Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[Soutpeel]

Pretty lenient I think.

If you overstay in the EU/US then chances are you aren't ever going to be allowed back in.

Jing these measures are by no means harsh, they are pretty fair, overstay in the US and you will find yourself possibly on the end of a 5 year ban from entering the US.

Both of you haven't a clue about the status of US border security... If you had, you would not have made this claim... Yes, the law is one thing but reality is much, much different than anyone could imagine...

Er I actually we worked in the US for a while, legally and was warned mess about and breach the t&c of my visa including overstaying I could be banned from entering the US for 5 years

[Jingthing]

I disagree. They are harsh. Just because another country may ALSO have harsh laws does not mean THESE laws are not harsh. That is NOT logical. Again ... think for a second, a potential 5 year ban for a ONE DAY overstay. That's harsh no matter how you spin it.

It depends how you read the OP. It could mean 5 years ban if you are caught overstaying under one year, but over 90 days. It could also mean what you say, but let's wait for clarification before jumping to conclusions. Also, you have the option to report the overstay yourself before you're caught. So in your example, report the overstay before having an accident and being asked for your passport.

...

What you just did was INVENT language that wasn't there. In other words: WISHFUL THINKING. I am going with what is written and what is written does indicate indicate something extremely unreasonable that persons with an ounce of compassion would balk at:

Overstay one day for any reason with any intention and be unlucky enough to be apprehened -- 5 year blacklist.

This could happen to a foreigner who has lived here legally for 30 years.

Think about it.

I believe I have identified the really bad part of this potential change. The other stuff, not nearly as bad for those with good intentions to stay legal.

Perhaps we have people here who might have some chance of influence who can speak to the authorities about this ONE DETAIL?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[philw]

I have a friend going down with Parkinsons and other medical complications.

He is just over 60 yrs old.

He and his wife have a successful manufacturing export company and 3 kids.

About 18 months ago they went to Vietnam sourcing product and at the same time he obtained a multiple entry Non Imm B visa.

This was about 6 months after the onset of his initial medical problems but whilst he was still well enough to travel.

Since then there has been a rapid deterioration of his condition (s) and he has been bed ridden for the last 6-8 months and is in severe pain.

His wife has done her best in the circumstances and has had no choice but to spend their life savings on medical bills.

Well over a couple of million to date, more bills to come and the house ( valued at about 5 million ) is now for sale.

He has no insurance.

The business is good but needs a westerner to interface with clients and do design etc.

By herself she is unlikely to make the business grow and a steady decline is more likely.

There were several different diagnoses from different hospitals and because she was taking him to different hospitals over a period ( always on the advice of various Dr's ) there is no continuity of paperwork and nobody advised her about the visa implications, which were neglected anyway because of the other dramas.

My friend is now on overstay by about 5-6 months, is too ill to travel anywhere and because there are several different hospitals involved, i doubt if a single certificate of treatment covering the overstay can be obtained.

Probably the best that can be obtained is simple certificates to the effect that he attended for treatment on such and such a date.

These will not have the continuity required by immigration.

He has no living relatives in his home country and is now too ill to fly anyway.

There are 3 kids and he has invested the last 30 years of his life here and created a unified family and a successful business ( against all the odds, I might add )

Under these new regulations he is ( choose an adjective ), can be deported and banned from his family and his only means of support.

The people on here lauding zenophobic, heartless and draconian new rules need their heads examined..........................

[larsjohnsson]

I disagree. They are harsh. Just because another country may ALSO have harsh laws does not mean THESE laws are not harsh. That is NOT logical. Again ... think for a second, a potential 5 year ban for a ONE DAY overstay. That's harsh no matter how you spin it.

Didn't you even read it before complaining. One day overstay will not affect you

[Jingthing]

I disagree. They are harsh. Just because another country may ALSO have harsh laws does not mean THESE laws are not harsh. That is NOT logical. Again ... think for a second, a potential 5 year ban for a ONE DAY overstay. That's harsh no matter how you spin it.

Didn't you even read it before complaining. One day overstay will not affect you

I read it. I am talking about if APPREHENDED. Maybe you should read it. Happy to be proven wrong about what is written ... you haven't done so.

