Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[Jingthing]

Tell you what Jing let's do it this way, yes your fears are true, yes get collared by the police even on a 1day overstay your getting banned for 5 years... Happy now ?....this is what you want to hear isn't it ?

I only want the rule clarified, and no, I would prefer that those apprehended under 90 day overstay are under the rules allowed a way out by paying a penalty and avoiding any kind of ban. But as I read the new rule, your reading matches mine.

[ParadiseLost]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more towards JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

Edited July 8, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[jpinx]

Tell you what Jing let's do it this way, yes your fears are true, yes get collared by the police even on a 1day overstay your getting banned for 5 years... Happy now ?....this is what you want to hear isn't it ?

I only want the rule clarified, and no, I would prefer that those apprehended under 90 day overstay are under the rules allowed a way out by paying a penalty and avoiding any kind of ban. But as I read the new rule, your reading matches mine.

The thai language part does not appear to mention that this new penalty system is for over 90-days only, so if you are one day over and you are apprehended -- don't expect to come back.

On the other hand - if you are normal, sane pèrson you will book your flight out a week or so before your current visa expires....

Overstay is overstay .. one day or more .. that rule has not changed. The difference now is a penalty system that will sharpen peoples focus on the requirement to abide by the rules laid down for them as visitors, by the administrators of the host country which kindly allows them in.....

Edited July 8, 2014 by jpinx

[Jingthing]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more in JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

If this can be authoritatively confirmed and clarified, I would suggest that a new thread is started to more loudly ANNOUNCE this situation. A casual reader seeing the current headline will think under 90 days, OK no big deal, no matter what, don't even have to worry about having my passport checked. But if that is not the case with apprehension, I think it is very important that each and every foreigner in Thailand get this message, LOUD AND CLEAR.

[jpinx]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more in JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

If this can be authoritatively confirmed and clarified, I would suggest that a new thread is started to more loudly ANNOUNCE this situation. A casual reader seeing the current headline will think under 90 days, OK no big deal, no matter what, don't even have to worry about having my passport checked. But if that is not the case with apprehension, I think it is very important that each and every foreigner in Thailand get this message, LOUD AND CLEAR.

Any application to immigration is dealt with by an officer who has sole right of leniency or otherwise. A pleasant and helpful manner by the visitor will go a long way to help.

[NanLaew]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more in JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

If this can be authoritatively confirmed and clarified, I would suggest that a new thread is started to more loudly ANNOUNCE this situation. A casual reader seeing the current headline will think under 90 days, OK no big deal, no matter what, don't even have to worry about having my passport checked. But if that is not the case with apprehension, I think it is very important that each and every foreigner in Thailand get this message, LOUD AND CLEAR.

Well we already got you LOUD AND CLEAR. But why on earth ask the same question repeatedly on a thread that is less than 12 hours old that half the forumites haven't gotten around to reading yet... even those with glacial internet connections?!

You DO have valid concerns and there's certainly already conflicting proof between documents being discussed herein and documents already showing up at Immigration desks.

I am pretty sure that those that created this thread have their finger on the pulse and as soon as anything is confirmed, inasmuch as anything can be confirmed in these difficult times, I suggest taking a time-out on posting the same question here cos sure as hell with the answers so far, you, I and all the others online right now aint having any epiphany.

[Jingthing]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more in JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

If this can be authoritatively confirmed and clarified, I would suggest that a new thread is started to more loudly ANNOUNCE this situation. A casual reader seeing the current headline will think under 90 days, OK no big deal, no matter what, don't even have to worry about having my passport checked. But if that is not the case with apprehension, I think it is very important that each and every foreigner in Thailand get this message, LOUD AND CLEAR.

Any application to immigration is dealt with by an officer who has sole right of leniency or otherwise. A pleasant and helpful manner by the visitor will go a long way to help.

Again, I think you are basing that on questionable assumptions.

If the rules are clear about bans for overstays (apprehensions or not) how do you know specific officers are not compelled to follow the rules to the letter of the law?

If I'm hearing you correctly, you think they can respond to their bosses, why didn't you apply the law with the answer, he was polite.

[jpinx]

The new 'form' does differ from the proposed order, in that there is no header or general statement referring to a specific period (of 90 days).

This now sways me more in JT thinking that it is indeed a 5 year ban for anyone apprehended on overstay less than 1 year.

If this can be authoritatively confirmed and clarified, I would suggest that a new thread is started to more loudly ANNOUNCE this situation. A casual reader seeing the current headline will think under 90 days, OK no big deal, no matter what, don't even have to worry about having my passport checked. But if that is not the case with apprehension, I think it is very important that each and every foreigner in Thailand get this message, LOUD AND CLEAR.

Any application to immigration is dealt with by an officer who has sole right of leniency or otherwise. A pleasant and helpful manner by the visitor will go a long way to help.

Again, I think you are basing that on questionable assumptions.

If the rules are clear about bans for overstays (apprehensions or not) how do you know specific officers are not compelled to follow the rules to the letter of the law?

