem to find this airline mentioned "flag".I fly  Emirates but to be honest I find  them pretty crap

Surely  we  need a "planet Earth Flag" which can outrank all others in this stupid game of nationalistic BS.

[MJP]

I cant seem to find this airline mentioned "flag".I fly  Emirates but to be honest I find  them pretty crap
Surely  we  need a "planet Earth Flag" which can outrank all others in this stupid game of nationalistic BS.

Yes!

Countries, borders, are just a mass delusion. They don't actually exist.


Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[silver sea]

I cant seem to find this airline mentioned "flag".I fly  Emirates but to be honest I find  them pretty crap
Surely  we  need a "planet Earth Flag" which can outrank all others in this stupid game of nationalistic BS.

You want to "fly the flag"? Well here you go:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=kp&v=2nkbcqA1_mY

😜


... but I understand your sentiments 😊

[Sandman77]

Nice topic just found!
We not see pictures of ASEAN flag yet[attachment=273930:ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1404523296.533147.jpg]

I allready aswer the flag question one month ago in another topic
In Thailand it depend on the area
Where flags are ' allowed'
Put also my home flag on my house in isaan also the nabours helped me, one day later 20 people come to my wife and ask what this is,
Another day later my wife remove my flag to shy aswer question!
In my home I also have a Thai flag no problem at all, because all like Thailand , and that one not do was never here ..

[Berkshire]

You just don't get it do you Costas.

I'll make it real simple for you.

 

You don't have to fly a flag to be a patriot.

You don't have to fly a flag, or, to even be a patriot to have ideals and aspirations.

 

Got it now?

 

You've just reinforced this article that I just read about so-called "patriotism" in America. 
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/05/upshot/younger-americans-are-less-patriotic-at-least-in-some-ways.html?_r=0

 

In summary, the article suggest that the older generation tends to feel more attachment to symbols such as the flag, whereas the younger generation, not so much.  But the younger generation does very much support the ideals of Americanism, such as democracy and equality.  So if the older generation were to judge the young based on their own perceptions of what patriotism means, they will unfairly label the young as being less patriotic when this is clearly not the case.  Truly a generational gap.

[thaibeachlovers]

 

I cant seem to find this airline mentioned "flag".I fly  Emirates but to be honest I find  them pretty crap
Surely  we  need a "planet Earth Flag" which can outrank all others in this stupid game of nationalistic BS.

Yes!

Countries, borders, are just a mass delusion. They don't actually exist.


Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Quite right too. When the Normans invaded what are now the British Isles, they claimed part of France as well, and sometime in the future that changed. Borders and countries change all the time. South Sudan for example and now we are seeing Iraq being divided.

Most modern countries were created by colonial powers and made no reference to the tribes that existed within them, which is why tribal wars are being fought all over the place now.

[thaibeachlovers]

Oops. Software glitch allowing multiple posts.

[harrry]

[attachment=274081:22 (1).jpg]I guess Costas2008 even has on one of these.

 http://www.loowithaview.com.au/product/greece/116

 

 

[Stradavarius37]

To many hyper sensitive people - fly it if your want to Costas.


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[zydeco]

 

You just don't get it do you Costas.

I'll make it real simple for you.

 

You don't have to fly a flag to be a patriot.

You don't have to fly a flag, or, to even be a patriot to have ideals and aspirations.

 

Got it now?

 

You've just reinforced this article that I just read about so-called "patriotism" in America. 
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/05/upshot/younger-americans-are-less-patriotic-at-least-in-some-ways.html?_r=0

 

In summary, the article suggest that the older generation tends to feel more attachment to symbols such as the flag, whereas the younger generation, not so much.  But the younger generation does very much support the ideals of Americanism, such as democracy and equality.  So if the older generation were to judge the young based on their own perceptions of what patriotism means, they will unfairly label the young as being less patriotic when this is clearly not the case.  Truly a generational gap.

 

 

Maybe the NYT article is asking millennials in America about the wrong flag?  Instead of the US flag, they should have asked them about the Mexican flag.
 

[raybal5]

[quote name="Costas2008" post="8054903" timestamp="1404447538"]

[quote name="raybal5" post="8054638" timestamp="1404444030"]

 [quote name="Costas2008" post="8049101" timestamp="1404309441"]

 [quote name="raybal5" post="8048917" timestamp="1404306508"]

 [quote name="Costas2008" post="8008889" timestamp="1403501983"]

A little disappointed here.
Lot's of answers about my flag being lower or higher than the Thai flag and if the pole is short enough or long enough.
My original question was, are you proud of your own country as to display your national flag or you have just forgotten everything living the good life in Thailand?[/quote]
 
Pride comes before the fall...and how the Greek nation has fallen!
 
Seriously though, nationalistic fervor is bullshit.  Hanging any flag so low in that soi really is slapping people in the face with it. I am happy to live in my country but I don't think I need to wave the flag about it. And for the many and varied reasons previously mentioned, I would never display my country's flag at my residence in Thailand.    
 [/quote]
 
When did it fall?
Last time I spoke to them, they assured me it's still free.
No money..........but free.
 [/quote]
 
Well Costas, while you were away a few bad things happened to the economy of Greece which has caused social hardship on a massive scale.  I am sure you have many happy memories of Greece Costas. And it will probably be always in your heart but at the moment, not a lot to be proud of I am sorry to say.
 
If I can quote some reports....
 

