Long timers - Is Thailand better or worse than 10 years ago?

[Dee Kwa]

I got quite jaded with the place, and people after about a decade of living full time in Bangkok so three years ago I decided to switch jobs and took a 28/28 rotational contract instead. Now I spend a month out of country and a month back in Thailand, I now spend my time up North when in Thailand too. It has reignited my love for the place, and now it feels 'almost' like it did in my early days of being there.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Dee Kwa

[Pralaad]

ive been staying in pattaya for 3 weeks now monday to saturday morning then drive home till monday morning,

pattaya just in my opinion has gone down hill a bit, the women arnt what they was,

i think years ago when i was holidaying there if i can remember through my drunken eyes the women were better, there were loads of really good looking girls, i havnt seen that many over this 3 weeks,

mind you i havnt been all over the place,

might just be me not really looking,

still good food in the pig a whistle though,,

jake

How are the boys who dress as girls ? , haha

[JesseFrank]

we dont want you here anyway, go home

Because I notice the charity hasn't received much money yet.

[pigeonjake]

by what ive seen there milk have got bigger,, not that ive been looking you understand,,,,

[thailiketoo]

They put something in the German food in Naklua

[rlopes]

You're totally right. Both about treatment in Thailand and the reception you'll get when the saffron colored glasses crowd wakes up and start telling you to relax and enjoy life and smell and the roses and blah blah blah.

There's a lot of countries besides Thailand that are as nice or better. Really there are. When you go there you'll think 'why the hell did I waste so many years in a place that hated me.'

Places where you can own land in your own name. Places where you really can just show up and stay as long as you want with no hassle.

Really though, it was better ten years ago. It was cheaper, I was younger and you could do visa runs to your heart's content. I did hundreds of them.

It's no better nor worse than any place you might settle in for a decade or more. If you're bored and unhappy, don't blame it on Thailand.

"...you could do visa runs to your heart's content. I did hundreds of them."

And like most self-indulgent people, the consequences of your behavior, for yourself and others, is a total mystery.

"You're totally right. Both about treatment in Thailand and the reception you'll get when the saffron colored glasses crowd wakes up and start telling you to relax and enjoy life and smell and the roses and blah blah blah."

The ones wearing the saffron colored glasses were the naive first-time-away-from-home crowd who thought they were settling in paradise. Now that reality has sunk in they realize that if they were bored and unhappy in one place, they'll be just as bored and unhappy everywhere because the boring & unhappy follows them wherever they go.

Those of us who are reasonably happy with life in Thailand saw clearly what life here would be like and have been happy with the good & not-so-good because it was pretty much as expected. The whiners and moaners simply reached new levels in whining and moaning once the saffron colored glasses fell away and they had to face the fact it wasn't Thailand but them that was lacking.

No don't relax and enjoy life "and smell and roses" (whatever that means) because you're going to be throwing a hissy fit wherever you are and no one will miss you if you take your tantrum to greener pastures.

Suradit69, Every time I see you posting is to write a long rant to try to demeanor other TV posters. Go read a book or have a drink, whatever that suits you better.

[dotpoom]

Maybe the question should be....."Have I c"hanged over the past 10 years?...............places stay more or less the same

[Dee Kwa]

Maybe the question should be....."Have I c"hanged over the past 10 years?...............places stay more or less the same

Rubbish.

[lormakmak]

Yes indeed. I will be filling up my company BMW and going to watch the 20/20 cricket over the weekend. Whilst planning to go to take my kids to their summer camps and the such.

You claim it is so ridiculously expensive. Well quality costs, and I was paying through the nose to run two cars, have two kids in private education and privately insure everyone in Thailand. That alone took up best part of 600 to 700 k per year. Have you ever paid income taxes on a proper salary in Thailand? It isn't far off what you pay in the UK, with barely any of the associated social benefits. It wasn't about me wanting to come back, it was about for the development for my career and my childrens education it was an absolute necessity. Kids are doing great, and an infinitely better education for free currently.

As for traffic jams, I commute 18 minutes from our countryside house into town every day. At the end of the day, I did I good run. 18 years. I changed a lot obviously, but the country changed a lot too.

