Massive overhaul to australian disability pensions.......no more thai

[coconutbar]

No more trips to thailand on the dsp fellow australians as from 2015 your only allowed 1 month a year trip overseas .....

Edited July 4, 2014 by coconutbar

[wprime]

Does this mean they no longer consider alcohol addiction to be a valid disability?

[coconutbar]

Does this mean they no longer consider alcohol addiction to be a valid disability?

Possibly, as your alcohol addiction is likely to kill you quicker and to abbot and his henchmen thats one less ant.

[David48]

So there is no confusion ...

Budget 2014-15: Disability Support Pension – reduced portability

Description of the measure

From 1 January 2015, Disability Support Pension recipients who travel overseas can only continue to receive their payments for a maximum of four weeks overseas in any 52 week period.

Disability Support Pension recipients will have their payment cancelled if they are overseas for longer than four weeks and will need to reclaim and have their medical condition(s) and work capacity reassessed against current impairment tables.

Currently Disability Support Pension recipients can be paid for up to six weeks for each trip taken outside Australia.

Questions and answers Who will be affected by this measure?

This measure will affect Disability Support Pension recipients who travel overseas for more than four weeks in every 52 weeks on or after 1 January 2015.

When will this measure start and finish?

This measure will start on 1 January 2015 and will be ongoing.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/publications-and-resources/budget/1415/measures/disability-and-carers/65-000801

No mention of grandfathered provisions.

[zydeco]

Exodus from Thailand?

[neverdie]

The problem with the Australian welfare system is too many people get onto things like that Disability pension thingo even when theres not much wrong with them. They get a certificate saying they have <insert condition> or something and cant work then they come and live in places like Thailand at the expense of the Australian tax payer, its a joke and meanwhile thousands of people around Australia go to work with <same inserted condition>every day of the week.

Theres too many bludgers in Australia living off the public purse. And because of this I am glad they are starting to plug this loop hole.

Sadly, there are people with REAL disabilities out there and now they are caught up in this. I feel sorry for them. The other lot should be flogged with a stick for this alone.

The Australian system does not take care of the Australian Elderly or genuine disable well but rather allows too many aholes to bludge off the system. Shame, real shame.

Edited July 4, 2014 by neverdie

[h90]

yes they gotta get the cash (cost $400,000+each/year for all those asylum seeker they are going to house in cambo,) from somewhere.

so bashing/torturing the disabled and unemployed is the usual aussie cultural trick. lovely culture indeed.

Australia you're standing in it.

Yeh oz has passed its used by date in my eyes ......

These days its a meal ticket for those with a burka and a beard in a wobbly boat off the coast of sumatra .

Look at Europe and America....everywhere the same.... If you are white native working man than you have lost.....

[score keeper]

The problem with the Australian welfare system is too many people get onto things like that Disability pension thingo even when theres not much wrong with them. They get a certificate saying they have <insert condition> or something and cant work then they come and live in places like Thailand at the expense of the Australian tax payer, its a joke and meanwhile thousands of people around Australia go to work with <same inserted condition>every day of the week.

Theres too many bludgers in Australia living off the public purse. And because of this I am glad they are starting to plug this loop hole.

Sadly, there are people with REAL disabilities out there and now they are caught up in this. I feel sorry for them. The other lot should be flogged with a stick for this alone.

The Australian system does not take care of the Australian Elderly or genuine disable well but rather allows too many aholes to bludge off the system. Shame, real shame.

such a wonderful place that they have to stop ppl from leaving

[robblok]

The problem with the Australian welfare system is too many people get onto things like that Disability pension thingo even when theres not much wrong with them. They get a certificate saying they have <insert condition> or something and cant work then they come and live in places like Thailand at the expense of the Australian tax payer, its a joke and meanwhile thousands of people around Australia go to work with <same inserted condition>every day of the week.

Theres too many bludgers in Australia living off the public purse. And because of this I am glad they are starting to plug this loop hole.

Sadly, there are people with REAL disabilities out there and now they are caught up in this. I feel sorry for them. The other lot should be flogged with a stick for this alone.

The Australian system does not take care of the Australian Elderly or genuine disable well but rather allows too many aholes to bludge off the system. Shame, real shame.

Its the same everywhere the good always suffer because of abuse of bad.

However I don't really see this as a strange rule that you can only have 4 weeks of holiday. Seems quite normal compared to normal people Why would they be allowed to live outside Oz spend the money there and get money send over all the time.

