Need an advice or ideas regarding an elderly lady.

[beachproperty]

 

 

I can't believe the posters advising a 70 year old American woman to stay in Thailand, and end her days here eating strange food with complete strangers in a strange land speaking a strange language she will never learn a word of.
 
Neversure's post was spot on. 
 
First help her back to California. Then try to get at least some of that $20k back. The first far outweighs the second, though.

 
What a good laugh you gave me....
 
As I'm almost 70 myself and living in Thailand (also from Calif having lived in the Sacramento area)...I for one (as in my opinion) have NO PROBLEM living in a strange land, where they speak a strange language, and as for food....the markets here carry the same food as western markets and I'm sure she knows how to cook! In FACT I relish the fact that I am living here in Thailand enjoying a MUCH higher quality of life for less than half the money I would have to spend in the US
 
My reading of the OP is she has NO ONE in the US. She DOES, on the other hand,  have a daughter-in-law and possibly grandchildren here in Thailand.
 
PLUS the cost of living is WAY cheaper here in Thailand. Since she has nothing to go back to in the US....why go back? To become a bag lady? to become another statistic of the elderly being taken advantage of?  Live in some community home for a few thousand dollars a month, only to be abused by the staff? 
 
Never said it would be easy. But neither will be going back to the US ....she sold everything ....as in, she has nothing there! we don't know all the facts! And the decisions her to make obviously, I was just posing another possibility as laughable it may be to some of you.
 
Some one posted the idea of staying here a few months to adjust to the grief of the loss of her son. GREAT idea. Also would give her time to make her own decision of what to do....Go or Stay.
 
You'd be surprised how resilient and independent some of us "old folk" are.

 

OK, so where do you live?, we'll have her on the next bus to visit you and you two can talk about how she can adjust to the loss of Medicare and grief counseling groups, (Sorry. it just doesn't work that way with new arrivals, esp. women)

NancyL.

 

 

So ....Nancy L....What's your advice?

 

Put her on a plane back to the good Old  US of A immediately ...with no where to stay and no one to look after her!

 

I didn't say I had the answers.....but she's here NOW and has a daughter in law here! ....so the question is ..."What does she do NOW?"....and in my mind ...with a view as to what she's going to do in the future I have presented another thing to consider.

 

I'm no expert on either Women or grief......you got that right! I've done alright though in LIFE though, trying to consider ALL possibilities and then making my decisions what to do. That's all I was trying to do here ....give another point of view for consideration....

 

I await your point of view as many seem to think highly of you....but you sarcastic response to me does little to help her ....wouldn't you agree?

[NancyL]

I don't want to appear heartless, but Lanna Care Net could help this woman if she truly wants to stay in Thailand and meets the requirements for a retirement visa. That's not evident from what's been presented on the post so far. Edited July 6, 2014 by NancyL

[NancyL]

I would suggest that someone who cares about her visit the American Consulate or Embassy (whichever is nearest) as soon as possible and talk about getting her on the next plane back to the U.S. All this talk about her staying here in Thailand without any family is nonsense. Isn't this obvious?

Nancy

[beachproperty]

I would suggest that someone who cares about her visit the American Consulate or Embassy (whichever is nearest) as soon as possible and talk about getting her on the next plane back to the U.S. All this talk about her staying here in Thailand without any family is nonsense. Isn't this oblivious?

Nancy

 

 

Well ...Nancy ....you've finally hit the nail on the head. Where is the "someone who cares?" other than a stranger ...OP

 

The OP says ....she has NO ONE who cares about her in the US. That she has NO ONE. She only had her son ...who has passed.

 

Next closet to a relative would be the Daughter-in-law (Son's Thai wife)

 

Soooo....NO it isn't obvious that she should be put on a plane immediately to the USA. She is in grief mode (or so I would assume), she also has dementia (small wonder she was able to travel half way around the world without getting lost or missing a flight...) AND you think it best to send her back "on the next plane"

 

WOW....great plan ....send her back to the USA. Problem solved! ...Think NOT! 

 

Just curious ....under your plan ..."next plane back to US". Where would she go? where would she stay with? Who would help her?  Love to hear your answer!

Edited July 6, 2014 by beachproperty

[CharlieH]

Its a difficult call for sure. I just cant help thinking how she must be feeling right now.
She must be terrified, confused and feeling extremely vulnerable right now.

I dont have any bright ideas, but I think it does warrant a conversation with the Embassy to determine a course of action in her best interest, possibly explore the possibility of extended family members in the US.

