I don't have a degree but I believe I can teach...

[brucetefl]

Lets examine this advice for just a moment.

So you decide to go back home and get qualified as a teacher before coming to Thailand to teach.

I have no idea what country you are from but I am going to use the US as the example.

It will take you a minimum of four years to get your B. Ed.

Even a state university, all expenses included, is about $25,000 per year.

The economy is not good but lets say you get a job and manage to pay for 1/2 your education and living expenses. You end your four years of study being "only" $50,000 in debt. Your student loan payments would probably take up to nearly 1/2 your salary.

And then you might spend a year or two teaching and decide its really not for you.

Can anyone in their right mind really say this is GOOD advice?

Next lets look at the validity of a Thai degree in TESOL.

It is a degree and from a university listed in the UN list of accredited universities worldwide.

You will finish your degree with not only your degree but several years of actual teaching experience. This is certainly valuable as well. If you have done a good job you might also have some nice letters of recommendation. And you well be debt free.

I will agree that a degree from a Thai university is not as valuable as one from a US/UK university but, all things considered, you would have to be a fool to take the advice to return home to get your B. ED before teaching in Thailand.

In my opinion the OP should get qualified in his/her own country and then come to Thailand to teach. The country, it's culture and people will still be here whenever he/she meets the minimum qualifications. Coming here now and enrolling in a BA course that will be of questionable use outside of Thailand is very short sighted. Not to mention that he/she would be working on an Education visa, which to the best of my knowledge is illegal. According to two posts on this thread the possibility of a "waiver" exists, but I wouldn't recommend putting oneself in what is undeniably a vulnerable position if the immigration or work permit officers come calling.

Edited July 5, 2014 by brucetefl

[MarkCyr]

CELTA, TEFL and those kinds of certifications help you in your day-to-day teaching by giving you more tricks up your sleeve to draw from, but you'd still need a degree for most recognized institutions. But there are always language schools that basically just want any western looking person they can get to keep teaching, and for those guys, they won't care if you have a degree, a CELTA or anything. A pulse and white skin is the usual requirement.

Another option is to start your own school. A lot of work and a bit risky, but at least in Thailand, as long as you employ a certain number of Thais, you'd be able to get a visa and operate a business (or at least that's what I was told by a friend who runs a business in Bangkok).

[WonnabeBiker]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

No flaming intended. But since I don't know any of you guys nor have I observed anyone, I couldn't possibly judge others. Besides, you could argue that I wouldn't be competent...

But I would like to share a different point of view regarding the poor level of English:

It's the schools! The administrators, the Thai teachers!

Does your school have a curriculum? Care to ask for it? If not, why not?

Expensive sound systems - but faulty ac power outlets, substandard plugs or a lack of audio cables costing about 60 Baht retail. And don't get me started on the abysmal wifi at many schools.

Thai schools would remain poorly run, even if they would replace all foreign teachers with genuine accredited teachers and NES. Rant over.

[brucetefl]

All schools in Thailand must have a Lincensee and a Head Teacher. Lincensee must be Thai with a degree. Head Teacher must be Thai and have a degree inthe subject that will be taught at the school.

CELTA, TEFL and those kinds of certifications help you in your day-to-day teaching by giving you more tricks up your sleeve to draw from, but you'd still need a degree for most recognized institutions. But there are always language schools that basically just want any western looking person they can get to keep teaching, and for those guys, they won't care if you have a degree, a CELTA or anything. A pulse and white skin is the usual requirement.

Another option is to start your own school. A lot of work and a bit risky, but at least in Thailand, as long as you employ a certain number of Thais, you'd be able to get a visa and operate a business (or at least that's what I was told by a friend who runs a business in Bangkok).

[brewsterbudgen]

In my opinion the OP should get qualified in his/her own country and then come to Thailand to teach. The country, it's culture and people will still be here whenever he/she meets the minimum qualifications. Coming here now and enrolling in a BA course that will be of questionable use outside of Thailand is very short sighted. Not to mention that he/she would be working on an Education visa, which to the best of my knowledge is illegal. According to two posts on this thread the possibility of a "waiver" exists, but I wouldn't recommend putting oneself in what is undeniably a vulnerable position if the immigration or work permit officers come calling.