[epicstuff]

Depressing to see so many people saying "great to see life getting harder for someone other than me"

What people forget is, there are no good immigration bureaucracies in the world. The western ones mostly suck too. Immigrants are some of the most vulnerable people in the world. Thousands of people fall through the cracks, can't get visas, get separated from their loved ones, etc. because of inflexible bureaucracies.

For a long time one of the attractions of Thailand was that it was easy to come and go. I don't promote overstaying, but if they want to clean up corruption and enforce the law, how about starting with corrupt cops, or hi-so Thais who literally get away with murder? Because foreigners are an easy target that have no rights and no political representation.

If you're cheering on these changes that's what you're supporting -- selective law enforcement that goes after the easy targets.

Who knows where this stops, my concern is that it will continue to a point where living legally in Thailand gets too hard, and then that's one less great place in the world where I can live.

here! here! that man.... nicely put.

[ericthai]

Lets be honest, who overstays? not counting medical reasons and i am sure medical does not run over a year or even 3 months

So

1. People who have no money to do visa runs

2. People who are too lazy to do visa runs

3. People who can not afford proper visa

4. People who do not qualify for visa.

Not exactly the most desirable or productive people, though on the flip side Thailand should expect shortage of English teachers

You missed people who are working here illegally. (unless you include that group in don't qualify)

This is the group they are trying to target.

I assume the schools will start to abide by the rules and get their teachers B visa or close up because they have no

teachers. This should be a good thing all around.

I think this is a good move. Immigration has been trying to go after illegal workers for a long time but been lax

so not to effect other visitors, guess they are not worried anymore. Immigration always said they dont care how long

you stay just get the right visa.

[nicolas18]

Didn't you even read it before complaining. One day overstay will not affect you

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

[starky]

Bugger ... that's going to stuff up a lot of the plans of the overstayers.

I hope there are the usual exemptions such as 'Medical' etc.

I don't think people actually plan to overstay. It's just that circumstances tend to overtake them and they get in a mess.

Best of luck to all people in that situation.

What? don't plan to overstay 1,3, 5, or 10 years? Ace it up you goose, most have overstayed here and there and it seems in this case they are targeting those that make a farce of it. IMO if you have overstayed a year or more it was no accident and I wish them the worst of luck. You are basically encouraging the criminal element to set up in Thailand and I for one would rather see the back end of them..

[Rumblecat]

Pretty lenient I think.

If you overstay in the EU/US then chances are you aren't ever going to be allowed back in.

Jing these measures are by no means harsh, they are pretty fair, overstay in the US and you will find yourself possibly on the end of a 5 year ban from entering the US.

Both of you haven't a clue about the status of US border security... If you had, you would not have made this claim... Yes, the law is one thing but reality is much, much different than anyone could imagine...

And apparently more different than anyone could explain, preferring instead to belittle people for their posts and then swish out a twirl of the moustache and an air of mystery...

[Yahooka]

Sorry no sympathy for any over stayers for any duration unless its for medical reasons

Even then medical reasons are not an excuse, there are provisions in the immigration law in case of medical cases

The problem is immigration often ignore the medical extension refusing to give it and tell people to simply go pay their overstay at the border.

If your in a decent private hospital they usually have liason staff, but in the case of doctors notes and the rest immigration very often waive it off with a 'too hard' attitude. Seen it myself where someone came into immigration after a head injury and hospitalization.. They didnt care in the slightest he was obviously in bandages, and had only just been released and had a hospital / doctors note saying he was unfit for travel. Just told him to go pay his fines at the border.

In the above list, if he was apprehended before getting to the border he would face a 1 year blacklist. Hardly fair.

So yes, fully support the crackdown, as long as the correct systems are put in place to handle the real issues, which immigration just sweep under the 'pay your fine' rug.

I was admitted in Phuket Bkk hospital a couple of years ago with a serious infection.Was just about to leave for Vientiane for a new visa so I got the liason staff to get me an extension and I got an 5 days extension.

But as my hospital stay was unfortunately extended, the liason staff tried to get me another extension and that was denied !! After the hospital discharged me I had to limp my way up to Ranong,still not fully recovered and with a 6 day overstay for a visa run.

I`ve also heard the claims that a serious illness will always give you an extension of the stay which is certainly not always the case.

[Pattaya46]

What about the old guy who is retired here and just forgets to get his extension and overstays.

Getting old does cause people to forget .... even important things.

I hope there is some lead way or there is going to be some real problems.

