Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[Jingthing]

Perhaps it's much more of a done deal and there is that language again, apprehended with an overstay under one year, 5 year ban:

overstay form.jpg

That looks like something a foreigner has to sign. I wonder when would this be presented to be signed ? Upon entry to Thailand or when applying for a visa ?

It was reported already being asked to sign at an immigration upon application for extension. The fact that such a form exists gives a strong clue this is the FINAL text of the rules.

[sjaak327]

Perhaps it's much more of a done deal and there is that language again, apprehended with an overstay under one year, 5 year ban:

overstay form.jpg

That looks like something a foreigner has to sign. I wonder when would this be presented to be signed ? Upon entry to Thailand or when applying for a visa ?

It was reported already being asked to sign at an immigration upon application for extension. The fact that such a form exists gives a strong clue this is the FINAL text of the rules.

Yep it sure does. So much for work in progress.

Draconian is the only right word here.

[Living in a cartoon]

Noted that ED vusas are being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indeed.

I have recently written to the immigration chief about the need to tighten the rules surrounding this visa opportunity.

Hopefully they close it right up and make it so that genuine students only need apply

Interesting how i saw an email yesterday from a visa company offering a "no study" ED visa for 17,000. Some people have made good money out of this loophole in yhe past few years, but if i had shares in it, i would be dumping them pdq

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Careful there fella. Some of these vendors advertise on TVF.

[Soutpeel]

Noted that ED vusas are being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indeed.

I have recently written to the immigration chief about the need to tighten the rules surrounding this visa opportunity.

Hopefully they close it right up and make it so that genuine students only need apply

Interesting how i saw an email yesterday from a visa company offering a "no study" ED visa for 17,000. Some people have made good money out of this loophole in yhe past few years, but if i had shares in it, i would be dumping them pdq

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Careful there fella. Some of these vendors advertise on TVF.

Which ones...? Think this would be for the public good, as I if even decided to study Thai via a language school I would certainly never give my money to one who could be involved in "suspect" activities so it would good to know up front

[RTH10260]

I read that (in the US) a name change in the court costs $200 and a new passport costs $120. Problem solved?

Nope. Your fingerprints follow you as part of the biometric information.

And in many countries namechange is not granted at the whim of the applicant but only for 'serious reasons' maybe once in a lifetime. Or make a legal marriage and take the family name of your spouse

[jpinx]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

[RTH10260]

I read that (in the US) a name change in the court costs $200 and a new passport costs $120. Problem solved?

Nope. Your fingerprints follow you as part of the biometric information.

And in many countries namechange is not granted at the whim of the applicant but only for 'serious reasons' maybe once in a lifetime. Or make a legal marriage and take the family name of your spouse

[Jingthing]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

Not this again.

It CLEARLY says under one year gets a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

That's why I am asking for CLARIFICATION of that from someone with actual inside knowledge and authority.

Not people making guesses or indulging in wishful thinking or making assumptions about stuff from the PAST.

About the IF APPREHENDED part, not the voluntary part.

As the text is written now, the most logical reading is that the 5 year ban applies to all overstayers up to one year apprehended even UNDER 90 days.

So a clarification would be more like a correction of what is already written, IF indeed those apprehended with under 90 days will indeed be treated differently. In that case, I think we need to know treated differently how specifically.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarification about this aspect of the new rule:

Apprehension with an overstay of less than 90 days

Is that too much to ask for?

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[wilcopops]

Thailand is failing ... and remember that you read it here first.

What makes you think you are the first to get that wrong?

[Soutpeel]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

Not this again.

It CLEARLY says under one year gets a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

That's why I am asking for CLARIFICATION of that from someone with actual inside knowledge and authority.

Not people making guesses or indulging in wishful thinking or making assumptions about stuff from the PAST.

About the IF APPREHENDED part, not the voluntary part.

As the text is written now, the most logical reading is that the 5 year ban applies to all overstayers up to one year apprehended even UNDER 90 days.

So a clarification would be more like a correction of what is already written, IF indeed those apprehended with under 90 days will indeed be treated differently. In that case, I think we need to know treated differently how specifically.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarification about this aspect of the new rule:

Apprehension with an overstay of less than 90 days

Is that too much to ask for?