I don't know of many countries where they can do this.

[neverdie]

The problem with the Australian welfare system is too many people get onto things like that Disability pension thingo even when theres not much wrong with them. They get a certificate saying they have <insert condition> or something and cant work then they come and live in places like Thailand at the expense of the Australian tax payer, its a joke and meanwhile thousands of people around Australia go to work with <same inserted condition>every day of the week.

Theres too many bludgers in Australia living off the public purse. And because of this I am glad they are starting to plug this loop hole.

Sadly, there are people with REAL disabilities out there and now they are caught up in this. I feel sorry for them. The other lot should be flogged with a stick for this alone.

The Australian system does not take care of the Australian Elderly or genuine disable well but rather allows too many aholes to bludge off the system. Shame, real shame.

Its the same everywhere the good always suffer because of abuse of bad.

However I don't really see this as a strange rule that you can only have 4 weeks of holiday. Seems quite normal compared to normal people Why would they be allowed to live outside Oz spend the money there and get money send over all the time.

I don't know of many countries where they can do this.

When you put it that way, sounds fair.

I guess if a seriously disabled person who has no hope of ever working anywhere should want to come and reside overseas, what should the govt care, i mean someone disabled on one of these pensions would really struggle to live in Australia, due to the cost of living there. Imm not sure exactly how much money it is, probably only 2-300 dollars a week and If they can live a better life overseas then good on them, the govt would have to pay irregardless.

Anyway, enuf said, I am sure some seriously disadvantaged individual will suffer as a result of this, he or she can thank all the bludgers that ruined it for him.

[robblok]

The problem with the Australian welfare system is too many people get onto things like that Disability pension thingo even when theres not much wrong with them. They get a certificate saying they have <insert condition> or something and cant work then they come and live in places like Thailand at the expense of the Australian tax payer, its a joke and meanwhile thousands of people around Australia go to work with <same inserted condition>every day of the week.

Theres too many bludgers in Australia living off the public purse. And because of this I am glad they are starting to plug this loop hole.

Sadly, there are people with REAL disabilities out there and now they are caught up in this. I feel sorry for them. The other lot should be flogged with a stick for this alone.

The Australian system does not take care of the Australian Elderly or genuine disable well but rather allows too many aholes to bludge off the system. Shame, real shame.

Its the same everywhere the good always suffer because of abuse of bad.

However I don't really see this as a strange rule that you can only have 4 weeks of holiday. Seems quite normal compared to normal people Why would they be allowed to live outside Oz spend the money there and get money send over all the time.

I don't know of many countries where they can do this.

When you put it that way, sounds fair.

I guess if a seriously disabled person who has no hope of ever working anywhere should want to come and reside overseas, what should the govt care, i mean someone disabled on one of these pensions would really struggle to live in Australia, due to the cost of living there. Imm not sure exactly how much money it is, probably only 2-300 dollars a week and If they can live a better life overseas then good on them, the govt would have to pay irregardless.

Anyway, enuf said, I am sure some seriously disadvantaged individual will suffer as a result of this, he or she can thank all the bludgers that ruined it for him.

The real disadvantaged always suffer, the reason I am always for strict systems is because there is so much leeching from people who can work (Netherlands). Seems that every country has the same problem.

The economic sense of it is that now the money gets back in the OZ economy otherwise its lost totally. I am not saying its right and I also don't know how much they get ect just explaining it.

[samran]

I think the day of the dole bludger vanished starting in the mid 90s onwards. While not ungenerous Australia's welfare system is one of the most targeted in the world and still one of the most modest.

For me this move is simply another measure you'd expect from one of the most ideological right wing conservative governments in a generation and kicking the most needy when they are down in part and parcel of what they do.

And I'm an economist and that is saying a lot, cause I am a genuine economic conservative.

Where costs have blown out in Australia is the middle class welfare stuff. Why government needs to subsidise the private health insurance industry to the tune of 30% of premiums is beyond me. Why we need to subsidise diesel fuel for mining companies is perplexing.

Moves like this disability pension restriction is going to pay for paid maternity leave schemes for mums earning $150k.

Again, this is simply another low blow from our current government.

[Kudel]

yes they gotta get the cash (cost $400,000+each/year for all those asylum seeker they are going to house in cambo,) from somewhere.

so bashing/torturing the disabled and unemployed is the usual aussie cultural trick. lovely culture indeed.

Australia you're standing in it.