[ClutchClark]

I can't believe the posters advising a 70 year old American woman to stay in Thailand, and end her days here eating strange food with complete strangers in a strange land speaking a strange language she will never learn a word of.
 
Neversure's post was spot on. 
 
First help her back to California. Then try to get at least some of that $20k back. The first far outweighs the second, though.

 
What a good laugh you gave me....
 
As I'm almost 70 myself and living in Thailand (also from Calif having lived in the Sacramento area)...I for one (as in my opinion) have NO PROBLEM living in a strange land, where they speak a strange language, and as for food....the markets here carry the same food as western markets and I'm sure she knows how to cook! In FACT I relish the fact that I am living here in Thailand enjoying a MUCH higher quality of life for less than half the money I would have to spend in the US
 
My reading of the OP is she has NO ONE in the US. She DOES, on the other hand,  have a daughter-in-law and possibly grandchildren here in Thailand.
 
PLUS the cost of living is WAY cheaper here in Thailand. Since she has nothing to go back to in the US....why go back? To become a bag lady? to become another statistic of the elderly being taken advantage of?  Live in some community home for a few thousand dollars a month, only to be abused by the staff? 
 
Never said it would be easy. But neither will be going back to the US ....she sold everything ....as in, she has nothing there! we don't know all the facts! And the decisions her to make obviously, I was just posing another possibility as laughable it may be to some of you.
 
Some one posted the idea of staying here a few months to adjust to the grief of the loss of her son. GREAT idea. Also would give her time to make her own decision of what to do....Go or Stay.
 
You'd be surprised how resilient and independent some of us "old folk" are.

OK, so where do you live?, we'll have her on the next bus to visit you and you two can talk about how she can adjust to the loss of Medicare and grief counseling groups, (Sorry. it just doesn't work that way with new arrivals, esp. women)

NancyL.

NancyL,
I wondered how many posts it would take before someone displayed the typical TV rudeness.

Congratulations. You won.

[ClutchClark]

A 70-year old woman with mild dementia might have other conditions that require medication.
Look at her pill bottles--contact the prescribing doctor back home.
Maybe she is already enrolled in a State program and does not recall.

[cmsally]

As this woman has dementia with all this stress on top of it; it is highly likely she cannot remember any details about friends or family in the US. Maybe the embassy can do a name search to check who are her closest relations, last place of residence etc in order to check more details.

[Mrjlh]

How long has she been in Thailand now? Wouldn't a trip to Immigration to get an extension be wise about now. Or possible border run?  Got to act fast I would think.

[NancyL]

I'm sorry if I was less-than-helpful yesterday evening. If this poor lady were in the Chiang Mai area there is much that Lanna Care Net could do. For starters, she'd probably be lodged at Dok Kaew Assisted Living Center by now if the sitatuion with her daughter-in-law didn't seem appropriate. http://www.mckeanhosp.com/796642/dok-kaew-gardens-comprehensive-retirement-living

There she'd be safe and cared for while the Consulate worked to sort out her situation. They put together repatriations of people in situations similar to this several times a month -- people who need to "go back" but don't have a place to go.

It seems this woman is in or near Bangkok, and there has been some good advice on this thread -- contact the Embassy. They could advise of a safe place to lodge her while they work with Health and Human Services to find a placement for her in California. Some of the options have also been mentioned in this thread.


This thread has touched on some interesting points -- is this woman taking the medications that she is suppose to be taking? If not it could be contributing to her confusion. Is she eating regularly and being properly cared for now? And yes, it's possible that her visa situation needs attention, too. It's uncertain just how closely involved the OP is with the lady.

We have helped people like the OP by advising them over the phone. People who are trying to help those in need in other parts of Thailand, outside of Chiang Mai, but don't know where to turn or what to do. I suggest the OP take a look at our website and perhaps call www.LannaCareNet.org Edited July 7, 2014 by NancyL

[beachproperty]

Hey Bannafarang,

 

Just wondering what the outcome was going to the US embassy? Were they able to help her out? Hope for the best for her!

[craigt3365]

My friends mother just went into an assisted living home.  She couldn't afford it, so they took all her assets and current income streams.  The government makes up the rest.

 

I have another friend in California where this happened to his father several years ago.  You lose everything, but at least you are taken care of.

 

Where is this lady right now?  What city/village?

[Sheryl]

She only just arrived in Thailand, so somehow she had a place where she lived and managed to get by in California.

 

First step is to figure out where that was and how it worked, who helped her there etc.

 

If she is as demented as described she did not manage to get here on her own.