If I'm hearing you correctly, you think they can respond to their bosses, why didn't you apply the law with the answer, he was polite.

Your specific "worry" is the case of someone being apprehended when on overstay of maybe only a few days. If he can convince the "arresting" officer of his bona fide intentions and has a friendly and respectful manner, the chances are that the officer will be inclined to find a remedy less draconian than the full penalty. In much the same way that if you are stopped for speeding and you have a good excuse (pregnant wife giving birth in back seat maybe) you have a good chance of leniency.

It would appear that most of the hassle people have with immigration in Thailand is self-inflicted because people don't know the rules, don't abide by the rules, believe they have some "right" to be here, have a lousy attitude with the immigration officer, etc , etc,

[RTH10260]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

Not this again.

It CLEARLY says under one year gets a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

That's why I am asking for CLARIFICATION of that from someone with actual inside knowledge and authority.

Not people making guesses or indulging in wishful thinking or making assumptions about stuff from the PAST.

About the IF APPREHENDED part, not the voluntary part.

As the text is written now, the most logical reading is that the 5 year ban applies to all overstayers up to one year apprehended even UNDER 90 days.

So a clarification would be more like a correction of what is already written, IF indeed those apprehended with under 90 days will indeed be treated differently. In that case, I think we need to know treated differently how specifically.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarification about this aspect of the new rule:

Apprehension with an overstay of less than 90 days

Is that too much to ask for?

i guess this means if you now move to the border you will be lucky, but if police pick you up before crossing the border line you have drawn the short straw.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[attento]

Is there any country in the world that does not have immigration laws which include provision for sanctions on visitors who do not comply with their visa conditions ?

Is there any 1 week, 1 month or 1 year overstayer not fully aware of their action ?

[MJCM]

Just a reminder, if you think you are going to have to overstay (for whatever reason), just goto your local immigration, pay 1900 Thb and get an extension of stay for 7 days.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[marstons]

Im not sure why someone would bother trying to overstay anyway. In ANY country in the world it's illegal and courting disaster. I actually hope that all these recent shakedowns will help rid the country of some of the scurvy bilge that is found clinging to the vestiges of their sorry lives in this beautiful land.

its illegal bla bla bla,,, perhaps if countries around the world stopped being so anal about foreign visitors of independent means , there might be less friction and a greater spread of culture, understanding of social and work ethics. Why should anyone be shackled to any one country just because they were born there...

stop bleating on about the law and stand up against it for the good of change.

So are you going to stand up against this law if you live here and over stay , or going to comply with it.

[MILT]

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Im not sure why someone would bother trying to overstay anyway. In ANY country in the world it's illegal and courting disaster. I actually hope that all these recent shakedowns will help rid the country of some of the scurvy bilge that is found clinging to the vestiges of their sorry lives in this beautiful land.

its illegal bla bla bla,,, perhaps if countries around the world stopped being so anal about foreign visitors of independent means , there might be less friction and a greater spread of culture, understanding of social and work ethics. Why should anyone be shackled to any one country just because they were born there...

stop bleating on about the law and stand up against it for the good of change.

Awesome! Just the mention of world peace using peace is the start!

[CRUNCHER]

Some people seem to forget - this is Thailand. It belongs to the Thais. None of us has a god given right to be here at all. We are here under licence (conditions) imposed by the authorities of Thailand who are responsible to the Thai people. Those of us who do not like the conditions imposed do have a god given right to leave. If our leaving hurts the Thai people ecconomically, or in some other way, that is up to the Thais. They must face the consequences of their actions, I doubt that a few foreigners, who cannot abide by the law, go away will cause many problem to the Thais.

When you are on someone else's property (in this case a country) you should abide by any conditions imposed by the owner of the land (in this case the Thais) relating to your stay. If you are not prepared to abide by those conditions you should not enter the property in the first place.

Apart from anything else it is good manners.

[Soutpeel]

Some people seem to forget - this is Thailand. It belongs to the Thais. None of us has a god given right to be here at all. We are here under licence (conditions) imposed by the authorities of Thailand who are responsible to the Thai people. Those of us who do not like the conditions imposed do have a god given right to leave. If our leaving hurts the Thai people ecconomically, or in some other way, that is up to the Thais. They must face the consequences of their actions, I doubt that a few foreigners, who cannot abide by the law, go away will cause many problem to the Thais.

When you are on someone else's property (in this case a country) you should abide by any conditions imposed by the owner of the land (in this case the Thais) relating to your stay. If you are not prepared to abide by those conditions you should not enter the property in the first place.

Apart from anything else it is good manners.

Some farangs think they have the god given right to her here based on some of posts on TV, one suspects this sense of entitlement is at the root of a lot of overstay problems, "how dare the natives tell me I can't stay here as long as I want"

[sabaijai]

I disagree. They are harsh. Just because another country may ALSO have harsh laws does not mean THESE laws are not harsh. That is NOT logical. Again ... think for a second, a potential 5 year ban for a ONE DAY overstay. That's harsh no matter how you spin it.