Why don't you test it out Jing and let us know how you got on from the IDC ? Then everyone will have a definitive answer

[Living in a cartoon]

This change was only a matter of time, given how extraordinarily lenient the sanctions for overstaying are at the moment.

They were relatively lenient. There are other countries much more lenient like Argentina, but lenient or not lenient, it doesn't matter now. What matters now are the CHANGES. So from relatively lenient to potentially draconian ... seems it might be rather an overreaction. Particularly concerned to get clarification on the apprehended with an under 90 day overstay 5 year ban thing.

The baht bus goes to Argentina?

[MJCM]

It would be interesting to know how many of you Guys (accidentally or not) overstayed while being in Thailand.

I overstayed once (1 day) because the Visa Run minibus broke down and they couldn't get a replacement. The following day they paid the fines for who were (because of them) on overstay.

But since then, I always made sure that my Visa Run was 2-3 days before the expiry date. Never had a overstay since.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

For me personally never in 14 years, and yes things do happen where someone could find themselves on an overstay of a couple of days.... Sh*t happens,

but the target of these measures is not these people, but the one who are obviously taking the p*ss and running up extensive overstays because the only real consequence is a Thb 20k fine currently

No one can convince me that someone "accidentally" overstays 3 months or greater in Thailand they know exactly what they are doing and this is who the measures are targeting

So to me at least the only ones to blame that these measures are being put in place are the people who have been abusing the system

I understand that short overstays are not targeted, but I was just wondering how many people actually overstayed their visa and for how long, but I think that is something only immigration would know and that might also be the reason why they are now trying to "stop" it.

And on the discussion "overstay less then a year getting a ban", could someone (who lives near by) please goto an Immigration office and ask, else this discussion will last another 20 pages

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[Jingthing]

Why don't you test it out Jing and let us know how you got on from the IDC ? Then everyone will have a definitive answer

I don't think that's funny. I'm asking a serious question. Enforcement of this policy has devastating potential for a lot of people and yes there are people who will fall into the unintentional/accidental overstay status and it could be anyone.

[jpinx]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

Not this again.

It CLEARLY says under one year gets a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

That's why I am asking for CLARIFICATION of that from someone with actual inside knowledge and authority.

Not people making guesses or indulging in wishful thinking or making assumptions about stuff from the PAST.

About the IF APPREHENDED part, not the voluntary part.

As the text is written now, the most logical reading is that the 5 year ban applies to all overstayers up to one year apprehended even UNDER 90 days.

So a clarification would be more like a correction of what is already written, IF indeed those apprehended with under 90 days will indeed be treated differently. In that case, I think we need to know treated differently how specifically.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarification about this aspect of the new rule:

Apprehension with an overstay of less than 90 days

Is that too much to ask for?

No need for any more guesses. The form is out in the wild already. Use the Thai Language wording as that is the legal language.....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/740965-first-reports-of-new-overstay-crackdown/

https://3-ps.googleusercontent.com/sx/www.thaivisa.com/lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4OjMzMUf98c/U7uiOaZcQrI/AAAAAAAAE0Y/sLTIdn1AnQs/w677-h865-no/xoverstay+form.jpg.pagespeed.ic.XXNdYpbxet.jpg

[Soutpeel]

Why don't you test it out Jing and let us know how you got on from the IDC ? Then everyone will have a definitive answer

I don't think that's funny. I'm asking a serious question. Enforcement of this policy has devastating potential for a lot of people and yes there are people who will fall into the unintentional/accidental overstay status and it could be anyone.

It has a devastating potential for the people are making a mockery of the system that's all

[Jingthing]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

Can something in authority get official clarification from immigration regarding the new policy as it relates to those who are apprehended with an under 90 day stay. Are they indeed subject to a 5 year ban, or not, as the current text clearly indicates that they are? Or if not, what IS the specific policy (IF DIFFERENT from 90 days to one year) for those apprehended with overstay of less than 90 days?

The OP says quite clearly ....

"The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:..."

So I read that to mean that if you are apprehended and you have 89 day's overstay the current penalties will apply.

Not this again.