Why would a teacher qualified to teach in their home country want to teach TEFL? CELTA requires no teaching experience and is recognised worldwide as qualification to teach TEFL.

[up-country_sinclair]

In my opinion the OP should get qualified in his/her own country and then come to Thailand to teach. The country, it's culture and people will still be here whenever he/she meets the minimum qualifications. Coming here now and enrolling in a BA course that will be of questionable use outside of Thailand is very short sighted. Not to mention that he/she would be working on an Education visa, which to the best of my knowledge is illegal. According to two posts on this thread the possibility of a "waiver" exists, but I wouldn't recommend putting oneself in what is undeniably a vulnerable position if the immigration or work permit officers come calling.

Why would a teacher qualified to teach in their home country want to teach TEFL? CELTA requires no teaching experience and is recognised worldwide as qualification to teach TEFL.

When I say qualified, I am referring to the standards set by the Thai government for foreigners to teach English in Thailand. In other words, have a university degree in any subject.

[brucetefl]

But again we are talking about going into $50,000 debt just to get a degree to teach in Thailand.

If you are just getting a degree, why not get it in Thailand?

In my opinion the OP should get qualified in his/her own country and then come to Thailand to teach. The country, it's culture and people will still be here whenever he/she meets the minimum qualifications. Coming here now and enrolling in a BA course that will be of questionable use outside of Thailand is very short sighted. Not to mention that he/she would be working on an Education visa, which to the best of my knowledge is illegal. According to two posts on this thread the possibility of a "waiver" exists, but I wouldn't recommend putting oneself in what is undeniably a vulnerable position if the immigration or work permit officers come calling.

Why would a teacher qualified to teach in their home country want to teach TEFL? CELTA requires no teaching experience and is recognised worldwide as qualification to teach TEFL.

When I say qualified, I am referring to the standards set by the Thai government for foreigners to teach English in Thailand. In other words, have a university degree in any subject.

[inutil]

No matter what, youre going to suck at it for a good year at least. This has nothing to do with your qualifications. But i would take off the rosy tinted spectacles that youre going to be awesome because you have a calling. Teaching is hard work, it takes time to create a portfolio of successful activities, and you need to find what works for you. Good practice is fine, but to be honest, my TEFL, nice as it was, taught a foundational teaching approach that would have about 95% of my real world classes rolling their eyes. Its good in a pinch if you know nothing else, but to be genuinely accomplished at this you need a little bit more than a positive attitude: You also need (including but not restricted to) charm, compassion, charisma, understanding, intelligence, diligence, patience, knowledge, competence, professionalism and technique. Modern teaching is in many ways closer to the demands of child development than it is imparting information. You have to genuinely LOVE talking to your students and be willing to nurture and embrace (or maybe just guide) their whacky ideas. You also need to find the age group that suits you. It often amazes me that people think you can transfer the skills of P1-6 to M4-6 and vice versa. Or that ANYONE can teach kindy. "its just singing and dancing for thirty minutes!"

You also need to find what group size you prefer. Some people prefer smaller classes or 1 on 1s, some prefer the chaos, bedlam, noise, and a little bit of mischief (me) from 30 or so kids in a public school. Teaching isnt that straightforward. You have the first thing you need, but of course its only the first thing. Im no way in hell going to tell you you cant do it. Of course you can, but dont be too disappointed if you dont find yourself in your element right away. Lower those lofty expectations that youre going to go in with a brilliantly organised lesson plan with attentive keen students ready to do that activity that you think takes twenty minutes but in actual fact takes three (Or that Q and A section you had organised for five minutes from your "amazing" powerpoint you worked all night on, actually involves no interest and no hands up to ask all about your life). Theres no worse feeling than realising that the activity you just spent a day prepping materials for, isnt working. A good teacher at that point does something else and then in the break time tries to figure out how to improve it. And those improvements come from years of trial and error and experience in the classroom working other activities.

