Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[Jingthing]

From the OP:

Today, Thaivisa.com has been given access to a new Police order proposal that is due to be signed and released imminently, detailing tough new measures for foreigners who overstay in Thailand.

The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:

To the many posters still concerned about going into overstay - be it through forgetting their exit date, accident, illness, etc - the title of the thread clearly states you will be blacklisted if you are exceeding 90 days.

If you are apprehended it still falls within the description of the law that you will only be blacklisted after 90 days. What they do with you before 90 days is anyone's guess...

You could be blacklisted if you are arrested for a serious crime but that has always been the case.

Personally I gain no pleasure in seeing people screw up their lives - not (as so many seem to feel) the Thai government screwing up their lives - but I find it difficult to sympathise as it has not been a walk in the park for someone who has stayed within the law.

I didn't read it that way. In the OP, is clearly states as below. You have decided that the introductory section also applies to the section about persons being APPREHENDED. Maybe it does, maybe it does ... but you don't KNOW that.

As this is written below, any person apprehended less than one year is subject to the draconian 5 year ban. Nothing in this text about less than 90 days getting no 5 year ban.

IF they had meant to communicate a different policy for those apprehended under 90 days, surely it would have / should have been included in this TEXT, yes?

Again seems a kind of of wishful, even magical thinking to assume a person APPREHENDED before the 90 days would get the same treatment as those exiting Thailand voluntarily with an under 90 day overstay.

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Overstay for more than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[harrry]

If you have a motor car accident you have to consider what will happen if the Police hold your passport. Say you have to leave in two days can you? NO. WIll they give you an extension? NO!. Will they arrest you for overstay? YES.

[mrtoad]

I don't think that Thai Immigration are interested in the few days overstay visitor, what they are fed up with, and so they should be is the large amount of people who are deliberately overstaying for long periods. This enforcement will ultimately with any luck put an end to the scratchers who are trying to illegally stay in the country.

[Thanet]

This change was only a matter of time, given how extraordinarily lenient the sanctions for overstaying are at the moment.

[DrTuner]

All these thousands of overstayers do pay into the economy some way or other as they still have to buy clothes and food it is not like the UK where the government hand out benefits every week I have met a few they seem to be single retired people who survive on the pensions they get from back home. Maybe while the government are looking into these matters they will make one rule for everyone and that is one must have the same amount of income at the moment if you are married to a Thai your income requirement is only 40,000 per month as opposed to 65,000 per month which I find to be totally unfair

They could simply take the PE visa you can buy from Thailand Elite and make it a 1y deal. 100k/y, prepaid, available as non-imm. Scrap all other non-immigrant visas. Pay-per-stay, fair enough ?

[Jingthing]

I don't think that Thai Immigration are interested in the few days overstay visitor, what they are fed up with, and so they should be is the large amount of people who are deliberately overstaying for long periods. This enforcement will ultimately with any luck put an end to the scratchers who are trying to illegally stay in the country.

If there is no interest, then we would hope for a clear communication from immigration for the exact new legal policy for persons apprehended with overstays under 90 days. The law is the law and if the law is indeed a draconian 5 year ban in such cases, then many accidental/unintentional overstayers could be facing a horribly unpleasant end to in some cases very long settled times in Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

It would be interesting to know how many of you Guys (accidentally or not) overstayed while being in Thailand.

I overstayed once (1 day) because the Visa Run minibus broke down and they couldn't get a replacement. The following day they paid the fines for who were (because of them) on overstay.

But since then, I always made sure that my Visa Run was 2-3 days before the expiry date. Never had a overstay since.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

For me personally never in 14 years, and yes things do happen where someone could find themselves on an overstay of a couple of days.... Sh*t happens,

but the target of these measures is not these people, but the one who are obviously taking the p*ss and running up extensive overstays because the only real consequence is a Thb 20k fine currently

No one can convince me that someone "accidentally" overstays 3 months or greater in Thailand they know exactly what they are doing and this is who the measures are targeting

So to me at least the only ones to blame that these measures are being put in place are the people who have been abusing the system

[thairay]

Thinking out loud. If the Ed visa is also successfully tightened up - and it should be - it could leave us with just a core expat population who are here within the law contributing to Thai society living here on the correct visa. The next stage surely would be easier extensions (marriage or retirement) and who knows the ridiculous 90 day report might become a thing of the past. I would gladly pay 10000 up front for a 5 year visa, where perhaps the 90 day report could be replaced with a 365 day one. Just thinking out loud and hoping this is read by the Immigration Minister / Commander.

You are an example of a selfish expat we certainly do not need in Thailand.