When the New Year kicked off in Athens, a pall of smoke hung over the city. Steep hikes in fuel prices had pushed people to burn wood to stay warm, and even discarded Christmas trees were being fed into the fires. At the same time, a series of small explosions targeted the offices of the two major parties, New Democracy and Pasok, as well as the residences of several prominent journalists

 
 
and another
 

Greece's economy has been in a mostly downward spiral since the country joined the euro in 2001. ....Despite last year's (2010) 110 billion bailout and the introduction of harsh austerity measures, the country has been unable to balance its books.

 

and for good measure
 

While workers and pensioners are being overtaxed, which has resulted in a significant reduction in consumption, and despite the severe cuts these people have suffered, driving almost half of the population to poverty, Troika- the IMF/EU bailout programme, and the government have done very little to tackle the real problem of tax evasion.

 

 

 
I love the comment by Thaddeus by the way.
 [/quote]
Raybal5, quite agree with you, and many thanks for the links provided.
But you have to understand, Greece is my country, the country I was born, the country I grew up.
And I'm very proud and love my country, whatever the situation is there.
At the moment, the only physical connection I have with Greece is that flag, flying on my front gate.
Please, allow me to retain the good memories, I don't hurt anybody.
I really hope, for the good of Greece and the good of the EU, as a whole, better days will come.[/quote]

You can do whatever floats your boat Costas. I was just discussing the topic of national pride as raised by yourself and expressing my opinion. In my country, the culture is that while official buildings and some companies fly the flag, individuals who fly the flag at their home are considered to be weird and a bit sad. l have no desire to fly a flag anywhere. I am perfectly capable of keeping my good memories of home without the need for a public display of a piece of colored cloth. Edited July 25, 2014 by raybal5

[Urloc]

In my country:

 

- I was forced to go under 8 years of endoctrination. Forced to wake up every morning to attend to listen to bs I didn't want to.

- I had to pay more than 60% of my revenue in taxes, all to be spent in corruption and useless people I don't give a fig about.

- It reached a point whenI had to leave because I am not the one who is going to support a ruined country while people there don't care about anything but their own.

 

So no, I am not proud of what my country is now. I am proud of what it was before but now is just a dump full of trash. I didn't make it dirty so I am not the one who is gonna clean it.

 

On the other hand:

 

- Thailand gave me a nice place to live.

- Thailand asked me very little in return.

 

So yes, I fly the Thai flag and keep my flag at home, privately, as a sign of hope that things change someday.

[Costas2008]

In my country:

 

- I was forced to go under 8 years of endoctrination. Forced to wake up every morning to attend to listen to bs I didn't want to.

- I had to pay more than 60% of my revenue in taxes, all to be spent in corruption and useless people I don't give a fig about.

- It reached a point whenI had to leave because I am not the one who is going to support a ruined country while people there don't care about anything but their own.

 

So no, I am not proud of what my country is now. I am proud of what it was before but now is just a dump full of trash. I didn't make it dirty so I am not the one who is gonna clean it.

 

On the other hand:

 

- Thailand gave me a nice place to live.

- Thailand asked me very little in return.

 

So yes, I fly the Thai flag and keep my flag at home, privately, as a sign of hope that things change someday.

Where do you come from Urloc?

Can't be so bad, especially reading the comments about the situation in Greece now.

But it seems we both have faith that things will change and better days are coming.

The difference is, I fly the flag but you keep it safe at home.

I wish things get better in your country so you will be proud enough to show your flag again.

[Urloc]

 

In my country:

 

- I was forced to go under 8 years of endoctrination. Forced to wake up every morning to attend to listen to bs I didn't want to.

- I had to pay more than 60% of my revenue in taxes, all to be spent in corruption and useless people I don't give a fig about.

- It reached a point whenI had to leave because I am not the one who is going to support a ruined country while people there don't care about anything but their own.

 

So no, I am not proud of what my country is now. I am proud of what it was before but now is just a dump full of trash. I didn't make it dirty so I am not the one who is gonna clean it.

 

On the other hand:

 

- Thailand gave me a nice place to live.

- Thailand asked me very little in return.

 

So yes, I fly the Thai flag and keep my flag at home, privately, as a sign of hope that things change someday.

Where do you come from Urloc?

Can't be so bad, especially reading the comments about the situation in Greece now.

But it seems we both have faith that things will change and better days are coming.

The difference is, I fly the flag but you keep it safe at home.

I wish things get better in your country so you will be proud enough to show your flag again.

 

 

Spain.

 

I am not talking about the economy, which is really screwed up but that is not the point. The thing is how the country is in that situation and why.

 

- They let the inmigrants (mostly latin americans) to go freely into the country and gave them full rights to everything.

- There was such a protectionism about them that when I wanted to ask for some help from the govt to stablish a business I was denied for being white and Spanish.

- If you fly the Spanish flag anywhere in the country you are considered a fascist. Doing it in some cities may lead you to death.

- It is not a sovereigh country anymore, it is under the law of Europe.

 

And all this has been done without spilling blood, just by convincing people it was the fair thing. They have what they deserve. So yes, I am proud of my ancestors and my roots, but not what is now.
 

[geronimo]

I don't fly the flag because I am ashamed of my country and its shady past. I'm a Brit btw!

[Thongkorn]

why is it that all the best Country's in the world have , Red White and Blue in them ,( Let it start).

[KarenBravo]

why is it that all the best Country's in the world have , Red White and Blue in them ,( Let it start).

 

Good combination of colours to see on a battle-field?