Why do you guys who couldn't make it in Thailand constantly brag about how good it is back in another country. You're not here anymore. Forget it. Why do you constantly come back to a Thai forum to tell everyone in Thailand how bad it is here? Why would you care enough to badmouth Thailand? You are gone let it be. This thread is about how Thailand and you blokes are trying to turn it into another UK love fest.

why do people like yourself resort to saying that people (like myself who left Thailand to better myself and my career) have to go as far to say we couldn't make it there... you are so wrong fella, I left Thailand with more money than I started with.

I feel you are a bit like the average Somchai out there who can't take criticism and you are having a loss of face cyber style by having to scrape the barrel like that.

Act your age you soppy sod and debate the issues raised or is that a bit too much to ask?

I got no problem with that at all. Good for you. But why come back to Thai Visa and badmouth Thailand? I know you have had a number of bad experiences here. Do you feel better when you tell us all about them?

Do you think it will change mine or anyone else's behavior? This is a thread about Thailand over ten years and a guy comes along and tells me how much better he is to be driving a BMW and watching cricket! For gosh sakes why?

Does it make the hurt you suffered in Thailand less if you tell everyone here about it? How long are you going to continue doing so?

In one self help group they have a tree that you pin your past problems on and then they burn the tree.

It really does not help to constantly relive your emotional and physical past problems. Get over it and move on.

I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

The only thing I find weird is the people that go there to re-invent themselves and delude themselves about their home country that they have most probably burnt all their bridges to.

I lived a great life in Thailand but when the time was right I upped sticks and moved back home to give it another go.... that is something many cannot and will not do who reside over there through fear of hard work and the unknown.

This is why many foreigners to Thailand land themselves in trouble dealing drugs, overstaying on visas or defrauding people which ever way they can.

Are you a real life Fraser Crane or something? self help groups

[thelongshoot]

You're totally right. Both about treatment in Thailand and the reception you'll get when the saffron colored glasses crowd wakes up and start telling you to relax and enjoy life and smell and the roses and blah blah blah.

There's a lot of countries besides Thailand that are as nice or better. Really there are. When you go there you'll think 'why the hell did I waste so many years in a place that hated me.'

Places where you can own land in your own name. Places where you really can just show up and stay as long as you want with no hassle.

Really though, it was better ten years ago. It was cheaper, I was younger and you could do visa runs to your heart's content. I did hundreds of them.

It's no better nor worse than any place you might settle in for a decade or more. If you're bored and unhappy, don't blame it on Thailand.

"...you could do visa runs to your heart's content. I did hundreds of them."

And like most self-indulgent people, the consequences of your behavior, for yourself and others, is a total mystery.

"You're totally right. Both about treatment in Thailand and the reception you'll get when the saffron colored glasses crowd wakes up and start telling you to relax and enjoy life and smell and the roses and blah blah blah."

The ones wearing the saffron colored glasses were the naive first-time-away-from-home crowd who thought they were settling in paradise. Now that reality has sunk in they realize that if they were bored and unhappy in one place, they'll be just as bored and unhappy everywhere because the boring & unhappy follows them wherever they go.

Those of us who are reasonably happy with life in Thailand saw clearly what life here would be like and have been happy with the good & not-so-good because it was pretty much as expected. The whiners and moaners simply reached new levels in whining and moaning once the saffron colored glasses fell away and they had to face the fact it wasn't Thailand but them that was lacking.

No don't relax and enjoy life "and smell and roses" (whatever that means) because you're going to be throwing a hissy fit wherever you are and no one will miss you if you take your tantrum to greener pastures.

Suradit69, Every time I see you posting is to write a long rant to try to demeanor other TV posters. Go read a book or have a drink, whatever that suits you better.

11 years in Thailand mate. 10 of those moderately to very happy. Are you implying that I am a whiner and a moaner because I lacked the foresight to 'see clearly' what Thailand would be like for, 11 years down the line?

Can I also just say that 'saffron colored glasses' is probably the most annoying phrase I have heard on TV for a while. And I reckon you love saying it, don't you? Any opportunity.... Anyone who is not walking around Wai'ing every man dog and bar girl with an accompanied ridiculous forward bow, and a goofy 'Look natives! I love Thailand!' grin on there chops is 'one of them moaners whose saffron colored glasses fell off'

[3NUMBAS]

guys that burnt their bridges back home and cant go back get irritated when you tell them its changed for the worst ,they just cant admit to themselves IT HAS changed for the worst ,so live in denial .

the gals constantly eyeballing phones and have no communication indicates they have become zombies all around you. sit on the subway and watch them scrolling on phones admiring photos of themselves ,yes its changed alright .the locals are more or less brain dead nowadays

[Neeranam]

I don't think much has changed in 10 years - probably just your attitude. I have been the same.