It CLEARLY says under one year gets a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

That's why I am asking for CLARIFICATION of that from someone with actual inside knowledge and authority.

Not people making guesses or indulging in wishful thinking or making assumptions about stuff from the PAST.

About the IF APPREHENDED part, not the voluntary part.

As the text is written now, the most logical reading is that the 5 year ban applies to all overstayers up to one year apprehended even UNDER 90 days.

So a clarification would be more like a correction of what is already written, IF indeed those apprehended with under 90 days will indeed be treated differently. In that case, I think we need to know treated differently how specifically.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarification about this aspect of the new rule:

Apprehension with an overstay of less than 90 days

Is that too much to ask for?

No need for any more guesses. The form is out in the wild already. Use the Thai Language wording as that is the legal language.....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/740965-first-reports-of-new-overstay-crackdown/

https://3-ps.googleusercontent.com/sx/www.thaivisa.com/lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4OjMzMUf98c/U7uiOaZcQrI/AAAAAAAAE0Y/sLTIdn1AnQs/w677-h865-no/xoverstay+form.jpg.pagespeed.ic.XXNdYpbxet.jpg

Yes I see the form. What is your conclusion to my question then based on that form? Regarding the specific issue of persons on overstay under 90 days but APPREHENDED? I don't see anything new there. Am I missing something? Again, if there is nothing new there, perhaps I need to spell this out again. What I'm asking is that someone with good contracts with a person in AUTHORITY in immigration can clarify this question, once and for all, about the actual new policy for those apprehended with under 90 day overstay. Thank you in advance if this question can be answered by a person with actual authority to answer it.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Tomtomtom69]

Now I understand the immigration officer's attitude while he examined my passport last saturday.

I was at the airport leaving Samui for Kuala Lumpur on July 5th in the afternoon, after a 30 days / 29 nights stay in Thailand...he said to me : " hummmm...today.. the last day.." ( as if he wanted to warn me I was about to trespass regulation) , then " when will you come back?" I politely replied " next year" ( I stay for one month each year- he could check last year's stamps on my passport), and refrained from adding " so what?".

I never had any conversation with any officer on duty, whenever entering or leaving the Kingdom before that day.. !

People are getting all worked up about immigration cracking down on this or that. Immigration officers in Thailand have traditionally been rather scruffy or even surly, not saying hello or anything to foreigners entering or leaving but that is changing. Over the past 2 years officers have regularly spoken to me, asking about my plans or just general chit-chat, in Mae Sot telling me how they are enforcing a 4-entry limit on 15-day exempt stamps (this was in early 2013) etc. Officers at land borders are more likely to engage in conversation than at the airports in my experience, probably because there are far more visitors entering at airports than at land borders, but anyway, from what I've heard now even at the airports travelers are being questioned and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Usually a couple of explanations, or in rare cases some substantiation of your plans i.e. an itinerary or evidence of funds may be requested. Even countries like Vietnam ask travelers from visa-exempt countries for onward tickets if arriving by air, no idea why Thailand should be any different when the same law is in effect here as well, just that previously it was only enforced for nationals of certain poorer countries, such as Africans, South Asians, etc.

[Jingthing]

Why don't you test it out Jing and let us know how you got on from the IDC ? Then everyone will have a definitive answer

I don't think that's funny. I'm asking a serious question. Enforcement of this policy has devastating potential for a lot of people and yes there are people who will fall into the unintentional/accidental overstay status and it could be anyone.

It has a devastating potential for the people are making a mockery of the system that's all

It could happen to you or anyone (a short overstay) by a mere series of unintentional unfortunate events. But if you want to be callous about this and deny there would be innocent people impacted by this, be my guest. Its a baby and bathwater situation sometimes.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Soutpeel]

Why don't you test it out Jing and let us know how you got on from the IDC ? Then everyone will have a definitive answer

I don't think that's funny. I'm asking a serious question. Enforcement of this policy has devastating potential for a lot of people and yes there are people who will fall into the unintentional/accidental overstay status and it could be anyone.

It has a devastating potential for the people are making a mockery of the system that's all

It could happen to you (a short overstay) but a mere series of unintentional unfortunate events. But if you want to be callous about this and deny there would be innocent people impacted by this, be my guest.