 

Certainly there are programs, agencies etc that can help her back in California but the issue is how to get here there and who would initially meet and house her.

[beachproperty]

.

 

If she is as demented as described she did not manage to get here on her own.

 

 

 

As in most posts made here on TV  not enough information is given. 

 

One of the questions is .....does she really have dementia OR Was the 20 hour flight in coach coupled with her sons death enough stress that she is shell shocked and just needs time to deal with the situation.

 

OP gave a layman's diagnosis of dementia based on the fact that he had to repeat questions a few times....maybe ...just maybe the immediate grief she is dealing with is causing her to "space out".

 

Well ...unless OP comes back and responds to let us know what happened ....we will never know.

[chubby]

I work w/ the elderly here in the states,  this seems mostly correct, though I think the carehome keeps any extra funds (social security etc), call APS and have them flag it as an emergent situation, though, someone has to get her back to california.  if she is oriented to person and place,  maybe someone from APS or a policeman can meet her at the airport  or so 

 

http://www.cdss.ca.gov/agedblinddisabled/contact.htm

 

 

with her name you may be able to find some friend of the family  via  some online service, so little is secret anymore.. 

 

"abuse" also includes  "self-neglect" 

Sacramento County  Department of Health & 
Human Services 
P.O. Box 269131
Sacramento, CA 95826 24 Hour Abuse Hotline: 
(916) 874-9377 

(916) 874-9662 fax

 

 

She's probably still officially a resident of California, between homes. If she is truly poor, the state will put her on Medicaid health care and that would pay for a private nursing home. The state gets a discount in that they mandate the most they will pay,

 

While in the nursing home, the state would require her to give them all of her income (obviously low) and they would let her keep only a small stipend. Not much is needed in a nursing home.

 

If she has some money, she would probably be required to pay for the nursing home until she has less than $2,000 and then the state money would kick in.

 

Less expensive is assisted living where the person gets meals and a room, but isn't bed ridden as in a nursing home. She can probably do that and the state would decide, and pay.

 

Even less expensive is a foster home. People get licensed and take in as many as maybe 4-6 people to live in their homes. They make their living cooking and cleaning and so on for the people. The state would also pay for that and decide which level of care was appropriate.

 

If she can show up in California and contact Senior Services they will help her. It's too bad and hard to imagine that she has absolutely no one. Many churches and the Salvation Army and the Union Gospel Missions have temporary shelter, meals and advice and assistance for people like that. She does need to be mentally able to think and access it, or find someone who will.

 

She could walk into virtually any larger Christian church, go into the office and tell her plight, and get solid help and guidance.

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by chubby

[chubby]

assisted living options vary, a lot of them require a big buy in, and then are very expensive 

 

a care home in a private residence, here is $3-5000  / month 

 

she may be in a  "donut" situation, too much income for medicaid, too little to buy into a private care home. 

 

up in chiang mai  there is  :

a nice christian  long term care place 

 

PS HTN (BP)  has nothing to do with movement, unless she is having a stroke,  > 180  mm hg  and she need BP meds right away  IMHO 

Krisb is right ....just google assisted living facilities in Thailand and BINGO....

 

Here's one place that popped up

http://www.theprivilegeliving.com/AssistedLiving.html    ($325 to $825 month depending on level of care)

 

Sure there are plenty more.

 

Still think the best option though would be to live with the daughter in law if she thinks the situation (location and home) are up to her standards. 

 

Again ....wish her the best of luck!

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by chubby

[Patsycat]

I feel for this poor lady.  But agree, she should go back to the States, that is her home.  For her to have gone through the trauma of going to live with her son and for him to die would be stressful to anyone, what ever age.

 

She is confused, traumatised etc.  I hope the OP and his friends can help her.

 

She may never have met her Daughter in Law, or only a few times.  All this is new and frightening - anyone would be confused.

 

I wish her luck. 

[Patsycat]

Sorry.

 

I feel that i need to bump this thread.

 

I can't help this lady, but i hope the OP has some news for people who are thinking of her.

[bananafarang]

Hello everyone.

 

Thanks for all the advice and offer of support. I have been out of town few days and unable to respond. 

 

It seems that we (My friend and I) need to approach this matter in short and long term and I would appreciate any information regarding questions presented below. 

 

Short Term: Extend her visa stay at least 3 to 6 month and find a place to stay for her. 

 

Short term:

 

We need to extend her visa. Since the crackdown on border run, I see only two options.

 

- Fly over to Malaysia and apply for 3 month tourist visa. This creates a problem of traveling which she is not capable of doing alone. 