We ?

[thairay]

We? perhaps he's got a mouse in his pocket???

[DrTuner]

Good for all those listed cases of intentional overstay, but they should definitely include a tolerance period of 15 days with a 1000 baht fine per day whithout further consequences. I personally know a few loonies who simply remembered their departure date wrong.

And it's too much trouble to check the passport once a week if your memory is that bad?

How hard is it to put key dates into a phone, computer or on a piece of paper to remind someone a week or so before ?

To be honest using the excuse of forgetting in this day and age is not an excuse at all

I simply mark the date with a marker on a calender I have hanging on the wall. Right away after coming from immigration. The same calendar has birthdays and other important days marked and is in clear view all the time. Old tech rules.

Being careless with important dates is truly a case of som nam naa.

[Jingthing]

This change was only a matter of time, given how extraordinarily lenient the sanctions for overstaying are at the moment.

They were relatively lenient. There are other countries much more lenient like Argentina, but lenient or not lenient, it doesn't matter now. What matters now are the CHANGES. So from relatively lenient to potentially draconian ... seems it might be rather an overreaction. Particularly concerned to get clarification on the apprehended with an under 90 day overstay 5 year ban thing.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[sjaak327]

I don't think that Thai Immigration are interested in the few days overstay visitor, what they are fed up with, and so they should be is the large amount of people who are deliberately overstaying for long periods. This enforcement will ultimately with any luck put an end to the scratchers who are trying to illegally stay in the country.

These measures do never actually target the ones that are intended. As they will continue to stay under the radar. Overstaying in Thailand has always had the potential of dire consequences (if caught) now apparently any overstay will have you banned from the country.

One thing is for sure, as always people that will get caught up in this aren't the ones being targeted.

[Soutpeel]

I don't think that Thai Immigration are interested in the few days overstay visitor, what they are fed up with, and so they should be is the large amount of people who are deliberately overstaying for long periods. This enforcement will ultimately with any luck put an end to the scratchers who are trying to illegally stay in the country.

If there is no interest, then we would hope for a clear communication from immigration for the exact new legal policy for persons apprehended with overstays under 90 days. The law is the law and if the law is indeed a draconian 5 year ban in such cases, then many accidental/unintentional overstayers could be facing a horribly unpleasant end to in some cases very long settled times in Thailand.

Jing

All that will happen up to 90 days will be same 20k fine and a slap on the wrist red stamp in pp if you make to the airport

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

[chrisinth]

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From the OP:

Today, Thaivisa.com has been given access to a new Police order proposal that is due to be signed and released imminently, detailing tough new measures for foreigners who overstay in Thailand.

The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:

To the many posters still concerned about going into overstay - be it through forgetting their exit date, accident, illness, etc - the title of the thread clearly states you will be blacklisted if you are exceeding 90 days.

If you are apprehended it still falls within the description of the law that you will only be blacklisted after 90 days. What they do with you before 90 days is anyone's guess...

You could be blacklisted if you are arrested for a serious crime but that has always been the case.

Personally I gain no pleasure in seeing people screw up their lives - not (as so many seem to feel) the Thai government screwing up their lives - but I find it difficult to sympathise as it has not been a walk in the park for someone who has stayed within the law.

I didn't read it that way. In the OP, is clearly states as below. You have decided that the introductory section also applies to the section about persons being APPREHENDED. Maybe it does, maybe it does ... but you don't KNOW that.

As this is written below, any person apprehended less than one year is subject to the draconian 5 year ban. Nothing in this text about less than 90 days getting no 5 year ban.

IF they had meant to communicate a different policy for those apprehended under 90 days, surely it would have / should have been included in this TEXT, yes?

Again seems a kind of of wishful, even magical thinking to assume a person APPREHENDED before the 90 days would get the same treatment as those exiting Thailand voluntarily with an under 90 day overstay.

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Overstay for more than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

JT, it also says clearly in the OP :

"However, Thaivisa.com must stress that we are still awaiting official confirmation from the Immigration Bureau on this matter".

Where I fully understand your point about the possibility of someone getting binned from Thailand for 5 years for a one day overstay, common sense would say that there would need to be a provision for the unknown/unavoidable circumstances that can and do happen.

Not saying you shouldn't believe all you read, but maybe look at it from a wider angle. IMHO, I don't think the target of the changes are directed at normal people with proper visas.

Still, that being said, perhaps I am being naïve trying to bring logic to the floor.