Yes it could, but hasn't happened in the last 14 years, and if it does I will cross that bridge when I get there

One supposes there could be "innocent" people caught up in all this, but as suggested earlier I am convinced a short overstay of less than 90 days is not getting you banned from Thailand, however a series of short overstays over a period of time will

[Equalizer]

So if you hand your self in after 10 years overstay you are banned for life however if you get caught overstaying for 10 years you only get a 10 year ban!!! Hmmmm

[jpinx]

So if you hand your self in after 10 years overstay you are banned for life however if you get caught overstaying for 10 years you only get a 10 year ban!!! Hmmmm

Yes -- a few people have spotted that so don't expect it to remain unchanged for long

At the moment there is a life time ban for overstayers who own up, but for those apprehended, there is no life time ban.. One wonders if there is something behind that ........

Pass me a tin-foil hat,,,,,,,,,,

Edited July 8, 2014 by jpinx

[larsjohnsson]

...

as regards apprehension, it will be same as now less than 90 days you get picked up, your getting a holiday in the IDC, pay your fine ticket in hand your deported and welcome to come back with another visa, if a consulate will give you one with a red stamp in your PP

You have just presumed to state something as if you know on a topic in which you obviously COULDN'T know. Therefore, your assumptions have no credibility.

All we have on the NEW POLICY for under 90 days and apprehended is what is written in the OP.

I have assumed the same as everyone else on this thread Jing, including you, so if my comments dont have credibility, either do yours then

his comments do have credibility. The OP is specific enough. It states two different scenarios regarding overstay, one where the subject voluntary settles the overstay and one where this is not the case, but where the subject got apprehended.

The last scenario states that any overstay under a year will lead to a 5 year ban, any overstay over one year will lead to a 10 year ban.

But this is only from a proposal. So he can't know if it will be like this. It's not not a new policy until it's signed and confirmed

[DrTuner]

Ok. So now if you get nabbed while on overstay for even a single day, 5y blacklist. Them are the rules. Let's wait for the reports on how this actually will be enforced. In Thailand rules and their implementation seem to be two different things.

[Jingthing]

If indeed apprehended overstayers even under 90 days are now subject to a 5 year expulsion, then I think it's worth noting that the HEADLINE on this very thread may be misleading to people.

Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[larsjohnsson]

Not everyone is a rich falang. I am of simple means and on salary from a university that does not afford me to save much. I have 2 kids who I would do anything for. If I got sick it would not be too long before I would lose my job and run out of cash. Then what? Am I a dead beat? "Scurvy bilge"? i "live" here whether or not I have permission. I dont have the 400K that would make my visa option simple so I am stuck. It is not a stretch to think I could become an intentional over stayer should the circumstances arise. I don't like the "black list". Life is not black and white.

I can understand you. But I find it vety strange that somebody working at a university can't afford a visa? You only lock the 400k in your account a few months. It's still your money.

[malt25]

I thought "aliens" came from outer space...?

Most Kiwi's would think that !

Sorry, I just had to. With an opportunity like that you would have expected that sort of a reply from an Aussie.

Oh, I do love your Steinlager.

Cheers.

[larsjohnsson]

If indeed apprehended overstayers even under 90 days are now subject to a 5 year expulsion, then I think it's worth noting that the HEADLINE on this very thread may be misleading to people.

Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

I belive the maximum penalty is 5 year for 90 days or less.

[NanLaew]

If indeed apprehended overstayers even under 90 days are now subject to a 5 year expulsion, then I think it's worth noting that the HEADLINE on this very thread may be misleading to people.

Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

Christ on a bike!

I have been refraining from commenting while battling to get to the last page of this thread on a worse than dialup connection in a mudhut in Cambodia since around 10 this morning. Every time I clicked on the next page, there was always ANOTHER page at the end. Now I am finally here and there's about 20 posts from one person here carping on about the 'draconian rules' and repeatedly seeking clarification if they are going to black-listed for even just a day overstay. Asking the same question over and over and over again.

What on earth is wrong with you man? Are you on overstay NOW and scratching around for your 20k to get stamped out at the airport or what?