 

- Apply for retirement extension. She does not have enough funds of 800k  or 65k a month requirement. But I believe she can get 3 month Non visa when she applies for the extension. This would buy her time.  Any info about this would be appreciated. Another option is to get income statement from Embassy. I don't think she need proof of income for this. Just sworn statement. Hopefully immigration will accept the certificate of income without the proof. 

 

- Find a place to stay while she is in Thailand. She doesn't not want to stay with her daughter in law for reasons I am not clear. I have looked into some sites that posters have offered. I would like to find a place in Chiang Mai. Any info will be appreciated.  This most likely be a short term stay of 2 to 6 month. 

 

Long term:

 

- Get a flight ticket back to States. My friend is trying to locate the fund ($10k) she wired to her son. Her daughter in law is not aware of the transfer. Locating the fund would be crucial for her coming expense. 

 

- Find a person or agency who can receive her at the airport and help her transition to permanent home. This would require finding a short stay and evaluating her medical and financial status to choose the right option for her. This presents the greatest challenge and any help/info would be highly appreciated.  My friend called one of her friend in California but she refused to get involved. I have also called her brother in Korea and he has his own problem to deal with (his wife is in intensive care with brain hemorrhage). I have called president of Korean Community Association of Sacramento for help (Elderly lady is Korean American). He will present this to his community for support and help. I am to call him again tonight. 

 

Today, I will be meeting my friend and the lady. I will try to get more detailed personal information, specially her medical condition.  So far I have very limited information about her.Only that she was married to Vietnam veteran and her combined income from her deceased husband's pension and her SSA is $1800. 

 

 

Thank you again for your support. 

 

[bananafarang]

I forgot the mention that she is Chiang Rai. 

[ClutchClark]

I obviously don't know any of the specifics; however, attempting to find out a bit more about her preference to not rely on the daughter-in-law does not make sense on the surface.

Perhaps you can explore whether her thinking is rational on this topic since her life here for the next several months would be much easier if she could rely on a local Thai woman.

I will be the first to say I do not know the specific circumstances.

One last question: Did the son have no farang friends? Has no one from his "group" stepped up to help their mates mom?

[bananafarang]

I obviously don't know any of the specifics; however, attempting to find out a bit more about her preference to not rely on the daughter-in-law does not make sense on the surface.

Perhaps you can explore whether her thinking is rational on this topic since her life here for the next several months would be much easier if she could rely on a local Thai woman.

I will be the first to say I do not know the specific circumstances.

One last question: Did the son have no farang friends? Has no one from his "group" stepped up to help their mates mom?

 

I agree the best scenario is for her to stay with her daughter in law for a while. It is also hard to believe that she does not have any family and friends that could help her. Also it seems her son made no connection with his other side of his heritage here. I am not sure of other farangs. So far nobody has "stepped up" to help. I have been here couple years and I have never met him or heard of him. 

[craigt3365]

She has a brother in Korea?  As a widow of a vet, she has access to some medical services while overseas.  Not much here in Thailand, but better options exist in other Asian countries.  Not sure about Korea.

 

Definitely her best bet is to stay with the daughter in law till things get sorted.  As far as the visa, all the US requires right now is you sign an affidavit stating you make "X".  It's notarized.  But it's all that's required to fulfill the income requirement.

 

There are also numerous visa companies that help people like this sort through the paperwork.  You'll pay 15-20k Baht or more, but they'll handle everything and typically have contacts in the immigration offices to help.  A big deal if you are not sure what to do...or need extra help.  Worth a look.  Here in Pattaya, there's a foreigner who helps people like this and he's in the immigration office every day.  He provides a wonderful service, laying out the options, telling you what paperwork is required, and helping get everything done. 

[NancyL]

One option would be to bring her to Dok Kaew Gardens, the assisted living facility that is part of McKean Rehabilitation Center in Chiang Mai. If she were to become a resident, they could arrange for a medical visa extension and between their social workers and the people in American Citizen Services at the U.S. Consulate they could locate family and friends in the U.S., find a suitable placement for her in the U.S. and arrange for a repatriation flight, with wheelchair service and someone meeting her in Sacramento.

It is possible, too, for the woman to stay long-term at Dok Kaew Gardens. It would appear that she has sufficient income, but the reasons for doing so are murky -- it doesn't seem likely that the daughter-in-law would want to visit often. Are there grandchildren that the woman would want to see? Medical care/hospitalization could be an issue. Dok Kaew is assisted living -- not a hospital. The woman would have to pay for medical care if she became ill, but in the U.S. she would have Medicare.

