FATCA Compliance Update - Thailand will be compliant

[Pib]

"If you don't have over $50K equivalent in baht (which is around Bt1.6M) in an account I expect the FATCA quotes in post #15 apply, which means the bank may not need or want to contact you."

I don't know about other banks but it seems like Bangkok Bank wants to get the info from all American depositors who happen to come into the branch. That seems like a smart idea. For example, you might open an account with 1,000 baht one day and then have a large deposit sent in soon afterwards.

Like the quotes mention, "...Unless the Reporting [FATCA Partner] Financial Institution elects otherwise..." gives the bank a choice if/when they collect info.

I expect for new accounts and when previous accounts go over the $50K equivalent they would definitely be asking for some additional info. Now how each Thai bank decides to handle previous and new accounts for under and over $50K I expect we'll all just have to wait and see...and I expect we will "not" see a standardized approach which means we'll most likely see posts describing different approaches....like I got a letter in the mail asking for this info, when going to the bank to do a transaction the bank teller also asked me to complete this W-9 form, etc...etc. But the good thing so far is I haven't see any posts that had solid details they couldn't open a new account or their account is being closed "because they were American." Seems like other than some posts where some U.S. posters have said the bank asked them for additional info, it's pretty much ops-normal. Time will tell.

[Misty]

But the good thing so far is I haven't see any posts that had solid details they couldn't open a new account or their account is being closed "because they were American." Seems like other than some posts where some U.S. posters have said the bank asked them for additional info, it's pretty much ops-normal. Time will tell.

Agreed on Thai bank accounts - so far we've heard of no trouble for Americans either opening new accounts or keeping existing ones.

There do seem to be real problems for Americans with Thai asset management accounts. There we're seen/heard of accounts of US citizens/green card holders being closed. This can create problems for those who've contributed to RMFs/LTFs.

[ChickenWing]

I opened a new savings account at Bangkok Bank Silom this morning. I had to fill out a form declaring my US citizenship and Residency. Then I was also required to fill out a W-9 form. They opened the account with a smile.

[Jingthing]

Here is the form in question:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf

[JimGant]

I opened a new savings account at Bangkok Bank Silom this morning. I had to fill out a form declaring my US citizenship and Residency. Then I was also required to fill out a W-9 form. They opened the account with a smile.

Out of curiosity, how did they know you were a US citizen? Was this verbally? When they saw your US passport? Or after you filled out an application form ("Do you have US citizenship or residence status? yes or no")?

Just curious as to how they'll identify dual citizens, like my wife, whose application, using her Thai passport and ID, would have absolutely no US indicia (place of birth, US address, phone number, etc) to indicate US person status. Only if they asked would they determine this -- so I'm guessing this is what they do(?).

[ChickenWing]

I opened a new savings account at Bangkok Bank Silom this morning. I had to fill out a form declaring my US citizenship and Residency. Then I was also required to fill out a W-9 form. They opened the account with a smile.

Out of curiosity, how did they know you were a US citizen? Was this verbally? When they saw your US passport? Or after you filled out an application form ("Do you have US citizenship or residence status? yes or no")?

Just curious as to how they'll identify dual citizens, like my wife, whose application, using her Thai passport and ID, would have absolutely no US indicia (place of birth, US address, phone number, etc) to indicate US person status. Only if they asked would they determine this -- so I'm guessing this is what they do(?).

Well, they initially guessed... When I went to get the number from the little number giving machine, there was a man there assisting people to push the correct button. He asked me what I would like to do, and I said "Open a new savings account". Then he pushed the button, gave me the number ticket, and then handed me the questionnaire ("Do you have US citizenship or residence status? yes or no"). Perhaps he was just guessing because of my accent? I did not fill it out at this time, I just sat down and waited for my number to be called.

When my number was called, I went to the nice lady's desk, and told her I wanted to open a savings account, and she immediately asked for my passport. I would imagine that what ever passport you gave them, that would be how they determine your citizenship. She had me fill out a number of normal banking forms, and the Citizenship questionnaire was not filled out until about the middle of the stack.