Oh and none of this even touches on appropriate language, speed, and delivery. You will be fooled every day that your students are following you. They wont be. Youll be talking too fast and using too much unnecessary language. Like a fool, when you ask them if they 'get it?' or 'understand?' youll think that they actually mean yes when they say yes (or worse that they mean yes when they dont explicitly say no). But you are wrong. The yes, as every good teacher eventually learns means 'stop talking please, get on with it, its nearly lunch time'.

So many things that you have to genuinely experience to understand.

And none of it deals with classroom management or discipline. Easily the worst thing that every new teacher plonked in front of a class of kids who dont hate you, but dont know you and want to see what youre about, (and more than happy to find out through careful scientific testing of your blind/rage spots - kids are healthily curious). Wanna be their friend? Wanna be their prison guard? Wanna be their mum and dad? Wanna just be their teacher? Ha! it all comes with consequences. Its an art this thing as much as it is a profession. Have at it though, its honestly wonderful and the best job youll do.

[brucetefl]

So to attain all these skills go back and get a degree in Biology! LOL

Diane Larson Freeman said, and I paraphrase, We don't know all that much about how to train teachers, but we know that they learn most when they're teaching.

No matter what, youre going to suck at it for a good year at least. This has nothing to do with your qualifications. But i would take off the rosy tinted spectacles that youre going to be awesome because you have a calling. Teaching is hard work, it takes time to create a portfolio of successful activities, and you need to find what works for you. Good practice is fine, but to be honest, my TEFL, nice as it was, taught a foundational teaching approach that would have about 95% of my real world classes rolling their eyes. Its good in a pinch if you know nothing else, but to be genuinely accomplished at this you need a little bit more than a positive attitude: You also need (including but not restricted to) charm, compassion, charisma, understanding, intelligence, diligence, patience, knowledge, competence, professionalism and technique. Modern teaching is in many ways closer to the demands of child development than it is imparting information. You have to genuinely LOVE talking to your students and be willing to nurture and embrace (or maybe just guide) their whacky ideas. You also need to find the age group that suits you. It often amazes me that people think you can transfer the skills of P1-6 to M4-6 and vice versa. Or that ANYONE can teach kindy. "its just singing and dancing for thirty minutes!"

You also need to find what group size you prefer. Some people prefer smaller classes or 1 on 1s, some prefer the chaos, bedlam, noise, and a little bit of mischief (me) from 30 or so kids in a public school. Teaching isnt that straightforward. You have the first thing you need, but of course its only the first thing. Im no way in hell going to tell you you cant do it. Of course you can, but dont be too disappointed if you dont find yourself in your element right away. Lower those lofty expectations that youre going to go in with a brilliantly organised lesson plan with attentive keen students ready to do that activity that you think takes twenty minutes but in actual fact takes three (Or that Q and A section you had organised for five minutes from your "amazing" powerpoint you worked all night on, actually involves no interest and no hands up to ask all about your life). Theres no worse feeling than realising that the activity you just spent a day prepping materials for, isnt working. A good teacher at that point does something else and then in the break time tries to figure out how to improve it. And those improvements come from years of trial and error and experience in the classroom working other activities.

Oh and none of this even touches on appropriate language, speed, and delivery. You will be fooled every day that your students are following you. They wont be. Youll be talking too fast and using too much unnecessary language. Like a fool, when you ask them if they 'get it?' or 'understand?' youll think that they actually mean yes when they say yes (or worse that they mean yes when they dont explicitly say no). But you are wrong. The yes, as every good teacher eventually learns means 'stop talking please, get on with it, its nearly lunch time'.

So many things that you have to genuinely experience to understand.

And none of it deals with classroom management or discipline. Easily the worst thing that every new teacher plonked in front of a class of kids who dont hate you, but dont know you and want to see what youre about, (and more than happy to find out through careful scientific testing of your blind/rage spots - kids are healthily curious). Wanna be their friend? Wanna be their prison guard? Wanna be their mum and dad? Wanna just be their teacher? Ha! it all comes with consequences. Its an art this thing as much as it is a profession. Have at it though, its honestly wonderful and the best job youll do.