Yeh oz has passed its used by date in my eyes ......

These days its a meal ticket for those with a burka and a beard in a wobbly boat off the coast of sumatra .

Look at Europe and America....everywhere the same.... If you are white native working man than you have lost.....

They are not working men or woman but a burden on the taxpayer.Same rule in my country dissability benefits means 4 weeks per year holiday.

[ozsamurai]

The idea that one exists is in itself a feather in Australia's cap, would you prefer a mafia organized beggar culture as we have here? A refining of policy on this, is in line, to prevent fraud, as all on here know happens en mass. HOWEVER, what they then turn that 'saved capitol' into is in question.. It seems this admin is hell bent on being a reverse robin hood, they're heads will fall in the next election without fail. They will scrimp and save for 2 years, release some money in year 3 after claiming they have "fixed the economy' in a bid to be re-elected. They won't be, then Labour will come in and start spending again.... such is Australian politics in a nut shell. The needle returns to the start of the song, and we all sing along like before...and nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all...............

Oz

[Aussieroaming]

Well the government is carrying the can for businesses.

Way back in the day..maybe abt 1980 my brother had his legs crushed at work and eventually got abt 150 k from workers compensation after a 5 year fight..where I believe his solicitors earned more than him.

That 150k was eventually consumed and he applied and was granted a full disability pension due to the initial injury and subsequent illnesses. Believe me he suffered far more than 150k worth if agony as they were progressively operating and fusing bones.

He didn't ask to be partially crushed but he's dealing with the cards that were dealt.

So who should support him and the others like him..the government or the original employer or the insurer.

He lives in Asia as his pension gives him a slightly better quality of life.

In my opinion the government is better of paying him not to return, because he is no burden on the Medicare or social housing system while he is in Asia.

[Gonsalviz]

yes they gotta get the cash (cost $400,000+each/year for all those asylum seeker they are going to house in cambo,) from somewhere.

so bashing/torturing the disabled and unemployed is the usual aussie cultural trick. lovely culture indeed.

Australia you're standing in it.

Yeh oz has passed its used by date in my eyes ......

These days its a meal ticket for those with a burka and a beard in a wobbly boat off the coast of sumatra .

Look at Europe and America....everywhere the same.... If you are white native working man than you have lost.....

They are not working men or woman but a burden on the taxpayer.Same rule in my country dissability benefits means 4 weeks per year holiday.

I do not know how the system works in Oz but I do know how it works in the wonderful USof A. We pay 15% of our pay for our working life (for me began at 16) into a system that you can only draw a maximum of $2700 a month from. Not sure how Oz math works but that is a lousy return in the USof A.

Our wonderful government appropriates sums to many that do not contribute and borrow from the fund at 0% interest. Too many dummies don't know how our politicians screw us and most don't care.

[coconutbar]

Very cruel of the abbot goverment .....

For all you disabled in perth your new best thing to look forward to is a 5 dollar cafe late in murray st once a week or maybe a 10 dollar pint if your lucky .

[Douggie Style]

I think the day of the dole bludger vanished starting in the mid 90s onwards. While not ungenerous Australia's welfare system is one of the most targeted in the world and still one of the most modest.

For me this move is simply another measure you'd expect from one of the most ideological right wing conservative governments in a generation and kicking the most needy when they are down in part and parcel of what they do.

And I'm an economist and that is saying a lot, cause I am a genuine economic conservative.

Where costs have blown out in Australia is the middle class welfare stuff. Why government needs to subsidise the private health insurance industry to the tune of 30% of premiums is beyond me. Why we need to subsidise diesel fuel for mining companies is perplexing.

Moves like this disability pension restriction is going to pay for paid maternity leave schemes for mums earning $150k.

Again, this is simply another low blow from our current government.

Unfortunately the DSP has blown out, a civilized society must support the genuinely disabled, however it has become an unsustainable rort..

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/behind-the-labels-who-is-really-on-the-disability-support-pension-and-why-20140704-3bc1t.html

Data from the Department of Social Services shows as of June 2013, 821,738 people were on the DSP out of a total population of about 23.5 million.