So far the information says up to a year but it doesn't give a minimum amount. I'd be surprised at a one day overstay resulting in the 5 year ban being implemented. We'll have to wait for some sort of clarification on a minimum amount.

That would be welcome. As it stands I think my reading is correct,

I don't understand how you arrive at that reading. You have to overstay by more than 90 days -- not one day -- for the shortest ban of one year.

Overstay more than 90 days > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year.

[Jingthing]

sabaijai, I think you are talking about something different. I have focused specifically on the text about a five year bans for overstays up to one year when the foreigner is APPREHENDED. Refer both to the OP and especially the printed form being given to applicants to sign at immigration offices now.

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[sabaijai]

sabaijai, I think you are talking about something different. I have focused specifically on the text about a five year bans for overstays up to one year when the foreigner is APPREHENDED. Refer both to the OP and especially the printed form being given to applicants to sign at immigration offices now.

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

OK I see what you mean. You're right, the way it is worded, it appears that any overstay, if apprehended, could result in a five-year ban. Harsh indeed!

[Jingthing]

Yes chillingly harsh.

Shock and awe, Thaivisa style, innit?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Moonrakers]

OK...

So i need a new passport as mine is full. With the current delays with British passports overstay is unavoidable for me. As my existing passport is cancelled when the application is received in the UK, I cannot leave the country or get an extension to avoid overstay. With the delays it is also possible that I could go over 90 days overstay.

So, because of the delays I could get banned for 1 year if I surrender or, even worse, get banned for 5 years if apprehended?

Harsh just doesn't cover it! Are cases such as mine taken into account?

Edited July 8, 2014 by Moonrakers

[Pattaya46]

So, because of the delays I could get banned for 1 year if I surrender or, even worse, get banned for 5 years if apprehended?

No, not because of the delays, but because you didn't take them in account

and didn't renew your passport earlier...

You would not be in this situation is you had renewed it 3 or 6 month ago, right ? So ?

Always easier to say it's somebody else fault

[mrtoad]

OK...

So i need a new passport as mine is full. With the current delays with British passports overstay is unavoidable for me. As my existing passport is cancelled when the application is received in the UK, I cannot leave the country or get an extension to avoid overstay. With the delays it is also possible that I could go over 90 days overstay.

So, because of the delays I could get banned for 1 year if I surrender or, even worse, get banned for 5 years if apprehended?

Harsh just doesn't cover it! Are cases such as mine taken into account?

Not sure mate, was speaking to someone who had massive issues regarding his passport being issued, UK passports are in disarray at the moment.

I think it's actually easier to go back to the UK if renewing a passport and get a new one issued. However, as you said this is not possible once in the system. I hope that there are significant complaints made against UK passport agency, and certainly compensation where appropriate.

[Moonrakers]

Why on earth would I take the delays into account when I was not aware of them?

[mrtoad]

So, because of the delays I could get banned for 1 year if I surrender or, even worse, get banned for 5 years if apprehended?

No, not because of the delays, but because you didn't take them in account

and didn't renew your passport earlier...

You would not be in this situation is you had renewed it 3 or 6 month ago, right ? So ?

Always easier to say it's somebody else fault

The current set up for get a new passport is a joke.

[Moonrakers]

My passports full Toady, going to the UK isn't an option

[Moonrakers]

So, because of the delays I could get banned for 1 year if I surrender or, even worse, get banned for 5 years if apprehended?

No, not because of the delays, but because you didn't take them in account

and didn't renew your passport earlier...

You would not be in this situation is you had renewed it 3 or 6 month ago, right ? So ?

Always easier to say it's somebody else fault

The current set up for get a new passport is a joke.

The current estimation is 10 weeks. Add on to that another 3 weeks just to get an appointment to make the application.

[mrtoad]

My passports full Toady, going to the UK isn't an option

Yeah, I noticed that in what you said. Really don't know the answer, but got to be worth writing a letter to your MP in Wiltshire, I am guessing that there are a lot of complaints about the service. However, on the Tha front no idea as to what they would suggest. Temporary passport ?

[neverdie]

My passports full Toady, going to the UK isn't an option

I don't know what the answer to your problem is Rakers, I'm just glad to see that you are still alive, I thought you were dead !

It's a joyous day !

Perhaps you need to take yourself along to Thai immigration and if they can't help you then down to the embassy for emergency travel docs back home.......where you can sort out a new passport post haste.

Times are changing in LOS, old friend, these systems don't care about the exceptions to the rule, passports, delays and so forth. I urge you to act quickly before the 90 day deadline.

Best of luck, sorry to read about ur troubles, glad ur still alive !

[mrtoad]

Yeah good to see Moonrakers back, must catch up next time in BKK

[Moonrakers]

I'm still alive and kicking ND. I hope you're well.

What a bloody kerfuffle though eh. Going by current estimations I have 5 weeks or so to play with where the 90 days is concerned and I'm not the sort of person to give immigration a reason to come looking for me. I should be OK, still a worry though.