[Soutpeel]

All these thousands of overstayers do pay into the economy some way or other as they still have to buy clothes and food it is not like the UK where the government hand out benefits every week I have met a few they seem to be single retired people who survive on the pensions they get from back home. Maybe while the government are looking into these matters they will make one rule for everyone and that is one must have the same amount of income at the moment if you are married to a Thai your income requirement is only 40,000 per month as opposed to 65,000 per month which I find to be totally unfair

They could simply take the PE visa you can buy from Thailand Elite and make it a 1y deal. 100k/y, prepaid, available as non-imm. Scrap all other non-immigrant visas. Pay-per-stay, fair enough ?

Or they could simply give you deal where in you pay 500k and get one that's good for 5 years....fair enough ?

Hold on, stop the presses..... Doesn't Thailand already offer this ?..... Costs you the princely sum of THB 270/day or there abouts , less than the national daily wage of 300/day

[Shaunduhpostman]

I wonder if they have the means to enforce any of it anyway. What if a person on a blacklist simply turns around and gets a new passport? I know nothing about the system but it wouldn't surprise me if people are kept track of by their passport number only.

[Jingthing]

...

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

[Emster23]

"I have a Norwegian friend who got systematically robbed by hie Thai wife and her family (without his knowledge of course) He arrived in Thailand fairly wealthy and ended up destitute with nowhere to live and on overstay."

Here's an idea: when get cleaned out (not "if" for many) gather up documentation and take to immigration. Then provide refund of 10% somewhat akin to VAT refund, including ticket home if large enough sum. I know several who would qualify for scheme. Or give education visa, as (hopefully) they'd learned their lessons.....

[Soutpeel]

I wonder if they have the means to enforce any of it anyway. What if a person on a blacklist simply turns around and gets a new passport? I know nothing about the system but it wouldn't surprise me if people are kept track of by their passport number only.

Well be prepared to be surprised then...they can cross reference passports pretty easy, name, nationality, DOB, PP number and a copy of your smiling face at immigration

[Soutpeel]

...

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

I have assumed the same as everyone else on this thread Jing, including you, so if my comments dont have credibility, either do yours then

[Hardy99]

Gotta love the posts applauding these new rules.

I wonder if the same people will cheer as well when Immigration imposes further restrictions on marriage/retirement visas.

Exactly. What would happen if they announced that everyone needs to have 1m USD in a bank to qualify for a long term visa? Or that to get a work permit you need to earn 1m USD a year?

Watch how the whining little toads would suddenly change their tune.

The visa system here needs an overhall for sure...but some of the sanctimonious posts on here make me want to vomit.

Funny Tweed.... All holders of marriage or retirement visas have to proceed the 90 days control to not be punished about overstay!

No legal visa means NO STAY - in every Country.. and it is not so long time ago that I read here that there "no need to be worried

about the changes in the border runner procedure.. just make an overstay, nothing will happen"...

You can &lt;deleted&gt; everyone until they get to know about it.. then they will give it back.

All those who think Thailand should urgently Change theit Visa System.. how is it in your Country then?

I can only speak about all the native english speaking country's have much stronger rules about stay in their countries...

[sjaak327]

...

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

I have assumed the same as everyone else on this thread Jing, including you, so if my comments dont have credibility, either do yours then

his comments do have credibility. The OP is specific enough. It states two different scenarios regarding overstay, one where the subject voluntary settles the overstay and one where this is not the case, but where the subject got apprehended.

The last scenario states that any overstay under a year will lead to a 5 year ban, any overstay over one year will lead to a 10 year ban.

[mrjonyoung]

Not everyone is a rich falang. I am of simple means and on salary from a university that does not afford me to save much. I have 2 kids who I would do anything for. If I got sick it would not be too long before I would lose my job and run out of cash. Then what? Am I a dead beat? "Scurvy bilge"? i "live" here whether or not I have permission. I dont have the 400K that would make my visa option simple so I am stuck. It is not a stretch to think I could become an intentional over stayer should the circumstances arise. I don't like the "black list". Life is not black and white.

[Jingthing]

...

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

I have assumed the same as everyone else on this thread Jing, including you, so if my comments dont have credibility, either do yours then

his comments do have credibility. The OP is specific enough. It states two different scenarios regarding overstay, one where the subject voluntary settles the overstay and one where this is not the case, but where the subject got apprehended.

The last scenario states that any overstay under a year will lead to a 5 year ban, any overstay over one year will lead to a 10 year ban.

Now even more credibility to read these new laws the way I have read them, that an APPREHENSION even under 90 days results in a 5 year ban from Thailand. The OP presented this as perhaps a work in progress.