The DSP pays $766 a fortnight for a single person.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Douggie Style

[simple1]

*Deleted post edited out*

Australia Government Aged Pension is funded each year by general revenue out of the federal government budget, Some years back superannuation was establised, at the moment employers contribute equal to 9% of employee wages, employees do receive some tax incentive to add payments. Currently it is estimated employees need to invest 20% of wages (9%, plus salary sacrifice) over 40 years on average income, to accumlate sufficient funds for reasonable quality of life at retirement, based upon current life expectancy

Edited July 5, 2014 by Scott

[David48]

Australia Government Aged Pension is funded each year by general revenue out of the federal government budget, Some years back superannuation was establised, at the moment employers contribute equal to 9% of employee wages, employees do receive some tax incentive to add payments. Currently it is estimated employees need to invest 20% of wages (9%, plus salary sacrifice) over 40 years on average income, to accumlate sufficient funds for reasonable quality of life at retirement, based upon current life expectancy

Not sure about the 20% requirement (but not doubting it either) ... that above comment was well written ...

By having an employee based future benefits scheme (superannuation), rather then a Government based Pension style, it gives a wider freedom to the recipient in the future.

This freedom may also mean that he or she is not at the whim of the government and can live in Thailand, Tanzania or Timbuktu.

[simple1]

Australia Government Aged Pension is funded each year by general revenue out of the federal government budget, Some years back superannuation was establised, at the moment employers contribute equal to 9% of employee wages, employees do receive some tax incentive to add payments. Currently it is estimated employees need to invest 20% of wages (9%, plus salary sacrifice) over 40 years on average income, to accumlate sufficient funds for reasonable quality of life at retirement, based upon current life expectancy

Not sure about the 20% requirement (but not doubting it either) ... that above comment was well written ...

By having an employee based future benefits scheme (superannuation), rather then a Government based Pension style, it gives a wider freedom to the recipient in the future.

This freedom may also mean that he or she is not at the whim of the government and can live in Thailand, Tanzania or Timbuktu.

Example article talking to the 20% requirement for some income earners below, as I said depends on salary levels.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/superannuation/aussies-face-grim-retirement-as-superannuation-savings-fall-short/story-e6frfmdi-1226966834635

Don't know if you are currently in Oz, but economic forecasts now talk to a major contraction to the economy in the coming 5 years or so, not looking good.

Looks like I will be staying in Oz for about 3 years, no problem I'm in a lovely part of Oz, Noosaville. We have our house to return to in Pattaya, but right now prefer current location.

Edited July 4, 2014 by simple1

[samran]

yes they gotta get the cash (cost $400,000+each/year for all those asylum seeker they are going to house in cambo,) from somewhere.

so bashing/torturing the disabled and unemployed is the usual aussie cultural trick. lovely culture indeed.

Australia you're standing in it.

the bogans want the government spending 400k per person on offshore processing, most of it going in glorified bribes to the PNG government and the rest to the British company Serco who are making a right balls up of it all.

So if you voted for offshore processing, suck it up fellas, you got to pay for it somehow to 'stop the boats' and Tony Abbott has made sure that the least able to afford it in Australia will be the ones who pay for it.

You vote for the idiotic policies, don't complain when they come to collect, off you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The only reason we have all these refugees is because of the previous govt. changing to a soft policy. A tougher policy will mean less boats, as has been shown, and so less ppl @ 400k.

I know there are a lot of ppl with real disabilities, but I also know there are some serious bludgers. Most guys with a disability want to work and a lot do.

The real reason we have refugees is there are some pretty shit places in the world where people are persecuted. If they don't come by boat they'll come by plane.

Don't think for a minute these guys have 'stopped the boats'. They've just stopped briefing you on them.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[samran]

I think the day of the dole bludger vanished starting in the mid 90s onwards. While not ungenerous Australia's welfare system is one of the most targeted in the world and still one of the most modest.

For me this move is simply another measure you'd expect from one of the most ideological right wing conservative governments in a generation and kicking the most needy when they are down in part and parcel of what they do.

And I'm an economist and that is saying a lot, cause I am a genuine economic conservative.

Where costs have blown out in Australia is the middle class welfare stuff. Why government needs to subsidise the private health insurance industry to the tune of 30% of premiums is beyond me. Why we need to subsidise diesel fuel for mining companies is perplexing.

Moves like this disability pension restriction is going to pay for paid maternity leave schemes for mums earning $150k.

Again, this is simply another low blow from our current government.

Unfortunately the DSP has blown out, a civilized society must support the genuinely disabled, however it has become an unsustainable rort..

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/behind-the-labels-who-is-really-on-the-disability-support-pension-and-why-20140704-3bc1t.html

Data from the Department of Social Services shows as of June 2013, 821,738 people were on the DSP out of a total population of about 23.5 million.