But in hindsight, after writing this, perhaps they give the form to all foreigners (or everyone?) and force them to make the declaration that they are or are not US citizens. The questionnaire/declaration form is a Bangkok Bank form, not a US govt form. The W-9 is the only US govt form I had to fill out. There was no question of my citizenship before I got the form, and my passport was in my pocket. But I am a white guy with an American accent, so who knows?

Perhaps your wife can go there and push the button, and see if she gets a form? Like I said, they give it to you well before you ever get to the account opening desk.

[JimGant]

But in hindsight, after writing this, perhaps they give the form to all foreigners (or everyone?) and force them to make the declaration that they are or are not US citizens.

I would imagine 'everyone,' due to the dual citizenship angle. For many, like my wife, who already pay US taxes, and file FBARs, this would not be a problem. However, it seems easy enough, for those dual citizens who don't want their US side to be identified, to just say "no," and proceed to open their accounts with their non-US passport (or Thai ID, as the case may be).

[Pib]

One of the first things you do in opening a new account is hand the bank rep your identification--Thai ID card or passport. If a passport you must be a foreigner....and of course the passport says what version of foreigner you are (i.e., American, etc.) Oh, you are American...I have a few extra forms for you to fill out courtesy of Uncle Sam.

[ChickenWing]

One of the first things you do in opening a new account is hand the bank rep your identification--Thai ID card or passport. If a passport you must be a foreigner....and of course the passport says what version of foreigner you are (i.e., American, etc.) Oh, you are American...I have a few extra forms for you to fill out courtesy of Uncle Sam.

But I got the form for declaring or denying my US citizenship BEFORE they saw my passport or asked what my nationality was. All they knew was that I wanted to open a savings account. They gave it to me before I even got to the desk for opening a new account, 15 minutes before my passport ever made an appearance. I'm thinking they are questioning everyone, or at least people who appear to be foreign and opening a new account.

[Pib]

One of the first things you do in opening a new account is hand the bank rep your identification--Thai ID card or passport. If a passport you must be a foreigner....and of course the passport says what version of foreigner you are (i.e., American, etc.) Oh, you are American...I have a few extra forms for you to fill out courtesy of Uncle Sam.

But I got the form for declaring or denying my US citizenship BEFORE they saw my passport or asked what my nationality was. All they knew was that I wanted to open a savings account. They gave it to me before I even got to the desk for opening a new account, 15 minutes before my passport ever made an appearance. I'm thinking they are questioning everyone, or at least people who appear to be foreign and opening a new account.

Assuming we are talking the branch on the first floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd versus another branch on Silom Rd, since that branch does a LOT of business with farangs and have a receptionist at the queue machine, maybe that's just the process that branch has chosen....that is, just hand all farang-looking folks that one form if getting a queue ticket for a new account.. It's a very good branch as I have 3 accounts there...open two of them just last year. But most branches don't have a receptionist manning the queue machine so it would be the new accounts person or teller who makes first contact with you, hand out some forms, review your ID/passport, etc. Good info regarding the additional forms...tells me Bangkok Bank don't have any issue in opening new accounts for Americans...just a couple more FATCA related forms now. And I expect Bangkok Bank already has the database retrieval setup to review and report those accounts belonging to Americans.

[coconut]

Assuming a Joint Savings Account with one U S Citizen and one Thai Citizen with no connection to the USA, would only 50% of the total account amount be used to meet the FATCA Reporting Requirements?

[Pib]

Assuming a Joint Savings Account with one U S Citizen and one Thai Citizen with no connection to the USA, would only 50% of the total account amount be used to meet the FATCA Reporting Requirements?

I doubt it, but I stand ready to be correct.