[up-country_sinclair]

But again we are talking about going into $50,000 debt just to get a degree to teach in Thailand.

If you are just getting a degree, why not get it in Thailand?

You keep posting this $50,000 figure as if it's true, when it's not.

Why shouldn't a foreigner get a degree in Thailand? Because if the OP eventually wants to get an ESL job in a country outside of Thailand (or continue his/her education in their home country), a degree from Thailand will put him at the bottom of the pile of applicants.

Edited July 5, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[up-country_sinclair]

OP,

This link provides a list of eleven universities that offer in-state tuition of approximately $5,000. The University of Wyoming is $4,400 for tuition and fees.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/slideshows/11-public-schools-with-the-lowest-in-state-tuition

Try to think of what would be best for your future.

Thailand will be here when you're done--and you'll have a degree that will not likely relegate you to the bottom of the stack.

[brucetefl]

Since we are selecting facts that suit our needs, Penn State University in-state tuition is over $19,000 per year. Bu that is highest in the nation.

But, of course, people do not JUST pay tuition. They pay for books, other fees, and living expenses.

Here is a link to IN STATE estimated costs at University of Michigan, again a state school, not a private one:

http://www.finaid.umich.edu/TopNav/AboutUMFinancialAid/CostofAttendance.aspx

Here is University of Oregon

http://financialaid.uoregon.edu/cost_of_attendance

And Cal State Fulleton

http://www.fullerton.edu/financialaid/appinfo/cost.htm

And Stanford... threw this one in just for sticker shock

http://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/budget/

University of Oklahoma, a relative bargain at $18,450 last year IN STATE students. That is, if you are interested at all in living in Oklahoma and have residency.

So what do we see? According to the universities themselves, the cost of attending one year of undergraduate studies are right about $25,000. These prices WILL go up, every year.

[brucetefl]

OP,

This link provides a list of eleven universities that offer in-state tuition of approximately $5,000. The University of Wyoming is $4,400 for tuition and fees.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/slideshows/11-public-schools-with-the-lowest-in-state-tuition

Try to think of what would be best for your future.

Thailand will be here when you're done--and you'll have a degree that will not likely relegate you to the bottom of the stack.

You are talking IN STATE tuition and tuition ONLY.

According to the Univrsity of Wyoming, the total costs for studying there for one year is $18,481.50.

http://www.uwyo.edu/admissions/scholarships/cost-of-attendance.html

And that is ONLY if you are a resident.

Non residents are $30,670.50

Check the out of state costs. It takes about 2 years to gain state residency to get in state tuition. And tuition costs are JUST tuition, not books and living expenses.

The AVERAGE for in state is about $25,000. Thats not getting into private (and far more expensive) education.

Edited July 5, 2014 by brucetefl

[inutil]

ETA: i seem to have interrupted a bit of storm

On some other various random points:

1. Degree versus non degree.

I like the point that a degree genuinely shows a desire to learn and improve. I dont fully agree with it since its person by person and for many people of a certain age, degrees might have simply been beyond their academic skills at age 14 when they got lumped into CSEs instead of O levels (for example). Howver there possibly is enough correlation to suggest that if you dont have a degree, you possibly do have a wider range of 'higher' interests if only due to the people you met in halls turning you on to those interests. Sorry fi that comes across as conceited. Its derived a great deal from personal experience and finding out i liked a whole load of stuff id never really been exposed to prior. Of course, none of this helps you as a teacher, but it does help you when looking for aspirational examples. Thats a nice thing i guess. Then again, if you have less of an ivory tower perspective, you might be more inclined to bring in relevant interests that perhaps your students would find a little more relateable and engaging than your understanding of language games and family resemblances. The only real question is whether someone with a degree is MORE likely to even search for those references, and honestly, the Jury is out on that one.

Lesson planning is a techne, it can be learned and taught. Organisational and time management skills come just as easily from deadlines in the real world as they do from turning in papers. And responsibility, creativity and diligence aren't qualities that the ivory tower has a particular stranglehold on. A monkey with a typewriter could get a 2:2 at uni so long as they read any introduction guide to their topic and have the energy to vomit it out into microsoft word.