Perhaps it's much more of a done deal and there is that language again, apprehended with an overstay under one year, 5 year ban:

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Soutpeel]

...
as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

I have assumed the same as everyone else on this thread Jing, including you, so if my comments dont have credibility, either do yours then

his comments do have credibility. The OP is specific enough. It states two different scenarios regarding overstay, one where the subject voluntary settles the overstay and one where this is not the case, but where the subject got apprehended.

The last scenario states that any overstay under a year will lead to a 5 year ban, any overstay over one year will lead to a 10 year ban.

Now even more credibility to read these new laws the way I have read them, that an APPREHENSION even under 90 days results in a 5 year ban from Thailand. The OP presented this as perhaps a work in progress.

Perhaps it's much more of a done deal and there is that language again, apprehended with an overstay under one year, 5 year ban:
overstay form.jpg

Exactly Jing, a work in progress, further one assumes your quoting the English text ?..... What does it say in the Thai version ? Edited July 8, 2014 by ubonjoe
fixed broken quotes (space needed between quote code blocks and text).

[DrTuner]

All these thousands of overstayers do pay into the economy some way or other as they still have to buy clothes and food it is not like the UK where the government hand out benefits every week I have met a few they seem to be single retired people who survive on the pensions they get from back home. Maybe while the government are looking into these matters they will make one rule for everyone and that is one must have the same amount of income at the moment if you are married to a Thai your income requirement is only 40,000 per month as opposed to 65,000 per month which I find to be totally unfair

They could simply take the PE visa you can buy from Thailand Elite and make it a 1y deal. 100k/y, prepaid, available as non-imm. Scrap all other non-immigrant visas. Pay-per-stay, fair enough ?

Or they could simply give you deal where in you pay 500k and get one that's good for 5 years....fair enough ?

Hold on, stop the presses..... Doesn't Thailand already offer this ?..... Costs you the princely sum of THB 270/day or there abouts , less than the national daily wage of 300/day

Yes, it's affordable. The previous 20y scheme where you got 5y visas in a row was too iffy, could have been canceled any time and you'd be paying for practically nothing.

If they add another 1y membership, it would become a de facto solution for long time tourists. 5y might still be too long for them. And drop the &lt;deleted&gt; with "Elite" or whatever, it's just annoying.

Overstay rules apply for the PE entries as well, of course. The tightening of the enforcement and overstay rules are obviously intended to fix the leaking back board in order to force foreigners to do exactly what immigration has been saying for a couple of months now: get a proper visa and/or extension of stay. And once the abuse get redirected to the visas because there are no more loopholes elsewhere, regulating the rules for visa issue will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Legit tourists (legitimacy could just as well be defined by tax laws, ie no tax residency allowed, easy) will not be harassed by enforcement of the immigration rules.

[FiestyFarang]

I wonder about those who let their children's visa lapse, since they had expected no fine for them on exit. Irresponsible on the parents part, no doubt. But wonder if minors under 15 will be blacklisted (effectively blacklisting the parents as well).

What if your children were born here and have never had a visa?

My kids were born here but are not Thai Citizens.

They have overstayed a bunch but there is no fine until your kids turn 12.

Are they to be black listed?

If they are born in Thailand can they not claim Thai citizenship?

[jpinx]

Perhaps a bit radical.

However would it not be in the best interests of all concerned, the authorities and overstayers for the immigration department to declare an ammnesty say of a 2 month duration and allow those who are in need of ''assistance'' to establish a legitimate visa status to do so or those who wish could perhaps leave Thailand without let or hinderance.

Once done then strictly the rules, no touting of education visa's no offers of ''work permits and visa services, O visa'a marriage visa's etc etc. Level the playing field and there will be fewer problemms. eliminate the visa sevice agencies who in truth have contributired to this curent situation over many years with dubious nay downright illegal practices in many cases.

There will always be ''illegals'' they can't be stopped but with a bit of forward planning a large degree of control could and would be achieved.

Of course the greatest hinderance to such an idea would be both logic and forward planning, neither item being a particulary Thai trait.

There is an "amnesty" now. Things have not changed yet. There will be a few weeks or more before the new penalties are brought into effect -- plenty of time for people to sort out their "status".

Remember that there are no new rules here -- simply a revision of the penalties incurred for something that has ALWAYS been illegal.

[Jingthing]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[DrTuner]

Perhaps it's much more of a done deal and there is that language again, apprehended with an overstay under one year, 5 year ban:

overstay form.jpg

That looks like something a foreigner has to sign. I wonder when would this be presented to be signed ? Upon entry to Thailand or when applying for a visa ?