I would not worry too much about that. As long you are only a few weeks late, they could certainly understand that everyone can forget and act a clever way. It could be trickier for a few months... but again if you can show that you continue to get the same revenues as previous years and then would have had no problem to "renew", they would fine you and ask you to get legal again Asap without this blacklist sentence. Of course it's just my opinion, nothing official, but I saw in the past that Immigration Officers were usually very kind to help those who live here and just made a small mistake, like a forgotten extension date... You are not part of people they now target.

[96tehtarp]

^{Lets be honest, who overstays?...}

5 - People with bad eyesight who misread the visa expiry date (that was me....)

Me too. I'm going to have to open a thread in the Health/Medical forum on myopia.

I have been back to back border running both with and without visas on and off for at least 20+ years. During that time all of my 4 overstays were due to either misreading stamps or miscalculating the date, or arriving at the border too late in the day. My overstays are fewer than the many times I have had to have incorrectly dated stamps made by immigration officials fixed. To err is human.

I have never ever worked a stitch in Thailand and never overstayed more than a week. I always look forward to my visa/border runs and usually stay in the neighboring country for several days and also remain on the Thai side of the border crossing for several days as well. I think I have tried just about all the main crossing points and I loved doing it. They were a great way to see the country and neighboring region.

I think if our dear "Leader" and his crew go through with this one they have totally lost the plot. Overstays could be a great opportunity to earn revenue if there were a sliding-scale fine regimen. The maximum fine could be increased to fx. USD$10,000.00 for certain nationalities. The ban could be lifted after the fine is paid in full.

It looks like this "leader" is turning overstays into a boon for neighboring counties instead of a boon for Thailand. However, what do I know?

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country. I know that any frank elaboration on this would be in violation of TV forum rules, result in a ban, and possibly up to 15 years in a Thai prison. Yet again, I really don't no anything at all. I'll just exercise self censorship and go make a sandwich behind closed doors, with less than five people in my home, and with the curtains drawn. No I don't yet feel quite like Winston Smith having a cup of coffee in the corner, Real coffee... Not yet, but we are getting there.

[larsjohnsson]

I disagree. They are harsh. Just because another country may ALSO have harsh laws does not mean THESE laws are not harsh. That is NOT logical. Again ... think for a second, a potential 5 year ban for a ONE DAY overstay. That's harsh no matter how you spin it.

Didn't you even read it before complaining. One day overstay will not affect you

I read it. I am talking about if APPREHENDED. Maybe you should read it. Happy to be proven wrong about what is written ... you haven't done so.

I'm sure you are wrong. But I hope you are right

[Timwin]

And maybe they will my dear Timwin, only time will tell, but at the moment they appear to be targeting people we who are abusing the current systems in place, eg overstay, illegal working and people who are not on the correct visas for their intended purpose in country

For me personally, if they made things so restrictive that I couldn't remain in Thailand, I would just go home, as I haven't thrown my lot in here, so for me not such a big deal

Yeah, that is why you have been posting 6-10 comments per day for years now. Mostly commenting about Thai visa issues.

You are not committed one bit to Thailand, a full suitcase under the bed, ready to go at any minute...yeah, sure pal!

[Vacuum]

a99az, on 07 Jul 2014 - 16:12, said:

I got to say Thailand is becoming less and less attractive

......for people who can't follow simple rules.

[ericthai]

Depressing to see so many people saying "great to see life getting harder for someone other than me"

What people forget is, there are no good immigration bureaucracies in the world. The western ones mostly suck too. Immigrants are some of the most vulnerable people in the world. Thousands of people fall through the cracks, can't get visas, get separated from their loved ones, etc. because of inflexible bureaucracies.

For a long time one of the attractions of Thailand was that it was easy to come and go. I don't promote overstaying, but if they want to clean up corruption and enforce the law, how about starting with corrupt cops, or hi-so Thais who literally get away with murder? Because foreigners are an easy target that have no rights and no political representation.

If you're cheering on these changes that's what you're supporting -- selective law enforcement that goes after the easy targets.

Who knows where this stops, my concern is that it will continue to a point where living legally in Thailand gets too hard, and then that's one less great place in the world where I can live.

Where are they making it harder? They are making the fines for breaking the laws(overstaying)stronger, that's all. So are you upset because you are living here without a visa and overstaying? I followed the rules as with many others that live here have followed the rules.