Why not get a proper 1 year visa? Surely in 11 years you knos how this works?

[3NUMBAS]

and the bar industry is on its last very shaky legs not much is left of it compared with the boom years when they were wall to wall

Perhaps a visit to Thailand would be in order. Check things out for yourself.

i can tell you for a fact that Patpong now is not a patch on its heyday in the late 80s before the night market was installed ,same with all the other good dives that are no longer around ,is on its last legs like a knackered old horse struggling to stand up

[thailiketoo]

and the bar industry is on its last very shaky legs not much is left of it compared with the boom years when they were wall to wall

Perhaps a visit to Thailand would be in order. Check things out for yourself.

i can tell you for a fact that Patpong now is not a patch on its heyday in the late 80s before the night market was installed ,same with all the other good dives that are no longer around ,is on its last legs like a knackered old horse struggling to stand up

Ya right. Pattaya and Nana look about the same to me. In 10 years I only went to Patpong once. I think it was dead 10 years ago but that's just my opinion. BTW 1980's were 30 years ago. I never liked the scams there. So I don't agree with you. One area that died a long time ago does not mean the bar industry is on shaky legs. Heck everybody is opening a bar today. Even Thai Visa.

Edited July 4, 2014 by thailiketoo

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As you get older EVERYTHING gets worse!

The girls I've been seeing in the past few years have definitely been getting better.

[thailiketoo]

As you get older EVERYTHING gets worse!

The girls I've been seeing in the past few years have definitely been getting better.

As whiskey gets older it gets better. When I was 21, I liked 20 year old whiskey and 20 year old women. Some things never change.

Edited July 4, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Berkshire]

and the bar industry is on its last very shaky legs not much is left of it compared with the boom years when they were wall to wall

Perhaps a visit to Thailand would be in order. Check things out for yourself.

i can tell you for a fact that Patpong now is not a patch on its heyday in the late 80s before the night market was installed ,same with all the other good dives that are no longer around ,is on its last legs like a knackered old horse struggling to stand up

The bar industry dying out in Thailand would be a positive in my book. But I don't see that happening any time soon, at least not in Pattaya/Phuket.

[Berkshire]

guys that burnt their bridges back home and cant go back get irritated when you tell them its changed for the worst ,they just cant admit to themselves IT HAS changed for the worst ,so live in denial .

the gals constantly eyeballing phones and have no communication indicates they have become zombies all around you. sit on the subway and watch them scrolling on phones admiring photos of themselves ,yes its changed alright .the locals are more or less brain dead nowadays

Have you been back to the west much? Most of the young folks there are pretty much glued to their smartphones. It's a worldwide phenomenon, not just in Thailand.

[lostmebike]

As you get older EVERYTHING gets worse!

The girls I've been seeing in the past few years have definitely been getting better.

Like Krathaiboy said 'everything gets worse' ... that includes your eyes!

[thailiketoo]

why do people like yourself resort to saying that people (like myself who left Thailand to better myself and my career) have to go as far to say we couldn't make it there... you are so wrong fella, I left Thailand with more money than I started with.

I feel you are a bit like the average Somchai out there who can't take criticism and you are having a loss of face cyber style by having to scrape the barrel like that.

Act your age you soppy sod and debate the issues raised or is that a bit too much to ask?

I got no problem with that at all. Good for you. But why come back to Thai Visa and badmouth Thailand? I know you have had a number of bad experiences here. Do you feel better when you tell us all about them?

Do you think it will change mine or anyone else's behavior? This is a thread about Thailand over ten years and a guy comes along and tells me how much better he is to be driving a BMW and watching cricket! For gosh sakes why?

Does it make the hurt you suffered in Thailand less if you tell everyone here about it? How long are you going to continue doing so?

In one self help group they have a tree that you pin your past problems on and then they burn the tree.

It really does not help to constantly relive your emotional and physical past problems. Get over it and move on.

I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

The only thing I find weird is the people that go there to re-invent themselves and delude themselves about their home country that they have most probably burnt all their bridges to.