The OP has already called Lanna Care Net and this information has been passed along.

[craigt3365]

Again, as a widow of an American veteran, she can get medical expenses here reimbursed.  You have to pay up front, and it takes months to get reimbursed, but they cover up to 70% or so of most procedures.  Not sure about meds.

[Trembly]

She's probably still officially a resident of California, between homes. If she is truly poor, the state will put her on Medicaid health care and that would pay for a private nursing home. The state gets a discount in that they mandate the most they will pay,
 
While in the nursing home, the state would require her to give them all of her income (obviously low) and they would let her keep only a small stipend. Not much is needed in a nursing home.
 
If she has some money, she would probably be required to pay for the nursing home until she has less than $2,000 and then the state money would kick in.
 
Less expensive is assisted living where the person gets meals and a room, but isn't bed ridden as in a nursing home. She can probably do that and the state would decide, and pay.
 
Even less expensive is a foster home. People get licensed and take in as many as maybe 4-6 people to live in their homes. They make their living cooking and cleaning and so on for the people. The state would also pay for that and decide which level of care was appropriate.
 
If she can show up in California and contact Senior Services they will help her. It's too bad and hard to imagine that she has absolutely no one. Many churches and the Salvation Army and the Union Gospel Missions have temporary shelter, meals and advice and assistance for people like that. She does need to be mentally able to think and access it, or find someone who will.
 
She could walk into virtually any larger Christian church, go into the office and tell her plight, and get solid help and guidance.

The last paragraph is an excellent suggestion.

I'm not familiar with churches in Thailand but I've heard of one in Pattaya giving some very good help to a friend of mine.

The only name I can think of is father Joe in Khlong Toey, but he is sure to have excellent connections.

[chubby]

If the embassy won't help, I really think you should try DHS/APS  California, they are the right people to sort it out, I'm doubting a lady with dementia, should settle in a foreign country, despite the better expenses for board and care,  likely her disorientation and longevity  would suffer , depending too, the rest of her overall health......

[bananafarang]

Again, as a widow of an American veteran, she can get medical expenses here reimbursed.  You have to pay up front, and it takes months to get reimbursed, but they cover up to 70% or so of most procedures.  Not sure about meds.

 

This sounds like something she can definitely utilize in the future. Do you have any more information? How can she find out the eligibility and what is the process of application?

[craigt3365]

I went through this with my mother.  It's super easy if you are in the US, super hard if you are here in Thailand.  Many sites need to be modified/setup, including these main ones:

 

Setup a profile in mypay.dfas.mil

Enroll in DEERS: http://www.tricare.mil/DEERS

If you are overseas, enroll here: www.tricare-overseas.com

 

I'd bet she has tricare for life.  That's the biggie.  She has to be enrolled in this.

 

Lots of great info here, but will take time to get through it:

http://www.va.gov/

 

On the social security side, if she is starting down the road with dementia, she'll need a representative payee setup for social security.  Not hard if you are in the US, but could be tough here.  She'll also need to have somebody setup with power of attorney for her on the military side.  Same with all her banks and financial institutions.  Not easy, not cheap, to do from here.

 

With both social security and her military retirement payments, she'll get COEs yearly (certificate of existence).  If she misses just one, for just a short amount of time, her payments stop.  Really hard to get them going again with SS.

 

If you want, start a PM with me.  I might include a few others in it and then we can discuss details that shouldn't be posted in public.

 

You are doing a wonderful thing.  You should be very proud of yourself for taking this on.

==============================

After reading the above, I'd say it's really important to get her back to the US.  VA has facilities in place to help with all this.  If I am not mistaken, they can even act as guardians for her.

 

If she has a brother, it makes all this a bunch easier.   Not as much of a hassle to get things setup if you are a relative.  Very, very difficult otherwise.

[choochoo]

I can't believe the posters advising a 70 year old American woman to stay in Thailand, and end her days here eating strange food with complete strangers in a strange land speaking a strange language she will never learn a word of.

 

Neversure's post was spot on. 

 

First help her back to California. Then try to get at least some of that $20k back. The first far outweighs the second, though.

In addition.    What kind of people think a thai wants to take in a dementiated senoir citizen they have no relationship with.   Im sure they would take the $1800 but what will that get the lady?

 

 

This is screaming for usa embassy help.

 

 

 

PS any update on the kid who had 2 take care of incapacitated parents.   

Edited July 10, 2014 by choochoo