2, Cna you get a job without a degree in Thailand?

I havent been there since the coup. I dont know how life has changed. But in my abortive four moths of playing with the thai system i can tell you categorically that even with a degree and every document theyd need to process my waiver (philosophy, not education) as well as a very strong desire to get this all sorted, i was continually road blocked by Mai Pen Rai. No one seemed in any hurry to sort it out despite my twice monthly border hops and emails begging them to get on the case. 'The schools hadnt started yet', 'the principal wasnt there', 'we cant send someone to the school to get it done', 'we just need another signature', and on and on. I ended up working there illegally very much against my will

In another anecdote, i was offered not one, but three different jobs directly from schools during the whole bidding process agencies go through in the holidays purely on the basis of my face. They knew nothing about me, nothing about my skills as a teacher, nothing about my visa status nor my potential for at least legality. They needed a teacher, i fit the profile. So yes, you can get a job. And yes, the oily wheels will go to work for you. But as every fule kno... if you work under the counter, you better have savings in place for a quick escape when your employer decides to shaft you at the end of the contract. Most times youll be fine, but not everyone is a nice friendly person. Plenty of mercenary scoundrels out there ready to take advantage of any opportunity to shaft you when theyve got what they want from you. Keep that always in mind.

3. On the subject of NES versus Non-native-English-Speaker.

Again, both have unintended consequences and are of course qualified massively by the person. But this idea that a native english speaker is better seems arbitrary. I will give one example of one girl on my TEFL course who astonished me (she simply confirmed a belief id long held by the way, she didnt make me change my mind). This girl would kick every single person on this message boards ass about any question pertaining to grammar. She knows EVERYTHING about English grammar. And part of the reason she knows this, is that she comes from Russia, and her teacher was a hard nosed disciplinarian who would tolerate no mistakes. I watched her teach her lessons and they were excellent. She got a deserved A for her efforts. I got a B (despite my years of teaching - i blame the 70 plus students scuppering my love of group work and my continual attempt to try and show its effectiveness - also, i kinda suck at grammar).

She had calm, poise, and genuine authority over her subject. She has a bit of an accent, but she's clear and eloquent. Above all, she completely understands the pitch, rhythm and language one must use when teaching a class entirely in a second language. She used only the words she needed, she never brought in unnecessary language (we all do it when we fumble for explanations), and kept an iron like discipline over her material. She was a little dry in places, but can i remind you that unlike me, these were her first ever classes as a teacher. She will be an INCREDIBLE English teacher. Many of us coming from Western student teaching methods have learned some bad habits. We negotiate too much at times, we look for consensus a little more often, and we believe that student centric often means letting the students take control of their own learning (which leads to a little bit of a collapse in authority and boundaries). We bring baggage that can and does affect the impact we have on our students' education. On the flip, we understand intuitively the nuance, feel and rhythm of the language, but not all of us have strategies and experience AS a second language learner we can bring to our students. How do you revise vocabulary effectively? What steps do you need to make when writing a story or class paper? For many of us, its second nature, and this leads to many (accidental) assumptions about our students' skills, abilities and references. Add in that many of us, high school educated from around 1989 and onwards, tend to be a bit more touchy-feely and 'what do you think?' empowering student centric teachers, and you have a few reasons why maybe this isnt quite as clear cut as some might think.

In Japan the reason they dont bring in a non-native speaker is because they have plenty of Japanese non-native speakers who can teach and who came through exactly that type of top down grammar translation system. They dont want or need any more. Teachers are trained to a high standard with continual professional development. furthermore, they can speak the native language on top of this. The question might reasonably argued if Thailand has the same kind of quality from its own teacher training? So there is a market and justification for bringing those genuinely high level and competent fluent English as a second language speakers into Thai classrooms.

I should say, im not stepping on toes or calling anyone out, just suggesting that there are complexities and qualifiers that need to also be considered on these issues.