I lived a great life in Thailand but when the time was right I upped sticks and moved back home to give it another go.... that is something many cannot and will not do who reside over there through fear of hard work and the unknown.

This is why many foreigners to Thailand land themselves in trouble dealing drugs, overstaying on visas or defrauding people which ever way they can.

Are you a real life Fraser Crane or something? self help groups

You wrote, "I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

It came from your two topics below.

My soon to be ex Thai wife and her secret lesbian life.....

Wife has UK ILR approved then vanishes and tells me not t...

[ALFREDO]

But who really knows, what the woman understood. Sure not "brain"

Maybe, "Did you have some rain?" lol.

That is exactly why i had to double check and confirm by saying it back to her, mind you i was pointing at the head , so could not have been the rain

Yet the response was confident and conclusive, no brain, hot outside, which i translate into I do not have a brain because its hot outside.

Which i could accept if stood outside, but she has been sitting inside under the aircon for around 30 mins

"i was pointing at the head" - the rain falls on the head. Thai logic

"no brain, hot outside," - when its outside so hot, than there is usually, NO rain, Thai logic.

I think it was the =rain= she answered to.

[rgs2001uk]

why do people like yourself resort to saying that people (like myself who left Thailand to better myself and my career) have to go as far to say we couldn't make it there... you are so wrong fella, I left Thailand with more money than I started with.

I feel you are a bit like the average Somchai out there who can't take criticism and you are having a loss of face cyber style by having to scrape the barrel like that.

Act your age you soppy sod and debate the issues raised or is that a bit too much to ask?

I got no problem with that at all. Good for you. But why come back to Thai Visa and badmouth Thailand? I know you have had a number of bad experiences here. Do you feel better when you tell us all about them?

Do you think it will change mine or anyone else's behavior? This is a thread about Thailand over ten years and a guy comes along and tells me how much better he is to be driving a BMW and watching cricket! For gosh sakes why?

Does it make the hurt you suffered in Thailand less if you tell everyone here about it? How long are you going to continue doing so?

In one self help group they have a tree that you pin your past problems on and then they burn the tree.

It really does not help to constantly relive your emotional and physical past problems. Get over it and move on.

I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

The only thing I find weird is the people that go there to re-invent themselves and delude themselves about their home country that they have most probably burnt all their bridges to.

I lived a great life in Thailand but when the time was right I upped sticks and moved back home to give it another go.... that is something many cannot and will not do who reside over there through fear of hard work and the unknown.

This is why many foreigners to Thailand land themselves in trouble dealing drugs, overstaying on visas or defrauding people which ever way they can.

Are you a real life Fraser Crane or something? self help groups

You wrote, "I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

It came from your two topics below.

My soon to be ex Thai wife and her secret lesbian life.....

Wife has UK ILR approved then vanishes and tells me not t...

Brilliant bit of detective work there.

Well done, everything you write on here will come back and bite your ass at some time.

Nice one, best laugh I have had in ages.

[bkkden]

Most of the posters here are living in tourism areas and hang out with other foreigners. I live in a suburban residential area, almost never see or speak to any foreigners, only Thais and in Thai and the people are lovely to me now just as they were 22 years ago when I first came here.

My perspective is things are better and getting more so year by year as more Thais are moving into the middle class, getting better educations, health care etc. I'm so happy to see people doing so well and enjoying their lives. Go to Thai only places and watch the families and the children, it's a positive energy!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JAFO]

Most of the posters here are living in tourism areas and hang out with other foreigners. I live in a suburban residential area, almost never see or speak to any foreigners, only Thais and in Thai and the people are lovely to me now just as they were 22 years ago when I first came here.

My perspective is things are better and getting more so year by year as more Thais are moving into the middle class, getting better educations, health care etc. I'm so happy to see people doing so well and enjoying their lives. Go to Thai only places and watch the families and the children, it's a positive energy!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

BKKDen,

You are absolutely spot on. From what I have assessed a great majority of the miserable people on this site live in heavy tourist locations and all they see are drunk foreigners, robberies, scammers, congestion, overpriced everything, prostitution, and poorly attempted made western food.

I, like you, live in a very nice area with my wife in a pleasant Mooban. Our neighbors are polite and as you noted are middle class types working like everybody else in the world does that are trying to move forward and enjoy a better life. Over my last 9 years I like what I see in general. One way I avoid angst is staying out of politics and religion.