I assume you don't support immigrants in your country staying in your country illegally? Same here, Thailand is cracking down on people that are living here illegally. It's still easy to come to Thailand, they still have the visa exempt stamp, you can still get a tourist visa along with B & O visa's.

There are many options to get a visa.

Also I guess you have not seen that the Junta is working on cracking down on corruption, they haven't just started with immigrants. They went after the taxi mafia, threw out the proposal for the airport expansion until it is more transparent. They are working on stopping corruption in politics etc.

[happysanook]

I can not really complain about this. Current USA policy is overstaying up to 6 months results in no official penalty. But after 6 months results in bans.

[wabothai]

May be some of these overstayers got ripped off of all they had and cannot even afford to go and get a visa. Thought of that?

[RichBKK]

This, tightening of the 30 exemption rules and who knows what more is coming.. the condo market at tourist destinations will take a hit.

Which would show the cyclical nature of these things when rules are later relaxed

Just takes the influential owners/shareholders of various property developers like land and houses when their businesses take a hit to see pressure later applied to ease the rules a bit

Junta are not here for the long term, this is one of their experiments. Sooner or later if or when it fails to have a beneficial effect economically then it will be binned further down the road. Just a question of time. Money talks

[Pattszero]

We should credit GulfSailor with bringing this to our attention last week -

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/740240-long-overstay-blacklisting/

As per usual it descended into an argument - and all it took was for TV to make a call to verify it - and viola - now we know the proposals.

So also thanks to TV for being pro-active.

So now it's time for a collective deep breath - no one knows whats happening on the visa front now.

Past expertise is being wiped out.

[manonthemon]

Hope it doesn't affect children under 12 or whatever the age is that they let it slip....

If you don't have / need a Visa then you cannot "Overstay".

Patrick

Officially they need a visa, in practice immigration doesn't fine kids under the age of 14. Don;'t know if this is a law or an unwritten rule. Now will they become part of the "blacklisting" thing is the question.

If a child enters Thailand other than via its Mothers' birth canal whilst here in the Country they need a Visa - there may be a silent agreement not to charge Overstay if the child does not exit in accordance with their Visa but I am not at all sure of that, rather doubt it actually.

The only situation which I know is true is that if a child is born in Thailand he / she will not be charged "Overstay" when he / she leaves for the first time - at least unless the child is older than early teens - because, obviously, the child does not have a Visa.

Patrick

Thats actually not exactly the case. Even older kids (under the age of 14 or 7 depending on the source - one is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/visa-overstay-thailand.html ), do not get charged when leaving Thailand, and this is not limited to children born in Thailand. And i still don't know if it's official or unofficial rules but it certainly is the practice, I personally know a number of parents who live and work here legally (it must be hundreds of families in all of the country) yet didn't bother with getting visas for young kids as this was never a problem - Immigration at the airports doesn't even blink an eye when they see a chid on overstay, they do however stamp the overstay in the passport. Even with that stamp though, it's was never a problem to come back - I know this from my own and other parents experience.

Now I don't want to argue if this is responsible or not, or if me and many other parents like me should have gotten visas for kids or not. All I want to know is will the new rule affect my child and if so, is there some grace period, when I can actually get my child proper paper work to avoid the ban. Before it wasn't necessary (though still might have been recommended) to go through the trouble of getting a visa for the kids. Is it now?

Edited July 7, 2014 by manonthemon

[Soutpeel]

And maybe they will my dear Timwin, only time will tell, but at the moment they appear to be targeting people we who are abusing the current systems in place, eg overstay, illegal working and people who are not on the correct visas for their intended purpose in country

For me personally, if they made things so restrictive that I couldn't remain in Thailand, I would just go home, as I haven't thrown my lot in here, so for me not such a big deal

Yeah, that is why you have been posting 6-10 comments per day for years now. Mostly commenting about Thai visa issues.

You are not committed one bit to Thailand, a full suitcase under the bed, ready to go at any minute...yeah, sure pal!

Yes and what's your point ? I lived and worked in Thailand (legally, I might add) for the last 14 years so your saying I have no right to post ?

But nice to see your consistent when you got nothing intelligent to say, which isn't often, you resort to the old gambit of attacking the number posts someone makes

I am not committed to any country, my dear boy, including my own "countries" the only commitment I have is looking after myself and my family

As to a suit case full of money under the bed ?.....don't need to, I hold nothing in Thailand that I wouldn't be prepared to walk away from anyway, a house and a couple if cars that's all..