The DSP pays $766 a fortnight for a single person.

Nothing in that article says there is a rort going on. Indeed most of the beneficiaries are older and life has it ways of making older peoples less physically able to work.

The main point of the article is how there are a lack of job opportunities for those on the DSP and how they are less attractive to the job market once they have been out.

Nothing about rorting per se.

As for sustainability. As as I said, there are plenty of real rorts that we can cut. For instance why we subsidise the private health insurance industry 30% of ever dollar they earn so rich people get a rebate for buying runners and getting therapeutic yoga is beyond me. That is a multi billion dollar burden on the budget.

Bigger fish to fry, but this government is content to kick those who are least able to protect themselves.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[impulse]

*Deleted posts edited out*

That's why I wince every time the subject of privatizing any portion of SS comes up for discussion. That would mean turning our money over to these criminals for safe keeping.

Call them incompetent, call them lazy (I would disagree, BTW- but that's a whole 'nother topic), regardless of what you think about government workers, none of them get bigger bonuses for cheating their "customers", or for denying the benefits they're legally entitled to. Sharp contrast from the private banksters and insurance companies.

Back to topic, my heart goes out to recipients who suffer from changes to the societal contracts (written or implied) they worked under their entire lives. Seems like the fair thing to do would be to grandfather the current beneficiaries, and come down very hard on abusers, then taper in the new rules. But life isn't usually fair when money's involved.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Scott

[shirtless]

Lets just face it the Australian government is taking away our way of life and is colluding with big business for their own benefit after politics.

[samran]

Deleted posts edited out*

For what it is worth, Australia has effectively privatised pensions although it will take another half a generation for this to kick in.

At present we pay 9% of our salary, rising to 12% in a few years into private superannuation accounts which we can't access to retirement. Monies are usually handled by fund managers but we can chose how it is invested and we can also put other income procucing assets into out super accounts, for instance, property. Fund managers can be anyone including yourself, but most default to professional managers.

It only kicked into full force and across most occupations in the late 1990s so most here will still need to rely on pensions.

The government pension will still remain as a safely net I guess, but over time it will transfer a great and usually unfunded pension burden away from the state to private indicuduals.

The irony of it all is that a left of centre government in Australia introduced the system in the 1980s yet a system like ours would be the envy of any right wing republican in the US, with one exception. It is compulsory for everyone!!

Edited July 5, 2014 by Scott

[David48]

There hasn't been an 'explosion' in the numbers claiming the DSP ... but I do raise an eyebrow that more then 5% of the working age Australians qualify for the DSP.

The DSP has been clearly targeted by the Government and its media supporters. There has been much made of the fact that now a "record 832,000 Australians receive the DSP". Such a figure sounds impressive, unless you pause to give it some context about how our population is also at "record levels".

But context just gets in the way when you're trying to convince voters that people are out there living in the high hog on your taxpayer dollars, taking home up to $751 a fortnight ($19,544 a year).

The above comes from the ABC

[David48]

Lets just face it the Australian government is taking away our way of life and is colluding with big business for their own benefit after politics.

That maybe the reality as you see ... I don't see it the same way.

[David48]

For what it is worth, Australia has effectively privatised pensions although it will take another half a generation for this to kick in.

At present we pay 9% of our salary, rising to 12% in a few years into private superannuation accounts which we can't access to retirement. Monies are usually handled by fund managers but we can chose how it is invested and we can also put other income procucing assets into out super accounts, for instance, property. Fund managers can be anyone including yourself, but most default to professional managers.

It only kicked into full force and across most occupations in the late 1990s so most here will still need to rely on pensions.

The government pension will still remain as a safely net I guess, but over time it will transfer a great and usually unfunded pension burden away from the state to private indicuduals.

The irony of it all is that a left of centre government in Australia introduced the system in the 1980s yet a system like ours would be the envy of any right wing republican in the US, with one exception. It is compulsory for everyone!!

Nice one samran. When it come to matters like this, we often disagree ... but apart from the last sentence (I'm neutral) ... great post ...

Is 12% Super still a goer?

I know the Abbott led government was looking to change that, but up till now, he had no chance in the Senate ... and I heard nothing about it for ages.

Any update?

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Others have been edited. The topic is not about the US Social Security system and it is not about the situation with refugees.

If you wish to bring the system in other countries into the discussion, it needs to occur as a comparison of the Australian system. Other discussions belong in a different thread.