Even when doing the yearly FBAR reporting if one spouse/associated person must complete a separate FBAR report due to a combination of accounts in that spouse's name only and the rest being joint accounts, with the joint accounts also being reported by the other spouses FBAR report, the spouse must report the joint account amounts again...basically both spouses end up reporting the joint accounts in some cases. The FBAR is not necessarily being used to "calculate" tax liability (your federal return handles that) but just to report your foreign accounts so the authorities can possibly use that data for various reasons such tax evasion, money laundering, other sneaky stuff, etc.

The FATCA reporting by the banks/financial institutions is basically doing the same thing although different trigger levels amounts are being used and the banks/financial organizations are doing the reporting versus you. However, if the banks do the data retrieval just keying in on the nationality of the first person listed on a joint account and that person is not a U.S. citizen then maybe nothing will get reported...but then again maybe the bank looks at all nationalities on an account and "any" being a U.S. citizen ends up triggering the reporting.

Also, what about those cases where more than two people are joint owners...say 3, 4 or more with one being a U.S. citizen. Heck, I'm assuming a joint account in Thailand can have more than 2 owners...but it's bad to make assumptions regarding Thai banking rules/regulations based on how it works in your home country.

Here's a quote from one of the FATCA IGA agreements which implies to me if a U.S. person is one of several joint owners who are non-U.S. persons then it gets reported.

The term “U.S. Reportable Account” means a Financial Account maintained by a Reporting [FATCA Partner] Financial Institution and held by one or more Specified U.S. Persons or by a Non-U.S. Entity with one or more Controlling Persons that is a Specified U.S. Person. Notwithstanding the foregoing, an account shall not be treated as a U.S. Reportable Account if such account is not identified as a U.S. Reportable Account after application of the due diligence procedures in Annex I.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Pib

[coconut]

Pib

Thanks for the reply.

Trying to interpret the Due Diligence Procedures in Annex 1 can give one a severe headache.

[akentryan]

Just went through the process at a bank where I wanted to open an additional savings account. If a new account, you must sign a W-9 which gives name, address and SS number.Nothing required for existing accounts. Like someone else mentioned I also list the interest earned on Thai bank accounts on my annual 1040 filing. List the interest as if you had received a 1099 and claim the credit for actual Thai taxes paid. At the end of the year I list the dates interest was received and the amounts and then go to a historic exchange rate site to convert to dollars on the actual dates of receipt. I also report all bank accounts and let IRS sort out the over $10,000 accounts. They will need to add thousands of new agents to track all this added info.

[Pib]

They will need to add thousands of new agents to track all this added info.

Naw, the IRS computers will do most of the additional work...but they probably will hire a few more programmers to write retrievals to evaluate/compare the incoming FATCA data against other data like federal tax returns. Like hey, this guy had a fixed account at Thai bank XYZ for around $25K/Bt800K...that's bound to have earned him some nice bit of interest...let's see if he reported that interest on his federal tax return.

But of course the U.S. Treasury/IRS folks could have already been doing such a comparison between FBAR reports submitted by the individual and their federal returns, assuming the individual had been submitting their FBAR report. I expect the new reporting may bring a surprise to a few people who do not submit FBARs but the foreign bank FATCA reporting shows the individual does indeed have a foreign account(s) and should have been submitting a FBAR and declaring the interest earned on their federal return....hopefully not too many people will end up in this situation.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Pib

[Naam]

Is it OK if I don't report anything and keep all my interest for myself? I don't even file irs tax. Could I be in trouble?

I never filed anything in my life , my god, if they catch me, I m good for jail time.

What you think guys considering I make really good money with my worldwide investments.

most probably death penalty

[Pib]

Is it OK if I don't report anything and keep all my interest for myself? I don't even file irs tax. Could I be in trouble?

I never filed anything in my life , my god, if they catch me, I m good for jail time.

What you think guys considering I make really good money with my worldwide investments.

Just claim insanity in your defense...be sure to show your above post as proof.

[Pib]

Is it OK if I don't report anything and keep all my interest for myself? I don't even file irs tax. Could I be in trouble?

I never filed anything in my life , my god, if they catch me, I m good for jail time.