Edited July 7, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Arkady]

I mean really what is gained for all the headaches of these visa's??,,

You might say look at all the revenue that is gained by the country. Well after all the staff and buildings and tonnes of wasted paper how much money do they make? These long termers will only spend what money they have in the community paying taxes & Vat, it all goes back to the country eventually. The visa restrictions just do exactly that put people off from coming or take away part of their spending budget that would have gone back into the system.

So what about the undesirables . Well from what I see the real undesirables will be picked up and arrested sooner or later ( If they don’t, well maybe they weren’t undesirables in the first place) If the system wasn’t so corrupt they would be booted out at that point. However I see plenty of undesirables, thugs criminal gangs , real estate frauds, con men allowed to continue there existence here because they pay of the right people and are allowed to stay despite numerous arrests .

So all the visa thing is for as far as I can see is to annoy everybody and send a message that Thailand is for Thais and that you might be permitted to stay for now, but we can change the law tomorrow and get rid of you just like that like that then we’ll have all your nice Villas and cars and we who wield the power will grow richer from your losses and laugh at the dumb farang who thought he was above us just because he thought he had more money.( then the statement would be followed by manic laughter)

Visas are an annoying reality in countries where we have no permanent right of abode and all countries, including our farang home countries, require them. Thailand has a lot of bureaucratic paperwork and rather pointless 90 day reporting rules but still maintains very low financial hurdles for those who want to stay long-term on retirement and marriage extensions, compared to other countries. In past when the retirement extension financial hurdle was revised up to B800,000 after many years at B200,000, those who had had continuous retirement extensions for 5 years were grandfathered in at B200,000 and still are today. It is now around 20 years since these financial hurdles were adjusted and it is very likely they will be again soon, since B800,000 or B400,000 is undeniably not worth what it was in 2004. However, I would think the same sort of indefinite grandfathering would again be offered.

I don't believe there is an intent to confiscate villas and cars bought with farang money and the villas are bound to be in Thai names anyway and therefore are not farangs' property to be confiscated. I am sure that these long-term stayers will continue to be welcome and that any new financial hurdles won't apply to those who have legally been here a long time on continuous retirement or marriage extensions. The immigration and property ownership laws are well known and anyone planning to move to Thailand should take them into account before making the move.

[Timwin]

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country.

I think the regime is trying to copy the Singaporean strict police state model with harsh laws but I doubt it would work in Thailand. Too many people, too many different "tribes".

[Pattaya46]

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

I am sure it will not be the case.

This document looks like just a draft or some working notes.

I can't see this kind of ban for being late just a few days or week.

Should have be better to wait for the official rules before commenting on them...

[joebrown]

I have no wish to condone overstaying, but I think in the interests of fairness there should be an attempt to create some form of 'amnesty' for say, 6 months during which surrendering overstayers could be fined on a sliding scale, depending on the time span of the 'crime'. Didn't the NCPO recently allow an amnesty for the surrender of firearms. It all depends on what the priorities of the NCPO are?

[Pattszero]

This, tightening of the 30 exemption rules and who knows what more is coming.. the condo market at tourist destinations will take a hit.

Which would show the cyclical nature of these things when rules are later relaxed

Just takes the influential owners/shareholders of various property developers like land and houses when their businesses take a hit to see pressure later applied to ease the rules a bit

Junta are not here for the long term, this is one of their experiments. Sooner or later if or when it fails to have a beneficial effect economically then it will be binned further down the road. Just a question of time. Money talks

The junta will not release their grip on law and order issues when democracy is returned.

Expect to see permanent control of that sphere transferred to military supervision.

[Pattszero]

I have no wish to condone overstaying, but I think in the interests of fairness there should be an attempt to create some form of 'amnesty' for say, 6 months during which surrendering overstayers could be fined on a sliding scale, depending on the time span of the 'crime'. Didn't the NCPO recently allow an amnesty for the surrender of firearms. It all depends on what the priorities of the NCPO are?

Regard today as the start of the amnesty - get out of the county before it's officially announced and enforced.

[mrtoad]

May be some of these overstayers got ripped off of all they had and cannot even afford to go and get a visa. Thought of that?

Ignorance and stupidity are no defence in a court of law.