Edited July 5, 2014 by inutil

[brucetefl]

Inutil, doesn't Japan also suffer from very low English levels/test results? Few people in Japan seem to be able to speak any English at all.

[up-country_sinclair]

^ Something happened with the quote function. I've since edited my post and it should be clear now.

And when you get a chance, I'm still interested in the "UN list of accredited universities" you mentioned. I really had no idea that the United Nations compiled or published such a list, so I look forward to learning more about it.

[inutil]

The reason they often give for poor results are as follows:

1. Top down grammar translation method. Students learn from genuine MASTERS in English grammar who cant speak a lick of English. English is in many ways Latin However, since the advent of ALTs in the classroom, this has changed considerably. Still, until the university entrance examinations have an English speaking component, teachers at high school will continue teaching to the test, and that test is very much about reading, writing and listening with an incredibly heavy emphasis on rules and structures of grammar. For even native speakers, theyre somewhat technical.

2. Japanese people like tests. They like official papers that directly show attainment. Take anything from swimming to skiing to English and Math and you'll find there is an institution handing out a structured set of awards for the various steps Japanese people will be making on that ladder. They LOVE tests because they show exactly where they are on the path to mastery. Never let it be mentioned that perhaps mastery could contain more utilitarian means. So long as you lock your knees in right as the instructor showed you, and get down your mogulbahn in good time without a fall, youre a level 2 skier! (whatever the hell that means?)

3. And the most important of all. English is a hobby. It crosses all sections of Japanese society. They arent studying it for a genuine purpose (unlike maybe cram school kids trying to get into their university or to increase their employment prospects). So they go to private language classes, gossip with their friends, enjoy some time chatting with a foreigner and have a few anecdotes to maybe perhaps brag a little about at the next PTA meeting or the like. Its primarily a status thing in Japan. Everyone has their individual reasons for learning english of course, but this was the number one reason when it was explained to me why japan does so poorly on Tesol tables: For Japanese people, everyone takes the test because they like tests and they like to show application and skill. And the skill is in the award over the actual functional usage of the language. Thus you have people who take the test for no other reason than enjoyment, thus lowering the average score a LOT compared to other countries where its often taken for purely utilitarian means by people who genuinely require great grades for some reason or another. Its just a hobby for many people to do on a wet thursday every week.

Its an interesting perspective.

4. You can also add in that Japanese people are rather shy and dislike making mistakes for the absurd cultural reason that their mistake is a burden to you. There really is something lovely about Japanese people if im honest. Im almost nostalgic again to live there. You arent even talking about mangling the language. Youre talking about tiny TECHNICAL (potential) 'mistakes' (they havent even made yet) where they might possibly use the 'wrong' intonation or stress. sumimasen! sumimasen! It leads to a sort of paralysis in getting the words out. If they cant say it exactly right despite genuinely having both the knowledge, understanding and language, theyll immediately revert to Japanese and tell you how english is difficult and... and... um... ano... eeeto... gommenasaii!!!

5. And this one that baffles all English teachers in Japanese Public school: Good morning! How are you? (says the teacher at the start of every english lesson 4 times a week for about 8 years of their educated lives). "Im fine thank you, and you?" comes the chorus. Every lesson, four times a week without fail.

Ask any one of those students hows things? hows it going? you okay? or even just how are you? outside of the structure of a classroom and theyll immediately ask their mate, 'whats the teacher saying?' Its mind blowing. Its a classroom subject for many of them with no real application outside of the context of a lesson. Its like math in a lot of ways.

Edited July 5, 2014 by inutil

[lostinisaan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

[jacky54]

In my experience very few of the English teachers here, at least in my area, have a degree and they are teaching legally with Work Permit etc. I think schools are so desperate for native English speakers that they will take almost anyone.

That's right they are taking people who are not only unqualified and often poor teachers, but people who are not even interested in teaching anyway and who just use it as a means to stay. Not all like this by any means but far too many. Having looked at the English workbooks for 10 year olds here I was quite surprised at how good they were. Kid up the road brought it round for help, unfortunately the falang 'teacher' had told her things that were basic mistakes and the child was confused- how can the teacher be wrong was here response, well that was one who should not be employed here.