These rules are NEW and HOT OF THE PRESS! How on earth can anyone who doesn't work for Immigration answer your repeated questions. Nobody is going to give you the answer you so desperately and obviously seek so please desist.

[Jingthing]

Christ on a bike!

I have been refraining from commenting while battling to get to the last page of this thread on a worse than dialup connection in a mudhut in Cambodia since around 10 this morning. Every time I clicked on the next page, there was always ANOTHER page at the end. Now I am finally here and there's about 20 posts from one person here carping on about the 'draconian rules' and repeatedly seeking clarification if they are going to black-listed for even just a day overstay. Asking the same question over and over and over again.

What on earth is wrong with you man? Are you on overstay NOW and scratching around for your 20k to get stamped out at the airport or what?

These rules are NEW and HOT OF THE PRESS! How on earth can anyone who doesn't work for Immigration answer your repeated questions. Nobody is going to give you the answer you so desperately and obviously seek so please desist.

Are you a mod ordering me to desist?

As I have made clear before, I am not on overstay, have never been, and never INTEND to either.

I ask on behalf of foreigners in general.

I am certain such things as short overstays CAN happen to all kinds of people, without any bad intent, by accident, etc.

The rules as written allow for that liberally enough if you manage to EXIT the country voluntarily.

I think we deserve clarification on the detail I have asked about.

Yes the rules are new but as we can see, they have been PRINTED, and the printed rules seems to indicate the way I have read this all along is true, that even a one day overstay would result in a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

Yes I have posted a lot on this, mainly because a number of people have posted questioning what is now printed in the rule as if they know it isn't true, and they can't possibly know that ... that is WHY foreigners do need some kind of authoritative advice to clarify this question.

If you don't share my concern for innocent foreigners being deeply damaged over an unintentional fault, you are welcome to ignore my posts.

Thank you very much.

I also have no problem with cracking down on intentional law shirkers.

It's those who fall into this status by accident, and yes it happens, that I am worried about as a human being. Yes, I know it could happen to me too so I won't claim pure selflessness, but it could also happen to ANYONE.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Soutpeel]

Christ on a bike!

I have been refraining from commenting while battling to get to the last page of this thread on a worse than dialup connection in a mudhut in Cambodia since around 10 this morning. Every time I clicked on the next page, there was always ANOTHER page at the end. Now I am finally here and there's about 20 posts from one person here carping on about the 'draconian rules' and repeatedly seeking clarification if they are going to black-listed for even just a day overstay. Asking the same question over and over and over again.

What on earth is wrong with you man? Are you on overstay NOW and scratching around for your 20k to get stamped out at the airport or what?

These rules are NEW and HOT OF THE PRESS! How on earth can anyone who doesn't work for Immigration answer your repeated questions. Nobody is going to give you the answer you so desperately and obviously seek so please desist.

Are you a mod ordering me to desist?

As I have made clear before, I am not on overstay, have never been, and never INTEND to either.

I ask on behalf of foreigners in general.

I am certain such things as short overstays CAN happen to all kinds of people, without any bad intent, by accident, etc.

The rules as written allow for that liberally enough if you manage to EXIT the country voluntarily.

I think we deserve clarification on the detail I have asked about.

Yes the rules are new but as we can see, they have been PRINTED, and the printed rules seems to indicate the way I have read this all along is true, that even a one day overstay would result in a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

Yes I have posted a lot on this, mainly because a number of people have posted questioning what is now printed in the rule as if they know it isn't true, and they can't possibly know that ... that is WHY foreigners do need some kind of authoritative advice to clarify this question.

If you don't share my concern for innocent foreigners being deeply damaged over an unintentional fault, you are welcome to ignore my posts.

Thank you very much.

I also have no problem with cracking down on intentional law shirkers.

It's those who fall into this status by accident, and yes it happens, that I am worried about as a human being. Yes, I know it could happen to me too so I won't claim pure selflessness, but it could also happen to ANYONE.

Tell you what Jing let's do it this way, yes your fears are true, yes get collared by the police even on a 1day overstay your getting banned for 5 years... Happy now ?....this is what you want to hear isn't it ?