What you think guys considering I make really good money with my worldwide investments.

most probably death penalty

Yeap, it's like the ol' saying of "death and taxes" are two things you can't avoid. Now the IRS prefers to say "taxes and death" are two things you can't avoid...by putting the "taxes" word before the word death it implies taxes will be collected before you are allowed to die.

[Pib]

Sounds like bitcoinman is practicing his final statement for the tax judge.

[Pib]

I m not a USA person so stick your USA tax where I think.

Then your earlier post was even stranger in that you included several statements such as below which at a minimum implied you are subject to U.S. taxes/a U.S. person. Since your are not U.S. person and not subject to U.S. taxes, FATCA, or FBAR seems strange you are even posting in this thread unless taxes in general/in any country gets your adrenal pumping beyond control.

"It s going hard to tax me as there is no law in USA about taking on income.

Show me the law because as far as I know the USA law, there is nothing in the constitution and nothing in the USA law allowing them to tax me (and us) on income. A salary is not an income, it s an exchange of services. So guys, I m a real man or you guys are a bunch of pussies with no balls and you are breaking the law."

[JimGant]

I Just relinquished my USA passport,

Thank you for that. And which lucky country will now have the honor of your presence? (Suggest, however, that you forgo becoming an English grammar teacher.)

(quote from the unedited email version of his post)

Edited July 27, 2014 by JimGant

[thaiman]

It seems like the fatca compliant banks will present any foreigner with a form to prove either us person or non-us person upon opening a new account despite whatever passport you hold. And, if you decide to fill out the form(proving us person or non-us person) and proceed in opening a new account you agree for the bank to disclose information to tax authorities and the IRS.

[Naam]

This is what happen to me, I had to sign a paper stating I'm not a USA person, green card, us citizen, and didn't spend more than 183 days in the USA in the last year. (all citizen have to sign this paper before opening an account) OK, u check boxes and if one USA box is checked, bank will tell you to go home with your money and they will not do any business with you . no, they are not buy stocks for you. At the minimum, just open a saving account. But forget about investing.

And they are damn right to do that. Why should they bother with the irs, it s not the bank job to hire tax specialists to file the tax for you. What will happen if the bank make one little mistake? , audit? Fine? Heavy fine? Jail time?

F.... them! They signed fatca just to keep some Usa dollar in the bank, but any USA person will be asked to leave.

Now that I m free of this USA shit, (please, congratulate me) I can even spend 6 months a year in USA under a tourist visa . Run some business on line, get bitcoin by example , and not report anything to this mafia of irs or anyone else .... And It s all legal because I set the rule, my rules,... not their rules.

I can even open bank accounts in USA or in thailand and not report anything to anyone. Now USA want me back(oups we did a mistake, please could you come back?) ? F.... Them. I keep my money and my tax money will go to Edward Snowden.

When you become free, you never come back!

Now that I m free of this USA shit, (please, congratulate me) I can even spend 6 months a year in USA under a tourist visa .

yes you can but you might be liable to pay income tax if the aggregated time exceeds a certain number of days during a certain period.

read and learn:

You will be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes if you meet the substantial presence test for the calendar year. To meet this test, you must be physically present in the United States on at least:

1. 31 days during the current year, and
2. 183 days during the 3-year period that includes the current year and the 2 years immediately before that, counting:
   • All the days you were present in the current year, and
   • 1/3 of the days you were present in the first year before the current year, and
   • 1/6 of the days you were present in the second year before the current year.
   • http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Substantial-Presence-Test

[chubby]

there is always Ron Paul 2016 ! and the NRA to sponser him or his spawn Rand.

so, are some of you US ex-pats , meeting the 183 day rule, and paying no Federal Taxes ?

PS: or why not the republicans , who support the wonderful job creators , would go to a flat tax, and get rid of ........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCyTQEANlmM

Edited August 3, 2014 by chubby

[Lunchbob]

I wonder f one could look at who owns a bank and relate that to compliance with fat cat.

For example, Bangkok bank gets mentioned a lot and they happen to have offices in London and New York.