There is no doubt that many foreigners have come here and been duped. They thought it was all perfect(rose colored glasses). They had young girls or woman chasing them, cheap beer(Its actually not btw but that's a different subject altogether) and nice weather. Slowly after they either sobered up, woke up or ran out of money they realized they are really no better off than they were back home. Unfortunately many went all in and now because they are trapped they lash out. Being trapped is an awful feeling which is why we read about so many jumpers off roof tops in Pattaya, Phuket and BKK.

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

[NeverSure]

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

"...my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S."

The topic is about better or worse over 10 years. Your statement today of course isn't true. For it to be true, you'd need to have $1,000 month buy as much in Thailand as would 6 - 8,000 in the US. There are SO many reasons that's not true. For one thing, there is so much difference in the quality of what you could buy in Thailand as opposed to the US.

Why don't you buy THIS house just outside of Atlanta Georgia for less than 2.5 mil bht, and own the land? Full blown Western kitchen, 2 Western baths, 1st world underground utilities with safe drinking water and uncensored blazing fast internet. Garage, safe water, sanitary sewer...

And you get almost 4 rai that's all yours.

Almost every manufactured consumer item will be much cheaper as will quality food.

Thailand used to be a lot cheaper IF you settled for Thai standards in everything. I don't think that's true today. Not at all.

[MJP]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

[Thai at Heart]

why do people like yourself resort to saying that people (like myself who left Thailand to better myself and my career) have to go as far to say we couldn't make it there... you are so wrong fella, I left Thailand with more money than I started with.

I feel you are a bit like the average Somchai out there who can't take criticism and you are having a loss of face cyber style by having to scrape the barrel like that.

Act your age you soppy sod and debate the issues raised or is that a bit too much to ask?

I got no problem with that at all. Good for you. But why come back to Thai Visa and badmouth Thailand? I know you have had a number of bad experiences here. Do you feel better when you tell us all about them?

Do you think it will change mine or anyone else's behavior? This is a thread about Thailand over ten years and a guy comes along and tells me how much better he is to be driving a BMW and watching cricket! For gosh sakes why?

Does it make the hurt you suffered in Thailand less if you tell everyone here about it? How long are you going to continue doing so?

In one self help group they have a tree that you pin your past problems on and then they burn the tree.

It really does not help to constantly relive your emotional and physical past problems. Get over it and move on.

I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

The only thing I find weird is the people that go there to re-invent themselves and delude themselves about their home country that they have most probably burnt all their bridges to.

I lived a great life in Thailand but when the time was right I upped sticks and moved back home to give it another go.... that is something many cannot and will not do who reside over there through fear of hard work and the unknown.

This is why many foreigners to Thailand land themselves in trouble dealing drugs, overstaying on visas or defrauding people which ever way they can.

Are you a real life Fraser Crane or something? self help groups

You wrote, "I never really suffered at the hands of Thailand, I really do not know where you get that from?

It came from your two topics below.

My soon to be ex Thai wife and her secret lesbian life.....

Wife has UK ILR approved then vanishes and tells me not t...

As being told that I had to be extremely rich to survive in the west. That isn't true. You have to be employable, but there is a world outside Thailand .

[NeverSure]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

Edited July 4, 2014 by NeverSure

[fish fingers]

The one thing that has really changed is the reasons for foreigners to settle in Thailand - i.e. there is a different breed of 'farang' here now - young career professionals, not lost boy types.

[MJP]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

Right, exactly right.

I love being a hippy crossbred with a hillbilly see. I like to amble about the village wearing raggy clothes on my old puffy chuggy old Honda Click, see some friendly folks. I take the geriatric D-Max into town to the garden centre, fill the truck bed and rear seat with pots and plants and come away £50 poorer.

I like pottering around the dirt roads, going down the farm, bit of low cost creative DIY, doing a bit of photog'ing and taking the kids shopping (actually I hate that bit to be honest).

To live this idealized, highly materialistic existence that's often lauded as the optimum on this very site is, frankly, dull as dishwater and thankfully well beyond my meager fiscal position in this World.

Quite why folk go to live in Thailand just to live the same way they do in the West is beyond me. For me it's about going from a stressful and fraught job (existence) in Blighty to a simple, bucolic and down right idle time under my banana tree.

I can live poor. I love it. But the kids won't do it, so keeping me on the hamster wheel.