[rajyindee]

If having a degree in engineering makes you a good teacher, by the same logic, it follows that having a degree in education makes you a good engineer.

[surenp]

Well, am new here. but I do wish you success. I am sure, you will find a way. I myself, taught in India, for 13 long years (was born in India but I speak a relatively good British accent. Right now, I am preparing for a TEFL course but am not sure if I shall start now or after I am in Thailand. If I can find a job as a teacher without a bachelors, I shall be happy. I am also looking for other employment areas such as logistics (airfreight). I am planning to move to Thailand in the next few months.

Suren

[Scott]

A large number of off-topic posts have been removed along with replies.

Please stay on-topic.

[Scott]

I have hired and supervised teachers for a number of years. Good or bad teachers come from all walks, occupations and educational backgrounds, but here are a few things I have found:

1. People with a non-education degree in anything generally do better than people without a degree.

2. People with an education degree generally are the best. They can usually teach any level and do it reasonably well.

3. People with a degree and TEFL do very, very well and are comparable to those with an education degree.

4. People with no degree and a TEFL are generally OK, but they require more guidance and assistance in teaching.

5. People with no degree or TEFL and experience are a bit of a crap shoot -- some good, some bad.

6. People with no degree, no TEFL and no experience may become a good teacher, but they need a lot of watching and guidance.

[barry553]

Yea, for the most part... The whole English teaching system in Thailand is garbage.... The way they approach the whole thing is just dumb. I guess thats why they are last, or near last in English proficiency in Asia, and probably always will be.

Another reason is the culture here. Not all but the majority of Thai people do not like to engage their brains which is necessary for retaining another language and being able to use it practically. They have short attention spans and are lazy. Thai people in general are like sheep and follow the herd, everyone else is like this and so they see nothing wrong with it and thus they always take the easy option. Of course there are many very bright Thai kids and adults and I've met quite a few but these are the exceptions. Its very frustrating for me to see this.

[twodreamers]

Thanks for all your responses everyone.

Positive or negative I have taken all of your comments on board and am grateful for them. While i'm not in the US, i'm in the UK which is just as, if not more expensive. Tuition fees are £9k a year and living costs are tough to meet on a full time salary, let alone as a broke student. While this is not my main motivation for considering other options, it is up there. It looks to me like Thongsook offer a cost-effective way to get a BA. I will certainly be considering it, it could be useful for someone in my position.

I will complete a TESOL in Thailand, and try to teach on the strength of it. If I can't find someone to employ me I will go to Vietnam, where i'm led to believe a degree is not as necessary.

Edited July 6, 2014 by twodreamers

[Scott]

If you wish to advertise, then you will need to become a forum sponsor. One post deleted.

[Saradoc1972]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I don't know if I am actually going to take up teaching, probably English if I do, but I'd be one of the persons you hate.

I am German with degrees in law and have successfully done some written legal assignments when studying in Belfast for a while. If I were to take up teaching I'd first do a TEFL, of course, it's the responsible thing to do.

Now, I once tried teaching someone some German doing voluntary work with the church, I didn't know where even to begin. That's obviously because I never had to learn German as such. English is different for me in that respect, my level of usage will suffice for any practical purposes, if I say so myself, and no, I don't have a German accent. I also have 6 years of Latin under my belt, which to my mind is of enormous help understanding grammar.

So what makes you think you'd be a better teacher of English just because you are a native speaker?

[thaibeachlovers]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

Conversly, having a degree in "media studies" or flower arranging is not going to make someone a good teacher, and I understand the requirement in Thailand is to have a degree in any subject, not necessarily in a teaching related subject.

I'm with the employers that prefer people that can DO a job, not those with a degree, which is pretty meaningless now anyway.

Media studies, rap etc etc .

[thaibeachlovers]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I see I posted an almost identical reply, but I hadn't seen yours when I wrote mine.

[thaibeachlovers]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

When I went to secondary school all my teachers were "professionals" but were all useless, and taught me zero.

However, I could at least read and write properly when I left school, unlike many today. Professionals .